Pre-stretching poly strings

[blablavla]

Dear stringers community,
as you know, I am looking to come back to stringing, or to continue my journey from where it stopped quite some years ago.
with the increased availability of instructions, tips and tricks one can learn a lot.

so, I wanted to check, whether you ladies and gentlemen are using pre-stretching.
If yes, do you use it only for some particular types of strings, like nat gut only, or poly, or perhaps across all types?
Is perhaps anyone willing to share some learnings? pitfalls that can be avoided? or simply some tips and tricks?

thanks!

 

[travlerajm]

Dear stringers community,
as you know, I am looking to come back to stringing, or to continue my journey from where it stopped quite some years ago.
with the increased availability of instructions, tips and tricks one can learn a lot.

so, I wanted to check, whether you ladies and gentlemen are using pre-stretching.
If yes, do you use it only for some particular types of strings, like nat gut only, or poly, or perhaps across all types?
Is perhaps anyone willing to share some learnings? pitfalls that can be avoided? or simply some tips and tricks?

thanks!

I prestretch all strings, including poly. It pretty much eliminates the issue of tension loss.

I Stretch a 20-foot length manually until the relaxed length is about 7” longer (I pulse body weight with a bit over 100 lbs force for a few minutes).

When stringing on the drop weight, there should be zero noticeable creep. That’s how you know you prestretched well.

 

[Nostradamus]

Dear stringers community,
as you know, I am looking to come back to stringing, or to continue my journey from where it stopped quite some years ago.
with the increased availability of instructions, tips and tricks one can learn a lot.

so, I wanted to check, whether you ladies and gentlemen are using pre-stretching.
If yes, do you use it only for some particular types of strings, like nat gut only, or poly, or perhaps across all types?
Is perhaps anyone willing to share some learnings? pitfalls that can be avoided? or simply some tips and tricks?

thanks!

This is very tricky issue with polys. with gut it is simple, it works best most of the time with pre-stretch. But with polys, it is much more tricky, meaning with certain polys, if you pre-stretch them, it creates this DEAD feeling and almost kills the string. But with polys like solinco, it creates more stable string bed and takes that freshly strung HOT string bed out so it will be controllable from the first minute on.

so i like to know what Polys, prestretch works best with and what polys it doesn't work with.

 

[blablavla]

I prestretch all strings, including poly. It pretty much eliminates the issue of tension loss.

I Stretch a 20-foot length manually until the relaxed length is about 7” longer (I pulse body weight with a bit over 100 lbs force for a few minutes).

When stringing on the drop weight, there should be zero noticeable creep. That’s how you know you prestretched well.

if you had access to an electronic constant pull machine, with pre-stretch function, would you still pre-stretch manually or would you use the equipment?

 

[travlerajm]

if you had access to an electronic constant pull machine, with pre-stretch function, would you still pre-stretch manually or would you use the equipment?

I would still prestretch manually, as I doubt the prestretch function can stretch at high enough tension and long enough creep time to be very effective.

 

[Injured Again]

so, I wanted to check, whether you ladies and gentlemen are using pre-stretching.
If yes, do you use it only for some particular types of strings, like nat gut only, or poly, or perhaps across all types?
Is perhaps anyone willing to share some learnings? pitfalls that can be avoided? or simply some tips and tricks?

I primarily string poly, and I only prestretch those poly strings that I know experience significant tension loss, and the more tension loss I know a string will have, the more I prestretch it. Doing that lowers the tension loss to around that of the better poly strings, which for me and for those I string for, is a greater benefit when compared to the loss of elasticity that prestretching causes. For the better tension holding strings, which all tend to be among the stiffer ones anyway, I just string them up and go.

I rarely string gut but will lightly prestretch it to make it easier to install without kinking. I have a lockout machine and will double-pull multis and synguts.

I think it's more important to be consistent in what you do over anything else.

