"Practicing" during a match

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
Tennis is not chess or pingpong. If you were competing you want the other guy to miss. Lmao. Seriously. Just take up crossfit and quit tennis.
If we were playing for money, which I did for 15 years, $5 a game to 21, every weekend. I expect to play as if we were playing for money.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
The rule is this: If the server doesn't get his second serve in, he loses the point. Since the game of tennis is about winning points, that would probably be the first rule to follow. Get the ball in the court.
If you guys are winning why the bunched up panties? If Maximagq would always double I wouldnt be complaining. Its really ironic you guys are upset at the guy practicing because you cant practice.
 
Let's see if I can work out the logic.

Start, 0-0, neutral. You can play how you want to play, so can I.

A. You play risky and won. Result, you win a point, you can spend it on the next risky shot. If you lose the next risky shot, we're back to square one. If you win, keep on doing what you're doing.

B. You play risky and lost. I won the point.

B1. I can dictate that you cannot risk.
B2. I can risk.

The question is "Why don't I "spend" it?" By the way, a "safe" is where you put the money in.

Side note: I don't spend money in real life either. I don't buy clothes unless people at work tells me to, and still I may not. I've got clothes that are 10, 15, 20 years old.

The answer is, I won it, it my my choice. If my opponent wins, he can risk or not risk, his choice. My opponent has the same rights as I do.

0-0 both are free.
Who ever wins the next point will dictate how the game will be played.
You can only chose for yourself, to risk or not. Like chess, you can only move your own pieces. You cannot decide how the other person play.

"If you lose . . . you can't choose." I just came up with that one.
My scenario is simpler:

- Start 0-0
- Play

As you said "Like chess, you can only move your own pieces. You cannot decide how the other person play.": this doesn't just apply when the score is even, IMO. It applies all of the time. Play your game and stop trying to dictate how your opponent is playing.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
To be honest, this is almost impossible to do because I was never in his place. At 9 years old, after watching people play ping-pong for a couple of hours and picking up my first ping-pong paddle, I already understood what I what I understand now.
Yep as I said you cant do it and thats your problem. Really dude get some counciling or some self help to fix your egocentricism
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
Does not compute.



Am I nuts or my opponent? and Why?


That is what I would tell my opponent.


In a tournament, if you lose, you go home.


Who should I be way into? (Let's skip "your mama" jokes).


A superior play would force me to miss. This player miss on his own serve 0-5.
If we were playing for money, which I did for 15 years, $5 a game to 21, every weekend. I expect to play as if we were playing for money.
Yes you are nuts.

Pretty sure you suck at tennis. Players with really developed games do not ridicule players of less skill.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
My scenario is simpler:

- Start 0-0
- Play

As you said "Like chess, you can only move your own pieces. You cannot decide how the other person play.": this doesn't just apply when the score is even, IMO. It applies all of the time. Play your game and stop trying to dictate how your opponent is playing.
Don't try to argue, try to understand. In boxing you start neutral. Until one boxer advances on the other boxer, one boxer will be backing the other boxer into a corner, one will be on the offense and the other MUST be on the defense, putting his arms up a shield and NOT as a sword.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
If you guys are winning why the bunched up panties? If Maximagq would always double I wouldnt be complaining. Its really ironic you guys are upset at the guy practicing because you cant practice.
So you would enjoy a match where every shot by your opponent was a winner or a fault?
I’ve played those types of matches and never felt I was having fun, win or lose. I felt inconsequential. And I have better things to do with my time than be inconsequential.

There are two types of tennis players that are the least fun to play. Those that take no risk and those that take too much risk. I can do without either in a social setting. In a tournament, you take all comers. In social play, if you want to get invited back, get your risk/reward balance sorted out.
 
Don't try to argue, try to understand. In boxing you start neutral. Until one boxer advances on the other boxer, one boxer will be backing the other boxer into a corner, one will be on the offense and the other MUST be on the defense, putting his arms up a shield and NOT as a sword.
Possibly relevant in boxing; not very relevant in tennis. Whether I'm down or up in score, I can always mentally reset and play the next point independently of the previous ones. Coaches always advise to have a short memory. You can't do that in boxing [during a round, not between] because what happens next is affected by what happened previously: if my opponent just landed a solid left hook, my options are different than if the situations were reversed. Whether I just won or lost the previous tennis point doesn't impact what my options are for the next point [although it may sway my decision-making if tactic X has been working well or not very well].
 
So you would enjoy a match where every shot by your opponent was a winner or a fault?
I’ve played those types of matches and never felt I was having fun, win or lose. I felt inconsequential. And I have better things to do with my time than be inconsequential.

