PRIME Versions of WTA VS. Current Field

[LDVTennis]

Serena looked fully developed in 1999. OK, not fat, if you mean that ...

She was already a big girl then too, but you are right she hadn't fully developed. LOL.

Whatever the case, the clip I cited was instructive because it shows how Graf's forehand could work against anybody.

Serena could run even faster then than she does now and yet she was not even in the picture to defend against Steffi's forehand.

 

[Tanya]

Serena looked fully developed in 1999. OK, not fat, if you mean that ...

BTW, she won 5 tournaments in 1999.
In which years did she win more?
Right, only in her brilliant 2008.

Ouch, facts are a bit.ch ...

Another ridiculous statement... You know as well as everyone else that 1999 was not Serena at her best. So what if she won 5 titles? Wozniacki wins multiple titles each year and yet many agree that she is not a great player by any means. We all know Serena, as of the 21st century, has been a predominately part-time player. Just because she didn't win a lot of titles in other years doesn't mean she wasn't at her peak. 2002-3 Serena was undoubtedly her peak (with maybe 2010 as well) and you know it as well as I do. Stop the foolishness, I beg you.

Please note also: I'm not saying Serena is greater than Graf. I'm merely trying to make this 'conversation' a little less ridiculous.

 

[aphex]

Folks, don't be fooled. TerraStar18 is NadalAgassi by another username.

The syntax and diction in his posts is inconsistent. His first post tried to sound ethnic, but then later he reverts to sounding just like NadalAgassi and the rest of his/her usernames.

Add this username to the 23 others on the list.

How many many times has this laughable fool been banned?

 

[heftylefty]

Serena looked fully developed in 1999. OK, not fat, if you mean that ...

BTW, she won 5 tournaments in 1999.
In which years did she win more?
Right, only in her brilliant 2008.

Ouch, facts are a bit.ch ...

BTW, you missed that in 2002 Serena won 8 titles that year.
Funny how facts works, huh?

 

[callmethedoctor]

I only know older players from youtube videos but if you're talking about primes as in the best tournament they ever played, Serena's 2010 Wimby is all-time famous for possibly being the best tournament a woman ever played. So her "prime" I guess could then compete with the likes of Graf and Navratilova.

 

[aphex]

I only know older players from youtube videos but if you're talking about primes as in the best tournament they ever played, Serena's 2010 Wimby is all-time famous for possibly being the best tournament a woman ever played. So her "prime" I guess could then compete with the likes of Graf and Navratilova.

I'll have to call the doctor for you. Where on earth did you hear that??

 

[Tanya]

I only know older players from youtube videos but if you're talking about primes as in the best tournament they ever played, Serena's 2010 Wimby is all-time famous for possibly being the best tournament a woman ever played. So her "prime" I guess could then compete with the likes of Graf and Navratilova.

In terms of serving, perhaps, but Serena didn't play great off the ground in that tournament.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Serena looked fully developed in 1999. OK, not fat, if you mean that ...

BTW, she won 5 tournaments in 1999.
In which years did she win more?
Right, only in her brilliant 2008.

Ouch, facts are a bit.ch ...

2oo2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena...#Singles:_52_.2838_titles.2C_14_runner-ups.29
thanks for playing.
what facts, all i hear is a biased rants from a jealous loser...

 

[TERRASTAR18]

How many many times has this laughable fool been banned?

Folks, don't be fooled. TerraStar18 is NadalAgassi by another username.

The syntax and diction in his posts is inconsistent. His first post tried to sound ethnic, but then later he reverts to sounding just like NadalAgassi and the rest of his/her usernames.

Add this username to the 23 others on the list.

nope...try again....and what do you mean by ethnic, you little racist. i guess you are angry white males will be on the road to extinction around 2020....oh well...i say god riddance.
oh well your great white hope was a paper champion who benefitted from a stabbing, she knows it and so do you...
the end.

 

[NadalAgassi]

It is sad Graf fans are even riding the coattails of Date's great comeback. Date deserves credit for the hard work she has done to be able to play pro tennis and compete fairly well at tour at age 40. Not Graf fans using her as a means to build Graf up and diminsh the current era players. Anyway while Date plays well against the top players often she isnt even ranked in the top 50, it is not like she is tearing up the overall tour. BTW Graf and Date played in an exhibition match two years ago and Graf won only 5 games.

 

[Joe Pike]

BTW, you missed that in 2002 Serena won 8 titles that year.
Funny how facts works, huh?

That was a typo, genius ...

