Discussion in 'Tennis Tips/Instruction' started by Larrysümmers, Dec 20, 2010.
Hey Domond, Didn't Mike Holmgren go there too? If so I saw hes also 62, and I know you said you were on the football team there. Did you know him?
Are you kidding?
He was our varsity QB my soph and junior years. I played JV my soph year. He graduated before my senior year, class ahead of me. Senior year, QB was PaulOliphant.
GilHaskell, a coach he brings with him from GreenBay to Seattle was my competition for tight end my junior year. Mike threw to me, called running plays behind Gil, a much bigger and stronger blocker.
VicRowen, another coach Mike brought to Seattle, played left wideout, but was blind as a bat and couldn't catch anything.
My junior year (11th grade), we had two all city running backs, AlAlston and WayneMcConico, both 200+ lbs'ers, projected for Div1 colleges and easy pro material (by the college scouts). Al succumbed to drugs, Wayne played B-ball and inner city playground sports.
Well, if youre hitting a topspin stroke with that kind of swing, yes! You will generate more spin by accelerating the racquet the correct way.
You will actually have a faster traveling ball, however, when hitting a flatter stroke at the same acceleration. I tend to hit alot of flater shots, and play aggressive on the forehand by both hitting hard and placing the ball around the court. I still play fairly consistent tennis as well by using topspin and playing smart shots.
Im really not sure what TennisCoachFLA problem is with me. If he doesnt like the way my stroke looks then thats just whatever. But results speak for itself and I know very well that my ground game stacks up with challenger type players. Like ive said, if I can improve my serve a bit, theres no reason I couldnt get a ranking similar to what Clint did. I will try to keep at it.
I've hit with Tony and his forehand groundstroke is an outstanding shot. Just as he says, he can flatten the ball out and hit aggressively 'through' the court. Tony also has the ability to spin the shot heavily, creating an 'egg-shaped' ball that dives and rebounds sharply off the court with tremendous weight. Whatever the stroke 'looks like' on video, in real life he has great racquet head speed and produces a very, very effective shot!! :twisted:
Strokes do seem a little abbreviated, but you hit extremely well and very cleanly. Obviously, you know what you're doing, best of luck to you TonLars
thanks. where i live we dont have indoor courts and so i havnt been playing all winter. i have hit the courts everyday but monday and i think that my swing is slower, but then again i havnt played much and it has been mostly doubles so ive been at the net over hitting volleys more than i have been at the baseline hitting forehands and backhands lol.
Hey LeeD no rain today, are you playing tennis today?
Nonsense. Many, many players can hit amazing shots when just hitting. Get them in a tournament and things change dramatically. The videos of his tournament play do not lie. So he hit great vs you, big deal. That is irrelevant to how he hits in a tourny.
The bottom line is Clint has much better strokes in tournaments and much better results and is a much better player.
Now back to your delusions and hero worship.
Woah tiger, BHBH is one of the most liked posters on TW. Is it worth getting short with everyone here just to be "right on the Internet"?
Youre delusional. Look up my tournament results, not saying there arent lots of better players out there because there are, but Ive beaten several players or at least had close matches with players just like Clint or better. Youre smart enough you should be able to find it. I dont play futures because I dont desire to travel and be in debt chasing points. Youve never seen me hit or play a match, where as he has. You simply dont know what youre talking about and are spouting off and pouting because most people dont agree with you that really good 12 year olds can beat good college players.
You commented on how you like Roman Borvanov's game, Challenger level player, right? What would you say if I beat him? Id say he has an edge on me but no saying I couldnt win if I played well. He lost the first set and retired at Indian Wells to a player I beat last summer in straight sets. Bottom line is im right there, and I hit just as good or better in tournaments than in a little practice session.
It looks sunny today but Lee already said that he had stuff going on. I'm free to play today, singles or doubles though.
SuperDuy... nope, some NW winds are blowing today, so after smoking a couple of big holes in the walls of masterbedroom, to add R-13, and screwing them back together, going to look for some wind. Serve is discombobulated right now.
TennisCoachFla.... you seem very biased, and very opinionated in your postings. I know you don't like me, and you don't like TonLars, but having such ingrain hatred is unusual for a coach of tennis. Should you just support your points with examples and facts, rather than blantantly attack other posters? Just a question.
Just pointing out the obvious.
