Poly/poly hybrids for spin production

[Slapper]

I am interested in finding a poly/poly hybrid setup that is optimised for spin production when strung at a moderate tension differential (crosses 2-10 lbs lower than mains).

Based on my limited knowledge, I would say that such a setup might look like this:

Mains:
- Thicker to increase string-ball friction and durability
- Soft/elastic to increase snap-back and reduce denting of crosses
- Low string-string friction to further increase snap-back
- Shaped or rough to further increase string-ball friction
- Good tension maintenance (minimal stabilisation/impact loss, especially) so that the tension differential is maintained for as long as possible

Crosses:
- Thinner to reduce notching and string-string friction, and to create Spin Effect-like spacing between crosses
- Stiff/hard to provide a rigid platform along which mains can slide, and to reduce denting of crosses
- Low string-string friction to further increase snap-back
- Round shape to further reduce notching and string-string friction
- Average tension maintenance so that any stabilisation/impact loss of tension in the mains is 'cancelled out' by equal or more stabilisation/impact loss in crosses, thereby maintaining the tension differential

Do you agree with these criteria? Is there anything else that I should consider? Can you suggest any poly strings or string combinations that might be suitable (if so, please specify the gauges)?

So far I have identified Isospeed Cream 1.28 as a potential candidate for a mains string, as it is soft and has good tension maintenance. However, it is not shaped/rough, and there are no data available for string-string friction, although Isospeed claims to have treated the string with a special wax coating for reduced friction.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experimented with poly/poly hybrids (different strings with the same or different gauge, or same string with different gauge) for the purpose of increasing spin production, especially where tension differentials have been used.

Thanks in advance.

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

I am interested in finding a poly/poly hybrid setup that is optimised for spin production when strung at a moderate tension differential (crosses 2-10 lbs lower than mains).

Based on my limited knowledge, I would say that such a setup might look like this:

Mains:
- Thicker to increase string-ball friction and durability
- Soft/elastic to increase snap-back and reduce denting of crosses
- Low string-string friction to further increase snap-back
- Shaped or rough to further increase string-ball friction
- Good tension maintenance (minimal stabilisation/impact loss, especially) so that the tension differential is maintained for as long as possible

Crosses:
- Thinner to reduce notching and string-string friction, and to create Spin Effect-like spacing between crosses
- Stiff/hard to provide a rigid platform along which mains can slide, and to reduce denting of crosses
- Low string-string friction to further increase snap-back
- Round shape to further reduce notching and string-string friction
- Average tension maintenance so that any stabilisation/impact loss of tension in the mains is 'cancelled out' by equal or more stabilisation/impact loss in crosses, thereby maintaining the tension differential

Do you agree with these criteria? Is there anything else that I should consider? Can you suggest any poly strings or string combinations that might be suitable (if so, please specify the gauges)?

So far I have identified Isospeed Cream 1.28 as a potential candidate for a mains string, as it is soft and has good tension maintenance. However, it is not shaped/rough, and there are no data available for string-string friction, although Isospeed claims to have treated the string with a special wax coating for reduced friction.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experimented with poly/poly hybrids (different strings with the same or different gauge, or same string with different gauge) for the purpose of increasing spin production, especially where tension differentials have been used.

Thanks in advance.

Pretty much right on but I would do the softer/less stiff string on the crosses.

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[Slapper]

Pretty much right on but I would do the softer/less stiff string on the crosses.

Why? Wouldn't that just result in more denting of the crosses, less lateral sliding of mains along crosses, and increased string-string friction?

 

[2nd Serve Ace]

Why? Wouldn't that just result in more denting of the crosses, less lateral sliding of mains along crosses, and increased string-string friction?

Not been my experience, but to each his own.

The crosses are always so tight anyway given the friction with the mains going in.
And it's a shorter string.

 

[Slapper]

Not been my experience, but to each his own.

The crosses are always so tight anyway given the friction with the mains going in.
And it's a shorter string.

I don't understand. I'm intending to string with a tension differential, so the crosses will be looser than the mains by 2-10 lbs. And I'm not sure what the string length has to do with spin production.

 

[Hmgraphite1]

I seem to get less notching in crosses regardless of the poly string. The stiffer mains supposed to give more spin I think if you hit hard.

 

[El_Yotamo]

I am interested in finding a poly/poly hybrid setup that is optimised for spin production when strung at a moderate tension differential (crosses 2-10 lbs lower than mains).

Based on my limited knowledge, I would say that such a setup might look like this:

Mains:
- Thicker to increase string-ball friction and durability
- Soft/elastic to increase snap-back and reduce denting of crosses
- Low string-string friction to further increase snap-back
- Shaped or rough to further increase string-ball friction
- Good tension maintenance (minimal stabilisation/impact loss, especially) so that the tension differential is maintained for as long as possible

Crosses:
- Thinner to reduce notching and string-string friction, and to create Spin Effect-like spacing between crosses
- Stiff/hard to provide a rigid platform along which mains can slide, and to reduce denting of crosses
- Low string-string friction to further increase snap-back
- Round shape to further reduce notching and string-string friction
- Average tension maintenance so that any stabilisation/impact loss of tension in the mains is 'cancelled out' by equal or more stabilisation/impact loss in crosses, thereby maintaining the tension differential

Do you agree with these criteria? Is there anything else that I should consider? Can you suggest any poly strings or string combinations that might be suitable (if so, please specify the gauges)?

So far I have identified Isospeed Cream 1.28 as a potential candidate for a mains string, as it is soft and has good tension maintenance. However, it is not shaped/rough, and there are no data available for string-string friction, although Isospeed claims to have treated the string with a special wax coating for reduced friction.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experimented with poly/poly hybrids (different strings with the same or different gauge, or same string with different gauge) for the purpose of increasing spin production, especially where tension differentials have been used.

Thanks in advance.

I've played over 20 double copoly hybrids, and I can confirm you're on the right track but just missing a little bit.

