Poly, Multi/Syn Gut Hybrid

EasternRocks

EasternRocks

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I am hoping to try Luxilon ALU Power mains with some sort of cross that can soften up the string bed and give me more feel. I know that there will be less spin potential than full Lux or gut/poly because the snapback feature isn't going to be as good. However, I am still curious to see how a multi like NXT and a syn gut like Gosen OG Sheep Micro would play in different setups.

Can anyone comment on what would give me better spin potential between the 2 strings? In general, is it better to use a syn gut or a multi if you want to use a polyester main?
 
EasternRocks said:
I am hoping to try Luxilon ALU Power mains with some sort of cross that can soften up the string bed and give me more feel. I know that there will be less spin potential than full Lux or gut/poly because the snapback feature isn't going to be as good. However, I am still curious to see how a multi like NXT and a syn gut like Gosen OG Sheep Micro would play in different setups.

Can anyone comment on what would give me better spin potential between the 2 strings? In general, is it better to use a syn gut or a multi if you want to use a polyester main?
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From what I have read the syn gut because it doesn't notch or fray as easily. But I have read that Monogut ZX is the way to go. Not good tension retention according to the review though.
 
eaglesburg said:
From what I have read the syn gut because it doesn't notch or fray as easily. But I have read that Monogut ZX is the way to go. Not good tension retention according to the review though.
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Not interested in using Monogut ZX - So OG Sheep Micro would be a better bet than NXT?
 
Doubles said:
Using multi's like NXT or sensation control I feel like I get less spin with my natural swing than using syn gut in the crosses.
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Is that because the multi (NXT) is not as smooth as Syn Gut, therefore it's harder for snapback to occur? Multi's can get a little sticky if I'm not mistaken and can limit the Luxilon from moving freely.

Edit: I made an order out for Gosen OG Sheep Micro 16 in Natural and Wilson NXT 16. From what I have been gathering, the single core of the Syn Gut will allow for a little more action between the mains and crosses. Fraying is also avoided with Syn Gut.
 
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EasternRocks said:
Is that because the multi (NXT) is not as smooth as Syn Gut, therefore it's harder for snapback to occur? Multi's can get a little sticky if I'm not mistaken and can limit the Luxilon from moving freely.

Edit: I made an order out for Gosen OG Sheep Micro 16 in Natural and Wilson NXT 16. From what I have been gathering, the single core of the Syn Gut will allow for a little more action between the mains and crosses. Fraying is also avoided with Syn Gut.
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Syn gut and multi will get sticky. A great prepackaged option (if you wanna go the multi route) is Wilson Control Duo, and a great syn gut option, like you stated, is OGSM.
 
AHJS said:
Syn gut and multi will get sticky. A great prepackaged option (if you wanna go the multi route) is Wilson Control Duo, and a great syn gut option, like you stated, is OGSM.
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Well, it seems like OGSM and other syn guts have a lower friction # than multifilaments. Isn't it fair to say that syn guts get less sticky to the polyesters than the multis - thus, it doesn't limit the spin as much as multi's would?
 
EasternRocks said:
Well, it seems like OGSM and other syn guts have a lower friction # than multifilaments. Isn't it fair to say that syn guts get less sticky to the polyesters than the multis - thus, it doesn't limit the spin as much as multi's would?
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Probably, but slightly. That and durability are the better things about syn gut, but you won't get the same level of touch or feel or comfort. Its a trade off like all other things in the string world.
 
AHJS said:
Probably, but slightly. That and durability are the better things about syn gut, but you won't get the same level of touch or feel or comfort. Its a trade off like all other things in the string world.
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So there are advantages of using syn gut and multi in crosses with poly mains? Any idea on what is more common, the more suggested option?
 
EasternRocks said:
So there are advantages of using syn gut and multi in crosses with poly mains? Any idea on what is more common, the more suggested option?
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Yes. They each have their unique advantages and disadvantages. I think that they are pretty evenly common, with syn gut edging out multi a tad maybe. On the tour, gut in the crosses is the most common of course.
 
AHJS said:
Yes. They each have their unique advantages and disadvantages. I think that they are pretty evenly common, with syn gut edging out multi a tad maybe. On the tour, gut in the crosses is the most common of course.
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Why is gut considered a waste when the tour uses them the most for crosses to poly mains?
 