You sound like a very bitter person
regardless how you think Tony hits, his results speak for themselves. He's had good results against ranked ATP players. What more do you want? Should he win Wimbledon to make you happy?
BTW Who is this "Clint" guy you keep bring up? The only person that seems to have a hero worship issue around here is you. Clint this Clint that. You'd think he beat Nadal or something
HAHA did he really say that? I'm a freshman in college and have played highly ranked national 12 and 14 kids before and won all the sets 6-1 or 6-0. I don't even play for the varsity team and my school isn't even that good for DI to begin with. I would just ignore that clown then if he really thinks that's true.
This is freaking absolutely true. when just hitting groundstrokes on rallies i am a 6.0. once i get into matches i am back to 2.5. and this is no joke. when i am rallying with somebody before the match they get intimidated because of my ground strokes once we start the match. they will learn soon enough that i am not that great
We can only stretch our imagination SO far...
How about....hitting, you're 4.5. Pressure matches, you're 3.5.
A 4.5 cannot find anyone to play with adlib. He's too good, and needs an appointment book to get equal practice partners.
that's certainly possible...
if hitting partners are sub par, you can't practice big serves, sharp angle groundies, point constructions 3-4 balls ahead..
so development plateaus, if you don't get challenged enough.
OK you might go in fear stokes, and lower to a 5.0, but NOT (I truly do not believe you) to a 2.5...Common....
Oh he did say that lol, he claimed a couple of 12 year olds could not just beat but overpower college students lol. He also claimed that they could handle a college students serve because they are used to seeing them all the time
First of all you have me confused with some one else. I never said any 12 year old could beat a college guy. Show me where I ever said anything like that. The thread was about a 4.0 club player who got beat by a girl, not about a college player.
You can talk all day long and hit hard in practice settings with these guys. But don't say your forehand is on Clint's level because it is not. Your tournament forehands are slappy, his are top notch with great racquet head speed. When it counts, his forehand is better.
Perhaps you have aspects of your game that are as good as his, but the forehand you use in tournaments is not.
Who are you saying said that? Not me. The only thread I commented on even remotely like that was about the girl who beat the club level man. That a lot different than a college guy.
A "college player" could mean a boat load of things. I helped train Sekou Bangoura, Jr. who is on a full ride to Florida. Ain't no 12 year old girl taking a game off of him.
Hmmm, I'll try one more time (this question got deleted this morning for some reason) ...
Have you even looked at TonLars tournament results?
Yeah, stop already. The question is if Clint is better. Clint has wins in his career over the guys ranked 204, 281, 283, 306, 308, 345, 350, 351, 365, 366, 384, many guys in the 400s, 500s, etc. Some wins in straight sets.
Clint has multiple wins over multiple years against the top 200-400 guys on the planet.
Geez, get over it, your hero is a nice little player...he ain't as good as Clint.
Given that logic, if Tony is my hero then Clint must be your tennis god? I only asked the question because you made a big deal about Larson not being tested in tournament play. I know he plays tons of tournaments so your point about playing well only because he isn't under tournament conditions doesn't make sense. Good luck.
Are you in love with Clint or something? I don't really know or care how good Tony is and I don't really know or care how good Clint is. I don't know or care how superior Clint forehand is compared to Tony but for a tennis coach, if you are indeed a tennis coach, then to be doing this is not good for YOUR business.
I can understand if some wanna be tennis coach or was-once-a-has-been tennis coach, as many posters here seemed to be, attacking people like my friend Jolly, who is a car mechanic. I can understand that because they are not in the profession but if you really are a tennis coach from Florida and Tony is a tennis coach for "somewhere in the ******* (the word middle and west is censored (I don't care, because it is the ******* and it is not Chicago)" and you are going off on his slappy forehand then you can't possibly be doing any benefit to your coaching reputation. What if parents and juniors and even adults with whom you are coaching or are prospective customers for you, read your posts?
I know that coaches are fallible, are poeple with all the vices and weaknesses just as everyone else. If you are having issues in your life, I strongly recommend that you stop posting because this will not help your professional coaching reputation. Most coaches that I know try very hard to have a positive, non-angry, non petty, public demeanor. They don't make broad, public attacks against other coaches. Obviously, it is very competitive business and can be cut throat so sure they may bad mouth or spread negative rumours about another coach but they do it quietly, in small dosage. Coaches venom are usually carefully targeted against their competitor to poison the minds of the parents and potential students. Nobody in their right mind would do what you are doing on one of the most widely read tennis forum.
