"Prince has issues"

PBODY99

Legend
TW Europe has the Textreme 110, ported 27.5" length. Release date same as the Phantom. I'll have to add one to the collection.
 

Lukhas

Legend
They'll be the operating company for the brand. As such, they'll be the ones making decisions. However, I'm sure they'll be getting help from the ABG design team.

I hope TW does well.
Could you please break down roughly how Prince is structured?
 

graycrait

Hall of Fame
You guys are getting me all "pumped up for:
talked to TW and supposedly Prince after Phantom has plans to release a straight beam graphite/textreme racquet similar to the Graphite 100 but with more stability.
I like the PCG 100 16x18 and don't feel confounded by its "stability". But then I am not a 1 percenter (great lessons early on, ranked junior, scholarship collegiate player). I was out hitting my daily 100+ serves and took the POG 93", POG 107 and the PCG 100, all strung similarly and I still feel I am "better" with the PCG 100.
 

Lukhas

Legend
What exactly do you want to know? All markets or only US? While I do have a basic understanding of things, I certainly don't claim to know it all.
Yeah, just the basics. How the company is structured roughly. Considering Prince Asia is a separate entity and that if it's true, TW now will "possess" a part of the business, it doesn't seem very simple.
Volkl is run by an American company with a design team in Europe and production in Asia, so that's one model.
In that instance everything could belong to the same company, which doesn't seem to be the case with Prince.
 

themitchmann

Hall of Fame
Yeah, just the basics. How the company is structured roughly. Considering Prince Asia is a separate entity and that if it's true, TW now will "possess" a part of the business, it doesn't seem very simple.

In that instance everything could belong to the same company, which doesn't seem to be the case with Prince.
Asia operates separately. Of course they colloborate on product/marketing, they also go forward with designs that don't necessarily work in the US or European markets.

In terms of how things have worked for the past several years in the US:

The Prince brand is owned by ABG (Authentic Brands Group). Their business model is to license out the Prince name to, what I simply call, and operating company. So while they can use the Prince name, the operating company doesn't own it.

When ABG first acquired Prince, they licenses out the brand to the Waitt group. Eventually, Waitt gave the license back, and ABG had been looking for a new company to take over for some time. In that time, they licensed out things like stringing machines and grommet/bumpers to Tennis Machines, breaking the business into smaller pieces.
 

PBODY99

Legend
Can't find it. What date it is?
@tennis1111

See below mid-April. I will have to but a 110 as it is the"update" update to my signature frame.

TW Staff, Jan 10, 2017 Report

Bill Kid,

For the launch in April, there will be two racquets launching Phantom 100 and Premier 110. There is no
"pro" version that I am aware of at this time. I do know they are working to expand the line in the future.

Thanks,

Brittany, TW

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Asia operates separately. Of course they colloborate on product/marketing, they also go forward with designs that don't necessarily work in the US or European markets.

In terms of how things have worked for the past several years in the US:

The Prince brand is owned by ABG (Authentic Brands Group). Their business model is to license out the Prince name to, what I simply call, and operating company. So while they can use the Prince name, the operating company doesn't own it.

When ABG first acquired Prince, they licenses out the brand to the Waitt group. Eventually, Waitt gave the license back, and ABG had been looking for a new company to take over for some time. In that time, they licensed out things like stringing machines and grommet/bumpers to Tennis Machines, breaking the business into smaller pieces.
Is there a conflict of interest with Prince and TW? It's one thing when TW sells TW products because buyers know where it's coming from. But if TW is selling Prince rackets and not disclosing they're running Prince, they can give Prince rackets special treatment in their reviews and advertising. That would be unethical, so are there steps TW's taking, such as disclosure on their site, to prevent that?
 

JohnBPittsburgh

Hall of Fame
TW has been nothing but professional, I can't see them doing anything unethical just to move a few frames (TW is not hurting for cash)
Excited to see what direction they will take the brand. I am sure they will make an official announcement soon enough.
 
@tennis1111

See below mid-April. I will have to but a 110 as it is the"update" update to my signature frame.

TW Staff, Jan 10, 2017 Report


Bill Kid,

For the launch in April, there will be two racquets launching Phantom 100 and Premier 110. There is no
"pro" version that I am aware of at this time. I do know they are working to expand the line in the future.

Thanks,
Brittany, TW

http://www.facebook.com/tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/TennisWarehouse
TW Blog: http://blog.tennis-warehouse.com/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Pinterest: http://pinterest.com/tenniswarehouse/
Add us on Google+: www.google.com/+tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Instagram: www.instagram.com/tenniswarehouse
@tennis1111

See below mid-April. I will have to but a 110 as it is the"update" update to my signature frame.

TW Staff, Jan 10, 2017 Report


Bill Kid,

For the launch in April, there will be two racquets launching Phantom 100 and Premier 110. There is no
"pro" version that I am aware of at this time. I do know they are working to expand the line in the future.

