rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
If you underhand serve against pomo you could literally get killed by the return.
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Practiced the underhanded slice serve today. HOLY #$%# !!!
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LOL...same old gimmicks with you. You can very well see who is debating your nonsense. BTW...I've been defending the UH serve in this thread and have also advocated how others should penalize Nadal for standing so far. I'm just not buying what Wise One is selling as far as serving love games, because the guy is known to fib quite a bit.
rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
I find it funny how ttps a 3.5 or 4.0 scrub is talking like he knows everything about tennis. Lol.
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rogerroger917
Hall of Fame
Hmgraphite1
Hall of Fame
I'm going to develop this , rather than burn out my retna mid day, and then throw one in every once in a while for the returners who stand so far back.
Wise one
Hall of Fame
Well, I'm not saying (if you recall) that I held serve at love every time, but it happened several times. OK?
Wise one
Hall of Fame
Yes, I have done so for that reason. June is horrible for sun at mid-day!
vex
Legend
TTPS has been doing this for 2 years now. He’s basically a running joke on these forums. At one point he was arguing against topspin lol. Another time split stepping was bad. Then he was telling everyone you could dominate 4.0 with moonballs. At one point pushing was the way to win. 2 weeks later he was hitting every shot as hard as he could. He’s claimed he’s better than 4.0s despite never playing a USTA match. He’s pretty hilarious if you don’t take him seriously. He’s on underhand serves right now because he recently became a Nick Kyrgios fanboy
jhick
Hall of Fame
Are you intentionally trolling? We've already gone over this. Kyrgios did not serve this way for the entire match and it was done as a surprise, contrary to what you are suggesting.
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
moonballs
Hall of Fame
what about side serve where the ball is contacted above shoulder? At least for me, I have better consistency with this underspin side serve than my shaky overhead top spin serves.
S&V-not_dead_yet
Talk Tennis Guru
I don't see any problem with that. Then again, I have no problem with an UH serve either.
EddieBrock
Hall of Fame
Recently I was playing in a match where I got injured and had trouble putting weight on my legs when trying to push up on the serve so I used an arm 1st serve and UH 2nd. The UH was just as if not more effective. It stays low, is easy to direct and has enough spin to keep most players from attacking. I wish I had gone for more spin and tried it on the 1st serve. In my mind it's a lot more effective than a weak kick or a dink serve and makes for a great change of pace.
EddieBrock
Hall of Fame
That's what I wish I could do. Mine stays low but doesn't move like that.
KG32
Rookie
Pretty much 90% of posts here. You can basically guess NTRP pretty accurately just by how confidently people write their b******t here (not taking about this thread in particular, didn’t even bother to read this exact post to be honest)
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Was great to see Struff treat Kyrios' underhand serve like child's play.
FightMeAtTheNet
Rookie
To be fair:
1. most of our opponents are not on Struff's return, speed, nor volley level.
2. Even Struff did not return for an outright winner
3. It's actually achievable for us to hit an underhanded serve near the same quality as Kyrgios'. Perhaps the shot with the least discrepancy in quality between pro and rec.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Who cares about an outright winner. Struff won the the point and the match.
Without an element of surprise it's not that great a tactic but with surprise I admit you can steal a few points.
FightMeAtTheNet
Rookie
Struff didn't win the match because of one under-handed serve by Krygios, but you're missing my larger point.
Most rec players (say 3.0 - 4.0) don't have strong second serves. Some players flatly bunt the ball in, and give the returner a point of contact above net level. Some slow their racquet head speed, and again provide a weak attackable ball. Others go aggressive but end up double faulting at least once or twice every service game.
An underhanded serve with a good deal of side spin should be more consistent for most of these players I mention above, and prevents the opponent from hitting down on the return. It also has the added benefit of forcing errors for more aggressive players who think they should be hitting winners on underhanded serves.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
3.5s, in general, don't have that kind of control You are living in LaLa land.