 

[Shroud]

mostly prestretch even the kevlar gets prestretched along with the poly. Sometimes I don't though, like at night when going outside to prestretch is not feasible and I just want to get it strung. Did that tonight. Playing tommorrow and last time out things were flying a bit. One way to take the easy road is to only use polys prestretched at the factory. Not as good as a manual prestretch ( NOT the around the pole method btw since that doesn't stretch anything) but in a pinch it will be better than not. One reason I use 4g is that even in a non prestretch situation it will be OK, especially at the tensions I use.

I would never do it because I like a good boardy dead string, but it might be possible to do a good solid prestretch and then just string at a lower tension if you want to return some of the "spring" in a string.

I don't trust that site too much but gut for tennis was pimping the jet method which is basically using the machine to stretch things via long duration pulls while adjusting reference tension lower...

 

[WYK]

I read the TW or SF review of the poly and adjust my lockout accordingly. Oftentimes they give a measured tension loss for specific frames and strings.

 

[Stringway Official]

I would like to add my 2 cents because this is a tricky subject.

It is important to make a difference between prestretching by hand (below the stringing tension) and prestretching on a machine (above the stringing tension):

What does prestretching do?

It removes the remaining elongation from a string at the prestretch tension. Remaining elongation only occurs in the first pull so the strings stretches less in the second pull.

Prestretching the string can cause less loss of tension and but also changes the playability of the string:

Prestretching by hand:

When a whole length of string is prestretched by hand the string will need less travel of the tensioner on the machine so it easier to string than.

This has no effect at all on the playability of the string.

Prestretching on the machine:

When a string is prestretched on the machine the remaining elongation is removed at a higher tension than the stringing tension. This means that the string will feel stiffer when the player hits the ball.

On impact the player feels the total elongation is elastic plus remaining.

The difference in strings is in the remaining elongation. A more stretchy string feels more convenient but will also loose tension faster.

What strings should be prestretched?

Prestretching only makes sense with stretchy strings with a lot of remaining elongation otherwise there is nothing to remove. Prestretching stiff strings does not make any sense.

This picture shows 5 classes of strings from our long list as you can see the difference between monos in remaining elongation is huge (0,8 – 7,4 % over 20 kg):

 

[Rabbit]

Hand prestretch removes coil memory only

Machine prestretch removes liveliness in the string a byproduct of this is less tension loss

 

[Shroud]

Hand prestretch removes coil memory only

Machine prestretch removes liveliness in the string a byproduct of this is less tension loss

Sure if your hand prestretch is the “around the pole” method. But if you are pulling on one side of the string only and do it for a while and put your back into it will do way more than remove the coil memory.

I use a 3/4” dowel anchored by the ground and my foot and lean back with all my body weight and pulse with my arms. There is a permanent elongation of the string.

 

[Irvin]

Ron Yu from P1 pre-stretching string at 1:20 mark in video.

 

[travlerajm]

Ron Wu from P1 pre-stretching string at 1:20 mark in video.

Surprised a professional like Ron would make the rookie mistake of leaning backwards with both of his feet in front of him. There is a non-zero risk of a slight manufacturing defect or nick in the string to cause the string to unexpectedly break and send him sprawling backwards, risking serious injury.

 

[Rabbit]

Sure if your hand prestretch is the “around the pole” method. But if you are pulling on one side of the string only and do it for a while and put your back into it will do way more than remove the coil memory.

I use a 3/4” dowel anchored by the ground and my foot and lean back with all my body weight and pulse with my arms. There is a permanent elongation of the string.

sorry, I stand by my post and by the post by @Stringway Official with which I agreed.

Applying extra tension to a short length of string puts way more stress on it than your pull of the entire length.

It is coil memory you’re removing with no effect on playability.

Surprised a professional like Ron would make the rookie mistake of leaning backwards with both of his feet in front of him. There is a non-zero risk of a slight manufacturing defect or nick in the string to cause the string to unexpectedly break and send him sprawling backwards, risking serious injury.