Firstly, the stiffer/thicker mains won't increase string-ball friction, and it may actually reduce it while increasing inter-string friction. Allow me to explain: as the ball comes into the stringbed, a thinner string will supply the ball with more space to grab the string (like an open pattern would do) and as such effectively increases string-ball friction while also decreasing inter-string friction by reducing contact area (viscoelastic materials such as strings have lower friction coefficients when contact area is smaller as less deformation occurs).

Further, a cross string that dents will dent with whichever main string you choose (including gut). This is a result of the surface layer material properties (not stiffness as shown on TWU). As such you should worry less about dents and more about specific strings. A stiffer main will snap back more efficiently, and a softer cross will have a positive effect on ball pocketing.

Also to add, textured strings (not shaped), especially when lubricated (don't ask me why, still working on it) have exhibited excellent ball bite in the crosses and rather low inter-string friction when there is a non-textured string on the mains (including even shaped strings).

Other than that you're pretty much good. I wouldn't recommend any string thicker than 1.25 mm for this setup, although a 1.25 mm main is fine as that can still have fantastic control and tension maintenance as required. In my experience cream wasn't control-oriented enough for me to confidently hit out and impart spin.

Some of my favorite hybrids include mains such as: Kirschbaum Spiky/Black Shark (prestreched), Diadem Solstice Power/Elite XT, Solinco Tour Bite/Hyper-G, Volkl V-Torque/Cyclone (not such great tension maintenance or durability on either, you've been warned), Weiss Cannon Ultra Cable/Blue Rock 'n Power (UC doesn't have such great tension maintenance either), and probably some others I've forgotten about for now.

Some of my favorite crosses include: Babolat RPM Blast/Team/Rough, Kirschbaum Max Power/Pro Line II/Rough, Yonex Polytour Fire (Air also works but was too soft for me), Wilson Revolve, Head Hawk, Polystar Classic, Luxilon 4G soft/, and more that I've forgotten about as well.

I highly recommend trying Elite XT/Solstice Power mains with RPM Rough crosses, but any other combination from above should be amazing, especially when taking the thinner variations of of the cross string.

 

[Slapper]

I've played over 20 double copoly hybrids, and I can confirm you're on the right track but just missing a little bit.

Firstly, the stiffer/thicker mains won't increase string-ball friction, and it may actually reduce it while increasing inter-string friction. Allow me to explain: as the ball comes into the stringbed, a thinner string will supply the ball with more space to grab the string (like an open pattern would do) and as such effectively increases string-ball friction while also decreasing inter-string friction by reducing contact area (viscoelastic materials such as strings have lower friction coefficients when contact area is smaller as less deformation occurs).

That makes perfect sense. My suggestion of thicker (but less stiff than crosses) mains was really a compromise between ball-string friction, string-string friction, and durability. I agree that increasing the thickness of the mains will increase string-string friction, and I can also imagine that reducing the thickness of the mains would increase string-ball friction (due to larger spaces between main strings) more than increasing the thickness of the mains would (due to greater 'roughness' of the stringbed). However, I would be very concerned about durability if using thin mains. My preference is to use mains that are 1.25 to 1.30, and I certainly wouldn't go any thinner than 1.25. This project simply won't be feasible for me if I end up having to restring after every session or every other session.

Further, a cross string that dents will dent with whichever main string you choose (including gut). This is a result of the surface layer material properties (not stiffness as shown on TWU). As such you should worry less about dents and more about specific strings.

I suspected that this might be the case, hence why I wrote "stiff/hard". Any strings out there that have a particularly hard surface layer?

A stiffer main will snap back more efficiently, and a softer cross will have a positive effect on ball pocketing.

Is efficiency of the snap-back really that important? I mean, gut is not very stiff but it snaps back very well in gut/poly hybrids. Although, I realise that the excellent snap-back might be due to other factors such as gut releasing natural lubricative oils, something that co-poly doesn't do. So are you basically saying go for stiff mains instead of soft mains? If so, then that would create many more options, since stiffer strings tend to have better tension maintenance.

Also to add, textured strings (not shaped), especially when lubricated (don't ask me why, still working on it) have exhibited excellent ball bite in the crosses and rather low inter-string friction when there is a non-textured string on the mains (including even shaped strings).

Interesting. And, yes, I did notice that e.g. RPM Blast Rough has a very low string-string COF, but I realise that those data are not specific to use of the string as a cross. Is there much difference between the different kinds of textures? Perhaps the texture reduces contact area at notches?

Other than that you're pretty much good. I wouldn't recommend any string thicker than 1.25 mm for this setup, although a 1.25 mm main is fine as that can still have fantastic control and tension maintenance as required. In my experience cream wasn't control-oriented enough for me to confidently hit out and impart spin.

Were you using Cream in the mains? What was the other string? Tension(s)?

Some of my favorite hybrids include mains such as: Kirschbaum Spiky/Black Shark (prestreched), Diadem Solstice Power/Elite XT, Solinco Tour Bite/Hyper-G, Volkl V-Torque/Cyclone (not such great tension maintenance or durability on either, you've been warned), Weiss Cannon Ultra Cable/Blue Rock 'n Power (UC doesn't have such great tension maintenance either), and probably some others I've forgotten about for now.

Some of my favorite crosses include: Babolat RPM Blast/Team/Rough, Kirschbaum Max Power/Pro Line II/Rough, Yonex Polytour Fire (Air also works but was too soft for me), Wilson Revolve, Head Hawk, Polystar Classic, Luxilon 4G soft/, and more that I've forgotten about as well.

I highly recommend trying Elite XT/Solstice Power mains with RPM Rough crosses, but any other combination from above should be amazing, especially when taking the thinner variations of of the cross string.

Excellent. Thanks for the suggestions. I already had Solstice Power and RPM Rough on my 'maybe' list, but wasn't sure what to pair them with. But looking at the data, and taking into account your advice above, I can see how they would be a good combo. I think I'd go with Solstice Power 1.25, as 1.30 has about 100% more impact tension loss. How's the durability with this combo? I'd be a bit concerned about durability with Solstice Power's very aggressive shape in a 1.25.