There are two types of tennis players that are the least fun to play. Those that take no risk and those that take too much risk. I can do without either in a social setting. In a tournament, you take all comers. In social play, if you want to get invited back, get your risk/reward balance sorted out.
I agree that the MBB [Mindless Ball Basher] is no fun because it's mostly a ball retrieval exercise rather than tennis.

However, against the no-risk player I can practice my controlled aggression, a skill I need even when playing an aggressive player [because I will get the occasional weak reply].

Winning/losing is not the same as inconsequential, IMO. Inconsequential means you had no role in the outcome. If you play against a no-risker, OTOH, you not only have a role, you are the primary determinant of the outcome [whether you can control the point and convert].

The only way I could feel inconsequential against a no-risker is if I was so good at punishing his shots that it took no effort. And I'm not that good.
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
So you would enjoy a match where every shot by your opponent was a winner or a fault?
I’ve played those types of matches and never felt I was having fun, win or lose. I felt inconsequential. And I have better things to do with my time than be inconsequential.

There are two types of tennis players that are the least fun to play. Those that take no risk and those that take too much risk. I can do without either in a social setting. In a tournament, you take all comers. In social play, if you want to get invited back, get your risk/reward balance sorted out.
Yes. If its a social setting and the guy is working on something yeah would t bother me especially if I was dumb enough to ask him and found out he was practicing. I would have told him the best way to practice his 2nd serves would be to just hit one serve. Only one serve and he would lose the point if it was out. It would have been much better than what the OP did.

If it was a league then the more doubles the better.

Feeling inconsequential and being inconsequential are 2 different things.
 

rogerroger917

Hall of Fame
Ping pong. Chess. Tennis. All bent out of shape. I'm hoping you are not Asian. I am Asian. And if you are you are giving us a bad name. The last crazy Asian guy had a 360 spin serve.
 

zaph

Professional
I can see two sides to this. Double first servers are very annoying, they either implode or get lucky and wins loads of points. You don't feel like you influence the game.

However I have been doing something similar to the guy the OP played. In grey old England we have just switched from indoors to outdoors. Shouldn't make that much difference, but it turns every match into a prod-a-thon. Virtually everyone has lost their timing, can't generate any pace and the play becomes a joke.

I was determined not to do that this year, so I have been deliberately being going for my shots, including the serve. Not much fun for the first few people I played, but I managed to find my timing and I am getting some pace again.

If you never try to hit the ball in a match and always conservatively prod the ball; you'ill never improve.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
I just check my Meetup. The guy quit my club after 1 day. I'll ask him why, for my "edification".

I just wrote this, verbatim.

Hello [name] , I see you're not in my club any more. Why not? I want to know so I can get people into my club. [my name]
 
D

Deleted member 120290

Guest
I just check my Meetup. The guy quit my club after 1 day. I'll ask him why, for my "edification".

I just wrote this, verbatim.

Hello [name] , I see you're not in my club any more. Why not? I want to know so I can get people into my club. [my name]
I'm pretty sure you know why he quit. Surely you cannot be that clueless.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
I just check my Meetup. The guy quit my club after 1 day. I'll ask him why, for my "edification".

I just wrote this, verbatim.

Hello [name] , I see you're not in my club any more. Why not? I want to know so I can get people into my club. [my name]
I'm a chess player, 90% of the time, I already know the answer. I just pretend I don't know to see what happens. I posted up his Elo rating, 1391 (1500 is the set average). My very educated guess is that he doesn't want to see his rating up (I have heard a member told me, "People don't want to see their ratings up.)
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
His verbatim response:
I want to hit normally. I'm sorry.

This is like a live soap opera. Days of Our Lives.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
  • Him: I want to hit normally. I'm sorry.
  • Me: How is my club not normal?
  • Him: I need to make an allowance. I want to hit stronger.
  • Me: You WANT to hit stronger. You NEED to hit in the box. What you want and what you need are two different things.
  • Him: So I left there. That's it.
  • Me: Come to an event this Tuesday.
  • Him: For what? I will hithard even if I lost game.
  • Me: Or you learn control. Control is more important than power.
  • Me: Like a gun, it doesn't matter how powerful is the gun, if you miss.
  • Him: I know. So I will practice.
  • Me: Practice with us. Practice control that is.
  • Him: I want to practice how to control when I hit hard. So I hit hard, even if I lost a point.
  • Me: Control comes first. You have to take baby steps. That's how you learn. That's how I learn.
  • Me: Up to you. You can learn control here or on your own. [my name].
 
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His verbatim response:
I want to hit normally. I'm sorry.

