Honestly I wish TW listed this somewhere on their product page. Very helpful thank you!
Prince Official - Racquets
- Thread starter Prince Tennis Official
- Start date
mixtape
Professional
Since the first gen 100P, I never expected any free power from the Phantom line at all. If anything, if I wanted it to generate more power, I had to play with different strings (avoiding a full bed of poly) and tension. I play with a full bed of syn gut and I find more than enough sufficient power as well.
The current Tour line is only 2 years old, so it looks like Prince likes to update every 3-4 years.
lefty10spro
Semi-Pro
The 2019 Tour line was updated in 2022, so my guess would be 2025.
In Japan market the Tour is 2023 right?
Phantom with Head Velocity MLT strung at 52 has enough punch.
lefty10spro
Semi-Pro
Here are some initial impressions from an old shop owner and coach who received all 5 demos today. Strung up the 100P and the 100X 305 with Tour XP 16 (green of course) at 40#. For reference I have coached and played with the 2019 Tour 310 for 5 years strung with gut mains at 45# and poly crosses at 40. These first 2 I strung are very similar with the 100X giving a bit more pop and the 100P winning in plushness and stability. Like every generation of Phantoms you get very little power when hitting out of the sweetspot, but it does not hurt my old joints like my 2019 Tour. Both are wonderful frames and like one of the TW playtesters said - there is nothing in the market that plays anything like the Phantoms. The 100P is surprisingly quick for its mass and swingweight.
This afternoon I was able to string the 107G and hit a few before my juniors poured in. I strung with the same string at 45#. This racket is a whole different can of worms. Big sweetspot but more suited to compact swing styles. it will be a dream stick for the doubles specialists. It's a bit cumbersome when you are used to 100 sq. in. heads.
Hope this helps a little, and I'll give impressions of the 100X 290 and the 100X 18x20 (320g unstrung - this bad boy is heavy even unstrung - only the strong need apply!) tomorrow.
Here's to arm health and precise targeting! The pocketing effect is soooo sweet with Phantoms!!
This afternoon I was able to string the 107G and hit a few before my juniors poured in. I strung with the same string at 45#. This racket is a whole different can of worms. Big sweetspot but more suited to compact swing styles. it will be a dream stick for the doubles specialists. It's a bit cumbersome when you are used to 100 sq. in. heads.
Hope this helps a little, and I'll give impressions of the 100X 290 and the 100X 18x20 (320g unstrung - this bad boy is heavy even unstrung - only the strong need apply!) tomorrow.
Here's to arm health and precise targeting! The pocketing effect is soooo sweet with Phantoms!!
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
Are you familiar enough with the previous versions to comment how they compare to the latest iterations? I’m particularly interested to know about the 100X 305. I thought the initial 100X 305 had a few minor tweaks that made it better than the Phantom 100 Pro it replaced, primarily a slight stiffening in the upper hoop.
lefty10spro
Semi-Pro
Unfortunately I am not very familiar with v1 or v2 Phantoms. My general impression was that they were too noodly to work for anyone other than advanced, physically strong, high swingspeed players like, say Granollers. Therefore I didn't sell many. I no longer feel this way as the v3 seems to have become more user friendly and myself and my (also aging!) customers are suffering when mis-hitting frames that are 65RA and up. You will hear folks often complain that they need more put away power, but tennis is not about how hard, but about how many balls you make! The beauty of the Phantom flex is, like the TW playtesters pointed out, you can string low (further improving comfort and arm health) and open up what is a bit of a demanding sweetspot. BTW, camo paint job is awesome in person - several compliments on day 1.
tele
Hall of Fame
it came out in fall 2022
time_fly
Hall of Fame
I’m sorry they ditched the O3. With the 310g static weight and just a bit of extra liveliness in the stringbed from the ports it had plenty of power and spin with large sweet spot, also easy on the arm. Stringing the ports is annoying and the feel takes some getting used to, but with the thin beam I didn’t find it too muted once I adjusted.
mixtape
Professional
The only thing that changed is the paint and materials. I'm confident the mold and pattern are the same.
longtimelurker
Professional
Same mold. Grommets will be interchangeable.