 

[FiReFTW]

I suggest you just use Volkl V-torque Tour, im using them for 2 months now and they offer incredible spin while having quite a bit of pop for a co-poly string.

 

[JoshTheLMT]

I use Hyper G 17g crosses at 48lbs in the mains (lots of bite on the ball), and Prince Tour XC 16L g in the crosses at 50lbs (slick poly with low string to string friction). I love it! I get loads of spin, and so far, good playability duration.


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[El_Yotamo]

However, I would be very concerned about durability if using thin mains. My preference is to use mains that are 1.25 to 1.30, and I certainly wouldn't go any thinner than 1.25. This project simply won't be feasible for me if I end up having to restring after every session or every other session.

I'm in the same boat, although since I use 18x20s I get just a tad more durability. I mainly use mains around the 1.25 area because they offer a good balance of durability/tension maintenance and performance/feel.

I suspected that this might be the case, hence why I wrote "stiff/hard". Any strings out there that have a particularly hard surface layer?

The RPM family has pretty good resilience to notching and a slightly harder surface layer. Same with Polytour Fire/Spin G, and I remember Tecnifibre Razor Code and Kirschbaum Max Power stood out in that department as well.

Is efficiency of the snap-back really that important? I mean, gut is not very stiff but it snaps back very well in gut/poly hybrids. Although, I realise that the excellent snap-back might be due to other factors such as gut releasing natural lubricative oils, something that co-poly doesn't do. So are you basically saying go for stiff mains instead of soft mains? If so, then that would create many more options, since stiffer strings tend to have better tension maintenance.

The efficiency of the snap-back might be the most important part. Gut/poly does this well due to the facilitation of the sliding as a result of the hardness/resilience of the poly crosses in comparison to the gut mains. In theory though, the stiffer the thing snapping back the more elastic rebound energy should impart torque on the ball to spin it upon release. You can go for soft mains if they have a better bite as that would then be more important for the efficiency of snap-back, but go for the stiffest possible string. Solinco Tour Bite is very good for example, it's one of the stiffer strings out there and grabs the ball pretty nicely.

Interesting. And, yes, I did notice that e.g. RPM Blast Rough has a very low string-string COF, but I realise that those data are not specific to use of the string as a cross. Is there much difference between the different kinds of textures? Perhaps the texture reduces contact area at notches?

Basically, the difference the texture makes is mainly through string-ball friction. Basically there are two types of string-ball friction: rotational static (ball-mains) and sliding dynamic (ball-cross). The texture is perpendicular to the ball's slide and as such increases string-ball friction that way. Further, probably as a result of the slight thinning that the texture causes, inter-string friction tends to stay the same as the main string on its own if not go lower than that. That in turn will increase the efficiency of snap-back and increase spin potential.

Were you using Cream in the mains? What was the other string? Tension(s)?

I tried it full bed actually. Dunno, felt like a noodle and I never really felt in control. Felt pretty slick but even when I was able to swing big I didn't feel or see any spin. Maybe try hybriding it with Solinco Revolution, one of the other sole strings which upon trying I felt unable to play above 50% of my potential. It's all subjective though, you won't die if you try it and have the same experience as me.

How's the durability with this combo? I'd be a bit concerned about durability with Solstice Power's very aggressive shape in a 1.25.

It was actually not as bad as I thought it'd be. You wouldn't be surprised to hear it wasn't at the top end of my durability scale, but it did last a good 6-ish hours on one of my more open patterns (MG Instinct MP). Stringing low always helps improve durability, spin, and feel though.

 

[CopolyX]

I am interested in finding a poly/poly hybrid setup that is optimised for spin production when strung at a moderate tension differential (crosses 2-10 lbs lower than mains).

Based on my limited knowledge, I would say that such a setup might look like this:

Mains:
- Thicker to increase string-ball friction and durability
- Soft/elastic to increase snap-back and reduce denting of crosses
- Low string-string friction to further increase snap-back
- Shaped or rough to further increase string-ball friction
- Good tension maintenance (minimal stabilisation/impact loss, especially) so that the tension differential is maintained for as long as possible

Crosses:
- Thinner to reduce notching and string-string friction, and to create Spin Effect-like spacing between crosses
- Stiff/hard to provide a rigid platform along which mains can slide, and to reduce denting of crosses
- Low string-string friction to further increase snap-back
- Round shape to further reduce notching and string-string friction
- Average tension maintenance so that any stabilisation/impact loss of tension in the mains is 'cancelled out' by equal or more stabilisation/impact loss in crosses, thereby maintaining the tension differential

Do you agree with these criteria? Is there anything else that I should consider? Can you suggest any poly strings or string combinations that might be suitable (if so, please specify the gauges)?

So far I have identified Isospeed Cream 1.28 as a potential candidate for a mains string, as it is soft and has good tension maintenance. However, it is not shaped/rough, and there are no data available for string-string friction, although Isospeed claims to have treated the string with a special wax coating for reduced friction.

I would like to hear from anyone who has experimented with poly/poly hybrids (different strings with the same or different gauge, or same string with different gauge) for the purpose of increasing spin production, especially where tension differentials have been used.

Thanks in advance.

Ton of experience here, it is a great option to possible squeeze more stringbed performance.
Basically in just comes down to time, patience, persistence, trail & error.. tracking your results...
No easy path, but fun as hell.
it kinda like chocolate and peanut butter...
you best starting place, is using strings that have passed your tests in a full bed.
Once you narrow down that..
let the mingling begin....

but if the goal is spin production , good luck with that.
spin production should not be the goal of your stringbed.
just the best setup for your game.
The creator of spin , first and foremost is racquet swing speed and racquet angle...
TW labs ..read at least the conclusion .....for those reading challenged...
http://twu.tennis-warehouse.com/learning_center/stringmovementPart2.php

 

[Slapper]

I'm in the same boat, although since I use 18x20s I get just a tad more durability. I mainly use mains around the 1.25 area because they offer a good balance of durability/tension maintenance and performance/feel.

