Poly strings and tennis elbow

[socallefty]

I’m curious to find out if anyone here who was diligent about stringing poly strings only below 50lbs and always restrung them within recommended lifetimes (8-10 hours for original stiff polys, 12-15 hours for softer co-polys) has ever had tennis elbow issues when they switched to poly strings on the same racquet they always play. It seems like most players who complain of tennis elbow being caused by poly confess that they don’t cut them out within 15 hours (if they are not a string-breaker) or strung them well above 50 lbs at the normal tensions they used previously for softer multi/SG/NG. Or they switched to a new racquet that is much more stiff and still used poly at the same tension.

Most pro shops don’t warn players that they should restring poly within 10-15 hours and have no problems stringing at whatever high tensions players want even if it is on a dense 18x20 pattern or a >70 stiffness racquet. There are so many players at my club who like poly because they don’t have to ‘adjust strings’ and ‘it doesn’t break and is very durable’ - they basically don’t restring for many months until they feel elbow twinges. I don’t know why the pro shops doing the stringing don’t want to warn their customers that poly has a limited lifetime and there is a real risk of elbow problems if they play with it for four to six months.

 

[lucieisland]

after playing, testing several different setups, strings, rackets, catching TE several times, some of my personal conclusions are:

flex frame, + 300g + poly high tension: no problem
flex frame + 300g + poly low voltage: no problem
flex frame -300g (280g), + high voltage poly: no problem
-300g flex frame + low voltage poly; no problem

rigid frame + 300g + rigid poly: TE after 4 hours with luxilon alu power
rigid frame (+ 68RA) heavy (310g unstrung) + poly soft (yonex poly tour air @ 25kg: pain quickly after 2h

light rigid frames (68RA 288g) + poly soft: pain after approximately 1 hour.

the key for me is: light frame = rigid frame (often) light frame for me -280g

adding lead doesn't do anything, as I think the very graphite structure can filter out vibrations, whereas light frames rarely filter.

 

[Arak]

Just to add my 2 cents, some people like myself are not meant to play with poly. I can play several hours a day for long periods of time with tightly strung multis without any pain, but one hour session with poly and my elbow is inflamed for two weeks.

 

[esm]

Just to add my 2 cents, some people like myself are not meant to play with poly. I can play several hours a day for long periods of time with tightly strung multis without any pain, but one hour session with poly and my elbow is inflamed for two weeks.

same here.
not so sure why use poly if a player isnt a string breaker....

 

[lucieisland]

because some people believe that poly used by professional ATP or WTA used on their amateur racquet with amateur club level will make them play like ATP or WTA!

and the worst is that some professional silts make them believe that!

I play at a level 5.5 to 6.5 when everything is perfect, but closer to 5.0 to 5.5.

I use poly for a single purpose: to make the crosses more slippery so as not to wear out the mains! ..

 

[lucieisland]

same here.
not so sure why use poly if a player isnt a string breaker....

they consider that if they play with professional equipment, racquet, string, shoes, clothing, they will be professionals, or will play as professionals, and they enrich physiotherapy and businesses.

 

[Arak]

same here.
not so sure why use poly if a player isnt a string breaker....

I think the main reason is to get more spin. That would be the only reason why I would ever try poly.

 

[lucieisland]

I think the main reason is to get more spin. That would be the only reason why I would ever try poly.

I have the impression that it is a little simpler even than that.

in my time, it was simple, if we wanted to progress, we had to spend time on the court
if you wanted to progress very quickly, you had to take private lessons.
if we wanted to gain speed of movement, we had weights that were tied to the ankles.

I have the impression, looking at my students from 12 to 15 years old that today, marketing is doing everything to make them believe that with a powerful racket they will gain speed, and power, with a string spin, the bounce of the ball will explode, with such hose they will go faster, and even bounce.

we sell them a world like video games, where skills can be bought. or you can find a trick to overcome such a lack, gain power, control, spin just by adapting your equipment.

 

[esm]

they consider that if they play with professional equipment, racquet, string, shoes, clothing, they will be professionals, or will play as professionals, and they enrich physiotherapy and businesses.

ah yes, of course - how silly of me not to get on with their programme.... sorry about that.. lol

 

[socallefty]

Just to add my 2 cents, some people like myself are not meant to play with poly. I can play several hours a day for long periods of time with tightly strung multis without any pain, but one hour session with poly and my elbow is inflamed for two weeks.

Sorry to hear that, Does it happen with all kinds of racquets or are they usually very stiff (68 RA strung or above)? Also, have you done any strengthening of your tendons (using Flexbar or physical therapy) after you got tennis elbow to prevent it being a chronic issue?

