Prime Nadal vs Prime Sampras

Sampras is a worse matchup for Nadal then Federer is. There wouldnt be long rallies all match of Nadal picking on the Sampras backhand since Sampras wouldnt allow it. He would either go for winners early in points or move forward on the first short ball, which is what you have to do vs Nadal. Part of the reason Federer is owned by Nadal is tactically he is too stubborn and continues to do alot of wrong things over and over. Even on clay he be more competitive than he was with better tactics.

Sampras also has a more dominant serve than Federer which Nadal would have a harder time returning (and he has a hard time with even Federer's serve often), definitely a better 2nd serve which is where Nadal gets into the Federer service games, and Sampras is a much better volleyer than Federer and would be able to finish alot of those points at the net that Federer sometimes fails to do vs Nadal.

i agree with this. Also people need to remember Petros is actually shorter than Federer. Some people here act like he was the Karlovic of the 90s with nothing more than a huge serve. He had an all court game where his serve was just one element of the entire package. In terms of the modern game, what would hurt him most is the slower surface / ball combo. That would be the biggest risk to getting passed. First volley bouncing higher and not moving through the court fast enough. Petro’s game was never about being flawless at net and never getting passed though. It was about keeping pressure on his opponent and not giving them rhythm. So I agree that Petros would be a worse matchup for Nadal than Federer.

Why even argue about two players that are not in the top tier of all time greats?
image.php
image.php
image.php
 
Last edited:
Aren't Pete and Fed both 6 foot 1 inches? And around the same weight?

they're close i'd put Federer a tad taller maybe ½” or so, but the point is that you don't consider that height a point where the physical attributes of the player are what’s dominating their game. In the context that people refer to Petros’ serve, that it somehow diminishes his skill level and in the same way guys like Isner and Karlovic are gifted by their size.
 
Pete would kill Nadal at the USO and the old Wimbledon and Aussie Open. On the present day lame ass surfaces, here is what my guess is:

AO: Pete 6-4
FO: Rafa 10-0
W: Pete 6-4
USO: Pete 8-2 (I am hoping the 2011 USO surface is an aberration)

I like both players. I do agree with you. Sampras would probably kill Rafa assuming they are same age etc.
 
Two very contrasting styles. One likes to bring the heat and end points as soon as possible, while the other grinds you into dirt with high-arcing topspin. In a battle of attrition on clay, or any other slow surface the winner is obvious. But on a faster court, who knows?
 
I'll try to avoid all of the stereotypes inevitably associated with this type of thread. You know what I'm talking about, fast court vs slow court, ending points as quick as possible vs grinding it out. Its not only journalists who can be lazy and unimaginative, that can apply to posters on internet forums as well.

Well what are the strengths of these two players? I'll start with Sampras first as he's the one who's retired: Just to reiterate, we are talkning about two guys who would approach the game against each other if they were around the age of 25.

Sampras strengths?

• The serve – obviously

• Movement across the baseline - one of the best movers across the 1990s until August 1999 when he did his back in just before the US OPen and was never quite the same player in the early 2000s


• Volley skills – improved considerably throughout the 1990s

• 2nd serve – one of the best, just thinking of Murray’s powderpuff 2nd serve today, no wonder Nadal has a field day.....


• When returning, putting pressure on the opponents 2nd serve, something that isn’t talked about much, but Sampras was one of the very best at attacking the 2nd serve or making something happen

Nadal’s strengths?

• Movement – one of the very best movers across the baseline today without question. Not smooth like a Sampras obviously but more than effective

• Stamina, always looking to keep opponents out there as long as possible


• Getting to an opponent’s one hand backhand, just ask Federer...

• Slowing the game down, which is always frustrating for quick players

• Great at hitting passing shots on the run. Ironically also one of Sampras’ strengths against the likes of Becker and Rafter back in the attacking days. The difference being that Nadal wont be venturing to net much anyway.

Sampras’ weaknesses?

• Claycourt tennis. Despite being one of the movers across the baseline, his movement on clay left a lot to be desired. He said he was comfortable on clay in the early years, good results suggest that but when things didn’t go to plan, it got into his head and he talked himself out of giving more on that surface.