Yeah, I'm probably going to switch to an 18x20 before I start these experiments, so hopefully that will help with the durability of 1.25 mains.

The RPM family has pretty good resilience to notching and a slightly harder surface layer. Same with Polytour Fire/Spin G, and I remember Tecnifibre Razor Code and Kirschbaum Max Power stood out in that department as well.

Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll start with RPM Blast Rough 1.25 as a cross then, as it appears to tick all the boxes so far. Pity it doesn't come in a thinner gauge.

Might try it as mains too.

The efficiency of the snap-back might be the most important part. Gut/poly does this well due to the facilitation of the sliding as a result of the hardness/resilience of the poly crosses in comparison to the gut mains. In theory though, the stiffer the thing snapping back the more elastic rebound energy should impart torque on the ball to spin it upon release. You can go for soft mains if they have a better bite as that would then be more important for the efficiency of snap-back, but go for the stiffest possible string. Solinco Tour Bite is very good for example, it's one of the stiffer strings out there and grabs the ball pretty nicely.

OK, good to know. I was actually considering Tour Bite Soft 1.25. It appears to be pretty similar to Tour Bite 1.25, but is obviously less stiff. Though, on the plus side, it has about 50% less impact loss compared with Tour Bite 1.25.

I tried it full bed actually. Dunno, felt like a noodle and I never really felt in control. Felt pretty slick but even when I was able to swing big I didn't feel or see any spin. Maybe try hybriding it with Solinco Revolution, one of the other sole strings which upon trying I felt unable to play above 50% of my potential. It's all subjective though, you won't die if you try it and have the same experience as me.

Revolution 1.25 was another one on my list for mains. Perhaps, Cream is best as a cross.

It was actually not as bad as I thought it'd be. You wouldn't be surprised to hear it wasn't at the top end of my durability scale, but it did last a good 6-ish hours on one of my more open patterns (MG Instinct MP). Stringing low always helps improve durability, spin, and feel though.

Yeah, I'm stringing lowish, like 40-47 lbs.

So, at this point, I'm thinking that I'll just try to keep it simple by using RPM Blast Rough 1.25 as a cross with different mains such as Solstice Power 1.25, Revolution 1.25, Tour Bite Soft 1.25 or Tour Bite 1.25, and maybe RPM Blast Rough 1.30 (for a little more durability). Then if I decide to get adventurous, I might try some of the other strings you suggested, as well as a few combos with Cream 1.23 or 1.28 as a cross.

 

[El_Yotamo]

Yeah, I'm probably going to switch to an 18x20 before I start these experiments, so hopefully that will help with the durability of 1.25 mains.



Thanks for the suggestions. I think I'll start with RPM Blast Rough 1.25 as a cross then, as it appears to tick all the boxes so far. Pity it doesn't come in a thinner gauge.

Might try it as mains too.



OK, good to know. I was actually considering Tour Bite Soft 1.25. It appears to be pretty similar to Tour Bite 1.25, but is obviously less stiff. Though, on the plus side, it has about 50% less impact loss compared with Tour Bite 1.25.



Revolution 1.25 was another one on my list for mains. Perhaps, Cream is best as a cross.



Yeah, I'm stringing lowish, like 40-47 lbs.

So, at this point, I'm thinking that I'll just try to keep it simple by using RPM Blast Rough 1.25 as a cross with different mains such as Solstice Power 1.25, Revolution 1.25, Tour Bite Soft 1.25 or Tour Bite 1.25, and maybe RPM Blast Rough 1.30 (for a little more durability). Then if I decide to get adventurous, I might try some of the other strings you suggested, as well as a few combos with Cream 1.23 or 1.28 as a cross.

Sounds good, good luck!

 

[El_Yotamo]

Slay the double post dragon!

 

[Roland G]

I've used Tour Bite 1.10 in the mains with ProLine II 1.15 in the crosses to good effect

 

[Tennis_Monk]

I tried many poly poly hybrids. Best was ultra cable in mains and alu power rough in crosses.

 

[caprivi]

Was thinking of trying a Tour bite 18/Cyclone 19, 45/40 hybrid in an 18x20. Any thoughts or predictions about this combo?

 

[Muppet]

Was thinking of trying a Tour bite 18/Cyclone 19, 45/40 hybrid in an 18x20. Any thoughts or predictions about this combo?

Too many edges. People usually like a shaped poly main with a smooth/round poly cross. This gives the mains the freedom to move easily for better spin and control. I used Tour Bite Soft 1.20/Mosquito Bite 1.16 and it was very good, especially the control.

 

[ron schaap]

I tried many poly poly hybrids. Best was ultra cable in mains and alu power rough in crosses.

I have tried one racquet with full ultra cable, but find it very dead yet it crabs the ball like no other. Would you know a cheaper alternative to alu rough as a cross?

 

[Tennis_Monk]

I have tried one racquet with full ultra cable, but find it very dead yet it crabs the ball like no other. Would you know a cheaper alternative to alu rough as a cross?

Max power rough is pretty close in my experience.
Firewire is another option with the added benefit of spin

 

[Slapper]

Some of my favorite crosses include: Babolat RPM Blast/Team/Rough, Kirschbaum Max Power/Pro Line II/Rough, Yonex Polytour Fire (Air also works but was too soft for me), Wilson Revolve, Head Hawk, Polystar Classic, Luxilon 4G soft/, and more that I've forgotten about as well.

I highly recommend trying Elite XT/Solstice Power mains with RPM Rough crosses, but any other combination from above should be amazing, especially when taking the thinner variations of of the cross string.

I'm going to try the Solstice Power 1.25 / RPM Blast Rough 1.25 setup soon, but in the meantime I'm just wondering why you specifically recommend RPM Blast Rough over RPM Blast and RPM Team. How does the spin potential and playability duration compare for these three strings when used for crosses? Any other info comparing these three strings would be greatly appreciated.

