Prestige of players beat in Slam finals/semi

[Lew II]

https://www.ultimatetennisstatistics.com/goatList

Here you can see a rank of players by Greatness. I wanted to check the position in this rank of players the Big3 beat in Slam finals and semifinals:

FEDERER

finals:

x4 Roddick no.21
x3 Nadal no.3
x3 Murray no.13
x2 Cilic no.53
Djokovic no.2
Agassi no.9
Hewitt no.20
Safin no.34
Soderling no.73
Gonzalez no.73
Philippoussis no.90
Baghdatis no.166

geometric mean 18.84

semifinals:

x4 Djokovic no.2
x3 Roddick no.21
x3 Davydenko no.43
x2 Hewitt no.20
x2 Wawrinka no.36
Murray no.13
Del Potro no.32
Safin no.34
Ferrero no.37
Berdych no.40
Tsonga no.51
Nalbandian no.54
Haas no.58
Henman no.64
Raonic no.66
Gasquet no.87
Monfils no.87
Grosjean no.93
Kiefer no.114
Chung no.395

geometric mean: 29.06


NADAL

finals:

x6 Federer no.1
x4 Djokovic no.2
Ferrer no.27
Wawrinka no.36
Berdych no.40
Soderling no.73
Thiem no.90
Anderson no.114
Puerta no.231

geometric mean: 6.69

semifinals:

x5 Murray no.13
x4 Djokovic no.2
x3 Federer no.1
x2 Del Potro no.32
Ferrer no.27
Ljubicic no.84
Gasquet no.87
Dimitrov no.90
Thiem no.90
Youzhny no.109
Verdasco no.131
Schuettler no.143
Baghdatis no.166
Melzer no.188
Tsitsipas no.231

geometric mean: 19.33


DJOKOVIC

finals:

x5 Murray no.13
x4 Nadal no.3
x3 Federer no.1
Del Potro no.32
Tsonga no.51
Anderson no.114

geometric mean: 7.08

semifinals:

x6 Federer no.1
x3 Ferrer no.27
x2 Murray no.13
x2 Wawrinka no.36
Nadal no.3
Del Potro no.32
Nishikori no.49
Tsonga no.51
Cilic no.53
Gasquet no.87
Monfils no.87
Dimitrov no.90
Thiem no.90
Pouille no.171
Gulbis no.199

geometric mean: 16.25

 

[Lew II]

finals:

Nadal 6.69
Djokovic 7.08
Federer 18.84

semifinals:

Djokovic 16.25
Nadal 19.33
Federer 29.06

 

[Phoenix1983]

Disgusting that Federer wasn’t able to beat Federer, the No 1 player of all time, in slam finals and semis.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

That's one way of keeping Fed as a no.1 scalp when he's many years removed from his prime I guess. The paradox here is that your intention is to promote the contestation of Fed's No.1 position... Using an analysis contingent on him holding the No.1 position. At least you've admitted the latter concept; bravo.

 

[ABCD]

Disgusting that Federer wasn’t able to beat Federer, the No 1 player of all time, in slam finals and semis.

This was not a problem. He had many opportunities to beat Djokovic and Nadal who were 1 and 2.

 

[Lew II]

Disgusting that Federer wasn’t able to beat Federer, the No 1 player of all time, in slam finals and semis.

He could have beaten more times Djokovic, Nadal, Murray or some ATG from his gen or from the previous, if there was any.

 

[Lew II]

That's one way of keeping Fed as a no.1 scalp when he's many years removed from his prime I guess. The paradox here is that your intention is to promote the contestation of Fed's No.1 position... Using an analysis contingent on him holding the No.1 position. At least you've admitted the latter concept; bravo.

He became the most accomplished player ever (+) by beating players who were not among the most accomplished ever (-).

 

[Lew II]

Would be interesting to do it for other ATGs too.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

The ghost carousel is open.

Buy your tickets now.

 

[Gazelle]

Nice to see Lew puts Federer at number one in the greatness list. That's the summary of this thread for me.

 

[Night Slasher]

Dear OP, as Lester Freamon from The Wire said: "The forum won't save you, Lew. It won't make you whole, it won't fill your arse up. Booooy, you need something outside of this here".

 

[Phoenix1983]

He could have beaten more times Djokovic, Nadal, Murray or some ATG from his gen or from the previous, if there was any.

It’s hard to have any other ATGs in your generation if you are so great that you beat them all the time - thus not allowing them to rack up ATG career numbers.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

He could have beaten more times Djokovic, Nadal, Murray or some ATG from his gen or from the previous, if there was any.

It's their responsibility to make to the finals or semi to face Fed.
Federer from Wimbledon 2003 to Wimbledon 2012 ,constantly made semi or final Apart from RG04,10 , Wimbledon 2011 ,10 and Us open 2003.
Went into 18 final in 19 consecutive slam.

 

[ABCD]

Nice to see Lew puts Federer at number one in the greatness list. That's the summary of this thread for me.

Lew II did not put him there. It is according ultimate tennis.

