Pressureless balls, arm friendly?

[GrandSlam45]

I recently bought a ball machine that recommends using pressureless balls. It came with a few samples, and it might have been my imagination, but I tried hitting a few serves with these balls and it felt really stiff like I was feeling more shock to the arm.

Any thoughts on the arm friendliness of pressureless balls?

 

[snoflewis]

Havent had an issue with tourna pressureless and tretorn micro x balls. The tourna are crap and the tretorns have held up quite well

 

[myke232]

I personally won't use them. To me, heavier and stiffer means potential arm issues. I use regular balls in mine.

 

[tennis347]

They are atrocious for arm health and way too hard.

 

[AJvR]

I personally won't use them. To me, heavier and stiffer means potential arm issues. I use regular balls in mine.

Pressureless balls are not heavier by definition, Tretorn Micro X weighs 57-58 g, Dunlop ATP (premium version) 58 - 59 g (compared 2 tins of 4 balls). Tretorn Micro X are reasonably plush and durable, just a bit stiffer than pressurized balls. For training I use a softer setup (frame and strings) to prevent arm issues, works fine for me.

 

[Ronaldo]

Used to use Micro-X balls. Get better with time.

 

[Notorious_Junkballer]

Quite the opposite, I find them pretty unfriendly.

 

[Ronaldo]

Quite the opposite, I find them pretty unfriendly.

Kept mine sealed in a bucket for nearly 20 yrs.

 

[stapletonj]

if you have arm issues, stay away from pressureless balls. nuff' said

 

[Ronaldo]

if you have arm issues, stay away from pressureless balls. nuff' said

And poly strings in those racquets from the Darkside

 

[acintya]

thetretorn balls - i have them. this doesnt feel like a ball but like a stone

 

[speedysteve]

I don't find Babolat Academy too bad.

 

[Jimmy Hong]

i've been using tretorn MicroX for years with my machine; they are a little harder than the Penn balls i play with when hitting with real people but it's not that big a deal.

Stay away from the Gamma Pressureless -- they seem to be smaller and get stuck in my machine a lot.

The Spinfire ones are decent but they lose fuzz super quickly.

 

[1HBHfanatic]

if you want "arm friendly"+ "ball-machine balls",, that would be the worn balls you use to play games/sets
they get softer and softer as times goes by
switch them out after a couple years!!
as others have said, pressureless balls are stiff!!
the w.trinity ball is 3x thicker than standard ball for the durability of the pressure, so its expected to be firmer

 

[Moveforwardalways]

Pressureless balls will kill your arm

 

[TagUrIt]

I think hitting pressureless balls are like taking a full speed swing and hitting air. That can’t possibly be good for your arm.

 

[Nostradamus]

I think hitting pressureless balls are like taking a full speed swing and hitting air. That can’t possibly be good for your arm.

It is a dilemma. Since practicing with Dead old balls and practicing serves with these will Also kill your arm. I am not sure which is worse, practicing with pressureless balls or Dead balls ?? one thing is at least pressureless balls will retain its bounce but dead balls won't.

 

[TorontoTennis]

I notice a very slight difference, no difference than hitting with partners that hit a bit harder. My wife does not notice any difference. Go figure. I think the experience is different for everyone but we just couldn't afford buying 200 brand new tennis balls every month for our ball machine, not to mention opening 66 cans a month.

Also, the consistency of pressureless balls can't be beat and they never jam our Spinfire Pro 2 like dead pressurized balls do.

 

[louis netman]

Pressureless kid balls, OK. Pressureless std balls OK with gut strings and racket with flex of less than 63...

 

[Ronaldo]

Pressureless kid balls, OK. Pressureless std balls OK with gut strings and racket with flex of less than 63...

Indoor club's ball machine with hundreds of fresh pressurized balls, priceless

 

[eb_tennis_247]

Ball machine + pressureless balls hurt my arm, badly.

First, they are slightly rubbery so they will hurt your arm on “heavy” balls or if you try heavy topspin hits, especially with poly strings.

Second, my ball machine adds a very small side spin which pushes a ball just slightly into my forehand, affecting my point of contact.