EasternRocks said:
Why is gut considered a waste when the tour uses them the most for crosses to poly mains?
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Well they're sponsored and get that stuff for free or for a massive discount, so they use it. Its not a waste if money is no object as it will have the best playability, but for most of us, the cost of gut isn't worth the slight boost in playability when installed as a cross for poly.
 
AHJS said:
Well they're sponsored and get that stuff for free or for a massive discount, so they use it. Its not a waste if money is no object as it will have the best playability, but for most of us, the cost of gut isn't worth the slight boost in playability when installed as a cross for poly.
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Hm, yeah I would probably tend to agree. Apparently, poly/gut also has a seriously low COF, which results in low spin potential.

I'm curious - if you had to choose b/w NXT and OGSM which would you use to cross ALU Power?
 
EasternRocks said:
Hm, yeah I would probably tend to agree. Apparently, poly/gut also has a seriously low COF, which results in low spin potential.

I'm curious - if you had to choose b/w NXT and OGSM which would you use to cross ALU Power?
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I think a low COF results in high spin potential if I'm not mistaken. I would probably go for OGSM, because I do not like Wilson multis. But if I got to choose a multi, I would choose X-1 for the multi over any syn gut.
 
EasternRocks said:
Hm, yeah I would probably tend to agree. Apparently, poly/gut also has a seriously low COF, which results in low spin potential.

I'm curious - if you had to choose b/w NXT and OGSM which would you use to cross ALU Power?
Click to expand...

Did you mean high COF?
 
AHJS said:
I think a low COF results in high spin potential if I'm not mistaken. I would probably go for OGSM, because I do not like Wilson multis. But if I got to choose a multi, I would choose X-1 for the multi over any syn gut.
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X-1 has such a high COF on its own, there is no chance it would allow any snapback for poly mains. It would lock up the string bed so quickly. It's got one of the lowest COF's actually.
 
EasternRocks said:
Good call man. Very well could be. Extremely slick and has properties of softening up the poly!
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I string for someone who uses it in a full bed and it is quite slick and its a monofilament, but its super soft. I think that may be worth a shot. Would promote string movement while still being very soft. Durability isn't bad either and it holds tension real well. Seems like the ideal cross almost!
 
EasternRocks said:
X-1 has such a high COF on its own, there is no chance it would allow any snapback for poly mains. It would lock up the string bed so quickly. It's got one of the lowest COF's actually.
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Keep in mind that that strings usually uave less friction when hybrided according to TWU. Like some of the gut/polys which are ranked higher paired than separate.
 
eaglesburg said:
Keep in mind that that strings usually uave less friction when hybrided according to TWU. Like some of the gut/polys which are ranked higher paired than separate.
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Understood, but if the string is very low on its own then it is assumed that when hybridized it won't be that MUCH better.
 
AHJS said:
I string for someone who uses it in a full bed and it is quite slick and its a monofilament, but its super soft. I think that may be worth a shot. Would promote string movement while still being very soft. Durability isn't bad either and it holds tension real well. Seems like the ideal cross almost!
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Yeah it does. It seems like Origin would let the mains move WAY better than multi's like NXT. Syn gut would probably be the most economical cross, but it doesn't soften the string bed like a multi can. If Origin can do both then I think there's potential there.
 
EasternRocks said:
Yeah it does. It seems like Origin would let the mains move WAY better than multi's like NXT. Syn gut would probably be the most economical cross, but it doesn't soften the string bed like a multi can. If Origin can do both then I think there's potential there.
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It seems like it could. Worth a try as far as I'm concerned.
 
eaglesburg said:
I've never tried it and it's expensive but if you wanted you Could try gamma glide also.
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Apparently, Glide doesn't have THAT good of a COF rating. It's actually lower than OGSM...

I will try Origin first. NXT and OGSM will be on my order, but I'm really curious how Origin plays. NXT and OGSM both seem to have its shortcomings in terms of a cross.
 
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eaglesburg said:
I was referring to the high COF on x one bi phase.
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Sorry, I keep messing up the phrasing. I meant high instead of low. Even if X-1 is hybridized, it would still have a poor string friction rating because of how low individually it is. Alone, ALU Power isn't that bad and neither is Gut. Combine the 2 and you've got a very impressive rating.
 