PistolPete23
Hall of Fame
No more Twaron in the layup. Replaced by Zylon. Recall Babolat using Zylon back in the day …
So.. safe to assume this is the new direction for the next round of Prince silo updates. Twaron out. Zylon in. Interesting material decision. Here's an except from Alpha Ropes on some material differences:
ARAMID - KEVLAR®/TWARON®/TECHNORA®/NOMEX® Aramid fiber with high modulus and high heat resistance. It is sensitive to UV light but it gives an extra protection and smoothness in high loads and heat situations.
PBO - ZYLON® PBO fiber, whose commercial name is Zylon®, manufactured by Toyobo Co., outstands for superior tenacity and modulus against aramid fibers and for a remarkable stability under constant load, which makes it suitable to replace steel. Easily recognizable by its distinctive gold color, this fiber is featured by a great abrasion resistance and excellent heat-resistance, withstanding much higher temperatures than aramid fibres. PBO Zylon® is however very sensitive to UV light and moisture. Caution is required for applications involving flex fatigue.
So basically, Prince is exchanging some meaty thuddy-ness for crispy solidness. Perhaps understandable in the Phantoms, which are woefully low on power-to-spec, for modern singles anyways. Will be interesting to see how it plays out in the Tours. Also interesting is how Zylon is more susceptible to flex fatigue... We've seen how certain layup decisions can effect structural integrity (Yonex's issue with Percepts cracking at the base of the neck, probably due to the Servo Filter layer weakening the layup too much in that area; previous VCP layup in identical mold was perfectly fine).
ARAMID - KEVLAR®/TWARON®/TECHNORA®/NOMEX® Aramid fiber with high modulus and high heat resistance. It is sensitive to UV light but it gives an extra protection and smoothness in high loads and heat situations.
PBO - ZYLON® PBO fiber, whose commercial name is Zylon®, manufactured by Toyobo Co., outstands for superior tenacity and modulus against aramid fibers and for a remarkable stability under constant load, which makes it suitable to replace steel. Easily recognizable by its distinctive gold color, this fiber is featured by a great abrasion resistance and excellent heat-resistance, withstanding much higher temperatures than aramid fibres. PBO Zylon® is however very sensitive to UV light and moisture. Caution is required for applications involving flex fatigue.
So basically, Prince is exchanging some meaty thuddy-ness for crispy solidness. Perhaps understandable in the Phantoms, which are woefully low on power-to-spec, for modern singles anyways. Will be interesting to see how it plays out in the Tours. Also interesting is how Zylon is more susceptible to flex fatigue... We've seen how certain layup decisions can effect structural integrity (Yonex's issue with Percepts cracking at the base of the neck, probably due to the Servo Filter layer weakening the layup too much in that area; previous VCP layup in identical mold was perfectly fine).
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I'm using the previous version of 100X 290gr (7T51C)
Old and new ones have more or less the same specs, 59 RA, 328 vs 327 swingweight, same balance.....the difference is in the materials, twaron in the old one , zylon the new one.....so I am wondering if it would be worth the upgrade to the new version.
I used also the ATS Tour 290gr, which is more stable and power than my 100X
So maybe the new 100X should be more similar to the ATS Tour 100, maybe than before.
What do you think?
Old and new ones have more or less the same specs, 59 RA, 328 vs 327 swingweight, same balance.....the difference is in the materials, twaron in the old one , zylon the new one.....so I am wondering if it would be worth the upgrade to the new version.
I used also the ATS Tour 290gr, which is more stable and power than my 100X
So maybe the new 100X should be more similar to the ATS Tour 100, maybe than before.
What do you think?
jimdontcare
Rookie
Guess this explains why Henrik thought there was a bit more power in the 100X compared to the last version despite the same specs.
I need to know how the Zylon Tours will play so I know if I should stock up on Twaron Tours now haha.
...Very interesting stuff, Mike, to say the least. Granted, our concerns pale in comparison to faulty bullet proof vests, but I can't help but wonder if a racquet with Zylon in the layup could be effected by enough hot summer days, being left in the car, etc. to effect it in any noticeable way. I'm probably off-base in my thinking, but who knows...?
