Polling Peakovic

Do you think Djokovic makes the top 3 in OE by peak level at any of the six biggest events bar AO?

  • Yes, I do

    Votes: 27 57.4%
  • No, I don't

    Votes: 11 23.4%
  • Can't decide

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Don't care

    Votes: 8 17.0%

  • Total voters
    47
  • Poll closed .

Sunny014

Legend
It’s hard to speculate on who would win between Peak Novak and Peak Fed, but I doubt the mental fragility would be much different.

Mental stuffs and such stuffs only matter when the gap is 51-49 in ability or 50-50

In this case Federer-Novak is like 65-35

Look at this video from 7:00 when both of them came to net

Djokovic just surrendered to Federer because he understood that Fed is like lightning

 
Novak is still behind at Wimbledon and US Open. Novaks Wimbledon record is also heavily inflated considering the only competition he has had is Federer who was way past his best in every final they have met yet still pushed “Peak” Djokovic to his limits in 2 matches ( further proving Federer in his old age is still as good as Novak is at his apparent best)
His Wimbledon record is also Inflated due to Murray handily humiliating him at every grass match they have ever played including olympics and Wimbledon final. Fed has more WTF, more constant weeks at No1 , more slam finals in a row. The list is endless
Novak has more criteria out of slams in his favour. I agree he needs another slam though. Fed still just ahead. However, if they all on 20 then Novak is on top for me. If he gets ahead then it’s over unless Fed or Rafa win big again.

Djoko is best placed to take over. Fed is on his last legs. Unless something crazy happens the inevitable will happen.
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
I believe it is already the real truth, he has the most varied resume out of the 3 and has won everything there is to win at least twice. If he becomes GOAT to the public then it’s deserved.

Of course you believe it, but is that so?

A player whose peak isn't top 3, perhaps top 5, outside of a specific condition type wouldn't be the best, ho.
 

Sunny014

Legend
At his peak nobody could beat Fed at the net in a one on one fight, the reflexes of peak Fed were supernatural.

Even Sampras might have lost to Fed
 
Novak has more criteria out of slams in his favour. I agree he needs another slam though. Fed still just ahead. However, if they all on 20 then Novak is on top for me. If he gets ahead then it’s over unless Fed or Rafa win big again.

Djoko is best placed to take over. Fed is on his last legs. Unless something crazy happens the inevitable will happen.
I’ve already said in many threads if Novak gets #20 it’s a done deal, I’ll still always prefer Roger but that’s just because I love the guys game.
 
T

TheNachoMan

Guest
Of course you believe it, but is that so?

A player whose peak isn't top 3, perhaps top 5, outside of a specific condition type wouldn't be the best, ho.
”peak“ is subjective. You have players like Safin, Wawrinka and Soderling who have amazing peaks but are nowhere near ATGs. It’s not a accurate measurement
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
”peak“ is subjective. You have players like Safin, Wawrinka and Soderling who have amazing peaks but are nowhere near ATGs. It’s not a accurate measurement

ATG players have often had multiple runs close to peak though. When your top 5 performances at a venue probably aren't as good as another's top 5, that tells us.
 
T

TheNachoMan

Guest
ATG players have often had multiple runs close to peak though. When your top 5 performances at a venue probably aren't as good as another's top 5, that tells us.
It’s about consistency more than peak. Murray is a great example of that. No one fawns over “peakray” but he was consistent for years.
 
On what basis do you feel Sampras's peak at the USO is greater than Federer's ?

Did Sampras win 4-5 times non stop?

He hasnt even won 3 times on trot, so much for being at peak

Fed hasn't even won a USO title in 13 years. Sampras went out beating his greatest rival at the USO before he retired (took out Peak Agassi ( who beat Fed), Defending Champ Safin and USO champ Rafter in 2001 back to back to back before losing to peaking Hewitt in the finals) . Subsequently Fed at his peak 2005 struggled with far inferior 35 year old AGassi at the USO.

Sampras>>>Fed at the USO
 
So thats your best answer to a realtime video ?

overall head to head ?

Fed led Djokovic in H2H until mid 2016 and you post that to prove what ? Peak vs Peak ?
Djokovic owns Federer. Fed is a weak era champion. As soon as Djokovic improved his game, went gluten free on diet and improved physically and mentally he owned Fed overall.
 

Sunny014

Legend
In that video at 7:00 why did Djokovic surrender to Federer at the net?

Was the reflexes of a 28 year old man at the net too much for a 22 year old ?
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
It’s about consistency more than peak. Murray is a great example of that. No one fawns over “peakray” but he was consistent for years.

There are many ATG players with at least five quality runs at specific slams. This is a blend of consistency and peak. If you only play amazing once you're losing out to someone who played a bit less amazing at his best but closer to it in other top runs; if both of them play great in many runs, peak remains significant.
 

The Blond Blur

G.O.A.T.
This is gonna be tough since I've only watched live tennis from 1996-meow. But I'll give it a shot.