If you really are a tennis coach, and you are not in love with Clint, I strongly suggest that something is getting your panties in a twist and these stressors are making you look bad on the boards. So, I suggest you stay away and deal with your problems because your behavior here may leak / spill over into your professional life.
Leave the inappropriate, over the top behavior to the non-professionals such as myself. We do not have a reputation, none that really matters to us, to protect.
It's just an opinion on the internet, let it go. Anyway, who wants to see me hit tonight? :shock: Kinda windy though, not sure how well we'll be playing.
So who pissed in TennisCoachFLA's Cheerios this morning?
I think there is an easy way to settle these arguments.
set up a poll, get votes for 2 weeks, and the poll loser will forever keep his peace.
on 2nd thot, nah, that will kill all the fun.
I've seen you hit. . .you're just amazing!!! lol
Then why do I keep losing to you?!
Are you trying to become the new Leed?
I wanna see this guy hit. To insult Tony a player that has shown himself to be a good one is just odd. He has good results and you dont know tennis at all if you think his strokes would break down easily.
Would he beat clint probally not but in no way would Clint just blow him off the court either. Tony is gonna make someone earn there win against him.
what's wrong with the old LeeD?
He talked a ton of crap and didnt back it up with anything. This guy is doing the same. He is acting like a complete idiot because I guess tony stole his oreo's?
Deiton would smoke Clint.
Big deal. I have a straight sets win over the guy ranked 204,281,283.
Hah, I will have straight set wins over guys ranked 204,281,283, 353th in the world.
If the human race lasts that long.
the poster wasn't trying to insult.
most of the board gives respect to tony because he's one of the few (sydneyjim) who's put himself out there showing us noob hacks, videos and results, blog of higher level player.
but we must be realistic. tony isn't young anymore (26+) and he doesn't travel internationally. tony is a very good 5.5 national open level player and we've all known someone like him. difference is those players gave it a go on tour living out of a van in africa, sth america, far local. tony has made clear multiple times he wasn't willing to take the financial (coaching $) and emotional (gf/wife nookie) hit touring requires for a ranking in 800-1500 mark.
no disrespect tony. but you can't compare yourself to clint. tennis at pro level isn't just about ball striking. the mental aspect (handling loneliness, support isolation) , organisation ability (languages, visas, airfaires, schedules, hotels, transport, food, budgeting, on the road fitness maintenance and general independence) are all more important.
clint shared a van and food with dustin brown who's just starting to have success breaking through challenger level.
does anybody here believe that after threes months on tour, tony would beat or even take a set off clint? tony wouldn't no what hit him. he'd be exhausted from just living the previous month on the road. i'm sure he'd eventually adapt and be forced to improve or go home.
tony has chosen to stay a high level national amateur. i respect and understand his decision. it's the logical monetary and easy comfortable choice.
most people are afraid of failure at some level. others want to push the boundaries and explore there full potential to breaking point. others happily stay in there comfort zone.
tony knows which type of person he is.
Youre right in alot of ways, in others ways not fully. Absolutely Clint is clearly better than me. TennisCoachFLA however has been over the top and just doesnt understand that my groundstrokes arent holding me back from that level, and he is blatantly making incorrect comments in the face of my tournament results which show I can beat or play competitively with players near Clint's level. Im a very defensive person and thats why I defend myself on here, but at the same time absolutely know that Clint type players are better. He may not like my flat forehand game, but he doesnt understand that I really attack with it, and have alot of consistency with it, and am capable of using more spin when needed. The players at Clint's level do not break down my forehand. They capitalize on having a much better serve than me, where I have to earn all of my points.
Im a unique case to be honest though because I havent had the training or exposure that players my level have had coming up. Im also a late bloomer, and have improved a ton over the last 4 years even, after college. Tennis is basically almost non-existant where I come from and I played solely on athleticism and raw strokes. Thats why I may have form that in some ways isnt modernl but I have played tennis and trained non-stop once I got to college, and have honed this technique into both consistent and aggressive, and at 26 while not exactly young, I move just as well as when I was 18 and am stronger. You wont really find a player that is faster than me on the court, thats my biggest asset. I dont think ill see any decline, health willing, until several years from now into my 30's. Anyways, my point also is that I wasnt good enough to justify touring several years ago, and now I have a job and a wife. While ive reached that level now, I also realize that Im not good enough to get into the top 300 so theres no point in quitting my teaching job to play futures tournaments, and id rather play nearly the same level opponents in the toughest national opens and make some money. It isnt that I didnt take my shot at it earlier in life.