Thanks,
Brittany, TW

http://www.facebook.com/tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/TennisWarehouse
TW Blog: http://blog.tennis-warehouse.com/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Pinterest: http://pinterest.com/tenniswarehouse/
Add us on Google+: www.google.com/+tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Instagram: www.instagram.com/tenniswarehouse
I hope that the TW start can help me with this request. Will TW be handling Prince in Europe as well? I would also like to know since Trent Bryde , one of the top American juniors using Prince, is using the Phantom Pro does this mean that TW will be supplying him with the Pro.
 

Lukhas

Legend
Asia operates separately. Of course they colloborate on product/marketing, they also go forward with designs that don't necessarily work in the US or European markets.

In terms of how things have worked for the past several years in the US:

The Prince brand is owned by ABG (Authentic Brands Group). Their business model is to license out the Prince name to, what I simply call, and operating company. So while they can use the Prince name, the operating company doesn't own it.

When ABG first acquired Prince, they licenses out the brand to the Waitt group. Eventually, Waitt gave the license back, and ABG had been looking for a new company to take over for some time. In that time, they licensed out things like stringing machines and grommet/bumpers to Tennis Machines, breaking the business into smaller pieces.
Thanks. That explains why Prince's management feels disjointed at times, and the lack of continuity of product lines and models.
 

Here is Trent Bryde with the Phantom Pro, which he used at the Aussi Open.
@tennis1111

See below mid-April. I will have to but a 110 as it is the"update" update to my signature frame.

TW Staff, Jan 10, 2017 Report


Bill Kid,

For the launch in April, there will be two racquets launching Phantom 100 and Premier 110. There is no
"pro" version that I am aware of at this time. I do know they are working to expand the line in the future.

Thanks,
Brittany, TW

http://www.facebook.com/tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Twitter: http://twitter.com/TennisWarehouse
TW Blog: http://blog.tennis-warehouse.com/
YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/user/tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Pinterest: http://pinterest.com/tenniswarehouse/
Add us on Google+: www.google.com/+tenniswarehouse
Follow us on Instagram: www.instagram.com/tenniswarehouse
 
TW has been nothing but professional, I can't see them doing anything unethical just to move a few frames (TW is not hurting for cash)
Excited to see what direction they will take the brand. I am sure they will make an official announcement soon enough.
I'm not questioning TW's character, they're one of the best companies in any industry. I still believe they should disclose on their website that they have a stake in Prince.
 

Tee1Up

Rookie
I'm not questioning TW's character, they're one of the best companies in any industry. I still believe they should disclose on their website that they have a stake in Prince.
"
JohnBPittsburgh,

Hang tight a couple more days! An official announcement to come!

We just started playtesting the Phantom. Initial feedback as follows:

It is very flexible! It has more pop than the older EXO3 models. It is very comfortable and has a different feel that can have a small adjustment period to get used to. Good access to spin.

Thanks,
Brittany, TW"
 

jbdbackfan

Semi-Pro
"
JohnBPittsburgh,

Hang tight a couple more days! An official announcement to come!

We just started playtesting the Phantom. Initial feedback as follows:

It is very flexible! It has more pop than the older EXO3 models. It is very comfortable and has a different feel that can have a small adjustment period to get used to. Good access to spin.

Thanks,
Brittany, TW"
How's stability?
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
My first proper racquet was the Prince O3 Blue, so it sucks to see Prince bleeding on the floor like this even if I have long since moved on to Babolat and Wilson (in that order).
 

zalive

Hall of Fame
Is there a conflict of interest with Prince and TW? It's one thing when TW sells TW products because buyers know where it's coming from. But if TW is selling Prince rackets and not disclosing they're running Prince, they can give Prince rackets special treatment in their reviews and advertising. That would be unethical, so are there steps TW's taking, such as disclosure on their site, to prevent that?
You cannot ban merchant holding and selling their own brand. As for reviews, you cannot prove current ones are completely fair either.
But to expect TW will favor Prince over biggest selling brands, well, I don't see this as likely. First, if they should even try this, big brands would probably ask for 'some explanations'. Partnership is in stake.
 
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loosegroove

Hall of Fame
Is TW rumored to just make/supply parts to racquets or manufacturing or what.
Taking over distribution.

EDIT: I should say distribution and more. But my point was it's not the manufacturing and parts end of things as TW is not a manufacturer.
 
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scotus

G.O.A.T.
My first proper racquet was the Prince O3 Blue, so it sucks to see Prince bleeding on the floor like this even if I have long since moved on to Babolat and Wilson (in that order).
Prince isn't bleeding.

Masha sucked it dry and left it half-dead a long time ago.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
it sucks to see Prince bleeding on the floor like this even if I have long since moved on to Babolat and Wilson
What?? You say you're upset Prince is struggling even though you share some of the responsibility for the struggle??
 

TennisHound

Legend
Thanks. That explains why Prince's management feels disjointed at times, and the lack of continuity of product lines and models.
You feel better now that you know all that baloney.

You know how they do with these racquets - you get used to one, then they change it the next year or cycle.

Prince makes a good product line right now, regardless of their goofy business model.
 