Maybe it works for up to 3.5. Everyone on my 4.0 team has second serve with some kind of spin, with pace definitely faster than a UH serve. They are also fast enough to punish a crappy UH serve.
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Yet, dropshots usually work more than once in a match?
Why not underhand serves as well, if opponent is standing way behind baseline?
Best time to pull a dropshot: when you are inside the baseline and your opponent is behind it. Its certainly not the case when you do UH serve.
Also other factors: when you play a dropshot during a point, your opponent could be caught off guard by many factors: they are tired already, they are used to the rhythm of the grroundstroke battle...
In UH serve, they are focused and waiting.
therefore, i think UH serve and dropshot are not the same . so even if DS works a few times in a match, hard to say the same thing about UH serve.
Also other factors: when you play a dropshot during a point, your opponent could be caught off guard by many factors: they are tired already, they are used to the rhythm of the grroundstroke battle...
In UH serve, they are focused and waiting.
therefore, i think UH serve and dropshot are not the same . so even if DS works a few times in a match, hard to say the same thing about UH serve.
IowaGuy
Hall of Fame
Have you ever tried it?
The bigger/better your 1st serve, the more effective the underhand serve (if opponent stands farther back).
I have used it once in a while against an opponent who stands way back.
I think I'll start using it more, now that it's becoming more mainstream on the ATP (Kyrgios and Fokina used it within the last week).
If nothing else, makes him think twice about standing so far back (even if you just do it once per match).
Most effective on ad side, for a righty server, as you can put a little sidespin on it which makes the returner have to run farther and leaves him further out of position if he gets to it...
Both my serves are weak so i never tried and probably will never try. not when my opponent stands too close.
a few have tried those on me. but i move pretty well so i got most of those punished.
the side spin might work playing double. but in single, it opens up for the backhand DTL.
norcal
Legend
My opponent in a playoff league match yesterday uh served me. He had a big 1st serve so at the start of the match I was standing pretty far back to get used to the pace. It caught me off guard but I was able to get to it fairly easily, hit a slice approach to the corner. He actually won the point on a drop dead net cord but we both knew I was in a winning position but for the net cord.
After that I varied my return position a lot, starting at the baseline then backing up when he tossed, or the opposite just to let him know I was looking for it. He was a really nice guy and we had a very enjoyable, close match - since this is the second time this has happened this season I think it's just more acceptable since people see pros doing it. I didn't take it personally or get mad. Definitely got me on my toes though!
After that I varied my return position a lot, starting at the baseline then backing up when he tossed, or the opposite just to let him know I was looking for it. He was a really nice guy and we had a very enjoyable, close match - since this is the second time this has happened this season I think it's just more acceptable since people see pros doing it. I didn't take it personally or get mad. Definitely got me on my toes though!
EddieBrock
Hall of Fame
That's kind of the point of the UH serve, which is to be a change of pace to keep your opponent on his toes. At around the 4.0 level I face a number of opponents who use the same basic serve every time and only mix it up between 1st and 2nd. So every 1st is flat and every 2nd is kick. It just seems like throwing in a heavy spin UH serve along with your flat will make it harder for the returner. For me on the ad side my favorite 1st serve is down the T with slice, so I'm thinking that it would make sense to throw in a heavy spin UH that goes low and short to the opponents backhand if he moves over waiting for my T serve. Now I just need the courage to do it in a real match.
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
That would be an excellent way to use it. Be sure to practice it though, faulting on it is quite common. So few players can't even feed correctly. Not as easy as it looks.
FightMeAtTheNet
Rookie
3.5s in general don't have what kind of control? The type needed to slice underhand? I disagree. Underhanded serving is much easier than trying to generate RHS for an aggressive kick. Given adequate practice most if not all 3.5s should miss less with an underhand slice serve than an overhead kick serve.
I think there are two different points being made here about UH serves.
