[POLL] Sinner, which player from the past or present does it remind you of?
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Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Stop acting like this is about morals, man.
We get it, you think he is a doper. Move on, it is getting redundant and is irrelevant unless he actually gets banned.
The odd appeal of Berdych is just how cleanly he could hit the ball. He was a great ball striker. But, it wasn't enough.
Sinner is what any Berdych fan hoped Berdych could be. If you could combine Berdych's ball striking with the movement and defense of Djoker--you get Sinner.
I'd also say Sinner's ball striking is a level or two abouve Berdych. So if you are going to call Sinner Berdych 2.0, it really should be 10.0.
HIs ability to control the baseline from both sides has elemenets of Agassi. But Sinner takes over with serve and movement. Maybe even return.
His percision from the baseline, compared with his movement and ability to hit offense from defensive positions and making returns is most like Djoker.
I think Sinner takes it a level higher in that Djoker had this ability to hit good enough balls from all over the court and not take unecessary risk.
Seems Sinner is able to do the same thing but hit it harder and still doesn't seem to be upping the risk.
Sinner is what any Berdych fan hoped Berdych could be. If you could combine Berdych's ball striking with the movement and defense of Djoker--you get Sinner.
I'd also say Sinner's ball striking is a level or two abouve Berdych. So if you are going to call Sinner Berdych 2.0, it really should be 10.0.
HIs ability to control the baseline from both sides has elemenets of Agassi. But Sinner takes over with serve and movement. Maybe even return.
His percision from the baseline, compared with his movement and ability to hit offense from defensive positions and making returns is most like Djoker.
I think Sinner takes it a level higher in that Djoker had this ability to hit good enough balls from all over the court and not take unecessary risk.
Seems Sinner is able to do the same thing but hit it harder and still doesn't seem to be upping the risk.
nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Yeah keep £@₱₱!ng like that
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Its not about morals, its about fair competition.
And its not about what I think he is, its about facts. Its about the 2 failed doping tests.
Stop being politically correct and appeasing to both parties. If someone says its a night & the other one says its day; your job is to go outside and check for yourself before stating the truth; not parroting what both are saying and present them as 'opinions'.
dking68
Legend
Sinner has won his last 3 tournaments in straight sets and seems to be improving, worried still?
NoleFam
Bionic Poster
Lehecka reminds me of Berdych, not so much Sinner. Besides being two handed baseliners, they're not too similar in their approach to the game. Sinner is faster and can play defense pretty well. If you got Berdych on defense, you could control him after that but Sinner has the ability to switch that defense back to offense, which is what the best baseliners do and what Djokovic and Nadal perfected. Alcaraz also does this very well.
Sinner modeled his game after Djokovic but he doesn't remind me that much of him either because Djokovic is even more athletic than him, his strokes are more unique and refined looking, and his movement is more fluid. He also plays with more variation and variety. (Slices, can create more or less spin, will play more angular on his forehand if needed, etc.) Sinner's spin mainly stays the same across a match. I guess Sinner's game is closer to Djokovic's than Berdych but he doesn't look like either on court to me. Maybe a cross between different players.
Sinner modeled his game after Djokovic but he doesn't remind me that much of him either because Djokovic is even more athletic than him, his strokes are more unique and refined looking, and his movement is more fluid. He also plays with more variation and variety. (Slices, can create more or less spin, will play more angular on his forehand if needed, etc.) Sinner's spin mainly stays the same across a match. I guess Sinner's game is closer to Djokovic's than Berdych but he doesn't look like either on court to me. Maybe a cross between different players.
RaulRamirez
Legend
A few years back, when Sinner had lots of potential but not many achievements, I also thought Berdych (before hearing anyone else make the comparison, but of course I don't hear everyone) -- a much more athletic one. Easy power from both wings. Obviously, Sinner's career has already far surpassed Berd's, his movement is MUCH better and his mental game also appears to be much sharper. I'd say a cross between Berd and Novak.