• One hand backhand, became more of a liability once his movement declined, which is quite normal. His backhand was extremely good when he crouched, bent his knees and stepped into the shot. When his movement declined in 2000 onwards, he was more inclined to stand up on the shot, thus more errors.


Nadal’s weaknesses?

• I don’t think his return of serve is the best, he stands so far back inviting the server to exploit angles, something Federer has done very well over the years, especially out wide to Nada’s backhand on the deuce court

• Nadal does not like to play big servers. Just listen to his comments after playing the likes of Giles Muller, John Isner or the South African chap at Wimbledon. And yet, Nadal never played an attacking player with superior talent, as opposed to a journeymen.

How they would match up?

First of all, Sampras won 36 titles on hardcourt. So I want to get this out of the way immediately. He won two Aussie Opens in 1994 and 1997 on slow high bouncing rebound ace courts. Those courts were higher bouncing than the current plexicushion. He also got to the final in 1995 and the semifinal in 1993, so an excellent record in his early to mid 20s (remember this is prime time). Sampras also won Miami 3 times and that has ALWAYS been a high bouncing medium pace court and I understand the balls can get quite heavy because of humidity. Mr Sampras has always said (for those who can actually be bothered to listen) that he preferred medium pace courts where he could set up his shots and swing away, he had a very long swing on his strokes. Sampras was an extremely good medium paced court player on hardcourts. Therefore Nadal does not have any distinctive advantage on slow medium hardcourts despite what I’ve been reading here.

Sampras’ strength of the V play will work well against Nadal, Nadal stands so far back it sets up the wide serve and then the volley or forehand into the open court – one of Sampras’ specialities throughout his career. Sampras’ variety on serve would also be interesting to watch. Using Kuerten as a guide, Kuerten didn’t like the power so stood far back, which meant that Sampras used an incredible variety of slice and kick serves, serves into the body and all sorts of different pace, 120 mph 2nd serves, 95 mph 1st serves, 132 mph 1st serves, swinging serves into the body, slice serves on the ad court going away from Nadal at pace ( a lost art today in the mens game unfortunately. ) At this stage of Sampras’ career (early to mid 20s) he also liked to stay back and rally on serve, he had confidence in his baseline game. He has the forehand to trouble Nadal, the net play and the use of the backhand slice. Nadal would work on the Sampras’ backhand inevitably but at this stage its not a liability so we have to remember that.

I think two things where Sampras plays the backhand differently to Federer. The first is Sampras is prepared to consistently loop his backhand higher over the net with topspin, more like Amelie Mauresmo against Clijsters, he used it well against Agassi, that topspin backhand jumps up high on the two hander and whilst everyone focuses on the one hander, two handers tend not to like high backhands either, Agassi had problems against Sampras with that shot getting high on him. Clijsters never liked Mauresmo doing that to her either. The second thing is the use of the slice, is it the American slice? Where you bring the ball from up high with a downward tracjectory, which can be used as part of the rally or to keep the ball low and attack the net? I think that’s one advantage Sampras would have. Whilst we assume Nadal is the great baseliner, we have to remember Sampras held his own against Chang, Courier, Agassi and others on all types of courts so its obviously not a foregone conclusion in the baseline rallies, Sampras just has so much power from the back.

On clay Nadal is clear favourite probably to win every match. Sampras will and has argued he beat all the best claycourters of that era at the French, the likes of Courier, Muster and Brugera and Rios. His problem was that he couldn’t win 7 matches in a row on that surface, his stamina probably being a factor. So on a one off Sampras might be able to get a win somewhere on clay but it would be rare.

On grass, I think Sampras’ firepower and his brains has the edge. When I say brains, he was a great tactical thinker. I just keep thinking about Nadal’s comments after matches with the likes of Muller and then his supposed comments of Sampras and Ivanisevic at Wimbledon. Clearly Sampras on grass has 20 times the talent of Giles Muller, just think back to what he did to an in form Agassi in the 1999 Wimbledon final when he comprehensively outplayed Agassi in the baseline rallies. His use of the serve out wide on each court in all four corners of the box plus the serve into the body would be the decisive factor. Nadal does not have the returning skills of a Djokovic, who can take the ball early on the rise consistently. The one reason he’s now dominating Nadal. Sampras had problems against Hewitt who did the same thing. Nadal doesn’t play that type of game.