This is like a live soap opera. Days of Our Lives.
You were asked to leave 2 MeetUp groups because you want to play with 2 racquets simultaneously.
A guy leaves your MeetUp group after only one try because you feel the need to dictate how he plays.
Another guy expresses that members don't like it when you post ratings and you go ahead and post ratings.

Can you see what the common denominator is?

The soap opera most apropos is "As the World Turns [Around LGQ7]".
 

Shroud

G.O.A.T.
  • Him: I want to hit normally. I'm sorry.
  • Me: How is my club not normal?
  • Him: I need to make an allowance. I want to hit stronger.
  • Me: You WANT to hit stronger. You NEED to hit in the box. What you want and what you need are two different things.
  • Him: So I left there. That's it.
  • Me: Come to an event this Tuesday.
  • Him: For what? I will hithard even if I lost game.
  • Me: Or you learn control. Control is more important than power.
  • Me: Like a gun, it doesn't matter how powerful is the gun, ifann f you miss.
  • Him: I know. So I will practice.
  • Me: Practice with us. Practice control that is.
  • Him: I want to practice how to control when I hit hard. So I hit hard, even if I lost a point.
  • Me: Control comes first. You have to take baby steps. That's how you learn. That's how I learn.
  • Me: Up to you. You can learn control here or on your own. [my name].
Damn that guy still talked to you after that crap at the net? That guy is a saint. Good people are hard to find.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
You were asked to leave 2 MeetUp groups because you want to play with 2 racquets simultaneously
Huh??? The OP imposes his imaginary rule of "must get it in the box or else it is disrespectful to me " and then he plays with 2 rackets? lol
 
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FiReFTW

Legend
So you would enjoy a match where every shot by your opponent was a winner or a fault?
I’ve played those types of matches and never felt I was having fun, win or lose. I felt inconsequential. And I have better things to do with my time than be inconsequential.

There are two types of tennis players that are the least fun to play. Those that take no risk and those that take too much risk. I can do without either in a social setting. In a tournament, you take all comers. In social play, if you want to get invited back, get your risk/reward balance sorted out.
There are all types of players, and the ones you mention here also exist.
I enjoy playing against a variety of different opponents.
And playing crazy ballbashers like you mention is usually an easy win, since they make a ton of errors, specially if you mix up your spins and speeds and slice inbetween.
 

Kevo

Legend
I feel like one of the most important aspects of playing good tennis is learning to deal with and adapt to the weird stuff some people do whether it's on purpose gamesmanship, or just because they're weird. And if you are playing games and keeping track of the score you should play within the rules. So as long as it's within the rules you let the other guy play however he wants. That means having to deal with all sorts of boring players, or angry players, or reckless players, or whatever. You develop the mental skills to go to whatever place in your mind you need to go to to compete with the other player. If you happen to get paired up against someone who is going to double fault service games away then that's a good time to work on some new tricks with your own serve. Try for some crazy angles or weird spin, or whatever. Serve and volley on fluff ball serves just for volley practice. Figure out some way to make the most of the situation. Please don't be a whiner or complainer. We got enough of those already.
 

snvplayer

Hall of Fame
Another partial answer. Who ever wins first gets to dictate how the game is played. I won the first 5 points, I get to dictate that he cannot risk. If he won the first 5 points, he can chose to spend that 5 points on 5 risky shots.
The fact that you won the first 5 points puts your opponent in a situation to try something different to win. It's completely UPTO him how to play -risky, safe, consistent, junk balling - that's his freedom. You don't DICTATE his mind or decision.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
The fact that you won the first 5 points puts your opponent in a situation to try something different to win. It's completely UPTO him how to play -risky, safe, consistent, junk balling - that's his freedom. You don't DICTATE his mind or decision.
Suppose we were playing for money, $5 a game to 21?
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
Yesterday, a new guy comes to my Meetup group. We play to 21. Games are Elo rated. Against 3 others, he won, lost, draw. My turn to play against him. I let him serve first (so he can tire himself out, I'm defensive). He serves a strong serve. Fault. He serves a strong serve again, double fault. He did this 5 times, 0-5. My serve. I served my 5 serves. His turn, he did the same thing again, double fault. The score is 3-8.

I stopped. I walked up to the net, motioned for him to come to me. (The following re-creation is not verbatim, but very close).

Me: Why do serve a strong second serve?
Him: To practice my serve.
Me: Tennis is a game, like every other game in life, is a game of give and take. It is fundamentally about respect. . . I put the ball in the box, you have to put the ball in the box.

He took a moment to comprehend what I said.

Him: OK.

Then he served underhand if his first serve was fault. I won the game 21-12.