 

[Phoenix1983]

Dear OP, as Lester Freamon from The Wire said: "The forum won't save you, Lew. It won't make you whole, it won't fill your arse up. Booooy, you need something outside of this here".

Lew was posting this kind of stuff on Christmas Day, when one should be spending time with those special to one.

Now granted, he may be from a country/culture where this day is unimportant.

But more likely in my opinion is that he is a very sad (in both senses of the word) individual, with few human connections.

 

[Navdeep Srivastava]

Anyplayer in slam final is in good form, ofcourse there are some exception like Rafa AO 19, or Hewitt Usopen 04

 

[TheMaestro1990]

Lew, how much do you think about Federer each day?

 

[ABCD]

Dear OP, as Lester Freamon from The Wire said: "The forum won't save you, Lew. It won't make you whole, it won't fill your arse up. Booooy, you need something outside of this here".

Do you have problems with statistics showing that Federer achieved what he achieved in the absence of Djokovic and Nadal when field was not as good as field they played?

 

[Night Slasher]

Lew was posting this kind of stuff on Christmas Day, when one should be spending time with those special to one.

Now granted, he may be from a country/culture where this day is unimportant.

But more likely in my opinion is that he is a very sad (in both senses of the word) individual, with few human connections.

Yeah, I've noticed that he puts too much effort in collecting these stats and doesn't take any breaks. I hope he is not lonely, just a tennis fanatic (in a positive way) .

 

[Lew II]

It’s hard to have any other ATGs in your generation if you are so great that you beat them all the time - thus not allowing them to rack up ATG career numbers.

Is it because of Federer if Roddick, Hewitt, Safin never won more than 17 slam matches in a year? While Murray got to 23, Wawrinka to 21, Ferrer to 19 in a stronger era...

 

[tennis_pro]

If Federer sucks so much why is he no 1 here?

 

[tennis_pro]

Is it because of no one other than Federer in 2004-06 never won more than 17 slam matches in a year? While Murray got to 23, Wawrinka to 21, Ferrer to 19...

Yes, Ferrer clearly better than all of them.

 

[ABCD]

Lew was posting this kind of stuff on Christmas Day, when one should be spending time with those special to one.

Now granted, he may be from a country/culture where this day is unimportant.

But more likely in my opinion is that he is a very sad (in both senses of the word) individual, with few human connections.

Lew II shows hard cold numbers. You are shoulda, woulda, coulda, "eye test", "Djokovic is a Serb and he is boring and has a bad haircut". Instead of answering to his points you comment on his life, income, social connections etc.

 

[Night Slasher]

Is it because of Federer if Roddick, Hewitt, Safin never won more than 17 slam matches in a year? While Murray got to 23, Wawrinka to 21, Ferrer to 19...

You have to be fair to Roddick, the guy went like 32-3 on grass between 2003 and 2005, reaching Wimbledon final twice and one SF, won three titles at Queen's and lost only to peak Rodj. Murray (Nole as well) never had to face such a monster grass Fed.
Andy was a bit unlucky, but that's the life.

 

[Lew II]

You have to be fair to Roddick, the guy went like 32-3 on grass between 2003 and 2005, reaching Wimbledon final twice and one SF, won three titles at Queen's and lost only to peak Rodj. Murray (Nole as well) never had to face such a monster grass Fed.
Andy was a bit unlucky, but that's the life.

Roddick beat 1 top ten at Wimbledon in all his career, and 1 in other grass tournaments.

The competition he faced other than Federer was a joke.

 

[beard]

Lew was posting this kind of stuff on Christmas Day, when one should be spending time with those special to one.

Now granted, he may be from a country/culture where this day is unimportant.

But more likely in my opinion is that he is a very sad (in both senses of the word) individual, with few human connections.

Yes, there is many more non cristians in world than cristians. And there are many atheists even in mainly cristian countries. And there are even Pastafarians like I am who doesn't give shee. about some pagan stuff.

 

[Night Slasher]

Roddick beat 1 top ten at Wimbledon in all his career, and 1 in other grass tournaments.

Competition other than Federer was nothing.

That doesn't mean much as someone's ranking isn't necessarily an indicator of a good form, especially on grass (Muster was #2 in the world and never won a match at Wimbledon, while Krajicek won it unseeded).
Roddick beat anyone he had faced on grass in three years bar Federer. I really think you should watch tennis matches instead of collecting stats from the Wikipedia page and you'll see a big picture.

 

[ABCD]

You have to be fair to Roddick, the guy went like 32-3 on grass between 2003 and 2005, reaching Wimbledon final twice and one SF, won three titles at Queen's and lost only to peak Rodj. Murray (Nole as well) never had to face such a monster grass Fed.
Andy was a bit unlucky, but that's the life.

I disagree. Djokovic faced the best version of Federer in 2015.

“I think I’m a better player now than when I was at 24 because I’ve practised for another 10 years and I’ve got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “Maybe I don’t have the confidence level that I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it’s ever been, I volley better than I have in the past. I think I’ve had to adapt to a new generation of players again.” (August 2015).

The competition he faced other than Federer was a joke.