 

[El_Yotamo]

I'm going to try the Solstice Power 1.25 / RPM Blast Rough 1.25 setup soon, but in the meantime I'm just wondering why you specifically recommend RPM Blast Rough over RPM Blast and RPM Team. How does the spin potential and playability duration compare for these three strings when used for crosses? Any other info comparing these three strings would be greatly appreciated.

I felt the rough had a bit extra feel and pocketing, and unlike intuitive logic might make one believe, facilitated snap-back better and more efficiently (both by my data and how I felt with it on court). Blast and Team are great too (Team for control and tension maintenance, Blast for some more spin pop and very slightly more snap-back) but I've had better success with rough as a cross for the above reason.

 

[Slapper]

I felt the rough had a bit extra feel and pocketing, and unlike intuitive logic might make one believe, facilitated snap-back better and more efficiently (both by my data and how I felt with it on court). Blast and Team are great too (Team for control and tension maintenance, Blast for some more spin pop and very slightly more snap-back) but I've had better success with rough as a cross for the above reason.

Thanks.

Did you notice any difference in playability duration between the three strings? Just wondering because the TW Review states that playability duration was a big downside of RPM Blast Rough.

And on the topic of playability duration, I am crossing Solinco Revolution 1.25 and 1.30 off my list as main string candidates. I tried both in full beds and found that they were nice when new, but went completely dead after a few hours and started giving me arm pain. But I liked Solinco Tour Bite Soft 1.25 in a full bed (more spin and doesn't go dead like Revolution) so I am going to try it with the RPM Blast Rough 1.25 crosses. My only issue with Tour Bite Soft 1.25 is that it breaks after 4 hours for me.

 

[El_Yotamo]

Did you notice any difference in playability duration between the three strings? Just wondering because the TW Review states that playability duration was a b

I feel like for a cross string it gets the job done. Not too great as a main though, I'll have to at least partly agree with TW on that. Obviously Team has by far the best tension maintenance and playability duration while Blast and Rough are both quite poor as mains despite being not too bad for crosses.

And on the topic of playability duration, I am crossing Solinco Revolution 1.25 and 1.30 off my list as main string candidates. I tried both in full beds and found that they were nice when new, but went completely dead after a few hours and started giving me arm pain. But I liked Solinco Tour Bite Soft 1.25 in a full bed (more spin and doesn't go dead like Revolution) so I am going to try it with the RPM Blast Rough 1.25 crosses. My only issue with Tour Bite Soft 1.25 is that it breaks after 4 hours for me.

You are certainly not alone in your low opinion of Revolution, nor are you alone in your durability issue with TBS.

 

[Slapper]

I recently finished testing three different poly/poly hybrid setups. Below are my mini reviews of these hybrid setups, along with mini reviews of two non-hybrid reference setups. I have only mentioned things that stood out to me. Note that the rackets were not all strung by the same operator or on the same machine, but all were strung on an electronic constant pull machine.

NON-HYBRID REFERENCE SETUP 1
Strings: Solinco Tour Bite Soft 1.25
Tension: 45/40 lbs
Change in racket length: -3.0 mm
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to first test: 28.5 N/mm, 40.0 lbs
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to last test: 24.3 N/mm, 34.1 lbs
Notes: I liked this setup. Very comfortable and quite powerful. Would have preferred slightly less power and slightly more control. Spin potential was high on all kinds of shots and did not decline much over the play test. I could feel the strings gripping the ball and could also feel some snap back. Top spin groundstrokes and second serves were dipping fast and kicking up nicely, forcing my hitting partner to adjust. Feel was nice, with good ball pocketing. However, after about 2 hours of play, the strings started to go a bit dead, resulting in some unwanted vibration and shock on off-centre hits. No arm pain though. In the last hour of play, control was very poor mainly due to the strings being too powerful. Strings broke after about 4 hours of play.

NON-HYBRID REFERENCE SETUP 2
Strings: Luxilon Element 1.25
Tension: 47/47 lbs
Change in racket length: -3.5 mm (usually when I string mains and crosses at same tension, the racket length is unchanged, but this was not the case here, and I don't know why)
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to first test: Unknown
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to last test: Unknown
Notes: I disliked this setup due to it being too stiff. However, spin potential was high (perhaps due to the greater-than-expected tension differential, as confirmed by the change in racket length) and did not decline much over the play test. The level/feel of snap back was exceptional on certain shots e.g. on-the-rise backhand slices in response to heavy top spin shots, but in general this setup did not provide quite as much spin as the Tour Bite Soft setup reviewed above. As the strings loosened up, they became more comfortable, and the playability did not drop off too much. Strings broke after about 4 hours of play.

HYBRID SETUP 1
Strings: Solinco Hyper-G 1.30 / Babolat RPM Blast Rough 1.25 (black)
Tension: 49/44 lbs
Change in racket length: -3.5 mm
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to first test: 29.7 N/mm, 41.7 lbs
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to last test: 25.5 N/mm, 35.9 lbs
Notes: I strongly disliked this setup. Way too stiff. Off-centre shots were harsh. Very low powered. Spin potential was OK but nothing special. I could not feel any significant snap back. Launch angle was too low, resulting in more balls into the net. The glossy silicone coating and rough texture on the RPM Blast Rough crosses wore off in the sweet spot within 1 h, resulting in a smooth matte cross string surface. After about 3 hours of play, the strings started to go dead resulting in some unwanted vibration and decreased stability on off-centre shots. At about 5 hours the strings were completely dead and I was getting some elbow pain. Strings broke after about 6 hours of play.