1. If you have a big 1st serve that the opponent is struggling with, and they make an adjustment to stand farther back. In this instance, it is sound strategy to mix in an underhand slice serve of the drop-shot variety. One with the second bounce occurring before or just at the service line, which prompts your opponent to dart forwards and reach out. Similar to the video Hunter posted.
This is particularly useful if you suspect your opponent also doesn't have a good net game and just wants to push your big serve back then hit topspin groundies all day.
2. If you do not have a second serve that at least puts you at a neutral position - or you are double faulting due to conditions like wind, shoulder pain, etc... You can hit the slightly deeper underhand slice serve that's demonstrated by Mackie here at 0:37. Mackie ends up winning his service game using UH serves primarily because of his speed, on the run shot-making, and his opponent's lack of net closure, so it's not like I'd advocating for serving UH every second serve - but in specific instances.
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heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
Most 3.5s can't even feed correctly. Again, you are underestimating the skill required for a slice, underhand serve that goes in with placement and that's without any disguise.
1. Since when you see a rec player 4.0 and below having such a big 1st serve that people struggle with???? I see a few at 4.5 but not below.
2. That video of Mackie UH the whole set, do you really think a rec player can have the type of speed and shot making to win points from UH serve like that???? Compared to my USTA teammates, i am one of the faster ones with better shot-making. Can I beat them hitting UH serve ???? NO WAY in hell....
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
someone bought NordVPN, I guess, good catch
FightMeAtTheNet
Rookie
1. I played a 4.0 tournament in Roosevelt Island about three years ago, one guy had an absolute bomb of a serve, where the opponent was lucky to get a racquet on 1st serves, and never attempted any topspin returns on 1sts. I've also played in USTA leagues where ex-club college guys play 4.0 and ex-divisional college guys or teaching pros play 4.5. Some of the ex-club guys have solid technique, had some training as juniors, or are ex-baseball/football players who have a good arm.
The guy in white in the video below is an example of someone at 4.0 who doesn't have ATP form, but still serves hard enough to give other 4.0s trouble. For that cohort, I am saying mixing in underhanded slice serves is a benefit when their opponent sets up way back.
2. I don't expect a rec player to have the type of speed nor shot-making of Mackie, but I expect even worse returning, attacking, and volleying from rec players compared to Polansky. I've seen very few 3.0s, 3.5s, and even 4.0s be able to consistently hit a deep approach topspin backhand and attack the net. What's more likely to happen is the rec returner will slice it back to the middle of the court, and now we're at a neutral rally.
If it's incredibly windy or sunny and you already don't have a reliable non-dink second serve, I am suggesting the underhand serve would set you up for more neutral rallies than trying to hit topspin or kick serve. Are there 4.0s who have consistent 2nd serves that force returners to make contact at the baseline or even further? Sure. But there's also a ton of 3.0s, 3.5s, and low 4.0s who stubbornly double fault to their own detriment by trying to hit high RHS without the ability to make clean contact.
I've posted videos of myself serving on here before, you can search my history. Unless you believe TTPS can turn back time and change race, you're fooling yourself.
I'm not jealous of TTPS's trolling style, but I think he's retired with plenty of dough and time to spend on tennis, two things I could certainly use more of.
1. Its hard to tell if somebody has a bomb serve from a short video. So i can only say what i think. I think the guy in white has some above average serve. However, its really the returner problem, not the serve was too big or anything. The blue player insisted on hitting a winner off that first serve and it didn't seem to have a whole of spin as i see. A shrewd returner will absorb all that power and send it right back.
Maybe some 4.0 guys here can comment on that. It is a good serve but its not something that will back me off 7 or 8 feet from baseline.
2. I dont think you need a deep approach topspin shot to deal with the UH serve at all. All i need to do is put it back deep on the BH side. That will be good most of the time against 4.0.
Something I agree with you is : Sure it could be a shot to use as a surprised tactic, but to use it regularly, good luck....
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