I would not say a joke, but it was weaker than in the presence of Djokovic, Nadal and Murray.

 

[Lew II]

That doesn't mean much as someone's ranking isn't necessarily an indicator of a good form, especially on grass (i.e. Muster was #2 in the world and never won a match at Wimbledon, while Krajicek won it unseeded).
Roddick beat anyone he had faced on grass in three years bar Federer. I really think you should watch tennis matches instead of collecting stats from the Wikipedia page and you'll see a big picture.

Seeds and draws in fact are made with Night Slasher's opinion.

 

[ABCD]

That doesn't mean much as someone's ranking isn't necessarily an indicator of a good form, especially on grass (i.e. Muster was #2 in the world and never won a match at Wimbledon, while Krajicek won it unseeded).
Roddick beat anyone he had faced on grass in three years bar Federer. I really think you should watch tennis matches instead of collecting stats from the Wikipedia page and you'll see a big picture.

You should apologize to Lew II for personal attack. That would be appropriate and proper.

 

[tennisaddict]

He could have beaten more times Djokovic, Nadal, Murray or some ATG from his gen or from the previous, if there was any.

You mean by attempting to reach 18 of 19 consecutive finals ,or 23 consecutive semi finals or 36 consecutive quarter finals ?

 

[tennisaddict]

@jm1980 Yet another rehash thread.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

He could have beaten more times Djokovic, Nadal, Murray or some ATG from his gen or from the previous, if there was any.

Up until 2010 in Majors:

Federer Djokovic: 4-1
Federer Murray: 1-0
Federer Nadal: 2-6

Federer did pretty well against the next generation best players during even much later in his career against anyone not named Nadal. Djokovic didn't do much better against him either, despite of not having match up issues like Federer did.

I say that you missed some important stats.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

Roddick beat 1 top ten at Wimbledon in all his career, and 1 in other grass tournaments.

The competition he faced other than Federer was a joke.

If it was a joke, why hasn't Nadal been able to beat it?

 

[Lew II]

If it was a joke, why hasn't Nadal been able to beat it?

He was in 3 Wimbledon finals at the age of 20-22.

 

[Tennis_Hands]

He was in 3 Wimbledon finals at the age of 20-22.

I didn't know that Roddick's career spans the years between 2006-2008.

 

[ollinger]

More garbage from Lew?? Is a geometric mean a useful or meaningful statistic here when it includes an outlier like "Chung no. 395"??

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"
----Mark Twain

 

[Username_]

If it was a joke, why hasn't Nadal been able to beat it?

same reason nadal lost to weak era gonzalez no?

 

[vive le beau jeu !]

oh my fed... the lewddle factory also works during the weekends!

 

[Night Slasher]

More garbage from Lew?? Is a geometric mean a useful or meaningful statistic here when it includes an outlier like "Chung no. 395"??

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"
----Mark Twain

Don't think he has an intention to lie (to someone else), he just likes to see the world that way.

 

[The Fedfather]

When you want to prove that Federer is not the greatest but the stats you use as proof are based on Federer being the greatest.

 

[Lew II]

More garbage from Lew?? Is a geometric mean a useful or meaningful statistic here when it includes an outlier like "Chung no. 395"??

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics"
----Mark Twain

Geometric mean doesn't give much weight to that no.395, and there are even more outliers for Djokovic and Nadal, since they beat more players who are still young and can climb that GOAT ranking.

 

[tennisaddict]

 

[Phoenix1983]

Lew II shows hard cold numbers. You are shoulda, woulda, coulda, "eye test", "Djokovic is a Serb and he is boring and has a bad haircut". Instead of answering to his points you comment on his life, income, social connections etc.

1. I have already answered some of his 'points' in my previous posts, i.e. stating that it's absurd to put down Federer, and pump up Nadal/Djokovic, for not beating the No 1 player - when that player is Federer himself; and also stating that Federer denied the other players of his generation ATG status, so how can he have faced other ATGs from his generation in that case?
2. I don't know what your quotations are about - I never said them.
3. I was commenting on the obsessive nature of Lew's statistics gathering and posting - i.e. not taking a day off from doing so on Christmas Day is rather strange, if he comes from a culture where that day is important (most of the Western world).

 

[tennisaddict]

 

[Lew II]

Nice to see Lew puts Federer at number one in the greatness list. That's the summary of this thread for me.

If Federer sucks so much why is he no 1 here?

When you want to prove that Federer is not the greatest but the stats you use as proof are based on Federer being the greatest.

Read post #7.

 

[tennisaddict]

 

[tennisaddict]

 

[Phoenix1983]

Yes, there is many more non cristians in world than cristians. And there are many atheists even in mainly cristian countries. And there are even Pastafarians like I am who doesn't give shee. about some pagan stuff.

Yeah, I get that - I'm an atheist myself. Although the vast majority of people in Western countries spend time with their families/loved ones on Christmas Day, in spite of their religious beliefs. They don't spend it gathering and posting stats supporting Novak Djokovic for tennis websites. However, I don't know where Lew comes from.

 

[tennisaddict]