EasternRocks said:
Sorry, I keep messing up the phrasing. I meant high instead of low. Even if X-1 is hybridized, it would still have a poor string friction rating because of how low individually it is. Alone, ALU Power isn't that bad and neither is Gut. Combine the 2 and you've got a very impressive rating.
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That's my point. Just because COF is high on its own doesn't mean it won't be low when hybrided.
 
eaglesburg said:
That's my point. Just because COF is high on its own doesn't mean it won't be low when hybrided.
Click to expand...

Yes it will - it will be lower, but it won't be THAT low. With a .314 COF how can one expect even a X-1 and slick poly to be that much lower? (This is if the multi is in the cross)

IF, you are talking about multi main and the X-1 in the main then you are correct. You can find a super slick poly and get the COF to go way down.
 
EasternRocks said:
Yes it will - it will be lower, but it won't be THAT low. With a .314 COF how can one expect even a X-1 and slick poly to be that much lower? (This is if the multi is in the cross)

IF, you are talking about multi main and the X-1 in the main then you are correct. You can find a super slick poly and get the COF to go way down.
Click to expand...

Finally we are in the same page. :)
Building on what you just said, I don't think x one is suited to the crosses. Like you said cross should be slick to allow movement. Just curious...why poly/multi and not multi/poly?
 
eaglesburg said:
Finally we are in the same page. :)
Building on what you just said, I don't think x one is suited to the crosses. Like you said cross should be slick to allow movement. Just curious...why poly/multi and not multi/poly?
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Well. Multi/poly is great, but I am currently using gut/poly. Fantastic, but I could use some more spin. I like the liveliness of gut/poly and the touch/feel...but sometimes I feel like I am losing a little bit of spin and I'm forced to incorporate a lot more wrist movement to get the ball to go up and back down. Poly's are inherently better at having the ball go up and sink into the court.
 
EasternRocks said:
Well. Multi/poly is great, but I am currently using gut/poly. Fantastic, but I could use some more spin. I like the liveliness of gut/poly and the touch/feel...but sometimes I feel like I am losing a little bit of spin and I'm forced to incorporate a lot more wrist movement to get the ball to go up and back down. Poly's are inherently better at having the ball go up and sink into the court.
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I have read multiple times that gut/poly has better spin than poly/gut.
 
eaglesburg said:
I have read multiple times that gut/poly has better spin than poly/gut.
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I'm not using gut. Gut is a string that is rough textured and is not perfectly smooth. It locks up the mains pretty bad after a while. It's good if you can re-string literally every time you play like the pro's.

Multi's are very similar in that they are usually rough and not completely smooth partly due to the fact that they are composed of several fibers and they are not monofilaments like Syn Gut.

Syn Gut, however, will not reduce the stiffness of the poly main as well. This is why Origin is so interesting (thanks AJHS for pointing this string out). It seems to be smooth (low friction) and has a softer feel than most Syn Gut's. Would a Poly/Origin hybrid have more spin than a Gut/Poly? Who knows, but I think it's worth trying out.
 
EasternRocks said:
I'm not using gut. Gut is a string that is rough textured and is not perfectly smooth. It locks up the mains pretty bad after a while. It's good if you can re-string literally every time you play like the pro's.

Multi's are very similar in that they are usually rough and not completely smooth partly due to the fact that they are composed of several fibers and they are not monofilaments like Syn Gut.

Syn Gut, however, will not reduce the stiffness of the poly main as well. This is why Origin is so interesting (thanks AJHS for pointing this string out). It seems to be smooth (low friction) and has a softer feel than most Syn Gut's. Would a Poly/Origin hybrid have more spin than a Gut/Poly? Who knows, but I think it's worth trying out.
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I gotcha. Sorry I forgot that origin is a monofilament. In that case definitely go with origin like ahjs said.
Another option is lower tension or just a soft poly like cyclone tour.
 
eaglesburg said:
I gotcha. Sorry I forgot that origin is a monofilament. In that case definitely go with origin like ahjs said.
Another option is lower tension or just a soft poly like cyclone tour.
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Tried a ton of soft polys (you can refer to my insanely long poly thread) in this forum. Origin is indeed a monofilament unlike ALL multi's which would help with snapback. Just using simple logic, Origin would be a better candidate for a cross in a poly main hybrid than NXT, X-1, NRG2, and any other high premium multi's. With regards to Syn Gut, well I don't have as valid of an argument to claim that Origin would be better than say, OGSM. Cost would be definitely in OGSM's favor, but perhaps the playability and touch/feel departments go to Origin. Whether or not the snapback/spin would be higher with Origin, I'm not sure. I wouldn't trust #'s to make a final judgment on that.

