Pre-open era was a immature stage of tennis history

Discussion in 'Former Pro Player Talk' started by NGM, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. pc1

    pc1 G.O.A.T.

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    Some male players like Tilden, the Doherty's, Budge, Perry, Laver, Trabert, Riggs, Sedgman, Vines, Borg, Gonzalez and Rosewall racked up incredible numbers also. Your favorite has also and Djokovic in recent years and Nadal also.

    Many of these players turned pro and weren't able to continue to win the major tournaments.
     
  2. timnz

    timnz Legend

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    Sampras

    Sampras in events rated below the Slams and Season end finals didn't score well. His Masters 1000 title total (11) is the lowest in the top ten Male singles players of the Open era eg Lendl had 22 and McEnroe 19 and Connors and Agassi had 17. Having said that Sampras was definitely in the top 3 or 4 of the open era overall.
     
  3. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    This concept of co-no. 1s as a flaw might be true and correct, but it is not because the pre-Open era was a weak/immature era (as you seem to infer).

    It was because we do not have complete and accurate information today, and we did not have computers back then (to calculate a fair point-system) as we do today.
     
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  4. thrust

    thrust Professional

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    NONSENSE! I hope your English is good enough to understand that, as you certainly Ignorant about tennis history.
     
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  5. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    How did I miss this Gem of a thread? :cool:
     
  6. NGM

    NGM Hall of Fame

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    Was it not weak? :)
    So could you tell me: how was it strong?
     
  7. NGM

    NGM Hall of Fame

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    So can you take a little time to lecture me how wrong am I?
     
  8. NGM

    NGM Hall of Fame

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    You accept it or not, pre Open Era was unprofessional in many ways.
    There were so few tennis players in a few countries play for living. Because there were just few of them and the tours was not well organized, they had to go in a group, moving from this place to that place to play against each other like circus coming to towns. Not my words, by the way.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...st-changes-in-tennis-that-define-the-open-era

    "Before the Open era, prior to the establishment of the ATP World Tour and WTA Tour, top professional players traveled largely as a group putting on a show, similar to the circus coming to town. Grand Slams were only open to amateurs."

    Does it sound strong/mature to you?
     
  9. thrust

    thrust Professional

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    Before the open era, the amateur tour was run by traditionalist old men who believed that the tour players were amateurs who were not paid for playing. In reality, the top players did get money under the table, though not much. The pro tour was established so that players could make more money and not be ruled by the dictatorial leaders of the amateur tour. Once the pro tour was established, the top 1 or 2 players were offered money to join the pro tour, which is why: Gonzalez, Rosewall, Trabert, Hoad, Laver, and others joined the tour. It is a shame that the amateur tour leaders would not allow the players to openly make money so that there would be no pro tour, and top players would not leave, and there would only be one tour. I suppose one could call this situation immature, but in reality it was a fight for power by the leaders of the amateur tour and top players who wanted to make decent money. No doubt the ATP tour today is preferable to the situation before the open era.
     
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  10. Phoenix1983

    Phoenix1983 Legend

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    Don't know about "mature", but yes, the pro scene sounds strong. Most if not all of the world's best players, facing off time and again, and having to cope with difficult conditions (often playing on makeshift courts, constant travelling etc). These guys would've been tougher mentally, and better honed as players, than the majority of the ATP tour today, IMHO.
     
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  11. thrust

    thrust Professional

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    So True!
     
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  12. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    C'est vrais.

    Imagine Fed, Nadal, Djoker, and Murray playing each other night after night, week after week. No crying after a loss--because there would have been plenty of them. No time to get weepy, gotta get going to the next town.
     
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  13. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    The professional sport of tennis may have been less developed as a global industry back then, but that is not the same as the players being unprofessional or weaker.

    It appears that tennis had its greatest global popularity in the 1970s.

    Sorry, I don't place much credence in the Bleacher Report.
     
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  14. 70sHollywood

    70sHollywood Professional

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    I think the pro's were on the right track. If I was in control of Tennis, I would have a 2 tier system, with the top 16 in one group and then everybody else in the other. They would then play seperate tours. End of each season the bottom 2 or 3 "pro's" get relegated and the top 2 or 3 "amateurs" get promoted.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2017
  15. Dan Lobb

    Dan Lobb Legend

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    TennisBase has provided an interesting system to rate both pro and amateur circuits within the same list. This allows a more comprehensive reconciliation of amateur and pro records.
     
  16. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Weak? Strong? Immature? In what ways? You have to be more specific. I don't want to speculate about what you mean and answer a question you didn't ask.
     
  17. Fedfan34

    Fedfan34 Guest

    Laver was 5'8. But he was wildly more talented than Ferrer.
     
  18. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    While I do pay my respect to Laver, how do you justify the term"wildy more talented" and do you base that?
     
  19. thrust

    thrust Professional

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    Laver was 5-9, Rosewall was 5-7. They were superior to Ferrer in every aspect of the game. Probably not wildly so, but definitely superior.
     
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  20. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    Forza, Maybe you misread "Federer". In fact Laver and many other "oldies" were wildly more talented than Ferrer.
     
  21. smoledman

    smoledman Legend

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    That's ridiculous statement. Ferrer grew up in the modern age of tennis with all the newer technology, techniques and mainly on clay. You just can't compare across 40 years like that.
     
  22. BobbyOne

    BobbyOne G.O.A.T.

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    but only in your dreamland...
     
  23. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Federer has better ground game, way better serve, footwork and defense are as good as it gets. Only thing I will concede to those guys is volleying, lob shots and usage of slice since that's how they played back in the day. I cannot believe that I even have to write this statement, this is blatantly obvious.
     
  24. forzamilan90

    forzamilan90 Legend

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    Name said players please, entertain me.
     
  25. esgee48

    esgee48 Legend

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    OP is a troll. I keep saying there can be no comparison between players over time. Too many what if's to reconcile. Records stand as is because without time machines, they can't play each other. Due to equipment changes, the players today can hit harder. So what. Let them play with wooden 14-15 oz 60-65 sq in racquets and see how much top spin they could put on the ball or try and hit hard without polyester strings. They absolutely can't with any consistency. Let them play on carpet, slow/fast grass, slow/fast hard courts, clay using wood. When posters make these comparisons, they are speculating. They are entitled to their opinion, but their basis is flawed.
     
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  26. Dedans Penthouse

    Dedans Penthouse Legend

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    I am sorry for your bad thread.
     
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  27. hoodjem

    hoodjem G.O.A.T.

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    Adolescent phase of tennis.
    Young phase.
    Pre-teen phase.
    Late childhood phase
    Pimple-faced phase.
    Not-yet-ripe phase.
     
  28. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Yes you can. And, in my view, Laver and Rosewall were a significantly superior athletes and significantly more talented and more skilled than a player like Ferrer.
     
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  29. Limpinhitter

    Limpinhitter G.O.A.T.

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    Certainly the sport's governance was immature and corrupt is some respects. The playing level of the players was not.
     
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