HYBRID SETUP 2
Strings: Diadem Solstice Power 1.30 / Babolat RPM Blast Rough 1.25 (black)
Tension: 49/44 lbs
Change in racket length: -3.5 mm
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to first test: 28.8 N/mm, 40.4 lbs
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to last test: 24.6 N/mm, 34.6 lbs
Notes: I strongly disliked this setup. It was similar to Hybrid Setup 1 described above, but it was slightly softer (but still way too stiff), and it had almost no feel. Solstice Power mains did feel like they had a bit more grip on the ball compared with Hyper-G mains, but this did not translate into higher spin potential. After about 3 hours of play, the strings had softened up and were a bit more lively, but there was an unwanted trampoline effect and associated loss of control. Strings broke after about 6 hours of play.

HYBRID SETUP 3
Strings: Diadem Solstice Power 1.30 / Babolat RPM Blast Rough 1.25 (black)
Tension: 45/40 lbs
Change in racket length: -2.5 mm
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to first test: 24.5 N/mm, 34.4 lbs
String bed stiffness / tension immediately prior to last test: 20.2 N/mm, 28.4 lbs
Notes: I strongly disliked this setup. It was similar to Hybrid Setup 2 above, with the exception that it was comfortable from the start (not too stiff). Surprisingly, it was still very underpowered despite the lower tension. Even when I made solid connection, my shots lacked penetration. After 4 hours of use I cut the strings out.


Additional comments:
Although I strongly disliked all three hybrid setups, I did gain some useful information. In my OP, I was concerned that the tension differential might not be maintained if the mains have poor tension maintenance compared with the crosses. However, the results from my play tests suggest that there is no need to be concerned about this. The Hyper-G 1.30 and Solstice Power 1.30 mains have poor tension maintenance compared with the RPM Blast Rough crosses (based on data from the TW String Performance Database). Despite this, the change in racket length (which indicates the presence of a tension differential) was maintained until the end in all three hybrid setups.

Next play test:
Solinco Tour Bite Soft 1.25 / Yonex Poly Tour Fire 1.20
Solinco Tour Bite Soft 1.25 / Luxilon Element 1.25

Other strings on hand:
Solinco Tour Bite 1.25 (for mains)
Diadem Elite XT 1.25 (for mains)
Luxilon ALU Power 1.25 (for crosses)

 

[USPTARF97]

Solinco Tour Bite 1.25 or Hyper G 1.25 @ 45-52 depending on the frame and it doesn’t get much better. Incredible spin and controllable power. Finding a poly/poly set up that plays better than a full poly set up is an endless process where one can go through a tremendous amount of quality string and not care for the set up. Full bed Luxilon Alu Power, Solinco Hyper G and Tourbite are premium quality strings that generate great power, spin and control. Lower tensions stringing the mains and crosses at the same tension will generate more controllable spin if needed. Have tried the poly/poly route and it just gets complicated,unpredictable and expensive. When I started putting quality strings together and didn’t like the way they played I was done. Just my experience.

 

[Slapper]

Solinco Tour Bite 1.25 or Hyper G 1.25 @ 45-52 depending on the frame and it doesn’t get much better. Incredible spin and controllable power. Finding a poly/poly set up that plays better than a full poly set up is an endless process where one can go through a tremendous amount of quality string and not care for the set up. Full bed Luxilon Alu Power, Solinco Hyper G and Tourbite are premium quality strings that generate great power, spin and control. Lower tensions stringing the mains and crosses at the same tension will generate more controllable spin if needed. Have tried the poly/poly route and it just gets complicated,unpredictable and expensive. When I started putting quality strings together and didn’t like the way they played I was done. Just my experience.

I am currently sceptical but open-minded regarding poly/poly hybrids, and that’s why I decided to do a few experiments. I have no intention of turning it into an endless process and burning through a tremendous amount of string. But I’m quite happy to try maybe 8-10 poly/poly hybrids, if only to satisfy my curiosity. If none of them work, then I will be happy knowing that I am not missing out on a good thing. And if one or more do work, then obviously I’d be happy about that too.

I’m curious to know why you think that poly/poly hybrids generally don’t outperform full beds. It is not obvious to me why this should be the case. Considering the mains and crosses do not have the exact same functions, and considering the wide range of different polys available, it seems reasonable to think that there would be many poly/poly hybrid combinations that could outperform full beds. What happens when you hybrid Hyper-G or Tour Bite mains with ALU Power crosses? Do you somehow lose some of the incredible spin and controllable power that you said you get from full bed? Or does it make no significant difference?

 

[USPTARF97]

I am currently sceptical but open-minded regarding poly/poly hybrids, and that’s why I decided to do a few experiments. I have no intention of turning it into an endless process and burning through a tremendous amount of string. But I’m quite happy to try maybe 8-10 poly/poly hybrids, if only to satisfy my curiosity. If none of them work, then I will be happy knowing that I am not missing out on a good thing. And if one or more do work, then obviously I’d be happy about that too.

I’m curious to know why you think that poly/poly hybrids generally don’t outperform full beds. It is not obvious to me why this should be the case. Considering the mains and crosses do not have the exact same functions, and considering the wide range of different polys available, it seems reasonable to think that there would be many poly/poly hybrid combinations that could outperform full beds. What happens when you hybrid Hyper-G or Tour Bite mains with ALU Power crosses? Do you somehow lose some of the incredible spin and controllable power that you said you get from full bed? Or does it make no significant difference?

You used some quality strings with the hybrids that you tried. What was your experience? Believe you said you dislike them. That has been my experience as well. Those strings you mentioned, at a good tension for your frame and game are awesome. Hard to improve on full poly stringbeds that have proven to produce the best results. The best players out there use the best strings and combinations available and they are a fairly good gauge for what plays best. You may find the majic if you keep trying hybrid set ups. I found like others that with these high quality strings in the mains and crosses, experimenting with tensions will produce what you want.

 

[Slapper]

You used some quality strings with the hybrids that you tried. What was your experience? Believe you said you dislike them. That has been my experience as well. Hard to improve on full poly stringbeds that have proven to produce the best results.

Yes, that’s correct. However, I have only done a few tests, and I did not try any of the strings in full beds prior to testing them in hybrids, so I have no idea if a full bed would be better or worse.