A total recipe for disaster. Enough for a serious wrist and elbow problem.

 

[louis netman]

Ball machine + pressureless balls hurt my arm, badly.

First, they are slightly rubbery so they will hurt your arm on “heavy” balls or if you try heavy topspin hits, especially with poly strings.

Second, my ball machine adds a very small side spin which pushes a ball just slightly into my forehand, affecting my point of contact.

A total recipe for disaster. Enough for a serious wrist and elbow problem.

Just know that you're doing it to yourself with the brick balls and poly strings. What is the RA and headsize of your frame?

 

[BobbyR]

Ball machine + pressureless balls hurt my arm, badly.

First, they are slightly rubbery so they will hurt your arm on “heavy” balls or if you try heavy topspin hits, especially with poly strings.

Second, my ball machine adds a very small side spin which pushes a ball just slightly into my forehand, affecting my point of contact.

A total recipe for disaster. Enough for a serious wrist and elbow problem.

It really depends on which ones you buy as the price really varies and you get what you pay for. I've tried the Gamma's, Tretorn Micro X's and SetPoint Pulp's. Gamma was the worst and no comparison to the latter two which are fantastic. I've also tried Wilson Triniti in my Spinfire but even though they last longer than typical pressurized balls they are not pressureless, nor does Wilson advertise them as such, so they don't last even a fraction of how long Tetorn and SetPoint do.

Just my 2 cents. I know that tennis balls are a highly debatable topic!

 

[esm]

Love the micro-x balls and didn’t really like the trinity balls. Probably personal preference... but more importantly, re-think your racquet/string setup with these pressureless balls. Lol

 

[smboogie]

They are great for drilling and practice but you never swing 100% with them. I have a basket of Gamma's I use when my boys want to drill but never for rallying they are heavier and can cause arm issues.

Ball machine can work but you would want to only take easy swings.

 

[eb_tennis_247]

They are great for drilling and practice but you never swing 100% with them. I have a basket of Gamma's I use when my boys want to drill but never for rallying they are heavier and can cause arm issues.

Ball machine can work but you would want to only take easy swings.

I have learned this lesson myself. I used to place the machine at the serve mark and fire from there a proper, deep/heavy backhand or forehand shorts.

A big mistake.

I have to keep the machine closer to the service t and launch a much easier FH/BHs with pressures balls.

 

[Ronaldo]

I have learned this lesson myself. I used to place the machine at the serve mark and fire from there a proper, deep/heavy backhand or forehand shorts.

A big mistake.

I have to keep the machine closer to the service t and launch a much easier FH/BHs with pressures balls.

Have an ac Tennis Tutor with spin that can crank 90 mph balls w/topspin. Used pressured balls. After returning those balls, nothing most players through were more than a rally ball to be placed wherever I pleased. Of course my elbow screamed after a while and that drill/thrill was gone.

Btw, still have a bucket of 90 two tone Tretorn Micro-X balls from BITD, never used

 

[eb_tennis_247]

Have an ac Tennis Tutor with spin that can crank 90 mph balls w/topspin. Used pressured balls. After returning those balls, nothing most players through were more than a rally ball to be placed wherever I pleased. Of course my elbow screamed after a while and that drill/thrill was gone.

Btw, still have a bucket of 90 two tone Tretorn Micro-X balls from BITD, never used

Yeah, I am switched to pressured balls. Will slow down tennis machine “projectiles” too.

 

[Ronaldo]

Yeah, I am switched to pressured balls. Will slow down tennis machine “projectiles” too.

Lucky to used the machine at a club who replaced the pressurized balls monthly. Many of us decided to use their ball machine with pop n fresh balllls every winter for ~$100-150 for the season.

 

[BobbyR]

Lucky to used the machine at a club who replaced the pressurized balls monthly. Many of us decided to use their ball machine with pop n fresh balllls every winter for ~$100-150 for the season.

When I play matches I find I need to use a new can every match or two. Your saying you put them through a ball machine for an entire season? You must love playing with super-flat balls. I;ve been using SetPoint Pulp Pressureless for a year now in my Spinfire and they still bounce like that day I got them. Pressurized don't last a week bouncing normally in a ball machine.