Somewhat similarly, I also thought of Sabalenka as a Lindsay Davenport - but one who could move.
Somewhat similarly, I also thought of Sabalenka as a Lindsay Davenport - but one who could move.
Krish872007
Talk Tennis Guru
He should be regarded in his own unique form, as there aren't too many comparison points given the direction in which the game has gone in the last few years. If anything he has traits of Djokovic (movement off the baseline, switching from offense-defence and good mental strength - but obviously not on the same level), Berdych (easy power off both wings - but better in most aspects and slightly less fluid) and Federer (aggressive mindset, first strike - although obviously not as strong or varied). There are other valid points of comparison but picking any single player is pointless at this stage.
Completely pointless to compare with anyone from pre-2000. I don't have a good sense of how he really does at the net or with varied play patterns, vis-a-vis the older ATGs, since aggressive baseline tennis is virtually the only style present on the modern tour (aside from Alcaraz to an extent)
Completely pointless to compare with anyone from pre-2000. I don't have a good sense of how he really does at the net or with varied play patterns, vis-a-vis the older ATGs, since aggressive baseline tennis is virtually the only style present on the modern tour (aside from Alcaraz to an extent)
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
You think this is black and white. Life does not work like that. He failed 2 (really one considering his story he would have failed infinite amount of times until it was out of his system). Both were insignificant and not worthy of enhancing anything.
If you go outside and say its night, what if it is a solar eclipse? You would be wrong. What if you go outside and it is sunset and on the border? Some will say night and some will say day. What about at 7:30 am when it is still dark outside? Clearly that is not night. So stop with the morals. You just don't like Sinner.
You want fair competition? You got it all year after his supposed doping.
I don't appease anyone here, if I did, I would try and appease you, but you clearly have gone off the deep end with your Carlos fandom. Maybe I just look at things critically, and I have realistic opinion... He and his team made a mistake and were not careful and it caused a failed test that clearly was not for enhancing anything. He "doping" did not make him play better. Should he get banned under the current rules? Yes. However, do I think they should? No.
If that is playing both sides, then I hope more people look at things critically like myself. Unlike you, I am not a fan of either, so I am the only one not bias here, and the only one who wants to be entertained from tennis and not use it as my moral compass.
I also will go by whatever ruling there is, which as of now says he is cleared. If they suspend him, while I will not like it, I will 100% understand it.
chjtennis
G.O.A.T.
In terms of looks, he resembles Berdych most, but in terms of tennis ability, he reminds me of Djokovic most, obviously. Complete set of skills, cool head, good flexibility, tall and slim. It's also great he has a worthy rival. Otherwise,, he would've dominated the field completely. The best of Sincaraz rivalry will begin from 2025. Djokovic will still be there in 2025 as well.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
No clostebol and he'd have lost all these in straight sets.
Even with clostebol, he seems to lose against the only player that matters, even when that player isn't playing clutch game at all.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Yeah sure, divine forces came to his rescue & suddenly transformed him from a just-enough-good-for top15 player to the best player within a few months.
Sure, Clostebol and other potential PEDs had nothing to do with transformation of Sinner from the guy losing to journeymen everywhere, to the most consistent player on tour within months. (June to October 2023)
Surely, God himself decided to adopt him & made literally every shot of his bigger & every aspect of his game better than what it was a few months ago. (June to October 2023).
Being an apologetic for a certified doper & his cult is the last thing someone as good as yourself should be doing. But again, I've seen worse falls than this one.
FreeJannik
New User
I think active players get controlled 20-30 times during the season... so in this case everyone know that Sinner is innocent, in the sense he didn't voluntarily take a drug to enhance his performance (we are talking about quantities with no practical effect), but it may be technically guilty anyway because he didn't control every aspect of his team behaviour, including what they do when they are in their private room. Wich is actually what WADA contest: "we know that the contamination is incidental but you are guilty anyway".
In the end i think the voluntariness of an act is difficult to prove, so the law is written in a way to not allow any way to escape... even if you are innocent.