Her brilliant year was 2002, not 2008.
2002 was the only year with more titles than 1999 for Serena.
1999 saw also a far better winning percentage than most years of the 00s for Serena.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

I don't need to since your own arguments are hilariously shallow and short-sighted.



:lol:

funny, condescension from someone who has no defense to the argument that their fav played in a weak era with only 1 rival.....who got stabbed early on, so in truth, she had none....facts are facts....but i already know your rebuttal, stan, a bunch of useless stats highlighting how she dominated tomato cans.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

That was a typo, genius ...

Her brilliant year was 2002, not 2008.
2002 was the only year with more titles than 1999 for Serena.
1999 saw also a far better winning percentage than most years of the 00s for Serena.

how many many slams did she win in 1999?and in other years?

 

[Joe Pike]

I only know older players from youtube videos but if you're talking about primes as in the best tournament they ever played, Serena's 2010 Wimby is all-time famous for possibly being the best tournament a woman ever played. So her "prime" I guess could then compete with the likes of Graf and Navratilova.

With Serena beating only two top-20 players.
Sharapova (#17) with 76 64 and Li (# 12) with 75 63.

I think we should call the doctor ...

 

[Joe Pike]

2oo2. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serena...#Singles:_52_.2838_titles.2C_14_runner-ups.29
thanks for playing.
what facts, all i hear is a biased rants from a jealous loser...

You really believed that Serena won more titles in 2008 than in 1999????

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Yes, an era when players like Jankovic, Ivanovic, Safina and Wozniacki can reach #1 must be a really strong era.
Oh, how they would have dominated in the 80s or 90s ...

she's been playing since 1997, so yes an era filled with venus, hingis,capriati, henin,clijsters, davenport, pierce.
and yes they would have dominated the novontas,sabbatinis, jaegars and everts of the world.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

You really believed that Serena won more titles in 2008 than in 1999????

you said it, next time proofread, dummy.

 

[Joe Pike]

It is sad Graf fans are even riding the coattails of Date's great comeback. Date deserves credit for the hard work she has done to be able to play pro tennis and compete fairly well at tour at age 40. Not Graf fans using her as a means to build Graf up and diminsh the current era players. Anyway while Date plays well against the top players often she isnt even ranked in the top 50, it is not like she is tearing up the overall tour. BTW Graf and Date played in an exhibition match two years ago and Graf won only 5 games.

You do know quite well that Graf played injured.
She didn't want to disappoint the fans.
Just read in Former Pro Player Talk what Date has to say about Graf's chances against today's field.
Read and weep ...

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Ahhh, no that is not correct. 22>13 which means Graf>Serena Williams. It does not matter if Graf played Donald Duck to win those slams. She has 9 more slams period. Serena Williams is not even in the "approximate" vicinity of greatness that Graf is. No exceptions on this one! It is very clear.

two words- weak era....the same way you or others like you will say graf is better than court is the same reason why serena is better then both.

 

[Joe Pike]

she's been playing since 1997, so yes an era filled with venus, hingis,capriati, henin,clijsters, davenport, pierce. ...

Graf had been playing since 1982, so yes an era filled with Evert, Navratilova, Austin, Mandlikova, Sabatini, Sanchez, Seles, Novotna, Pierce, Hingis, Venus, Serena, Davenport, Capriati.
She beat Navratilova in 4 slam finals, Evert in one, Seles in 3, Sanchez in 5, Hingis in one.

 

[Joe Pike]

two words- weak era....the same way you or others like you will say graf is better than court is the same reason why serena is better then both.

Right, what a great era with Safina, Ivanovic, Jankovic and Wozniacki being #1.

Graf must be shaking in her boots ...

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Graf had been playing since 1982, so yes an era filled with Evert, Navratilova, Austin, Mandlikova, Sabatini, Sanchez, Seles, Novotna, Pierce, Hingis, Venus, Serena, Davenport, Capriati.
She beat Navratilova in 4 slam finals, Evert in one, Seles in 3, Sanchez in 5, Hingis in one.

nav and evert were overrated too, the weak era triumvirate. besides that it took her till 1987 to win a slam.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Right, what a great era with Safina, Ivanovic, Jankovic and Wozniacki being #1.

Graf must be shaking in her boots ...

pathetic reply, try again. and this time with feeling.

 

[Joe Pike]

pathetic reply, try again. and this time with feeling.

Wow, Graf would have had to fight for her life to prevent Safina, Ivanovic, Jankovic and Wozniacki from taking away her #1 ranking ...

 

[TERRASTAR18]

Wow, Graf would have had to fight for her life to prevent Safina, Ivanovic, Jankovic and Wozniacki from taking away her #1 ranking ...

and the # 1 ranking automatically makes you the best player of your era? btw in a comprable comparion wozzy, ivanovic and jankovic are better than tauziat, novonta and sabbatini.