TennisHound

Legend
Prince is making s lot better product than Head of Tecnifibre right now. Just because Head makes some good pro stock racquets is the only reason they are selling racquets.

Prince could do well to come out with a good line of 98" racquets. But even if they don't, their Textreme lines have put them solidly back on the map.
 

PBODY99

Legend
My first proper racquet was the Prince O3 Blue, so it sucks to see Prince bleeding on the floor like this even if I have long since moved on to Babolat and Wilson (in that order).
Are you going to give the latest "update" of The Blue; Textreme 110, a try ?
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
Are you going to give the latest "update" of The Blue; Textreme 110, a try ?
Actually I tried the Textreme Tour 95. Really like the PJ, and there were moments where it played very well. But for some reason, I couldn't quite connect with the racquet as consistently as I thought I would.
 

Bender

G.O.A.T.
What?? You say you're upset Prince is struggling even though you share some of the responsibility for the struggle??
What a silly to say. How is Prince's financial struggle my fault exactly? I do not have a moral obligation to prop up Prince's finances. Plus, I switched to Babolat when Prince was still doing pretty well, back in 2006 / 7 ish, and that was because there was nothing in their lineup at the time that I particularly enjoyed hitting with. Also, the Babolat I switched to was free. I still buy Prince accessories for my father who's been with his old Prince frame since forever, so it's not like Prince hasn't taken my money in a decade. Also, since I'm in Asia, I do not see how my purchase decisions have anything to do with Prince USA since any money I do spend is going to Prince Asia, which apparently operates separately.
 

ollinger

G.O.A.T.
ince is no longer a tennis company. It is a financial vehicle that sells licenses and intellectual property.

Expect nothing much from them until they are placed under Eric Babolat style leadership.
exactly the point I had in mind when I started this thread; a company that gets too far from its origins and from people who actually care about what the company makes/does is usually going to not do well. We started to see this when Prince was purchased years ago by a European sweater company, and it's been mostly down hill since, the company now owned by a bunch of faceless money managers who likely are far more interested in golf than tennis.
 

manchu

New User
Kind of odd went from wait couple days for official announcement to couple months now for enough stock for launch. Sad too.
 

tennisitis

New User
Asia operates separately. Of course they colloborate on product/marketing, they also go forward with designs that don't necessarily work in the US or European markets.

In terms of how things have worked for the past several years in the US:

The Prince brand is owned by ABG (Authentic Brands Group). Their business model is to license out the Prince name to, what I simply call, and operating company. So while they can use the Prince name, the operating company doesn't own it.

When ABG first acquired Prince, they licenses out the brand to the Waitt group. Eventually, Waitt gave the license back, and ABG had been looking for a new company to take over for some time. In that time, they licensed out things like stringing machines and grommet/bumpers to Tennis Machines, breaking the business into smaller pieces.
Thanks for the fascinating discussion on Prince. Piqued my interest so I Googled - not a deep dive - just wanted to share what I found. Sorry if it's redundant but it's news to me.

Authentic Brands Group Propels Prince Sports Throughout the Globe With Key Operating Partners

ABG Aces Prince Apparel Deal

ABG Names Prince Master Partner

Authentic Brands files confidentially for an IPO (we'll have more info if the IPO goes through this time - last attempt was end of 2015)
 

themitchmann

Hall of Fame
Thanks for the fascinating discussion on Prince. Piqued my interest so I Googled - not a deep dive - just wanted to share what I found. Sorry if it's redundant but it's news to me.

Authentic Brands Group Propels Prince Sports Throughout the Globe With Key Operating Partners

ABG Aces Prince Apparel Deal

ABG Names Prince Master Partner

Authentic Brands files confidentially for an IPO (we'll have more info if the IPO goes through this time - last attempt was end of 2015)
From the last article:
“We have a machine here,” Salter said. “Adding brands is not that hard.”
 

droliver

Professional
The Authentic Brands Group is a pretty big player in this area and has bought the rights to the Muhammad Ali estate, Greg Norman, Shaquille O'Neal and Julius Dr. J. Aside from Prince Tennis, they own Ektelon, Tretorn, and Fredreick's of Hollywood among others.
 

floydcouncil

Professional
ABG is a money hungry pig of a company. I heard they turned down a $55M purchase offer for the Prince name. All they want is their monthly check from an operating company, and TW is now foolish enough to pay it.

Let's see what happens.
 

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I wish there was an update on the status.
Here is the latest on Prince:

A judge confirmed Prince's six siblings to be his rightful heirs in a ruling released Friday, bringing them a big step closer to collecting their shares of the music legend's multimillion-dollar estate.
 

camohommed

New User
I've used Prince racquets almost exclusively since I was a teen. When my second Pro 110 frame cracked I switched to a Wilson but the feel was not the same.
I love their strings as well. Hope they continue on for a while longer.
 

grip

Rookie
I had never played with Prince until buying 4 Warrior 100 ESP 14x16 frames 2 years ago. I love them and they are all within 3 grams of each other in weight.
 
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