And that leads nicely to my conclusion, Sampras always talks about taking time away, Djokovic has shown what happens to Nadal when that philosophy is applied. With Sampras’ big serve and big groundstrokes and movement, I see him having a distinct edge on all types of hardcourt (pacewise), grass and indoor carpet (boy would Nadal hate indoor carpet!!!). Nadal is the master on clay. Nadal is a great player but not a natural talent, if you have the right tactics and power you can take him.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
But we're not talking overall H2H, we're talking prime vs prime. A lot of the Federer vs Nadal H2H is about their mismatched primes.

Prime vs Prime, Federer holds the advantage over Nadal on every surface but clay.

There is no evidence of your last statement. Federer and Nadal are 4-4 on hard courts, despite 5 of the 8 matches (therefore more) where in Federer's prime and not Nadal's. Nadal leads by a whopping 4-1 on outdoor hard courts. So based on this evidence prime vs prime Nadal has the head to head edge on hard courts. Of course Federer is many times better vs the field on hard courts than Nadal, but that is another topic.

As for grass 2 of the matches were in Federer's prime and 1 was in Nadal's and each won when they should have. If they had played at the last 2 Wimbledons for instance Nadal would now be leading 3-2 on the basis of having one more match in his prime than Federer just as Federer currently does, so prime vs prime (which as how you are determining it) they are basically even on grass. With Nadal probably ahead on hard courts.
 
Sounds like you're defining Nadal's prime a lot more restrictively than most people would. Natural for a ******** though, I suppose.
 
Sounds like you're defining Nadal's prime a lot more restrictively than most people would. Natural for a ******** though, I suppose.

Just following the cues of ****s who label Federer "way past his prime" at only 26 despite being a late bloomer, LOL! If 2006 and 2007 count as Nadal's prime despite not even making a hard court slam semi and being owned by the likes of Berdych, Youzhny, and Blake at that point, then 2008 and 2009 would certainly count as Federer's. He made 7 of 8 slam finals those years.
 
Just following the cues of ****s who label Federer "way past his prime" at only 26 despite being a late bloomer, LOL! If 2006 and 2007 count as Nadal's prime despite not even making a hard court slam semi and being owned by the likes of Berdych, Youzhny, and Blake at that point, then 2008 and 2009 would certainly count as Federer's. He made 7 of 8 slam finals those years.

Good post man.
 
When I see a question about "Prime X vs Prime Y", to me it means who would win when both those players were playing the best tennis of their career. Nobody would claim Federer was playing his best tennis in 2008 or 2009.

Personally I'd argue you never had a time when prime Nadal played prime Federer. You would have to think the closest we come to a period when both players were playing their best tennis at the same time was early 2007. Federer had just come off a stellar 2006 and Nadal was still on his record-breaking clay court run.

Prior to that, Nadal was probably a little young for comparisons to be fair to him. After that, Nadal did his knee and took quite a while to get back to 100%. When he did, Federer had lost a step or two from the player he was a year or so previously.
 
Last edited:
Why even argue about two players that are not in the top tier of all time greats?

Pathetic erroneous statement... Applying your logic, Sampras had the 2nd most GS's, most weeks at #1 consecutively... You say. "stats don't lie" and then you throw garbage like this out there??. Sampras is arguably the GOAT
 
Pathetic erroneous statement... Applying your logic, Sampras had the 2nd most GS's, most weeks at #1 consecutively... You say. "stats don't lie" and then you throw garbage like this out there??. Sampras is arguably the GOAT

Sampras did not have the most weeks at #1 consecutively. Not even close. Federer destroys him in that category. And most weeks at #1 overall, Sampras is only ahead by a pathetic 1 week. The data do not lie. Sampras is nothing compared to Roger Federer.
 
Sampras did not have the most weeks at #1 consecutively. Not even close. Federer destroys him in that category. And most weeks at #1 overall, Sampras is only ahead by a pathetic 1 week. The data do not lie. Sampras is nothing compared to Roger Federer.