 

[weelie]

I have had elbow issues in the past, after returning to tennis after hiatus of 20 years, like 5-6 years. I currently use poly, because it is durable and has good control. Once my stringer is back in the game, I will be back to Crossfire ZX, which lasts like 3 months (70h maybe), and it is easy to follow the wear. So I can see when I will need to replace it. Poly, well, I don't cut it, I play until it breaks. Takes like 30h. As a kid, I remember some of the syn gut that I liked, would break in 1-8h. I remember a friend who plays Wilson NXT (multi), we played two 1h matches (one 1h doubles, two 1h singles), he broke strings in all of his 3 RF rackets, had to play with borrowed racket... and lost. For me Crossfire ZX appears a perfect compromise, but for now, I am back to soft poly. I have no arm issues (though finger joints do ache, but that's another thing completely).

For me, I avoid stiff rackets, so it is max 63RA for me. It still allows me to string soft poly, from 53 up to 58lb, though I've used poly hybrids (like multi cross, for example) also in the past (they've always been a slight disappointment). My rackets weigh 12-13oz and are very headlight (which I think also affect comfort). I used to use sorbothane grips, but I don't see the point in those anymore.

 

[Arak]

Sorry to hear that, Does it happen with all kinds of racquets or are they usually very stiff (68 RA strung or above)? Also, have you done any strengthening of your tendons (using Flexbar or physical therapy) after you got tennis elbow to prevent it being a chronic issue?

Thank you! To be honest, I have tried poly in many different rackets. Sometimes me and my friends switch rackets for fun, and they all use poly. Rackets are mostly in the normal RA range, 62-66. I did enjoy the spin and control, but not the pain the day after. As for the second question, tennis is my only exercise. I play almost daily and it would be difficult to find time to do additional exercises

 

[socallefty]

Thank you! To be honest, I have tried poly in many different rackets. Sometimes me and my friends switch rackets for fun, and they all use poly. Rackets are mostly in the normal RA range, 62-66. I did enjoy the spin and control, but not the pain the day after. As for the second question, tennis is my only exercise. I play almost daily and it would be difficult to find time to do additional exercises

Hopefully you and your friends cut out the poly after 10-15 hours and are not using it for a long time. Google Theraband Flexbar - even 5-10 minutes of using it every day can make a huge difference and it could just become a part of your pre-match routine.

 

[Arak]

Hopefully you and your friends cut out the poly after 10-15 hours and are not using it for a long time. Google Theraband Flexbar - even 5-10 minutes of using it every day can make a huge difference and it could just become a part of your pre-match routine.

Thank you very much for the advice. I will check it out.

 

[g4driver]

99% of players don't restring frequently. They wait until breakage or for players who never break any strings, they restring once or twice a year. Volk Cyclone Tour 1.30mm (VCT ) is the only poly I have ever strung where players at 4.0 to 5.0 level can hit with it until breakage without developing tennis elbow and I have over 20 clients using it. I know players don't restring when they should and have found one poly that allows 4.5 & 5.0 men to play with it, win matches with it and not develop TE in a variety of frames all strung between 50 to 55 pounds at one tension, 58M/54X In an APD, and 57M/55X in several frames by several 4.5 players Including Pure Drives.

Volkl Cyclone Tour 16/1.30 String Anthracite | Tennis Warehouse

www.tennis-warehouse.com

Please don't think VCT 1.25mm works for players at this level because it just doesn't. VCT 1.30mm loses tension once strung in the 50s and settles in so players at this level can hit without losing control. When the mains stick out of place shot after shot, it will break shortly thereafter within a set or two. VCT 1.30mm does a great job of telling a player "Hey I am done, and about to break." But it doesn't hurt elbows even strung in the 50-58 lb range and can be played until breakage.

I have listed the names, frames and tensions of these players multiple times on this message board over the years. So VCT 1.30mm is one poly that defies the under 50 pounds threshold, the more than 12 hour recommended cut out point and had five 4.5 men bumped to 5.0 in Dec 2019 using it. Just some facts from my stringing perspective. Happy to provide those names to you so you can verify them in the USTA Database/Website. I have sent several TT members the names and cities so they can look up the players to verify their actual USTA rating, not the "I am a 4.5 level". The players I am writing about are actual 4.5C 4.5A or 5.0C players. I have posted pictures of the frames being strung on my Alpha Ghost with VCT 1.30mm string in their frames numerous times. Tapatalk is disabled for TT now for some reason. So posting pics just got a lot more difficult.

Edited due to misspelling, grammatical errors, and not having my morning coffee. I don't work for Volkl, get any free Volkl strings or gear, but just want to give my .02 as a stringer. Hope this helps some of the players who decide to keep their strings in longer than they should.

Request: If you use TapaTalk, please ask the TW Staff to bring back Tapatalk posts.