Multi's = no, no in a poly main hybrid is I guess what I'm saying. UNLESS you don't mind that you're losing spin potential as the strings age. Surprisingly, there are a ton of players on my team that like a ALU/Sensation or ALU/NXT Duramax combo. The ALU/Sensation player doesn't play with much spin whatsoever, but somehow the ALU/NXT Duramax guy hits with a good amount of spin on his forehand. He does use a 16/19 egg-shaped Extreme, which would inherently give him more spin. His stroke is also very conducive to getting topspin.

I hit a very flat ball so that really would be something if I had to use their setup. I need to get all the spin I can get from my strings. Poly/poly hurt me simply because I lacked power and feel/touch. Gut/poly has power and feel/touch in SPADES, but sometimes I miss the last second dip feeling of polyester in the mains.
 
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EasternRocks said:
Tried a ton of soft polys (you can refer to my insanely long poly thread) in this forum. Origin is indeed a monofilament unlike ALL multi's which would help with snapback. Just using simple logic, Origin would be a better candidate for a cross in a poly main hybrid than NXT, X-1, NRG2, and any other high premium multi's. With regards to Syn Gut, well I don't have as valid of an argument to claim that Origin would be better than say, OGSM.
Click to expand...
try both. But hopefully the slick origin allows for better spin. Good tension maintenance as well. You will have to find out though
 
eaglesburg said:
try both. But theoretically the origin should be better because of COF. You will have to find out though
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Yes I do. Will see how my experimentation go. One of the setups has to BLOW me out of the water for me to leave Gut/ALU. Although I do think sometimes I could use more spin out of my current set up, there are so many plus' to it that I wouldn't mind staying with it.
 
EasternRocks said:
Tried a ton of soft polys (you can refer to my insanely long poly thread) in this forum. Origin is indeed a monofilament unlike ALL multi's which would help with snapback. Just using simple logic, Origin would be a better candidate for a cross in a poly main hybrid than NXT, X-1, NRG2, and any other high premium multi's. With regards to Syn Gut, well I don't have as valid of an argument to claim that Origin would be better than say, OGSM. Cost would be definitely in OGSM's favor, but perhaps the playability and touch/feel departments go to Origin. Whether or not the snapback/spin would be higher with Origin, I'm not sure. I wouldn't trust #'s to make a final judgment on that.

Multi's = no, no in a poly main hybrid is I guess what I'm saying. UNLESS you don't mind that you're losing spin potential as the strings age. Surprisingly, there are a ton of players on my team that like a ALU/Sensation or ALU/NXT Duramax combo. The ALU/Sensation player doesn't play with much spin whatsoever, but somehow the ALU/NXT Duramax guy hits with a good amount of spin on his forehand. He does use a 16/19 egg-shaped Extreme, which would inherently give him more spin. His stroke is also very conducive to getting topspin.

I hit a very flat ball so that really would be something if I had to use their setup. I need to get all the spin I can get from my strings. Poly/poly hurt me simply because I lacked power and feel/touch. Gut/poly has power and feel/touch in SPADES, but sometimes I miss the spin potential of polyester in the mains.
Click to expand...

Technique matters WAY more.
Why are you using poly?
What is it about monogut that you don't like?
 
eaglesburg said:
Technique matters WAY more.
Why are you using poly?
Click to expand...

It gives you more bite and spin than gut mains. I need to solve how to get more comfort, feel, and power from the setup. Origin seems to be a good experiment.

As for Monogut, I actually have nothing against it. I just prefer to start with the slicker string acc. to data. I'm going to actually use the thinner 17 gauge for Origin. Tension maintenance was lauded in the review so why not go to the thinner gauge? TW has reported that the tension loss for Origin is <10 lbs!!! And this is for the 17g. The 16g must be even better in the tension loss department. However, I will definitely get more playability, more touch/feel, and power out of the 17g.
 
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EasternRocks said:
It gives you more bite and spin than gut mains. I need to solve how to get more comfort, feel, and power from the setup. Origin seems to be a good experiment.

