justinmadison
Semi-Pro
Post the link to his/her USTA results page
Poll: Should a former ATP player self rate @ 4.5 ever?
- Thread starter Nexus
- Start date
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
If you believe this site, there are plenty of former ATP players sandbagging as 4.0s at Texas and Southern sectionals.
I don't think Hunter Emmott ever played pro, but close.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
4.5 is recreational tennis. Good recreational tennis, but recreational nonetheless. If you have ever been paid to play tennis or from winning tournaments, you have no business playing 4.5, no matter how old you are.
Low level ATP or Futures player can play 4.5 if they are old- maybe 55 or over. see NTRP guidelines below that give suggested NTRP levels for ex-pros and college players. according to the guideline a 32 year former futures player should be a 5.5 which should about right.
https://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/ExperiencedGuidelines_02142011_V2pdf.pdf
https://assets.usta.com/assets/1/15/ExperiencedGuidelines_02142011_V2pdf.pdf
simply not true. I think low level pros ranked outside top 500 who are 55 or older can play 4.5. Certainly, by 60 or 65 years old, 4.5 level is appropriate. You lose speed, flexibility, strength, eye sight and about everything else as you age.
OrangePower
Legend
Im not sure... i have several 4.5 friends who are mid to late 50's and never even played college tennis let alone pros. I'll be that age myself in less than a decade and will likely still be a 4.5, and i played hs tennis but then had 20 years away from the game. So i think players who played high level college or pro are just in a different class.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Why would a former ATP player be playing USTA rec league tennis anyway? Lol
GrassCourtFan
Legend
A coach I know is a former pro (was in the top 300), he's in his late 50s or early 60s, around there somewhere. He's clearly a 4.5. He doesn't play USTA leagues but does play with a rec group of 4.0s/4.5s.
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J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Gigi Fernandez isn't exactly setting the world on fire in 40+ 4.5+...
J
J
Ok, you are offering an opinion but I am telling you facts. I have seen several ex-D1 level guys over 55 playing in 4.5 level. This isn't my opinion. One of the guys was on my team and I've played against other guys. I played a S American guy in his 60s who played the pro qualifiers when he was young. In fact, we had 2 ex-D1 players in the 30s on our 4.5 team many years ago. it isn't uncommon.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Got to manage that rating bro.
OrangePower
Legend
I'm not disputing that it happens; I'm disputing that it's appropriate.
For example, D1 players in their 30's have no business playing 4.5, although I have seen this also.
In general I agree that ex-D1 in their 30's shouldn't play 4.5. I think there could be exceptions for maybe the bottom of the D1 players. Some guys who played at the bottom of a weaker D1 team could play 4.5 especially in their late 30's. Certainly, the better D1 players would dominate 4.5 in their 30's.
"D1" encompasses a wide range of skills. There was an active D1 player in our 4.0 league a couple years ago who was not misrated. He just played for a bad D1 team (and eventually fell out of their lineup when they got better recruiting). There is a D1 school near me in NJ that has 4.5 players at best at the top of their lineup down to 4.0 or even 3.5 caliber players lower in the lineup. They routinely lose to the D3 school next door to them. I get what you're saying, just be careful about blanket statements because there are always exceptions.
OrangePower
Legend
Fair enough, I guess there are always exceptions. When I think D1 I'm thinking of a certain caliber, conveying access to coaching, training, and court time that is a multiple of what most rec players would ever have had. But yes there are D1 programs that are D1 in name only.
Yeah, the OP was about guys with ATP points in the 1100 ranking range. There is not a wide range of skills for that. There are not weak teams of ATP 1100 ranked players and strong teams of ATP 1100 ranked players. You HAVE to have a certain skill level to win enough points to attain a certain ranking, so it's easier to make blanket statements about those players than people who play for a team that might take just anyone if they are bad enough.
time_fly
Hall of Fame
Someone told me yesterday that Mary Jo Fernandez played some USTA league tennis when she was the director of tennis at Chelsea Piers in Stamford, CT near ESPN. Supposedly some of our 4.5 ladies had to play against her. Seems a bit far fetched ... anyone else hear anything about this?
Brokenstrings
Rookie
Pretty sure I know who the OP is referring to here. Watched him play 8.5 combo with a 4.0 that should be a 4.5. They steamrolled everyone. Did he get bumped this year?
It was Gigi Fernandez, not Mary Jo, and she is a 5.0 rated "plus" player on their 40 & Over 4.5+ team.
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
If college players can rate at 3.5 (as in that other thread), I suppose pros can rate at 4.5. Why not?
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Tennis Hall of Famer, 17 time major champion, 69 career WTA Tour titles, ranked #1 on WTA Tour in doubles. Yes these are all the prerequisites for a 5.0 rating. This is where the USTA loses all credibility. Holy Jesus!! What a joke.