I sure hope you’re joking but somehow know you’re not. That’s exactly how you pre-stretch natural gut. And all he’s doing out for is to remove coil memory.

 

[travlerajm]

sorry, I stand by my post and by the post by @Stringway Official with which I agreed.

Applying extra tension to a short length of string puts way more stress on it than your pull of the entire length.

It is coil memory you’re removing with no effect on playability.



I sure hope you’re joking but somehow know you’re not. That’s exactly how you pre-stretch natural gut. And all he’s doing out for is to remove coil memory.

I am serious. Granted, the around-the-pole method halves the tension so the risk of breakage is much lower than with the more thorough prestretching that I do, but an unfortunate accident could still occur.

 

[Shroud]

sorry, I stand by my post and by the post by @Stringway Official with which I agreed.

Applying extra tension to a short length of string puts way more stress on it than your pull of the entire length.

It is coil memory you’re removing with no effect on playability.

That does not dispute the fact that the string permanently stretches from a proper manual prestretch. Certainly if the string is actually stretched permanently it would affect playability. How is that not possible??

And perhaps on the mains you are right, but a prestretch on the machine for crosses puts more stress than me leaning and pulling my ass of? The string elongates for a poly around 6-8". Never seen a cross elongate on the machine that is discernable outside of monogut zx. And the prestretch function is useless if you string at the max tension.

And if Stringway dude is correct about it not making sense to prestretch stiff strings, why do manufactures do it to their stiff stings, like 4g and Max power for example. Certainly the rep of a string machine company is unlikely to know more about it than the actual string manufacturer who is spending time and money to do the stretching. No offense to Stringway but its unlikely that their conclusion is correct on the stiff strings because if it was, 4g wouldn't be prestretched.

 

[Injured Again]

And if Stringway dude is correct about it not making sense to prestretch stiff strings, why do manufactures do it to their stiff stings, like 4g and Max power for example. Certainly the rep of a string machine company is unlikely to know more about it than the actual string manufacturer who is spending time and money to do the stretching. No offense to Stringway but its unlikely that their conclusion is correct on the stiff strings because if it was, 4g wouldn't be prestretched.

Maybe 4G is as stiff as it is because it was factory prestretched.

 

[travlerajm]

Maybe 4G is as stiff as it is because it was factory prestretched.

I think that’s only part of it. If you manually prestretch a factory-prestretched poly, it will still elongate about 5” in my experience ( @graycrait reported only 2-3” for lux adrenaline, but I’ve yet to see a poly creep less than 5” during prestretching in my personal experience).

The modulus of a thermoplastic polymer can also be tuned by adjusting the chemistry to have added branches or functional groups that limit stretching.

 

[Shroud]

Maybe 4G is as stiff as it is because it was factory prestretched.

It is possible. But was it always prestretched? Or did they start doing it because of tension loss? I am new to that string and not sure if it was prestretched from day one.

 

[Rabbit]

I am serious. Granted, the around-the-pole method halves the tension so the risk of breakage is much lower than with the more thorough prestretching that I do, but an unfortunate accident could still occur.

Figure it this way. @RJYU said that he strings 6 for Federer before every match. That means that he performs this procedure 6 times every day during one of the tournaments he strings for Federer which is every Masters and Slam. Don't you think if it were hazardous or in any way detrimental he'd have figured it out and done it your way? I dare say @RJYU has strung more than 99% of the folks on these boards. For you to presume to call what he's doing "rookie" is at best uninformed and at worst insulting.

But hey, like I said, I knew you weren't joking when I read the post so I'm not surprised at all. The guy who taught me to prestretch natural gut, Tom Parry, instructed me the same way. But hey, you think what you want as I know you will.

 

[Rabbit]

That does not dispute the fact that the string permanently stretches from a proper manual prestretch. Certainly if the string is actually stretched permanently it would affect playability. How is that not possible??