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Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Man, you really just jumped ships from rafa to Carlos the shepherd in a blink of an eye. Chose the wrong guy.
I guess Carlos got off the PEDs now since he is losing to journeyman and mugs all over the place. But yeah clostebol is why sinner dominated all year lol. Either learn science or tennis cause both will tell you the reason why sinner dominated is purely because he is the best on tour. Your boy is third best.
Born_to_slice
Legend
Petr Korda, just without any style points.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Opposing Sinner's wrongdoing ≠ being a die hard Alcaraz fan.
I like the tiny Spaniard, no two ways about it. But for him to replace Rafa for me is impossible. Rafa is an emotion connected to me since I was like 9 yo.
Carlos has been losing to journeymen and players against whom he should win, since his breakthrough year, pal. Its not new to him. The lack of tennis IQ at times, questionable shot selections & strategies etc have harmed him a lot.
Talking about Sinner's dominance, no way its purely due to him being too good naturally. Those kinds of transformations don't happen overnight like that, and he also got caught red handed. Stop defending him.
dking68
Legend
8 titles pal
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Clostebol juicing & backdoor deal with establishment to save his doper @$$, pal.
#taintedForever
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Instead of continuing to make inferences about the reasons why Sinner completed this monstrous 2024, you would do better to check all the times in which your Nadal has been linked to possible practices of doping substances, within a putrid sporting movement like that Spanish between the 2000s and 2010s.
Does the name Fuentes mean anything to you?
Same doctor Fuentes who has said several times that if he could talk about decades of great Spanish sporting achievements they would be razed to the ground instantly.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Allegations don't mean a thing, pal. Show me the evidence.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
The hilarious thing is that that's what you're doing in regards to the Sinner case, i.e. accusations for their own sake.
Prove to me that those positivities in which an infinitesimal percentage of Clostebol was found in the urine are due to a conscious use of doping substances to improve performance, and not due to accidental contamination.
I repeat, an independent court has completely exonerated the Italian tennis player from the possibility that he tried to use illicit practices to improve performance, and Wada itself did the same thing with its appeal, where through a press release it held to clarify that he is not asking to cancel the results obtained after the 2 positive tests, and has presented a request for disqualification ranging from 1 to 2 years for possible objective liability, ergo, he should have better controlled what was happening within his own team staff.
If Wada, an organization that has no interest in covering up any wrongdoings, asks for 1/2 years of disqualification instead of 4 years as per protocol for those who consciously use illicit substances, and if at the same time it does not ask to annul the results obtained following the positive tests, here too as per the protocol for those who use illicit substances, it is clear that he is not making any accusations of intentional doping.
When you say that this sudden 2024 explosion of Sinner smells like a scam by connecting it to the two positivities, here too you are completely in bad faith.
Since he was a boy, Sinner has been considered one of the most promising emerging talents on the entire circuit.
He was one of the earliest in history to win tournaments in the challenger, 250 and 500 category, to compete in a 1000 category final, and to enter the top 10.
His escalation from 2019 to 2023 has been constant, just look at his single season win percentage rising year after year.
In general, this escalation from 2019 to 2024 follows, data in hand, that which Federer had between 1999 and 2004, with exactly 20 years of difference between the two (1981 and 2001).
If we wanted to make conspiracy theories an end in itself, we could say that it was also very suspicious to see Nadal during the course of his career, taking long breaks justified by having to cure himself of various physical problems, and then returning to dominate as if nothing had happened.
You can't imagine how many times I've heard the definition of Dopal given to the Majorcan tennis player.
So it's hilarious that certain accusations against Sinner are made by Nadal fans.
The world is going backwards.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
No, two failed doping tests and the suspicious cover-up.
Winner Sinner
Hall of Fame
Evidently you have never heard of possible contamination.
I see that you have completely ignored the various points listed in the previous comment, a classic attitude of someone who doesn't know how to respond.