I understood this concept when I was 9 years old, the FIRST time I picked up a ping-pong paddle (after watching (observing) others play.) Nobody had to to tell me. You cannot "practice" a shot unless you are ahead. You have to "give" one to "get" one. You DON'T get a FREE shot.

I can't believe a grown adult did not know this concept. I understood it the FIRST time I picked up a ping-pong paddle, 38 years ago, and nobody had to tell me.
This reminds me of the guys that drive under the speed limit and knowingly block the general flow of things just so they feel good when they get some chances to pull up to people at an upcoming light and justify their lives.
 

LGQ7

Hall of Fame
This reminds me of the guys that drive under the speed limit and knowingly block the general flow of things just so they feel good when they get some chances to pull up to people at an upcoming light and justify their lives.
This really happened recently. I was a passenger in the car. From behind, TWO cars sped up from both sides, passed the car I'm in and came back to the lane. Both cars almost collided with each other. They separated at the last second. It could have been at least a 3 car collision.
 

Ronaldo

Bionic Poster
This really happened recently. I was a passenger in the car. From behind, TWO cars sped up from both sides, passed the car I'm in and came back to the lane. Both cars almost collided with each other. They separated at the last second. It could have been at least a 3 car collision.
And how did that make you feel?
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
The only way I could feel inconsequential against a no-risker is if I was so good at punishing his shots that it took no effort. And I'm not that good.
Actually I was only referring to matches with mindless ball bashers as being inconsequential.

The no risk pusher at my level just hits lobs and moon balls and while I can defeat them, it’s not as much fun. It was a challenge at first. Now it’s tedious. But certainly I’m not inconsequential. In fact it’s all on my racket since they take no chances.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
There are all types of players, and the ones you mention here also exist.
I enjoy playing against a variety of different opponents.
And playing crazy ballbashers like you mention is usually an easy win, since they make a ton of errors, specially if you mix up your spins and speeds and slice inbetween.
I agree that crazy ball bashers are an easy win. But I’ve rarely done anything except put a few serves in to cause that defeat. I might was well not be there as I’m just a glorified ball retriever for the most part. Easy win. Not fun.
 
D

Deleted member 23235

Guest
I often practice during matches ( if it is not a tournament match ). And it is usually result in a lower score on my side.
If you get a little money involved you can motivate your partner to keep practicing at reasonable level. Even a small amount will change the attitude.
I play in a club where you must reach 4-12 score or better , or you are paying for the court time. (extra $20-30 typically)
On public courts I play once in a while with a rule $5 per game ( doubles for a 6-0 set ).
I did that for 15 years. $5 a game to 21.
i actually like this idea alot... i might modify the rules slightly....
ie. if the score is 2-6 (or worse), the loser pays for court time, or some small bet, like $5-10 a set (or whatever both folks agree to)
to me, if i'm getting crushed by someone, then I've "paid" for a cheap lesson, and don't mind paying up.
similarly gives better players "something for their time", and/or encourages weaker players to take a really good honest look at their game.

the only issue, is that line calls are bad without "anything on the line", i'd imagine cheating goes up 10x fold with even a little money on the line.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Yes you are nuts.

Pretty sure you suck at tennis. Players with really developed games do not ridicule players of less skill.
i disagree, he is the best 2 racquet player on the forum :p
too bad it's not good enough to compete with most of the 1 racquet players on the forum :p
 

Morch Us

Professional
Agree. But "cheating" is a strong word. I would say "seeing the things the way they want to see it". Yea, I still believe in people to be trustworthy, and tend to think a really good percentage of bad line calls from my opponents are caused by their mind cheating them (seeing things the way the mind want to see it). Tiredness, Laziness, Money all will cause the mind to alter what it want to see.

the only issue, is that line calls are bad without "anything on the line", i'd imagine cheating goes up 10x fold with even a little money on the line.
 
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Deleted member 23235

Guest
Agree. But "cheating" is a strong word. I would say "seeing the things the way they want to see it". Yea, I still believe in people to be trustworthy, and tend to think a really good percentage of bad line calls from my opponents are caused by their mind cheating them (seeing things the way the mind want to see it). Tiredness, Laziness, Money all will cause the mind to alter what it want to see.
it's pretty black and white to me.... if you don't see it *clearly* out, it's in.
so that means there's no way that a ball on the other side of your court - ie. i'm on the far ad side, and opponent hits dtl to the deuce side - that i can be *sure* the ball is out, unless the ball is at least 4in out. instead, what most people do, is see a ball that was close (ie. could've caught the outside of the line), but because it wasn't *clearly* on the line, it was probably out, therefore it was out.
yeah, that's cheating
 
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