And perhaps on the mains you are right, but a prestretch on the machine for crosses puts more stress than me leaning and pulling my ass of? The string elongates for a poly around 6-8". Never seen a cross elongate on the machine that is discernable outside of monogut zx. And the prestretch function is useless if you string at the max tension.

And if Stringway dude is correct about it not making sense to prestretch stiff strings, why do manufactures do it to their stiff stings, like 4g and Max power for example. Certainly the rep of a string machine company is unlikely to know more about it than the actual string manufacturer who is spending time and money to do the stretching. No offense to Stringway but its unlikely that their conclusion is correct on the stiff strings because if it was, 4g wouldn't be prestretched.

Do manufacturers have some guy pulling his ass off or a machine doing their prestretch?
My experience stringing tournaments is a machine prestretch and percentage are requested, i. e. 10%, not “hey pull your ass off “. And when I strung natural gut for a pro, I prestretched it by hand and not one pro said “you prestretched my string and I didn’t ask for that”.

But you believe what you want.

 

[am1899]

When I read the thread title, my first thought was, “Here we go.”

 

[RJYU]

Surprised a professional like Ron would make the rookie mistake of leaning backwards with both of his feet in front of him. There is a non-zero risk of a slight manufacturing defect or nick in the string to cause the string to unexpectedly break and send him sprawling backwards, risking serious injury.

Actually this way is very safe. If the string breaks or the clamp slips, the only thing that happens is I roll on my back. If I were to stand, there is more chance for an injury, even with the “kickstand” method of having one leg behind me. Trust me, after 80,000+ racquets, I’ve tried all sorts of methods.

 

[esgee48]

@Shroud, factory prestretch is somewhere between machine prestretch and manual full body prestretch. Machine pretsretch is your typical 3 second 10% over pull followed by relaxing back to ref tension. Removes maybe 10-25% of plasticity depending on string type, etc. Factory pretstretch occurs post processing after extrusion during the cooling down period A takeup roller spins ever so slightly faster, e.g. 1%, than the string is released from the supply side. This aligns the structure of the string into something much more uniform and rigid. The resulting prestretched string loses at least 50% of its plasticity based on the TWU numbers. And then there is the full body manual prestretch used by yourself and others. Your method may remove between 50-90% of the original plasticity. exactly how much is hard to say since this method dos not use a repeatable method such as a winch.

I personally do not like machine prestretch because sections of strings get this treatment more than once, e.g. section between clamp and gripper. I rather pull at ref tension long enough for the machine to say "Hay, Stupid, what are you waiting for?" I generally wait for the machine to stop making adjustments for at least 5 seconds. There is one exception, which is ZX. For that, I will pull twice at ref tension and I see elongation of about 14-16" per 20'. Not as much as what you guys recommend, but safer for an old body like mine.

 

[jangotango]

Surprised a professional like Ron would make the rookie mistake of leaning backwards with both of his feet in front of him. There is a non-zero risk of a slight manufacturing defect or nick in the string to cause the string to unexpectedly break and send him sprawling backwards, risking serious injury.

Haha I learned this the hard way! I was prestretching Bab Tonic wrapped around a pole, and.... POP! The string snapped and my starting clamp flew back and hit me above my upper lip. I now have a slight scar where it hit me, super lame and it honestly does look a little ugly...

 

[Stringway Official]

Certainly the rep of a string machine company is unlikely to know more about it than the actual string manufacturer who is spending time and money to do the stretching. No offense to Stringway but its unlikely that their conclusion is correct on the stiff strings because if it was, 4g wouldn't be prestretched.

The question can be: Why do manufacturers make "not so good" strings as in class SXC when they understand about the quality of strings?

And I completely agree: The manufacturer of strings should know more about strings than the manufacturer of stringing machines.
But our experience is a “little” different: We have spoken to string manufactures who did not understand the elongation characteristic of strings at all. We even sold our elongation test to 2 manufacturers.