AO: Joker, Agassi, Ol' Rog (HM Safin) Probably the toughest for me to gauge, this can be moved around and be "right" imo.
RG: RAFA, Borg, Kuerten (HM Lendl)
WB: PETE, JMac, Ol'Rog (HM Borg)
USO: Lendl, JMac, Connors (HM Ol' Rog)
YEC: PETE, Becker, JMac (HM Lendl)
Olympics: RAFA, Agassi, Kafelnikov (HM MurrayGOAT)

The mob can flog me now.
 

Sunny014

Legend
Fed hasn't even won a USO title in 13 years. Sampras went out beating his greatest rival at the USO before he retired (took out Peak Agassi ( who beat Fed), Defending Champ Safin and USO champ Rafter in 2001 back to back to back before losing to peaking Hewitt in the finals) . Subsequently Fed at his peak 2005 struggled with far inferior 35 year old AGassi at the USO.

Sampras>>>Fed at the USO

Federer could have won many more USO from 2010 if they had not made too bouncy to suit Nadal's game.

So if I assume that higher bounce favors Nadal from 2010 and lowers Federer there then Sampras would also be pwned there....
 

AnOctorokForDinner

Talk Tennis Guru
This is gonna be tough since I've only watched live tennis from 1996-meow. But I'll give it a shot.

AO: Joker, Agassi, Ol' Rog (HM Safin) Probably the toughest for me to gauge, this can be moved around and be "right" imo.
RG: RAFA, Borg, Kuerten (HM Lendl)
WB: PETE, JMac, Ol'Rog (HM Borg)
USO: Lendl, JMac, Connors (HM Ol' Rog)
YEC: PETE, Becker, JMac (HM Lendl)
Olympics: RAFA, Agassi, Kafelnikov (HM MurrayGOAT)

The mob can flog me now.

At least you respect PETE properly.
 

daggerman

Hall of Fame
From what I have seen, absolute peak is something useless. You can argue that Wawrinka hit higher clay peak than what Djokovic ever hope to hit. Or Soderling hit higher levels than Federer ever did.

Correct. If you take the court one day, bash everything as hard as you can while aiming as close to the lines as possible, and everything lands in, then you've peaked very high. However, it doesn't really say much about how good of a tennis player you are.
 
Federer could have won many more USO from 2010 if they had not made to bouncy to suit Nadal's game.

So if I assume that higher bounce favors Nadal from 2010 and lowers Federer there then Sampras would also be pwned there....
Could could could

IF IF IF

The fact is he is a weak era champion.
 
To be fair to Djoker though, so what if he doesn't have the highest peak. He has the sustained dominance/winning percentage across all surfaces which makes him GOAT. Which is what its all about at the end of the day.

At the end of the day, Djokovic got the last laugh. His peak may not be the highest, but his career sure is
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
The less you give to the opponent (whether direct misses or opportunities to attack), the better you are playing - hasn't it always been like that? It seems obvious a hypothetical perfect level would entail blasting balls on the line / angle all match long without errors.
Agreed - it’s just hard to make comparisons because I believe Djokovic has the widest return radius and defensive coverage ever. I.e. if you hit 50 balls to Borg or Agassi or Sampras’ FH side and 50 to Djokovic’s FH side he would get the most back and commit the least errors. But when you try to take into account athleticism and technological differences, as well as the fact that Djokovic plays a more defensive, and thus less “dominant” playstyle due to the surface conditions he lived in… i.e. Pete’s serve+volley was nearly unstoppable when they landed but watching his BH sometimes makes me cringe, and would be heavily exploited by a player like Djokovic on a baseline heavy game like the one he played at USO 2011/15. Well, it confounds things.

I haven’t seen anywhere near enough Mac/Borg/Pancho highlights to accurately judge them. All I can say is peak Djokovic would be very competitive with any player who ever lived, as would Peak Federer or Nadal. I don’t think he has the same “truly unbeatable” moments as other players outside the AO but I also feel that none of Pete/Mac/Borg/Lendl would be able to do better on his surfaces or in his era, and would be forced to approach the game far differently.
 

Sunny014

Legend
Agreed - it’s just hard to make comparisons because I believe Djokovic has the widest return radius and defensive coverage ever. I.e. if you hit 50 balls to Borg or Agassi or Sampras’ FH side and 50 to Djokovic’s FH side he would get the most back and commit the least errors. But when you try to take into account athleticism and technological differences, as well as the fact that Djokovic plays a more defensive, and thus less “dominant” playstyle due to the surface conditions he lived in… i.e. Pete’s serve+volley was nearly unstoppable when they landed but watching his BH sometimes makes me cringe, and would be heavily exploited by a player like Djokovic on a baseline heavy game like the one he played at USO 2011/15. Well, it confounds things.

I haven’t seen anywhere near enough Mac/Borg/Pancho highlights to accurately judge them. All I can say is peak Djokovic would be very competitive with any player who ever lived, as would Peak Federer or Nadal. I don’t think he has the same “truly unbeatable” moments as other players outside the AO but I also feel that none of Pete/Mac/Borg/Lendl would be able to do better on his surfaces or in his era, and would be forced to approach the game far differently.