 

[eb_tennis_247]

When I play matches I find I need to use a new can every match or two. Your saying you put them through a ball machine for an entire season? You must love playing with super-flat balls. I;ve been using SetPoint Pulp Pressureless for a year now in my Spinfire and they still bounce like that day I got them. Pressurized don't last a week bouncing normally in a ball machine.

Not counting for any air loss, pressured tennis balls do not get nearly as much use in a (personal) machine, per session, as they do in a match.

If you are using 50-70 balls, and you hit up to 150-200 strokes per session, that amounts to 4-8 hits per ball.

In a single match, you are likely to hit one pressured ball 150-200 times (8-10 avg. games per set, 5-6 avg. points per game, 3 avg. hits per point, 3 sets, divided by 3 balls in a can).

Also, I measured moderately used, stale pressured vs. pressures ball bounce and found a very small difference between bounce (1 cm) and weight (2-3 grams).

I also found that Wilson (Champ.) balls retain the bounciness the longest. Followed by Babolat, Wilson US Open then by Penn Champ. and then by Dunlop ATP.
Wall Mart brand also held up very well.
(Tennis Spin Harry says that all these come from one of the three factories, so we are probably looking at about three main variants of the tennis balls, regardless of the brand)

One thing I did not and could not measure yet is the elasticity under force. i.e. a measure of elastic force under a string/frame impact at the speed of an average stroke.

I do believe that pressureless balls are harder on the arm, give what I feel is a more rubbery feel, while pressurized balls have a softer, more compressible feel, and that makes them easier on the arm at the full pace, but I do not have a physical evidence for what I am saying. (I think that many discussions that we have, in general, are more about the feel then a real physical characteristic of things.)

 

[BobbyR]

Not counting for any air loss, pressured tennis balls do not get nearly as much use in a (personal) machine, per session, as they do in a match.

If you are using 50-70 balls, and you hit up to 150-200 strokes per session, that amounts to 4-8 hits per ball.

In a single match, you are likely to hit one pressured ball 150-200 times (8-10 avg. games per set, 5-6 avg. points per game, 3 avg. hits per point, 3 sets, divided by 3 balls in a can).

Your arithmetic is way off. On a 4 sec delay between balls I hit 600-700 balls easily in an hour as it only takes 40 minutes and that still gives me 20 minutes to pick up balls in between hoppers emptying. To make it easier for you:

60secs/4 sec/ball = 15 balls/min. 600 balls/15 balls/min = 40 minutes.

You are never going to hit 600+ balls in 1 hour of playing tennis. You'll hit 1/3rd or less according to your own numbers.

Even on a 5 sec delay, which I find a bit long, I still hit over 500 in an hour, including pick-up time.

 

[eb_tennis_247]

Your arithmetic is way off. On a 4 sec delay between balls I hit 600-700 balls easily in an hour as it only takes 40 minutes and that still gives me 20 minutes to pick up balls in between hoppers emptying. To make it easier for you:

60secs/4 sec/ball = 15 balls/min. 600 balls/15 balls/min = 40 minutes.

You are never going to hit 600+ balls in 1 hour of playing tennis. You'll hit 1/3rd or less according to your own numbers.

Even on a 5 sec delay, which I find a bit long, I still hit over 500 in an hour, including pick-up time.

I don’t think it is a matter of arithmetic, but of a setup of a problem/calculation, and a limited imposed by ones fitness/arm tolerance for how many hits in a ball machine session, right?

However - there is a big missed point here.

As a matter of setting up the argument mathematically - I would expect that “way off” would be expressed in some orders of magnitude. It is not.

This is a key point of the argument - we are looking at hits per ball per session, not number of total hits that you make per session.

Why - because we assume that the wear/tear/pressure loss of a ball is a function of the number of hits that ball receives, not how many times you hit.

So, even with 500 hits per session, that is still, assuming 75-120 balls per load in a machine, 6-8 hits that each ball in a machine receives per hitting session. (You hit, say 75 balls in a machine load, each once. Reload seven times for 525 hits. That is seven hits per ball)

That is 7 total per ball hits in a machine ball hitting session vs. hundreds of hits per ball per match that pressured ball receives in a single match.