In 1985 the seo of Gosen strings in Japan came to visit us in the Netherlands because he did not understand the meaning of the elongation graph showing elastic and remaining elongation while this is very standard graph in metal engineering.

And we must have learned “something” from stretching strings since 1983?

And btw: This dude is the owner and the designer of all the Stringway products.

 

[Stringway Official]

In our seminars we advise never to use the prestretch function but to choose the right string for the player with the right elongation characteristic in combination with the right sbs.

S1 for maximum comfort
S2 for alround
S3 for spin playability
S4 for spin durability.

Do not use strings in the SXC class at all these can not hold tension.

That is also why our online Tension Advisor advises a stringclass and a stiffness class:

 

[Stringway Official]

We used this routemap before we had the online version of the TA, it shows how the advise looks.
We used C for the stiffness class then we use S now.

 

[MathieuR]

What I do miss in this graph is "the factor time". A tennisbal makes contact with the strings only 5 milliseconds. (thank god there is no equivalent inch/foot/yard timesystem in UK/US ).
So, even if that same string would get a tension of 88 as peak during that contact, how would the graph look?

 

[Firepandas]

In our seminars we advise never to use the prestretch function but to choose the right string for the player with the right elongation characteristic in combination with the right sbs.

S1 for maximum comfort
S2 for alround
S3 for spin playability
S4 for spin durability.

Do not use strings in the SXC class at all these can not hold tension.

That is also why our online Tension Advisor advises a stringclass and a stiffness class:

So first of all, thanks for all your free online resources and information. Definitely is really interesting to read and interpret the information you have out there.

I am not quite understanding why you just straight up dismiss using SXC class strings at all. Is it just because their total elongation is simply too high? That seems like how the spreadsheet is organized. Wouldn't a string such as the Prince Premier Power be desirable for some people due to it's elastic elongation properties? Also wouldn't something with both a large elastic elongation and remaining elongation be a string that is a good candidate for pre-stretching? That way you will deaden and firm up the string slightly to allow for tension maintence, but still have a decent amount of elastic elongation to not be uncomfortable or completely dead.

And what is your personal opinion of professional players asking for the 10% machine function pre-stretch? You said you wouldn't recommend that function to your stringers, but why do you believe it exists in the first place and why are players requesting it if it somehow declines the play-ability of the string?

 

[struggle]

Where is @Irvin when most needed? He should be able to clear this up.

Can I get an "Amen"?

FWIW, i prestretch all poly for most rec players at a low "rate". They don't realize they don't hit hard enough
to really use the string properly so it's all about "feelgood".

For those that know what they want, i do what they ask.

 

[Rabbit]

@struggle - Amen

I'm not @Stringway Official, but I'd like to offer my 2 cents from experience.

Also wouldn't something with both a large elastic elongation and remaining elongation be a string that is a good candidate for pre-stretching? That way you will deaden and firm up the string slightly to allow for tension maintence, but still have a decent amount of elastic elongation to not be uncomfortable or completely dead.

Pre-stretching is strictly personal preference. I have one senior I string for who likes a 10% machine pre-stretch on his natural gut. He is most interested in tension maintenance. He has a ERT3xx which he uses to measure dynamic tension. Personally, I think he puts too much stock in it. I have other seniors who use gut who do not request pre-stretch (and I haven't told them about it). Of the WTA pros I've strung for, maybe 2 out of 100 request a pre-stretch. I've had pros request a pre-stretch percentage on natural gut and on polyester also....personal preference.

And what is your personal opinion of professional players asking for the 10% machine function pre-stretch? You said you wouldn't recommend that function to your stringers, but why do you believe it exists in the first place and why are players requesting it if it somehow declines the play-ability of the string?

Again, it's personal preference. Being OCD, I had to test out the pre-stretch function when I got my first Wise. I was not impressed with the results. But, I prefer pocketing and a quicker more lively string. Pre-stretching takes that away. Some players like a, for lack of a better term, boardy feel.