Assuming it is true that it is hard to improve on full beds, I’m still wonder why that should be the case. I welcome any thoughts you may have.

 

[USPTARF97]

Yes, that’s correct. However, I have only done a few tests, and I did not try any of the strings in full beds prior to testing them in hybrids, so I have no idea if a full bed would be better or worse.

Assuming it is true that it is hard to improve on full beds, I’m still wonder why that should be the case. I welcome any thoughts you may have.

Tremendous amount of testing has been done with poly strings. At the professional level and recreational level you are going to see more full bed poly with the same mains and crosses. That is for a reason. From experience I just think it plays more consistent with the same mains and crosses when it come to playing full poly. If you haven’t tried any of those strings in full bed I would encourage you to give that a shot. Luxilon Alu Power 1.25 full bed would be worth a try as well. If you are having fun experimenting then I say go for it but there is a good chance you will circle back around after spending a good bit of time and money only to find out that full bed poly with the same string is business. The only people I know that put a different poly in the crosses are using a softer poly to make it easier on the arm. Not necessarily about increased playability.

*75 percent of ATP players use full bed Luxilon, Lux/Gut, or Gut/Lux.

 

[Sardines]

I've found in my latest test a slight improvement in spin by using Cyclone 18L with Tecnifibre Pro Red Code Wax 18g, vs Cyclone 18L and 19g as a cross. I was surprised I had 100+rpm more on the playsight. While I didn't gain power, it felt slightly easier to bunt and hit half volley ground strokes. It was easy to hit with spin because of the wax and grip of the Cyclone. Feel definitely is maintained. I thought PRCW was stiff so I lowered my usual tension by 2lbs, but I think I need to drop another 1-2lbs to where I like it. Not that it's uncomfortable.

 

[EasternRocks]

If I’m using a 125/120 hybrid should I use a differential or string both at same tension?

 

[1HBHfanatic]

If I’m using a 125/120 hybrid should I use a differential or string both at same tension?

-what strings, racquet and pattern?
-do you like/preffer softer crosses on a poly/poly hybrid?

 

[EasternRocks]

-what strings, racquet and pattern?
-do you like/preffer softer crosses on a poly/poly hybrid?

poly tour pro 125 and 120 yellow. Xi98. 16/19 with denser 8 main throat.
I prefer thinner gauge in cross versus thicker. I have tried both ways.

if I try both 2 pound differential and same both ways I have 10 different possibilities ranging from 48/46 to 52/50

1. 48 / 46
2. 47 / 47
3. 49 / 47
4. 48 / 48
5. 49 / 49
6. 50 / 48
7. 50 / 50
8. 51 / 49
9. 51 / 51
10. 52 / 50

 

[galapagos]

what about poly tour spin 1.25 mains / poly tour pro 1.30 crosses hybrid. I think Ruud is using that one.

 

[blai212]

poly tour pro 125 and 120 yellow. Xi98. 16/19 with denser 8 main throat.
I prefer thinner gauge in cross versus thicker. I have tried both ways.

if I try both 2 pound differential and same both ways I have 10 different possibilities ranging from 48/46 to 52/50

1. 48 / 46
2. 47 / 47
3. 49 / 47
4. 48 / 48
5. 49 / 49
6. 50 / 48
7. 50 / 50
8. 51 / 49
9. 51 / 51
10. 52 / 50

I have found tension differential to have the following effects on the string beds…lower on cross means more elastic feeling (more power/spin, less control) and higher on cross to produce more boardy feeling (less power/spin, more control similar to a denser pattern such as 18x20). I like to use ~1.23/1.25 mains with ~1.20/1.18 cross at about 3-4 lbs differential (37/34) since I have very sensitive arm and love the extra power/spin/ball pocketing. In my experiences with PTP, I have found it to have short playability duration with 1.20 so I would use 1.25 full bed at 52/48

 

[WYK]

Too many edges. People usually like a shaped poly main with a smooth/round poly cross. This gives the mains the freedom to move easily for better spin and control. I used Tour Bite Soft 1.20/Mosquito Bite 1.16 and it was very good, especially the control.

The edges in the crosses don't really matter. It's the coefficient of friction that matters as far as string movement is concerned. So long as one of the mains or crosses is slick and stiff, you will get string movement. In fact, if the cross are gear shaped, there may be less of the string contacting the mains than there would be in a round poly - thus even less friction.

I have tried the exact combination of 18g TB in the mains and 19g cyclone(non tour) in the crosses. The spin and control are excellent. The only issue is it can feel a bit boardy at higher tensions, so be careful there.

But you really do not need a premium cross. Just find one you like as the slickness and the stiffness is what matters. I mainly use CoFocus as a cross nowadays. It's a bit softer and slightly more lively than the volkl option and easier to string and has as much spin when the main is slick.

The only thing I will add on top of that is I can usually feel when the strings are moving when I hit the ball. Aside from the results, it's fairly easy to tell if you are getting good string movement or not.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

poly tour pro 125 and 120 yellow. Xi98. 16/19 with denser 8 main throat.
I prefer thinner gauge in cross versus thicker. I have tried both ways.

if I try both 2 pound differential and same both ways I have 10 different possibilities ranging from 48/46 to 52/50

1. 48 / 46
2. 47 / 47
3. 49 / 47
4. 48 / 48
5. 49 / 49
6. 50 / 48
7. 50 / 50
8. 51 / 49
9. 51 / 51
10. 52 / 50

-i let the CROSSES decide the tensions of the MAINS (let me explain..)
-ill string the crosses as tight as i like them to be ,(no tighter) in my case with yptp 17g i like 49lbs crosses,, which then makes the mains +2lbs higher ,(so in this case 51lbs)
-on stiffer strings, i like 47lbs crosses, which make mains 49lbs,, again, thats because i dont like a hard feel on ball contact
-i tend to think that crosses create the feel/comfort, and the mains are the playability/spin
-i do know that mains dictate play on a string bed!, but for me crosses dictate comfort

 

[EasternRocks]

what about poly tour spin 1.25 mains / poly tour pro 1.30 crosses hybrid. I think Ruud is using that one.