Ok, you are free to think that Sinner's 2 positive tests occurred out of a clear desire to improve his performances, therefore accusing him of having cover that defends him from more severe sanctions with the history of accidental contamination (but if he had his back covered I would I wonder why the 2 positive findings, the mysteries of the conspiracy, came to light from above).
At the same time anyone can be free to think that Nadal had the cover of the Spanish anti-doping system famous for being very condescending towards his sporting assets.
Moreover, the Operacion Puertes, closely connected to the Spanish doctor Fuentes with operational headquarters in Madrid, only coincidentally involved athletes from countries neighboring Spain, while always coincidentally it saw little Spanish athletes involved.
Just as it must have been only a coincidence that coinciding with that scandal, Spain became an unstoppable sporting power, dominating sports such as football, basketball, tennis and cycling with its athletes.
Paying with the same coin, no body (such as Wada) and no court has ever accused Sinner of knowingly using doping substances to improve performance. So since you care so much about the evidence in defense of the many accusations made against Nadal (even by French politicians), you too can demonstrate with certain evidence that Sinner's 2 positive tests are due to the conscious use of doping substances to improve his performance. performance, and not caused by accidental contamination. Just as he brings evidence that Sinner has his back covered. Until you bring this evidence yours will only be accusations for their own sake.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Pal?
I'll defend him against the mobs of sheep cause he doesn't deserve this hate for a simple mistake. It's mob mentality cause you like the shorter one. I won't stoop to that level, but for Carlos the shepherd fans, I guess they are used to it... You know... Cause he is 172cm
Rovesciarete
Hall of Fame
Looking again at the stats of Berdych prime Tomas and very young Sinner are not too dissimilar. Apart from the physical similarities and the big hitting that might have fooled some people. Comparing the best years of a former pro to the beginnings of a new prospect while not taking into account growth potential seems to be a common logic error and not only here.
25-30 old Tomas was stronger than 19-21 old Sinner when using the most basic point win% stats but not that much despite the very late growth spurt of the latter. Age-wise Djokovic's numbers were a much better fit.
Lots of great points in this thread in any case, especially regarding Tomas from @Sport, @Keizer, @NoleFam, @Krish872007 and obviously about Sinner from @Winner Sinner, @nolefam_2024 among others.
Berdych and Lehecka seem quite similar stylistically but Tomas improved faster after twenty. Injuries didn't help Jiri.
25-30 old Tomas was stronger than 19-21 old Sinner when using the most basic point win% stats but not that much despite the very late growth spurt of the latter. Age-wise Djokovic's numbers were a much better fit.
Lots of great points in this thread in any case, especially regarding Tomas from @Sport, @Keizer, @NoleFam, @Krish872007 and obviously about Sinner from @Winner Sinner, @nolefam_2024 among others.
Berdych and Lehecka seem quite similar stylistically but Tomas improved faster after twenty. Injuries didn't help Jiri.
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nolefam_2024
Bionic Poster
Which members chose berdych? Blind following blind?
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Pal?
I'll defend him against the mobs of sheep cause he doesn't deserve this hate for a simple mistake. It's mob mentality cause you like the shorter one. I won't stoop to that level, but for Carlos the shepherd fans, I guess they are used to it... You know... Cause he is 172cm
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
If Carlos the shepherd ever gets past 6 feet I will question him as a Doper. He best stay short for his own good lol
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
What's wrong with sticking to metrics? You made me use my brain for calculating the centimetres.
I don't think humans grow after the age of 20.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
6 feet is a good standard or 183cm is close to it I think.
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
Well, 1 feet = 12 inches
1 inch = 2,54 cms
So 6 feets= 6×12×2,54 = 182,88 cms
But to do all that is cumbersome, so I prefer sticking to metrics.
Lleytonstation
Talk Tennis Guru
Agreed. 172 cm it is.
optic yellow
Legend
Head racquet + boring style = Novak
Rafa4LifeEver
G.O.A.T.
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