 

[Rabbit]

Actually this way is very safe. If the string breaks or the clamp slips, the only thing that happens is I roll on my back. If I were to stand, there is more chance for an injury, even with the “kickstand” method of having one leg behind me. Trust me, after 80,000+ racquets, I’ve tried all sorts of methods.

@RJYU On another note, how many rackets do you reckon Nate, Glynn and you have on your Star 4's? How much maintenance is required on those grannies? Thanks in advance. I love your tweets and you should think about writing a cookbook!

 

[lwto]

IDK, seems to me, what kills poly is stretching it.. like when you play, it becomes looser and dies, like you lose it's memory and when you stretch it, it just seems to me that you have quiken'd it's demise. IDK, prove me wrong.

 

[Stringway Official]

So first of all, thanks for all your free online resources and information. Definitely is really interesting to read and interpret the information you have out there.

Thank you of course that is nice to hear.

I am not quite understanding why you just straight up dismiss using SXC class strings at all. Is it just because their total elongation is simply too high? That seems like how the spreadsheet is organized. Wouldn't a string such as the Prince Premier Power be desirable for some people due to it's elastic elongation properties?

As you can see the difference is in the remaining elongation while the elastic elongation of the SXC strings is not bigger than of the other strings. This means that SXC strings loose tension much quicker during stringing and play there is no trick to avoid this.

Also wouldn't something with both a large elastic elongation and remaining elongation be a string that is a good candidate for pre-stretching?
That way you will deaden and firm up the string slightly to allow for tension maintence, but still have a decent amount of elastic elongation to not be uncomfortable or completely dead.

This is very true that is why it makes sense to prestretch gut, elastic elongation is 4 – 5 % and bigger than the remaining elongation!

As you can see the elastic elongation of synthetic strings does not differ much from (1 to 3 %) compared the difference in remaining (0,8 to 7,4 %)

And what is your personal opinion of professional players asking for the 10% machine function pre-stretch? You said you wouldn't recommend that function to your stringers, but why do you believe it exists in the first place and why are players requesting it if it somehow declines the play-ability of the string?

This is very logic.
Pros hit very hard so cause more remaining elongation so faster loss of tension, prestretching the string delivers them a more constant SBS during the use. Besides they want control and not too much speed from the deflection of the string bed

IDK, seems to me, what kills poly is stretching it.. like when you play, it becomes looser and dies, like you lose it's memory and when you stretch it, it just seems to me that you have quiken'd it's demise. IDK, prove me wrong.

This depends strongly on the string a stiffer poly will not loose tension so quick.

I think that the strategy of our French agent who works a lot with young pros is the best:
He strings only with stiff monos, but adjusts the playability with the SBS.

This has 3 advantages:
- Very little loss of tension because of the low tension and stiff string.
- Good playbility.
- Very good durability.

He goes down to 17 kg sometimes.

The lower the sbs the higher the “stroke efficiency” which is the big difference with the pros 20 years ago.

 

[Stringway Official]

What I do miss in this graph is "the factor time". A tennisbal makes contact with the strings only 5 milliseconds. (thank god there is no equivalent inch/foot/yard timesystem in UK/US ).

The graph shows the slow elongation of the strings because that is important for the maintenance of the tension in the racquet. The fast elongation is important when hitting the ball and then the friction inside the string plays a big rol, it decides how quick a string can react on impact.

In our seminars we advise never to use the prestretch function but to choose the right string for the player with the right elongation characteristic in combination with the right sbs.

To avoid misunderstandings about this:
Prestretching does make sense in some cases:
- To make a stretchy string stiffer, you only have a S2 string and you need to string for a spin player.
- To decrease the loss of tension of a certain string.

BUT: in both cases the playability of the string will change!

 

[Shroud]

IDK, seems to me, what kills poly is stretching it.. like when you play, it becomes looser and dies, like you lose it's memory and when you stretch it, it just seems to me that you have quiken'd it's demise. IDK, prove me wrong.