If Peter or Borg or Mac were to compete with Djokovic then they are to be born in 1987, then they would be more athletic and have similar radius like him. Plus Sampras was also 1.85 cms like Federer, not a short man, plus give him a poly in his hands and he too would have the weapons + athletism to counter Djokovic

This Djokovic fellow is highly overrated, anyone who loses to Stan in 3 different grand slams cannot be considered the GOAT, hehe
 
He can hire Djokovic and make him his servant, he is that rich.

Federer is richer than Djokovic + Nadal + Sampras + Borg + Laver combined.

Billionaire .... money speaks
I doubt Djokovic cares to be honest lmao. Djoko is very rich himself and actually earned more prize money than Fed as he’s won more since they bumped the money up for winning tournaments.
 

Sunny014

Legend
I doubt Djokovic cares to be honest lmao. Djoko is very rich himself and actually earned more prize money than Fed as he’s won more since they bumped the money up for winning tournaments.

Yes but what about endorsements?

Only the most popular guy on the planet gets the most endorsements and one doesn't become most popular without being the GOAT.

Even Mike Tyson considers Federer the GOAT, I am sure he knows what it means to fight and win, he has picked the right guy.

So Federer and his fans who made him such a big brand have seen peaks of Djokovic and peaks of Federer and still pay to watch Federer, that settles the debate.

cc @TMF
 
If Peter or Borg or Mac were to compete with Djokovic then they are to be born in 1987, then they would be more athletic and have similar radius like him. Plus Sampras was also 1.85 cms like Federer, not a short man, plus give him a poly in his hands and he too would have the weapons + athletism to counter Djokovic

This Djokovic fellow is highly overrated, anyone who loses to Stan in 3 different grand slams cannot be considered the GOAT, hehe
Says a Federer fan where Federer has a losing H2H to over 25 players. Djoko only has a losing H2H to 11 players. Plus only 2 of those players have a more than 1 H2H lead over djoko. Being krygios and satin.

That also shows us another reason who the more complete player is.
 

Sunny014

Legend
Says a Federer fan where Federer has a losing H2H to over 25 players. Djoko only has a losing H2H to 11 players. Plus only 2 of those players have a more than 1 H2H lead over djoko. Being krygios and satin.

That also shows us another reason who the more complete player is.

Open a poll on which player would have won more slams in diverse conditions in the 90s

Put Federer and Novak in the options, I am sure Fed will win.

Why? Because he is the complete player.

I am not denying that Djokovic is the best player in the last 10 years of homogenous courts.

Doesn't necessarily mean that he is the GOAT.
 

Sunny014

Legend
Jeff Bezos GOAT confirmed

Bezos is not a tennis player and neither did he make his money from Tennis.
Bezos never held the grand slam record for 11 years and was never the GOAT

So such a guy is not in conversation, let him win 20 slams and make a billion+ from tennis and then we shall add him too :p
 

Kralingen

Bionic Poster
If Peter or Borg or Mac were to compete with Djokovic then they are to be born in 1987, then they would be more athletic and have similar radius like him. Plus Sampras was also 1.85 cms like Federer, not a short man, plus give him a poly in his hands and he too would have the weapons + athletism to counter Djokovic
And I would love to see that. 1980 Wimby is still one of the most impressive matches I’ve seen for what both players were working with. Is it enough to confirm that a mythical Djokovic peak at Wimby would lose to those guys? For me it isn’t but if you are willing to take leaps of faith like that, I can respect it.
 
LOL djokovic is close to 6'3 and long and lean.
Great tennis players would adapt to whatever conditions were present at the time.
This is really a weird obsession.
The obsession and hate Djokovic is getting from some Fedal fans is insane. That french open win and double career slam really struck a cord haha.
 

Sunny014

Legend
LOL djokovic is close to 6'3 and long and lean.
Great tennis players would adapt to whatever conditions were present at the time.
This is really a weird obsession.

He is not 6'3

He is 6'2 only.

Sharapova is a bit taller than him, Murray is 6'3.

Fed, Sampras, Nadal are all 6'1

Height and reach does matter, I think Murray has the perfect height.
 

swordtennis

G.O.A.T.
The obsession and hate Djokovic is getting from some Fedal fans is insane. That french open win and double career slam really struck a cord haha.
Also the weak era started again.
Still remember the weak era ended soon after Djokovic was injured in 2016.
Scarecly a mention of it when fedal were racking em up.
Then starting around July 2018 or so it was back for some odd reason.
For the life of me never can figure out what triggers the "weak era".
wink wink;)
 

RS

Bionic Poster
Also the weak era started again.
Still remember the weak era ended soon after Djokovic was injured in 2016.
Scarecly a mention of it when fedal were racking em up.
Then starting around July 2018 or so it was back for some odd reason.
For the life of me never can figure out what triggers the "weak era".
wink wink;)
It was mentioned a lot.....
 
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