 

[BillKid]

after playing, testing several different setups, strings, rackets, catching TE several times, some of my personal conclusions are:

flex frame, + 300g + poly high tension: no problem
flex frame + 300g + poly low voltage: no problem
flex frame -300g (280g), + high voltage poly: no problem
-300g flex frame + low voltage poly; no problem

rigid frame + 300g + rigid poly: TE after 4 hours with luxilon alu power
rigid frame (+ 68RA) heavy (310g unstrung) + poly soft (yonex poly tour air @ 25kg: pain quickly after 2h

light rigid frames (68RA 288g) + poly soft: pain after approximately 1 hour.

the key for me is: light frame = rigid frame (often) light frame for me -280g

adding lead doesn't do anything, as I think the very graphite structure can filter out vibrations, whereas light frames rarely filter.

A couple of years ago Tecnifibre was warning players against using a poly on a frame lighter than 300g unstrung.

 

[socallefty]

A couple of years ago Tecnifibre was warning players against using a poly on a frame lighter than 300g unstrung.

Tecnifibre should be praised for this warning and attempt to educate consumers.

https://www.tecnifibre.com/tecnimag/how-choose-your-tennis-strings/tennis-strings-multifilament-monofilament-ultimate-fight

 

[lucieisland]

Tecnifibre should be praised for this warning and attempt to educate consumers.

certainly, but tecnifibre should train stringers as well, and it should be possible to fine them for doing anything like putting alu power on an 11 year old's racquet playing with a wilson burn 26 'weighing less than 260g! ...

parents go to buy a racket, for their child, and ask what is best for their child, because they are willing to pay the price for what is best ... but end up with strings which will last the year, and destroy their child's arm.

 

[g4driver]

certainly, but tecnifibre should train stringers as well, and it should be possible to fine them for doing anything like putting alu power on an 11 year old's racquet playing with a wilson burn 26 'weighing less than 260g! ...

parents go to buy a racket, for their child, and ask what is best for their child, because they are willing to pay the price for what is best ... but end up with strings which will last the year, and destroy their child's arm.

Pretty certain Tecnfibre won't be recommending Alu Power for anyone. Hopefully, Tecnifibre won't be recommending Ice Code for any 11-year-olds either. IMO Tecnifibre makes the best family of multis out there. As a rule of thumb, I tell clients and parents to stockpile Wilson Grommets when they pick a Wilson frame since Wilson discontinues grommets as soon as they stop making the frame. The price of the Wilson grommets will increase to $20 to $40 for the price of one set of grommets that cost $6 when they are still being made. Tecnifibre Multifeel / Head Velocity works great for beginners and every 11-year old that has used it.

Unlike Wilson, Babolat and Head make grommets for frames years after the frame is no longer made. Wilson pretty much forces clients to buy new frames when the bummer guards get worn down to the frame or buy grommets/guard on the auction sites at steep prices.

 

[Rabbit]

If you're playing poly and you play regularly, I would restring once a month. If you're playing poly and you don't play regularly, you should look into a hybrid -- poly + non-poly -- or no poly at all.

 

[lucieisland]

Pretty certain Tecnfibre won't be recommending Alu Power for anyone.

I was talking about a stringer, in a big shop near my home. they are very poorly trained, and systematically offer their customers the most expensive products with the arguments they find on certain forums.

and when they read 100 times the best string is alu power! they necessarily recommend alu power, even if it is for a child! that's the drama!

 

[lucieisland]

If you're playing poly and you play regularly, I would restring once a month.

brands should be able to write the true lifespan of their strings on their packaging, with real tests to back it up. there are of course on consumer products expiry dates, on batteries for example, an expiration date, on cosmetics (it's a girl talking) a duration of use after opening ....

I think it would be nice (in a perfect world) if it was also written on the packaging of the twine, but the difficulty is that for me it would call into question the true value of these products.

few people would buy a string or the gameplay (for health reasons) is less than 6-12 hours! in my opinion. especially if this string costs $ 20!

 

[travlerajm]

I had a bout of tennis elbow when I received a used racquet already strung with full poly and started using it for a couple of weeks. It was a BLX 6.1 95 18x20.

I cut the racquet down to 26.75” and weighted it up to 365sw, just like my other racquets, which were similar players’ frames (a speed pro and a blx blade). But I had been using Kevlar/zx stringbeds in my other racquets. The full poly led to crippling elbow pain within a week.

My elbow healed completely within a month after I cut out the full poly and switched back to kevlar/zx.

Thd problem with the full poly was that the crosses notched, and the impact of the ball on the stringbed caused more shock because the mains catch in the notch before they dislodge past the notch.

With kevlar/zx, there is zero notching of the cross, and mains slide easily along the crosses, even after the mains wear.