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I replaced about 2000 sets of armor when this surfaced. Heat and humidity were primary concerns, rackets get roughly the same exposure. Your concern is also my concern, exposure might become an issue. I will say heat and humidity aside, a Zylon vest was like wearing a silk tee shirt, they were very comfortable. The fiber itself is pretty amazing. I would imagine Prince completed extensive testing prior to marketing Zylon in the Phantom line. I intend on demoing a Phantom very soon.
Fascinating. I would think (hope?) Prince did their due diligence, and would have to assume they located it in the layup in such a way where its weakness are mitigated, if not eliminated. If there's any issue, it sounds like it's not something that people are going to notice until they've owned the frames for a while... if anything happens at all.
jimdontcare
Rookie
Who's going to be the first one to test the Zylon by leaving a Phantom in their car on a hot summer day
Mjolnir
New User
Zylon has extremely high heat resistance. Its kryptonite is exposure to light…any light. Makes me wonder why Prince decided to leave the windows in the neck, in fact seems to have lengthened them. Strange decision.
In any event, suppose we can anticipate the next Tours, maybe all lines, getting switched over to Textreme Zylon.
Should be interesting. We bid you a fond adieu, Textreme Twaron?
In any event, suppose we can anticipate the next Tours, maybe all lines, getting switched over to Textreme Zylon.
Should be interesting. We bid you a fond adieu, Textreme Twaron?
Jasper Ruud
New User
Makes sense. It seems like the Phantom line has made minimal updates each time, something like swapping Twaron for Zylon or slightly thickening the beam for the X line in 2020.
I doubt that any of the Zylon concerns will be a problem in the racket. The engineers surely are aware of all the properties of the materials they are using. I am curious to hear from folks what the 2020 and 2024 Phantoms play like side-by-side.
There are occasionally messages on this forum about the advancement of the Prince Japan lines, but in this case it seems that Zylon is debuting in the international market. The Phantom line in Japan from 2022 has Twaron. Maybe the next updates in Japan will also have Zylon?
Unrelated to the new releases, but I got 18' of natural gut from a buddy, which is enough to do the crosses in my Phantom 100x. I used Lightning Pro syn gut in the mains... so far, a great setup, but I'm only two hours in.
Mjolnir
New User
They undoubtedly do…it’s the marketers who override them I worry about!
FOPW (Fly on Prince Wall):
E: We should drop the window, just use a decal or paint over the layup…exposure to light isn’t good.
M: Yeah, but we need ocular titillation to drive sales…we’re going to make the window bigger!
E: …..
naturalexponent
Hall of Fame
haha good one
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
Damn marketing teams and their ocular titillation!They undoubtedly do…it’s the marketers who override them I worry about!
FOPW (Fly on Prince Wall):
E: We should drop the window, just use a decal or paint over the layup…exposure to light isn’t good.
M: Yeah, but we need ocular titillation to drive sales…we’re going to make the window bigger!
E: …..
PistolPete23
Hall of Fame
Not any light, UV specifically, which is part of sunlight of course. I wouldn't be surprised if the windows in the neck are just for looks, i.e., a sacrificial decal.
JediMindTrick
Hall of Fame
I would think that playing tennis is one of main scenarios to cause flex fatigue.
aussie
Professional
Totally agree @jbdbackfan. When I use my Phantom Pro 100 or Phantom 100X 290 I string with mostly full bed syn gut or multi in the range of 44-48. Sometimes with the Pro 100 I'll hybrid syn gut m/poly X at 46-42.
At those low tensions I find more than enough power to match nicely the control, spin, feel and comfort of these unique frames.
Mjolnir
New User
That’s what I thought too, but this is from Teijin:
“ZYLON® should be protected not only from ultraviolet light but also from visible light. These data show strength retention after exposure to fluorescent lamp.” [https://www.teijin-frontier-usa.com/zylon/]
As far as I can tell, those are actual windows into the Prince soul, at least on my ATS 98. I like the sunscreen idea but that might start an spf war. Would probably just go to a local car tinter.
jmacdaununder2
Legend
And on the 366th day after purchase...
One sunny day at Boeing...