Im fairly sure that if I started playing those right now full time I would be playing better than ever and improve a bit more just from that aspect, but I have no idea how I would do objectively speaking. I have a feeling I would be able to achieve a low ranking after a year or so. As most of you know, biggest thing holding me back other than living in Minnesota is lack of a good first serve. Most people that I have played with or seen me play would agree that if I can develop a good first serve to go along with my movement and groundstrokes, there no reason I couldnt get to a challenger type level. Im hoping that I can do this in the next year or two. Ive made some progress with it this year but have a ways to go. In the past Ive just settled for a 90-100mph spin serve that doesnt get me any free points really against good return players. Ive committed to hitting flat serves now in the 110-120 range now and just need to improve technique and consistency, but I think this will help. Im going to be playing some much tougher events this year and am excited to see what happens. If I win the Us open regional playoff again this year I will definitely go to the national also. I feel like I have alot of room for improvement still and im not nearly burnt out so I will keep going at it. If I keep improving my game and results I think I will have to consider making a run at playing a solid number of futures and challengers qualifying, so we'll see.
Tony looks amazing, much better than J011yroger, who plays the sympathy card way too much IMO, esp. when he sends random gifts to ppl all over the US. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hGIrB1R91c Who's Clint?
Ahhh thanks man, but ish I hate that video I played pretty bad that match. I dont even know how I got 4 and 3 on him considering I felt quite horrible about how many unforced errors I made. Im going there again this year and am hungry to do well.
Damn Tony is buff.
Florida coach dude is a coot.
I appreciate that PP. As we both know these kind of things have a way of sorting themselves out over time. Best, BHBH
Great post. This is just a silly discussion.
The entire package must be looked at. Clint living the life, playing under the pressure of trying to make it a career and put food on the table back when he played the 200-300 ranked guys and beat them in straight sets. Thats pressure, he hit with amazing racquet speed under that kind of pressure.
Tony and his disciples are cracking me up. So he can hit with "guys near Clint's opponent's caliber". Yeah, once/twice a year at a men's open, etc. where he is just showing up and bashing away freely, if he wins he can post a video, if not, he ain't going to travel 2000 miles to the next stop on tour. He ain't hitting with guys like that every week, along with the guys higher ranked that swatted Clint like a fly and probably left him sore for days.
Tony is a nice player but comparing him to Clint and trying to say his forehand is a weapon like Clint's in any setting, let alone under the extreme exhaustion and pressure of actually trying to make it on the tour is beyond silly.
I have worked with guys like Tony, have for years. Worked with one last year who could hit the ball like a top pro in practice and in college, he got a full ride to a top D-1 program. He tried the pros and was going to fully commit. From day 1 you could see him pulling his strokes. The strokes Tony hits in a men's open would probably be taken down 30% on tour.
But half these guys getting all crazy could be 12 year olds so it is what it is.
Fair enough, youve got a good argument regarding the pressure. We are going to disagree on my forehand though, I usually hit it well even when I lose, and I go for it. I dont lose because of groundstrokes, Ive lost because of weaker serving or simply playing someone that also plays a good baseline game. And I would love to play full time on tour and Im very certain I would be able to get a ranking, if not where Clint's was, Id get likely at least in the 800-1000 range. Because I havent done it doesnt mean I couldnt, and doesnt mean I cant play at that level, so we disagree there also. I have a job and am married. Fact is when I get my few shots a year to play those guys, Ive proven it by winning or playing competitively. Im going to play tougher events this year to get more chances.
Biggest thing you should try to do is stop making the rude and unnecessary comments about people. Your post above made alot of sense and I agree with almost all of it, but you dont need to make the "disciple" remark because people disagree with you, some of whom have actually seen me play. Bottom line though with this again is thanks for a quality post above instead of insults.
Never heard of a high powered coach, coaching top D1 player, making negative comments anonymously. That is strange because elite level coaches don't act like you do. Elite level coach I know are busy, too busy to be posting on a hacker's forum.
Are you out of work? Have you been demoted or pushed aside?
Maybe you should stop your hero worship of Clint..?
LeeD volunteered to...
Hey Ton: Are there a lot of money tournaments that you go to?
Separate names with a comma.