That is two orders of magnitude difference (4-6 (n*10^0) vs. 100s (n*10^2)). Significant.

Would you not agree?

 

[JEDI MASTER]

I dissagree..

 

[eb_tennis_247]

I dissagree..

Funny!

 

[naruto83]

i use the spinfire pressureless balls, still bouncing like it was 2 months ago. done 10-20 sessons with the machine on them. its a much harder ball though. i find it easier on the arms to just keep the speed down, top spin mid and practice the strokes with them.

i only use new balls each time i play with homosapians ~ 2hrs each time

 

[dak95_00]

I really don't see a noticeable difference between Gamma and Tretorn pressureless balls. I highly recommend not string your ball machine racquet as tight and I also HIGHLY recommend setting the ball machine at manageable output levels. If you wanted to play a 6.0 player, find one. Don't set your ball machine up to throw extremely hard with high spin. That's just asking for trouble. Instead, set it up to throw more balls in a rapid progression to test your strokes and fitness. Your legs will get tired before your arm does and you won't break through strings or your elbow.

 

[eb_tennis_247]

I really don't see a noticeable difference between Gamma and Tretorn pressureless balls. I highly recommend not string your ball machine racquet as tight and I also HIGHLY recommend setting the ball machine at manageable output levels. If you wanted to play a 6.0 player, find one. Don't set your ball machine up to throw extremely hard with high spin. That's just asking for trouble. Instead, set it up to throw more balls in a rapid progression to test your strokes and fitness. Your legs will get tired before your arm does and you won't break through strings or your elbow.

Makes total sense.

Do you keep your ball machine at the baseline or do you bring it in closer into the court?
(that helps with a gentler speed setting).

 

[BobbyR]

I really don't see a noticeable difference between Gamma and Tretorn pressureless balls. I highly recommend not string your ball machine racquet as tight and I also HIGHLY recommend setting the ball machine at manageable output levels. If you wanted to play a 6.0 player, find one. Don't set your ball machine up to throw extremely hard with high spin. That's just asking for trouble. Instead, set it up to throw more balls in a rapid progression to test your strokes and fitness. Your legs will get tired before your arm does and you won't break through strings or your elbow.

I really notice the difference. The bounce is not as realistic with the Gammas. Also, use the Gammas for a while and you'll see they just don't last like the Tretorns.

 

[dak95_00]

Makes total sense.

Do you keep your ball machine at the baseline or do you bring it in closer into the court?
(that helps with a gentler speed setting).

I've actually done both. I need to bring it closer because I'm not good without pace. I can handle balls hit hard to me but I struggle against the balls that have little to no pace.

 

[dak95_00]

I really notice the difference. The bounce is not as realistic with the Gammas. Also, use the Gammas for a while and you'll see they just don't last like the Tretorns.

My Tretorns are over 1 year old now and their fuzz is still really good. I always buy the 2 tone balls. I'm just not sold on them being double the price of the Gamma 2 tone balls. At first, I was telling myself they were better I believe to help justify the cost but I've mixed in some Gamma and Penn balls into the hopper and it's really difficult to notice the difference.

There's no doubt that the ball machine setting play a larger role in the harsh feeling than anything else though.

 

[nuclearmedicineman]

I recently bought a ball machine that recommends using pressureless balls. It came with a few samples, and it might have been my imagination, but I tried hitting a few serves with these balls and it felt really stiff like I was feeling more shock to the arm.

Any thoughts on the arm friendliness of pressureless balls?

Well, most folks acknowledge the hardness of pressure less balls vs. pressurized balls. I have a bag of Tretorn Micro X coming next week, so we shall see how it goes. Fortunately I do not have any arm issues.
Per recommendations on this thread, I will set my ball machine on the T and set it to throw nice easy balls.

Should I hit with the Tretorn balls a bit before using them in the ball machine to get the ink and excess fuzz off of them (to keep the throwing wheels from getting too slick)?