Wonder if they asked about that on the self rate questions? Back when I self rated, it did not ask about Hall of Fame or grand slam titles.
J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Tennis Hall of Famer, 17 time major champion, 69 career WTA Tour titles, ranked #1 on WTA Tour in doubles. Yes these are all the prerequisites for a 5.0 rating
She isn't exactly wrecking the field.
J
Moveforwardalways
Hall of Fame
Sandbagger. She obvioulsy wants that 4.5+ sectionals title way more than she ever wanted Rolland Garros.
dominikk1985
Legend
to be fair if I'm a 4.5 playing him I'm gladly taking the double bagle and enjoy that I played such a good Player in my lifetime. still makes no sense on his part.
. still makes no sense on his part.It doesn't really appear that way. That team has never even made the playoffs. It appears that she just wants to help the club she works for.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Shirley your partner appreciates that dbl too. Lucky to played with a FO and US Open dbls winner. A privilegeto be fair if I'm a 4.5 playing him I'm gladly taking the double bagle and enjoy that I played such a good Player in my lifetime
Tennisplyr
Rookie
There's a guy in our community who's in his 70s that played in the majors back in the day and now plays with 4.0-4.5 players....we all get old!
5sets
Hall of Fame
Lmfao.
Just looked up Gigi on Tennislink. Unfreakingbelievable.
Why would she even want to play rec tennis, ROFL
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It looks like it's just to help out the club she works for. Their team doesn't appear to be particularly successful overall, so it's not like she's sandbagging to chase national championships or anything.
5sets
Hall of Fame
Not arguing that.
But that'd be like me or you showing up for a league match and playing Bob Bryan.
Starstruck for sure.
Gigi has several Grand Slam doubles titles as well as Singles Semis appearances in Majors.
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OrangePower
Legend
Haha... I showed up for a league match recently and played a guy who ten years ago had a ATP dubs ranking of around 100. Not exactly Bob Bryan, but still way above my pay grade.
Anyway he's the club pro and captains all their teams. He rarely plays himself and clearly isn't in it for the wins. It was obvious that he wasn't really trying against us which is the only reason we were able to keep the score somewhat respectable.
Well, it would be like playing Bob Bryan in 20 years after he retired and stopped training (and delivered 2 kids as well, I suppose...), so I guess it would be more like playing Peter Fleming or Murphy Jensen now, but regardless, I'd be honored to share the court with any one of those guys.
5sets
Hall of Fame
Old or not I don't see how any WTA or ATP former 7.0 player can self rate at 5.0.
Obviously they are just playing for fun or to help out a club team or what not, but I'm sure Gigi could play 5.0 tennis with her eyes closed.
Something seriouly faulty with the Usta rating system.
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J011yroger
Talk Tennis Guru
Was Murphy the crappy one or Luke.
I'm famous on the internet, I'll whip his ass.
That goes for Gigi too.
J
LOL. Luke was the better one.
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
Dual Hand Luke??? Make Bob play right-handed. And no twin magic!
Liam Grennon
Professional
You can't really just say yes or no as if he was injured and that made him be at a 4.5 level
Ronaldo
Bionic Poster
OrangePower
Legend
Agree that it makes no sense, but as a middle of the road 4.5 it was kinda fun for me to play against someone of that caliber. This was a 9.5 combo match. I've played against many 5.0s but this guy was something else.
Rattler
Hall of Fame
Kind of off topic...but at the time Stefan Hudet was the #1 men’s wheelchair player in the world..he was playing in a tourney in Baton Rouge..he is an amputee and he wore his prosthetic (meaning he played able-bodied)...his opponnent was a solid Southern 4.5 on clay...and took him out 1,1.
jm1980
Talk Tennis Guru
According to the USTA guidelines:
"The very best world-class players in wheelchairs have an NTRP rating in the low 4.5s."
McLovin
Legend
lol. We had Murphy at our club a few years ago. He was coaching the Castles and came out for a day with the kids. I was called in to help feed some balls.
At the end of the session he held a contest to see who could return his serve. If you got it back, you stayed. If not, you're out. For fun I joined in, and when it came my turn, he hit a decent 3/4 pace serve up the T (deuce court), and I ripped a backhand back (its my best shot).
My next time around he asked where I wanted it. I said 'same place as last time, please'. He hit a bigger serve...maybe 120. I ripped that one back as well...and he was all over the net, volleyed it deep into the backhand corner, and I flipped up a weak lob that I think he had to bend down to hit. I never had a chance.
On a side note...the guy is huge! His bio says 6' 4', but it more like 6' 6'. And he's a big guy as well.
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