I manually prestretch and do long pulls at 86lbs. That should kill any poly from the first hit if you are correct. And you are for some strings. Like baseline. It will not handle what i described and will stretch and stretch after a few minutes. But some like max power, prince tourna poly, mosquitobite and 4g for instance do not stretch and stretch in even abnormal scenarios

Said another way it certainly depends on the poly and some are resilient enough to survive any kind of normal stretching

 

[Arak]

My experience with NXT, obviously not poly, but still relevant to this thread, is that when strung at 55 without prestretching, the tension drops to around 45 after a few hours of play and remains there for a long while. I realize this is the tension that I like and I know that I can get there by stringing at 55 and hitting a couple of hours. However, when stringing at 55 with prestretch, the tension only drops to around 51, but keeps on creeping down slowly until it reaches 45. By that time the string is heavily frayed and unplayable. I therefore will make sure to tell the stringer to not prestretch. If you know the string tension loss, and your preferred playing tension, it’s easy to calculate the reference tension without prestretch.
I understand this only works for recreational players who do not need the string to perform at its best immediately, but rather want the string playability to last as long as possible. Pros would obviously prefer the exact opposite.

 

[travlerajm]

My experience with NXT, obviously not poly, but still relevant to this thread, is that when strung at 55 without prestretching, the tension drops to around 45 after a few hours of play and remains there for a long while. I realize this is the tension that I like and I know that I can get there by stringing at 55 and hitting a couple of hours. However, when stringing at 55 with prestretch, the tension only drops to around 51, but keeps on creeping down slowly until it reaches 45. By that time the string is heavily frayed and unplayable. I therefore will make sure to tell the stringer to not prestretch. If you know the string tension loss, and your preferred playing tension, it’s easy to calculate the reference tension without prestretch.
I understand this only works for recreational players who do not need the string to perform at its best immediately, but rather want the string playability to last as long as possible. Pros would obviously prefer the exact opposite.

That seems like strange logic. Why not tell the stringer to prestretch and start at 50? That way your strings will feel good from the getgo and stay close to where you like them.

Or better yet, do a manual prestretch more thoroughly and start at 47.

 

[Arak]

That seems like strange logic. Why not tell the stringer to prestretch and start at 50? That way your strings will feel good from the getgo and stay close to where you like them.

Or better yet, do a manual prestretch more thoroughly and start at 47.

Well, there are many ways that lead to Rome
Your logic is correct but I feel that strings last longer without prestretch, and once the initial tension drop happens, the tension remains stable for a longer while. As a recreational player, playability duration is more important than having the string at optimal tension from the get go.

 

[Shroud]

Do manufacturers have some guy pulling his ass off or a machine doing their prestretch?
My experience stringing tournaments is a machine prestretch and percentage are requested, i. e. 10%, not “hey pull your ass off “. And when I strung natural gut for a pro, I prestretched it by hand and not one pro said “you prestretched my string and I didn’t ask for that”.

But you believe what you want.

I will and do. you are making no sense to make me believe otherwise. you originally said: "Hand prestretch removes coil memory only". I pointed out that it depends on how you do it. If you are doing the "around the pole" method sure but as I pointed out, I was not talking about that. But pulling on one end of the string not 2 like the around the pole method you describe.

Then you claimed. "Applying extra tension to a short length of string puts way more stress on it than your pull of the entire length. " I pointed out that I was getting permanent elongation of 4-6" in most cases, sometimes more and that I certainly wasnt aware of such elongation with a machine prestretch. Read @esgee48 s post on this as he explains it really well how a manual prestretch is way more stress than a machine prestretch.

Yet you erroneously conclude: " It is coil memory you’re removing with no effect on playability". Yet the string is permanently elongated by 6-8" ANY permanent elongation will affect playability.