 

[cc0509]

two words- weak era....the same way you or others like you will say graf is better than court is the same reason why serena is better then both.

That is simply not true.

According to you Serena is better than Graf, Navratilova,Court and Evert? That is quite the loaded statement. Does Serena have superhuman powers too such as X-ray vision? Can she levitate or scale the sides of buildings? :lol:

 

[TERRASTAR18]

That is simply not true.

According to you Serena is better than Graf, Navratilova,Court and Evert? That is quite the loaded statement. Does Serena have superhuman powers too such as X-ray vision? Can she levitate or scale the sides of buildings? :lol:

alright try that again, this time use logic.....those other players you named played in slower, weaker, less competitive eras. their dominance was so impressive in hindsight. serena, on the other hand, throughout her career played at a high level against a deep field.

 

[nat75]

alright try that again, this time use logic.....those other players you named played in slower, weaker, less competitive eras. their dominance was so impressive in hindsight. serena, on the other hand, throughout her career played at a high level against a deep field.

How old are you?? Twelve??

 

[nat75]

The fact that Kimiko Date is still playing today and still putting a fight proves how crappy the current field is. Ask her what does she think about the current field vs. the 90's.

 

[LDVTennis]

Not Graf fans using her as a means to build Graf up and diminsh the current era players.

Oh really?

From Tennis.com, Tennis Talk, Q&A with Kimiko Date-Krumm, July 28, 2011:

Who’s the best player you ever played?

[Date:] For me it’s Steffi Graf. Always Steffi Graf.

You think she could beat most of today’s players?

[Date:] Yeah, I think so. If she has the motivation and starts a little bit practicing, I think she could beat everybody.
​

Could you be a bigger idiot? I know you will try.

 

[TERRASTAR18]

How old are you?? Twelve??

if you have something to add to the conversation do it, otherwise mind your own business.....

 

[TERRASTAR18]

The fact that Kimiko Date is still playing today and still putting a fight proves how crappy the current field is. Ask her what does she think about the current field vs. the 90's.

and you have the nerve to ask ppl's ages? it's called exercise and improved training. just because she competes doesn't say anything about the rest of the field. brett farve played into his 40's does that mean the nfl sucked? competing/putting up a fight doesn't equal winning.

 

[callmethedoctor]

With Serena beating only two top-20 players.
Sharapova (#17) with 76 64 and Li (# 12) with 75 63.

I think we should call the doctor ...

Lol, clever. I guess you didn't watch any of the matches then.
What's funny about that tournament is the highlights actually told the story of the match . They were beatdowns, all of them. She did not drop serve. Like how Sampras would only win 76 64, etc. but you knew Sampras was winning.

 

[buscemi]

Graf had a better winning percentage in 1986-96 (that is a 11-year time frame) than Seles in her best year ever (1992).


But, hey, why let facts come into the way?
After all you are a proud Selesian!!

And the fact that Graf's winning % from the ages of 16.5 to 27.5 was a touch higher than Seles' winning % when she was 18 tells us what, exactly?

When Seles was 18 in 1992, she won 3/4 Majors and the YEC and made the finals of Wimbledon. When Graf was 18 in 1987-1988, she won 2/4 Majors and the YEC and made the finals of Wimbledon & the U.S. Open. Advantage Seles.

And if we're talking about "peak" Seles, that was from the '92 U.S. Open, when she went 36-1, winning the U.S. Open, YEC, Australian Open (over near-peak Graf), and lost her one match 7-6 in the 3rd to Navratilova when she had the flu.

If 37 matches was too short of a peak, how about the 2 year period from the '91 French Open-Hamburg '93? Here are Seles' stats from that period: 128-7 (94.81%); 2 AOs; 2 FOs; 1 Wimbledon F, 1 Wimbledon DNP; 2 U.S. Opens; 2 YECs; Losses to Capriati*2, Navratilova*2, Sabatini, Graf, ASV.

That winning % is higher than Graf's winning % from 1986-1996. It is also higher than Graf's winning % in 1996. It is also higher than Graf's winning % from 1995-1996 (her "peak" according to many), when she lost to Coetzer, De Swardt, Date, Hingis, Davenport, and Novotna. It is also higher than Graf's winning % from 1994-1996, 1993-1996, 1992-1996, 1991-1996, and 1990-1996. Advantage Seles

 

[Joe Pike]

...
If 37 matches was too short of a peak, how about the 2 year period from the '91 French Open-Hamburg '93? Here are Seles' stats from that period: 128-7 (94.81%); 2 AOs; 2 FOs; 1 Wimbledon F, 1 Wimbledon DNP; 2 U.S. Opens; 2 YECs; Losses to Capriati*2, Navratilova*2, Sabatini, Graf, ASV. ...