I tried this setup yesterday both 125/120 and 120/120 and hated both.

 

[galapagos]

I tried this setup yesterday both 125/120 and 120/120 and hated both.

sounds like you missed the one correct 125/130

 

[EasternRocks]

sounds like you missed the one correct 125/130

doesnt he use 125/125? I’ve tried using thicker crosses in a poly hybrid and the more locked up string bed really decreases comfort by a lot. It feels boardy as the other members have commented.

 

[EasternRocks]

I have found tension differential to have the following effects on the string beds…lower on cross means more elastic feeling (more power/spin, less control) and higher on cross to produce more boardy feeling (less power/spin, more control similar to a denser pattern such as 18x20). I like to use ~1.23/1.25 mains with ~1.20/1.18 cross at about 3-4 lbs differential (37/34) since I have very sensitive arm and love the extra power/spin/ball pocketing. In my experiences with PTP, I have found it to have short playability duration with 1.20 so I would use 1.25 full bed at 52/48

yeah, same observation. Issue with 1.25 full and I’ve done it even as low as 44/44 is it’s not elastic enough so it ends up feeling quite dull in a full set. I get more pop at the low tension, but it still feels better when I have full 1.20. But I agree the short playability duration messes the 1.20 up. Hence why I am trying to hybrid the two.

 

[EasternRocks]

-i let the CROSSES decide the tensions of the MAINS (let me explain..)
-ill string the crosses as tight as i like them to be ,(no tighter) in my case with yptp 17g i like 49lbs crosses,, which then makes the mains +2lbs higher ,(so in this case 51lbs)
-on stiffer strings, i like 47lbs crosses, which make mains 49lbs,, again, thats because i dont like a hard feel on ball contact
-i tend to think that crosses create the feel/comfort, and the mains are the playability/spin
-i do know that mains dictate play on a string bed!, but for me crosses dictate comfort

yes thanks for your observations. Do you think it’s better than to stick with testing the 2 lb differential until I’ve landed on what I like or try the same tension mains and crosses too? Logic being the more I play the more the differential would get since both are losing tension — effectively then making the trajectory even higher and more unpredictable.

 

[galapagos]

doesnt he use 125/125? I’ve tried using thicker crosses in a poly hybrid and the more locked up string bed really decreases comfort by a lot. It feels boardy as the other members have commented.

If you check yonex website you can see that he is listed as a 1.30 poly tour pro user. But we all know it can be complicated with those brands telling us something

 

[1HBHfanatic]

yes thanks for your observations. Do you think it’s better than to stick with testing the 2 lb differential until I’ve landed on what I like or try the same tension mains and crosses too? Logic being the more I play the more the differential would get since both are losing tension — effectively then making the trajectory even higher and more unpredictable.

-the 2lb cross tension drop should be a "tweak" to what ever tension you like best
-i would find what tension fits best for that racquet first and then tweak
-i do this with strings and/or racquets i dont know, ill just start with like a standard tension FB both mains/crosses the same,
-for example, i just tested yonex 98 ezone racquets, not knowing how it would feel, i went with "full bed" (#1 factor, hybrids can mask aspects of the racquet), 51lbs (#2 factor, not too high, not too low)
-at that tension i was able to see what i liked, did not like about the feel, i would provably redo the tension at 50/48 for a better "tweak" and or for better power/playability for my game

-if you already know the way the string feels
-and you already know the way the racquet feels, then yes, its tweak time!!

-ive found that 2lbs is my minimum differential where i can tell tension apart, anything less is very hard for me to tell

 

[EasternRocks]

I have found tension differential to have the following effects on the string beds…lower on cross means more elastic feeling (more power/spin, less control) and higher on cross to produce more boardy feeling (less power/spin, more control similar to a denser pattern such as 18x20). I like to use ~1.23/1.25 mains with ~1.20/1.18 cross at about 3-4 lbs differential (37/34) since I have very sensitive arm and love the extra power/spin/ball pocketing. In my experiences with PTP, I have found it to have short playability duration with 1.20 so I would use 1.25 full bed at 52/48

im going to try a full 1.25 bed at 51/47. I may also do a 49/47 to see. Do you think those two would play very different at all?

 

[EasternRocks]

-the 2lb cross tension drop should be a "tweak" to what ever tension you like best
-i would find what tension fits best for that racquet first and then tweak
-i do this with strings and/or racquets i dont know, ill just start with like a standard tension FB both mains/crosses the same,
-for example, i just tested yonex 98 ezone racquets, not knowing how it would feel, i went with "full bed" (#1 factor, hybrids can mask aspects of the racquet), 51lbs (#2 factor, not too high, not too low)
-at that tension i was able to see what i liked, did not like about the feel, i would provably redo the tension at 50/48 for a better "tweak" and or for better power/playability for my game

-if you already know the way the string feels
-and you already know the way the racquet feels, then yes, its tweak time!!

-ive found that 2lbs is my minimum differential where i can tell tension apart, anything less is very hard for me to tell

since I know how the string feels and how the racquet does too, I’ll only test with the 2lbs differential and thank you for the cross tension being what to focus on, that helps and gives me some reference instead of guessing. I was always wondering why the 47/45 I was using was always getting too launchy after a honeymoon first hour.

 

[blai212]

could try multi/PTP hybrid if you want more pop, comfort, feel at the cost of durability.

 

[Tennisist]

I've had most spin production out of these setups:
Tier 1 FireWire 1.25 / Pro's Pro Red Devil 1.18
Mayami Big Spin 1.25 / Polyfibre Black Venom 1.15
Mayami Tour Hex 1.23 / WeissCannon Mosquito Bite 1.16
Yonex Poly Tour Spin 1.25 / MSV Co-Focus 18

I've tried soft strings as mains, but spin production was not as strong as from the stiffish strings.