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tele
Hall of Fame
I heard that there are no plans for the 93P or the 97P.
longtimelurker
Professional
BEAST O3 104（限定カラー） - Prince プリンステニス公式サイト
数多くの世界のトップテニスプレイヤーの勝利に貢献してきたPrince(プリンス)の公式サイトです。テニスラケットからシューズ、ウェアまで豊富な商品ラインナップをご紹介いたします。
princetennis.jp
Thought i'd throw in the beast 03 104, since we are on page 104 love the clean looks. This one would make a perfect platform @Hankenstein you would love this one. Great specs to work with.
Hankenstein
Hall of Fame
Looks very clean!BEAST O3 104（限定カラー） - Prince プリンステニス公式サイト
数多くの世界のトップテニスプレイヤーの勝利に貢献してきたPrince(プリンス)の公式サイトです。テニスラケットからシューズ、ウェアまで豊富な商品ラインナップをご紹介いたします。
Thought i'd throw in the beast 03 104, since we are on page 104 love the clean looks. This one would make a perfect platform @Hankenstein you would love this one. Great specs to work with.
Beautiful!That's kind of a bummer, not gonna lie
danbrenner
Legend
Hey man. What are you using these days. I know you loved the B100 v8. Where are you on the v9.Looks very clean!
danbrenner
Legend
And where does the B104 stack up I know you liked that one too ?Looks very clean!
loosegroove
Hall of Fame
I didn’t catch that. I didn’t think that account was even active anymore as they haven’t posted in ages. But if you click on their profile, it does say “Last seen Yesterday at 5:51 PM
PistolPete23
Hall of Fame
Japanese Fiber Manufacturer to Pay $66 Million for Alleged False Claims Related to Defective Bullet Proof Vests
WASHINGTON –Toyobo Co. Ltd. of Japan and its American subsidiary, Toyobo U.S.A. Inc., f/k/a Toyobo America Inc. (collectively, Toyobo), have agreed to pay $66 million to resolve claims under the False Claims Act that they sold defective Zylon fiber used in bullet proof vests that the United...
Sounds like Zylon is a cost-savings gimmick by Prince. I'd probably look to buy the G2 100p. Humidity may not be an issue since the fibers are encased in resin. But it seems like the properties could still degrade over time in non-extreme warm temperatures even without exposure to light. There are also concerns with flexural fatigue. Too bad, I was excited for the new release ...
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Lord of the Crags
New User
I have too many racquets and just started stringing over the winter so I end up noodling around with new strings etc in the many racquets and thus don't have time to do a deep dive on any one in particular...I'm sure others out there can feel my pain...
Anyhow, I recently restrung the X105 with Prince Vortex 16g @ 55lbs (the UC seemed to give inconsistent launch angle, and I upped the tension to give some more control, as the 105 head size doesn't need any power boost from the string bed) and added a few grams up at the 10 and 2 positions. I found that adding some weight was key to getting my serves to land in the service box vs consistently landing long. It may benefit with an addition of even more up in the hoop, but I don't want to add too much or it will again become too powerful for consistent groundstrokes and loose some maneuverability, but that's a story for a different day...
I'm a singles baseliner. I usually play with either a Ripstick , a Synergy 98 or more recently a Dunlop SX300 tour. The X105 does well in this arena as well, but tends to not give me as penetrating a shot as the other two options. The large head is great for saving me on defensive shots, but it also seems to tend to send back a loopier ball on most of my shots instead of an attacking shot when desired. Again, if I spent more time playing with this racquet instead of playing around with the others I could probably dial that in better.
Now, a new horizon opened up for me yesterday-I played my first doubles game in a looooong time. I think I may have only EVER played doubles like 6 times total in my life. I pulled the x105 out of the bag as I figured it could suit doubles even better than singles. YUP! Light, maneuverable, big sweet spot, great slices, good spin on easy swings, and felt great at the net (I'm usually horrible at the net in a singles match). It's not a rocket launcher for serves, but very consistent and adds a good amount of spin. Extremely fun racquet on the doubles court!
mixtape
Professional
Oh, I saw it. It was even captioned "ocular titillation" lol
With an 03 Port camo phantom coming, maybe they'll consider a camo 97P. That would be sweet.