Seles was 128-8 (94,12 %) between FO 91 and HH 93, not 128-7.
THREE losses to Navratilova, who was aged 34-36 then ...

Graf was 258-7 (97,36 %) between start of 1987 and Berlin 90.
One loss less than Seles in your above-mentioned period.

But 130 wins more ...

 

[Joe Pike]

And the fact that Graf's winning % from the ages of 16.5 to 27.5 was a touch higher than Seles' winning % when she was 18 tells us what, exactly? ...

That average Graf was better than peak Seles.

As Graf's winning percentage from 17.5 to 27.5 was a touch higher (93.85 %) than Hingis' winning percentage when she was 16 (93.75 %).
Which means that average Graf was better than peak Hingis, too.

And her winning percentage was better than Austin's winning percentage when she was 17 (91.49 %).
Which means than average Graf was better than peak Austin as well.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

That average Graf was better than peak Seles.

If that were actually true then Seles would never have achieved the #1 ranking.

 

[buscemi]

Graf was 258-7 (97,36 %) between start of 1987 and Berlin 90.

Followed promptly by straight set losses to 16 year-old Seles at Berlin and the French Open

 

[Joe Pike]

If that were actually true then Seles would never have achieved the #1 ranking.

Graf was not average in 1991, genius ...

 

[buscemi]

That average Graf was better than peak Seles.

Peak Seles = '92 U.S.Open-'93 Hamburg, when she was 36-1 and beat peak or near-peak Graf at the Australian Open.

 

[Joe Pike]

Followed promptly by straight set losses to 16 year-old Seles at Berlin and the French Open

Yes, right after the Blackmail Scandal exploded in the media.
Before than Graf had won 13 tournaments in a row.
After that she lost three in a row.
To giants Seles and Garrison.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Graf was not average in 1991, genius ...

Yeah I know, she was at her peak and still could not attain the #1 ranking.

 

[DjokovicForTheWin]

Yes, right after the Blackmail Scandal exploded in the media.
Before than Graf had won 13 tournaments in a row.
After that she lost three in a row.
To giants Seles and Garrison.

Boohoo, my pappy getting blackmailed, boo hoo, I Think I'll go in a slump now.

 

[buscemi]

Yes, right after the Blackmail Scandal exploded in the media.
Before than Graf had won 13 tournaments in a row.
After that she lost three in a row.
To giants Seles and Garrison.

And later lost to Seles at the '92 French Open after winning Hamburg & Berlin.

 

[Roy125]

I personally thought that graf's absolute peak was at 1996...

 

[Joe Pike]

Peak Seles = '92 U.S.Open-'93 Hamburg, when she was 36-1 and beat peak or near-peak Graf at the Australian Open.

Graf started with 45-0 in 1987.
Graf was 66-0 from Wimbledon 1989 before her loss to Seles in Berlin 1990 which was caused by the Blackmail Scandal.

 

[Joe Pike]

Boohoo, my pappy getting blackmailed, boo hoo, I Think I'll go in a slump now.

Boohoo, I suffered a stab wound that needed one stitch to close, boo hoo, I think I'll go into a slump for the next 10 years.

 

[LDVTennis]

And the fact that Graf's winning % from the ages of 16.5 to 27.5 was a touch higher than Seles' winning % when she was 18 tells us what, exactly?

Well, look who we have here...

A new user, who appears just as NadalAgassi takes a low profile? (I guess his other personality is too busy being justineheninfan on tennis forum.)

I suspected that is who you were, when you started posting at tennis forum. Kind of sick that you ended up arguing with yourself.

Folks, it is NadalAgassi. Don't be fooled.

 

[buscemi]

I personally thought that graf's absolute peak was at 1996...

It probably was. Her competition was much better than in 1987-1989(early 1990), and she still went 54-4 (92.10%), winning the FO, Wimbledon, U.S. Open, and YEC (losses to Date, Hingis, Davenport, and Novotna).

Comparatively, in 1992, another very competitive year, Seles went 70-5 (93.33%), winning the AO, FO, U.S. Open, and YEC (losses to Capriati, Sabatini, Graf, ASV, and Navratilova)

 

[LDVTennis]

Boohoo, I suffered a stab wound that needed one stitch to close, boo hoo, I think I'll go into a slump for the next 10 years.

It is funny, because it is so true.