Absolutely. After all, 286 weeks at number 1 is nothing. Seven Wimbledon titles is nothing, 5 US Open titles is nothing, 5 Year end championships? nothing. A winning record against all of his very important rivals? nothing. 64 titles? nothing.

Hmm...Federer must be even more pathetic for not being number one for an extra two weeks in his career.....

Don't you just love internet forums eh :wink:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Absolutely. After all, 286 weeks at number 1 is nothing. Seven Wimbledon titles is nothing, 5 US Open titles is nothing, 5 Year end championships? nothing. A winning record against all of his very important rivals? nothing. 64 titles? nothing.

Hmm...Federer must be even more pathetic for not being number one for an extra two weeks in his career.....

Don't you just love internet forums eh :wink:

I know... That Djokforthewin guy cracks me up.... Biggest ****** on this board and most irrational to by a mile
 
Sampras did not have the most weeks at #1 consecutively. Not even close. Federer destroys him in that category. And most weeks at #1 overall, Sampras is only ahead by a pathetic 1 week. The data do not lie. Sampras is nothing compared to Roger Federer.

Hahaha. Yea ok! And Fed had a better single season then Djoker because, according to you, the data MUST BE lying!!,
 
Absolutely. After all, 286 weeks at number 1 is nothing. Seven Wimbledon titles is nothing, 5 US Open titles is nothing, 5 Year end championships? nothing. A winning record against all of his very important rivals? nothing. 64 titles? nothing.

Hmm...Federer must be even more pathetic for not being number one for an extra two weeks in his career.....

Don't you just love internet forums eh :wink:

Wait a second you can't use the word 'nothing' out of the context I used it in. Of course it sounds distorted then. I said 'nothing compared to Federer'. Line up all of their records, and the meaning of nothing will become more apparent to you young one.
 
Wait a second you can't use the word 'nothing' out of the context I used it in. Of course it sounds distorted then. I said 'nothing compared to Federer'. Line up all of their records, and the meaning of nothing will become more apparent to you young one.

Erm, yes....

286 weeks is more than 285? 5 US opens = 5 US Opens? 7 Wimbledons is better than 6 Wimbledons? Six years as year number 1 is better than 5 years as year end number1?

I hope you see the point I'm trying to make. The records are obviously very significant and can't be dismissed out of hand, considering how hard Mr Federer has worked to match those records, break some records, equal others and not quite overtake other records.

But then again, I'm dealing with people with internet forums. And, as was mentioned in the news this week here in the UK, teachers in schools are worried about the effects the internet can have on young people because reality can get distorted.

People who go round dismissing records as if they are "nothing", considering the majority of professionals can't get anywhere near those figures, well you see what I mean.

Sigh, tennis forums are full of nutters ;)
 
Wait a minute, I thought this was supposed to be about prime Nadal vs prime Sampras, how did Federer get entangled in this?
 
Erm, yes....

286 weeks is more than 285? 5 US opens = 5 US Opens? 7 Wimbledons is better than 6 Wimbledons? Six years as year number 1 is better than 5 years as year end number1?

I hope you see the point I'm trying to make. The records are obviously very significant and can't be dismissed out of hand, considering how hard Mr Federer has worked to match those records, break some records, equal others and not quite overtake other records.

But then again, I'm dealing with people with internet forums. And, as was mentioned in the news this week here in the UK, teachers in schools are worried about the effects the internet can have on young people because reality can get distorted.

People who go round dismissing records as if they are "nothing", considering the majority of professionals can't get anywhere near those figures, well you see what I mean.

Sigh, tennis forums are full of nutters ;)

I'm not dismissing anything. The answer lies in how many you could list. 3 records in which Sampras leads by one! :) And do note that Sampras' career is over, Federer's not. There's the rub child.

p.s. I'm not young. Keep talking and I'll take you over my knee.
 
Last edited:
I'm not dismissing anything. The answer lies in how many you could list. 3 records in which Sampras leads by one! :) And do note that Sampras' career is over, Federer's not. There's the rub child.

p.s. I'm not young. Keep talking and I'll take you over my knee.

You act like one though, which is an issue.
 
Anyway, I think it best if I leave the lunatics to run the asylum. It's never a good idea to get involved in threads like this, its a waste of time to be frank.
 
Back
Top