As for Monogut, I actually have nothing against it. I just prefer to start with the slicker string acc. to data. I'm going to actually use the thinner 17 gauge for Origin. Tension maintenance was lauded in the review so why not go to the thinner gauge? TW has reported that the tension loss for Origin is <10 lbs!!! And this is for the 17g. The 16g must be even better in the tension loss department. However, I will definitely get more playability, more touch/feel, and power out of the 17g.
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Do an experiment with origin and sheep micro. String them both in the crosses. Then mix up the rackets. Don't look at the strings. Then play. Then see which one you like better without the placebo of the more expensive slicker string. If I were is I would do this on my very first time hitting with those strings.
 
eaglesburg said:
Do an experiment with origin and sheep micro. String them both in the crosses. Then mix up the rackets. Don't look at the strings. Then play. Then see which one you like better without the placebo of the more expensive slicker string. If I were is I would do this on my very first time hitting with those strings.
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Haha, good idea! We'll see if I try to do this. I was intending on going with the Origin first and then if it played poorly, go to the Sheep Micro to see if there's any salvaging the poly main hybrid. NXT really doesn't seem like a viable option for reasons I outlined above.
 
EasternRocks said:
Hm, yeah I would probably tend to agree. Apparently, poly/gut also has a seriously low COF, which results in low spin potential.
Click to expand...

The reverse is true. Poly/Gut has among the highest COF ie., string to string friction of any hybrid. Gut/Poly has the lowest cof and highest spin potential. You are asking great questions, and getting lots of contrary opinions, while real actual facts are available to you right here. I know it doesn't fit your inner logic at the moment, but in terms of spin potential, the smoother string (in this case poly) should be in the cross.
 
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ChicagoJack said:
The reverse is true. Poly/Gut has among the highest COF ie., string to string friction of any hybrid. Gut/Poly has the lowest cof and highest spin potential. You are asking great questions, and getting lots of contrary opinions, while real actual facts are available to you right here. I know it doesn't fit your inner logic at the moment, but in terms of spin potential, the smoother string (in this case poly) should be in the cross.
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Yes, I meant to say highest. It was a typo!

Do you know if poly/Origin or poly/OGSM would give me the better spin potential? Which one would you take to cross some ALU P mains? NXT seems like it would be the worst string to put in their due to increase friction and the lack of a smooth surface for the mains to glide over for snapback.
 
EasternRocks said:
Yes, I meant to say highest. It was a typo!

Do you know if poly/Origin or poly/OGSM would give me the better spin potential? Which one would you take to cross some ALU P mains? NXT seems like it would be the worst string to put in their due to increase friction and the lack of a smooth surface for the mains to glide over for snapback.
Click to expand...

My experience with origin has been that only the coating is slick and that the coating is gone in no time whatsoever. Monogut ZX as a string itself is slick (not just the coating) so you will get better performance more consistently with it in the crosses IMO.
 
SpinToWin said:
My experience with origin has been that only the coating is slick and that the coating is gone in no time whatsoever. Monogut ZX as a string itself is slick (not just the coating) so you will get better performance more consistently with it in the crosses IMO.
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Not sure if this is entirely true, but I read up on some posters saying that Monogut ZX lacks a little in the feel dep't. That would severely hamper its use for me as I want to actually gain feel/touch from my cross string.

If Origin does lose its coating fast, perhaps thats when I should cut out the strings anyway because Luxilon also loses its tension and playability quickly?

Between Origin and OGSM, do you have any opinion on which I should lean towards prior to even hitting yet based on your knowledge of strings?

Do you think that Monogut ZX would really be the best option out of these 3 choices for ALU mains?
 
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My favorite cross with poly is Prince Premier Touch. It has a hard, slick surface but it plays very soft. Just wish it wasnt so darn expensive.
 
tennis_nut said:
My favorite cross with poly is Prince Premier Touch. It has a hard, slick surface but it plays very soft. Just wish it wasnt so darn expensive.
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Does it work well? Will it allow snapback better than other multifilaments like NXT? It isn't a monofilament string so could that affect spin potential?
 
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EasternRocks said:
Not sure if this is entirely true, but I read up on some posters saying that Monogut ZX lacks a little in the feel dep't. That would severely hamper its use for me as I want to actually gain feel/touch from my cross string.

If Origin does lose its coating fast, perhaps thats when I should cut out the strings anyway because Luxilon also loses its tension and playability quickly?

Between Origin and OGSM, do you have any opinion on which I should lean towards prior to even hitting yet based on your knowledge of strings?

Do you think that Monogut ZX would really be the best option out of these 3 choices for ALU mains?
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Your coach lets to cut strings out? Damn. Players at my University have strings in their racquets for several weeks if they don't break them quickly.
 
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