Now you are equivocating machine prestretch with a prestretch done by a machine. Yet you are proving my point. Do they pull on one end of the string or 2? Does the machine at the factory do little sections? If esgee is right the factory prestretch with a machine is way more effective than the machine prestretch on a stringer. And then you throw in some stuff about what players ask for which has nothing to do with anything. And then you throw in an annecdote where you prove my point again...around the pole doesn't do anything to really stretch the string.

it seems you are making the same mistake on manual prestretch as you are doing on machine prestretch because they have some of the same words:

machine prestretch = stretching done by a machine in the factory
Manual prestretch around the pole (pulling on 2 ends of the string)= manual prestretch pulling on one end of the string.

Clearly that is not the case and I certainly wont believe those equivocations....

 

[zipplock]

Actually this way is very safe. If the string breaks or the clamp slips, the only thing that happens is I roll on my back. If I were to stand, there is more chance for an injury, even with the “kickstand” method of having one leg behind me. Trust me, after 80,000+ racquets, I’ve tried all sorts of methods.

@RJYU , do you ever pre-stretch poly crosses when stringing hybrid, or just straight up? Thanks.

 

[euchoulis]

Where is @Irvin when most needed? He should be able to clear this up.

Can I get an "Amen"?

FWIW, i prestretch all poly for most rec players at a low "rate". They don't realize they don't hit hard enough
to really use the string properly so it's all about "feelgood".

For those that know what they want, i do what they ask.

Can you please explain the low rate you prestretch and How that would affect playability of the string ?

 

[struggle]

Can you please explain the low rate you prestretch and How that would affect playability of the string ?

10% machine prestretch. IME it keeps the string playable for longer as after one hitting session most poly
has now been "stretched" and is nearly done, as in it has lost most of its' useful tension. Poly is useless for most rec
players and for "us" to sell it to them is a dis-service, IMO. Most don't hit hard enough to realize its' benefits, I know I don't.

 

[FiddlerDog]

@Stringway Official

Are you basically saying that manual pre-stretch only affects coil memory and ease of stringing?
Unless your machine offers pre-stretch, the rest of the debate is a moot point. Right?

 

[WYK]

I think it depends on the pre stretching, FD. I usually do a slight one to get the memory out, and just that gives me a slightly different feeling stringbed than not doing it with most strings I have used. Because of this thread, I recently pulled a doubled up loop of HyperG 130 until it grew by maybe 1-2 feet(so three-four feet in all), and it played more stiff than I expected it to. It also seems to be holding tension rather well(but it held tension decently before with only a slight stretch). It's not scientific, but I got some experience myself with it. I may do this more often if the playability lasts. It also seemed to require less break-in.

 

[Shroud]

I think it depends on the pre stretching, FD. I usually do a slight one to get the memory out, and just that gives me a slightly different feeling stringbed than not doing it with most strings I have used. Because of this thread, I recently pulled a doubled up loop of HyperG 130 until it grew by maybe 1-2 feet(so three-four feet in all), and it played more stiff than I expected it to. It also seems to be holding tension rather well(but it held tension decently before with only a slight stretch). It's not scientific, but I got some experience myself with it. I may do this more often if the playability lasts. It also seemed to require less break-in.

Yep. Its why i pull the crap out of strings before stringing

 

[MathieuR]

and it played more stiff than I expected it to.

The +point: longer stability, faster break-in.

You could lower the ref.tension a little. When I pre-stretch my ref. tension goes to 18kg (from 20kg)

 

[Jerry Seinfeld]

Do not prestretch poly based strings. Bad idea. They have very limited elasticity and you must do all in your power to preserve this. Prestretching will destroy the elasticity and the string will not perform as designed. Do not prestretch. Pull slowly. Keep tension low.

 

[CosmosMpower]

Do not prestretch poly based strings. Bad idea. They have very limited elasticity and you must do all in your power to preserve this. Prestretching will destroy the elasticity and the string will not perform as designed. Do not prestretch. Pull slowly. Keep tension low.

Tell that to Kirschbaum who prestretches their poly strings at the factory