I also developed a case of golfer’s elbow more recently, when I switched to extended frames. I have switched back to standard or shorter frames and my elbow is still recovering from the damage done by a couple of months playing with 27.25” frames.

 

[FIRETennis]

after playing, testing several different setups, strings, rackets, catching TE several times, some of my personal conclusions are:

flex frame, + 300g + poly high tension: no problem
flex frame + 300g + poly low voltage: no problem
flex frame -300g (280g), + high voltage poly: no problem
-300g flex frame + low voltage poly; no problem

rigid frame + 300g + rigid poly: TE after 4 hours with luxilon alu power
rigid frame (+ 68RA) heavy (310g unstrung) + poly soft (yonex poly tour air @ 25kg: pain quickly after 2h

light rigid frames (68RA 288g) + poly soft: pain after approximately 1 hour.

the key for me is: light frame = rigid frame (often) light frame for me -280g

adding lead doesn't do anything, as I think the very graphite structure can filter out vibrations, whereas light frames rarely filter.

By flex frame do you mean <64RA?

because some people believe that poly used by professional ATP or WTA used on their amateur racquet with amateur club level will make them play like ATP or WTA!

and the worst is that some professional silts make them believe that!

I play at a level 5.5 to 6.5 when everything is perfect, but closer to 5.0 to 5.5.

I use poly for a single purpose: to make the crosses more slippery so as not to wear out the mains! ..

For sure and what they don't know is that underneath all those paintjobs the average WTA/ATP flex is ~63RA.

 

[g4driver]

I was talking about a stringer, in a big shop near my home. they are very poorly trained, and systematically offer their customers the most expensive products with the arguments they find on certain forums.

and when they read 100 times the best string is alu power! they necessarily recommend alu power, even if it is for a child! that's the drama!

That is truly awful. I have a new reel of Alu Power 1.25 mm, and a mostly used reel, yet I still discourage it to clients when they ask me about it. Funny thing, of all the 4.5/5.0 players who have tried it blindly in my blind playtest not knowing what strings I had put in their frames, not one of them as picked Luxilion Alu Power 1.25 mm Not a single one.

I will send you a PM describing my blind playtest for new clients, after my Red Cross blood donation. Have to head over now to give blood. The purpose is to remove bias from a player's mind when they are trying to pick a string. The best part is the price. Completely free.

 

[Traffic]

So I was on my own poly journey and sore elbow issues. Also through my son's progression from multi to poly at about age 13 and then to full poly and now gut/poly.

Thanks to TW community, I was made aware of dead poly and its contribution to sore elbows. But that's like 2% of the tennis community. And certainly employees of tennis shops that string racquets have better things to do than logging onto forums.

I bought a Pure Drive with Pro Hurricane as my first "real" racquet as an adult. Wow, the setup played great. So much power and spin. Then winter hit and I didn't play much. Then when I started playing in the spring/summer, I just couldn't hit as well and my arm got sore.

So knowing the impacts of poly that loses elasticity, I've done a lot of research into various strings and string combo.

The problem is, most people start on poly because:
1. It doesn't break as fast as multi or s-gut
2. The Pros use it. Or some other better player uses it

I think breaking strings is a good trigger to consider poly. But one should not play with poly unless they are willing to re-string every 15-20hrs whether it looks like it needs it or not. That pretty much stops 90% of potential poly users right there. Their question to me is, "but I thought you play with poly because it doesn't break as easy". Then I have to launch into POLY 101 lesson.

I have a tennis buddy that plays with an older Head Radical 18x20. I've strung it with Velocity/Cream. It's a low powered multi. Setup plays great for about 20hrs and then it loses its teeth. But he hasn't broken the string and still plays with it 3x a week. At least the multi is providing enough stringbed deflection to negate the impact from dead poly. So he's doing just fine.

I just recently convinced my MXD partner and her husband to reflect on their stringing habits. Husband is recovering from TE symptoms. My partner has times where her consistency drops. It corresponds to play with poly that has lost all its elasticity. I convinced them to buy a stringing machine and play with gut/poly. They both hit pretty hard and with good spin. So I'm sure the gut breaking will be a good fuse to re-string.

My son breaks the gut mains in about 12-15hrs.

One last thing. I think bad form/technique is a huge contributor to sore elbows.

 

[jered]

One last thing. I think bad form/technique is a huge contributor to sore elbows.

This is the major factor. Poly just exposes poor technique. Soft strings allow you to play with bad technique without consequence. When poly goes dead it amplifies the consequences of bad technique even more.

I play with poly at 56lbs in a very stiff racquet with no issues when I'm using good technique. My elbow gets sore when I get lazy and start arming the ball or my technique breaks down. That's my warning to clean up how I hit and then my elbow is fine.