Prince Original Graphite: How Good Was It?

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DaveInBradenton

Rookie
The iconic Prince Graphite: dark green with gold stripes, a leather grip and a crossbar in the handle. Just looking at it a couple decades ago, it seemed like a thing of beauty.

Back then it seemed to play as good as it looked. When I returned to tennis last summer after 15 years, I was surprised that Prince still sells the Graphite. Players must still be using it! But I wonder,........is it still competitive with today's frames?

Here's the specs:

Head Size:107 sq. in. / 690 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 12.2oz / 346g
Balance: 5pts Head Light
Swingweight: 333
Stiffness: 63
Beam Width: 19 mm Straight Beam
Composition: 100% Graphite
Power Level: Low-Medium
Swing Speed: Moderate-Fast
Grip Type: Prince Leather
String Pattern:16 Mains / 19 Crosses

There must be a lot of these POGS in closets. Anybody take one out to the courts recently? How does it compare with your current racket? How much progress in frames has there been since the Prince Graphite was introduced?

Best wishes,
Dave

"What's love all about?"
 
The answer is comparable to the answer for the question "how well did the Pontiac GTO handle"....pretty well for its era, but not as well as most econoboxes from the present era. POG was a huge advance in its time but people mostly stopped using it for a reason -- they play better (especially serving) with contemporary sticks, which have more pop, are easier to swing, and are mostly more comfortable (the POG was certainly not harsh but shuddered some).
 
I agree with Ollinger, but that said, I suspect you could still play high level tennis with this frame today with modern strings, if it suited your game. There are many currently players using more modern frames but that have similar playing characteristics. Just not that many that would be using a full 107 oversize thin beam players frame. I'm pretty sure I could play well with one after getting the right string in it. I'm using a 102 thin beam Head Radical team I have weighted to 12 ounces, so I don't think it would be too big an adjustment.
 
ollinger said:
The answer is comparable to the answer for the question "how well did the Pontiac GTO handle"....pretty well for its era, but not as well as most econoboxes from the present era. POG was a huge advance in its time but people mostly stopped using it for a reason -- they play better (especially serving) with contemporary sticks, which have more pop, are easier to swing, and are mostly more comfortable (the POG was certainly not harsh but shuddered some).
Click to expand...

I completely DISAGREE. I still own the POG Mid (93) and IMO it is one of the most comfortable and easiest to play with racquets sold today. The POG has me wishing all the racquet companies stop with the "space age tech" they keep adding to their frames which to me cause more harm than good and just go with good old, 100% graphite. I've been a long time fan of the Prestige line of racquets but the last iteration (Innegra) gave me tennis elbow and I've never had TE in the 10+ years I've been playing.

I love the POG Mid for an occasional hit but to be honest, the only reason it isn't my main is that over the years I've gravitated to 18x20 string pattern to tame my topspin. That racquet though probably has the biggest sweetspot and most spin potential of any mid-sized players frame (past or present).

Again, I wish Wilson would go back to the PS85 material for their current pro-staff line and that Head would just return to graphite with their Prestiges. Thank Goodness for Prince's willingness to still offer their heritage, even in the midst of all their EXOs, Triple Threats, NXGs etc. The other companies should follow (namely Dunlop and Head).
 
Matt21 said:
I completely DISAGREE. I still own the POG Mid (93) and IMO it is one of the most comfortable and easiest to play with racquets sold today. The POG has me wishing all the racquet companies stop with the "space age tech" they keep adding to their frames which to me cause more harm than good and just go with good old, 100% graphite. I've been a long time fan of the Prestige line of racquets but the last iteration (Innegra) gave me tennis elbow and I've never had TE in the 10+ years I've been playing.

I love the POG Mid for an occasional hit but to be honest, the only reason it isn't my main is that over the years I've gravitated to 18x20 string pattern to tame my topspin. That racquet though probably has the biggest sweetspot and most spin potential of any mid-sized players frame (past or present).

Again, I wish Wilson would go back to the PS85 material for their current pro-staff line and that Head would just return to graphite with their Prestiges. Thank Goodness for Prince's willingness to still offer their heritage, even in the midst of all their EXOs, Triple Threats, NXGs etc. The other companies should follow (namely Dunlop and Head).
Click to expand...

I'd agree with the shudder comment when referring to the Mid, but the OS is extremely stable and attenuates vibration very well. It was near the top of racquetresearch.com's rankings for many, many years. I believe they stopped updating their rankings, though. I think there's still definitely a place for the OS frame, as it's not something you can really find in another package. Even for an OS, it handles like a dream at the net (even if it doesn't FEEL like it's handling that great). The Mid is stable, and the head shape makes it deceptively not-that-demanding, but I don't think the Mid has that same "magic" for me.
 
I played it back in the '80's.
Seemed heavy, sluggish, kinda dead feeling, like Wilson rackets. A lot of effort for a little reward. VERY controllable, but too much control just makes me need to hit more tennis balls.
 
I play POGs and Borons - both mid and OS for the POGS. Great racquets.

Not a fan of "today's" racquets (except the Donnay's) although I do have a Pure Drive.

Nothing I can't do with the POGs that I need a modern stick to do.

It's all what you prefer - there isn't a right or wrong
 
DaveInBradenton said:
There must be a lot of these POGS in closets. Anybody take one out to the courts recently? How does it compare with your current racket? How much progress in frames has there been since the Prince Graphite was introduced?
Click to expand...

There has been a lot of progress, but in many terrible directions. Widebody Profiles, head-heavy Hammers, head-heavy ultra-light Si's, ultra-stiff hollow feeling Pure Drives, tension loosing Steams, etc. I shouldn't begrudge racquet companies for trying new things though. They need to fuel the market's seeming insatiable need for change, whether that change is good or bad.

The classics, like the POG, Prostaff, Radical, Prestige, Dunlop 200, are still in the lineup (albeit modified in varying degrees) because they are great racquets. Contemporary racquets based on the classic formulas, like the Pure Storm, are good too. And originals in good condition, like the POG one and three stripe, Trysis, Prestige Classic, PS St. Vincent, are best enjoyed out in the court rather than in a display case because they really are timeless.
 
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LeeD said:
I played it back in the '80's.
Seemed heavy, sluggish, kinda dead feeling, like Wilson rackets. A lot of effort for a little reward. VERY controllable, but too much control just makes me need to hit more tennis balls.
Click to expand...

Lee, since notable professionals played successfully with the Graphite (albeit probably modified), I'm wondering if lower string tension and/or more powerful strings would have made a difference to you back then.

Also wonder what a POG would do with today's strings. Me, I would try traditional 17 gauge natural gut.

Dave
 
Guys, I don't come close to presuming I was ever as strong, as fit, as quick, had the eyesight, or the reflexes, or the practice time as a PRO tennis player.
And you shouldn't either, unless you are TennisBalla or TennisPro.
I was, at best, a strong 4.5, back around 1979.
As such, I cannot swing a pro's racket, volley with a pro's racket, serve with a pro's racket, or carry a pro's bag. I need something a little easier, more powerful, to hit against slower moving balls.
Now YOU, you might be a different story. You play against pros. I don't.
 
LeeD said:
As such, I cannot swing a pro's racket, volley with a pro's racket, serve with a pro's racket, or carry a pro's bag. I need something a little easier, more powerful, to hit against slower moving balls.
Click to expand...
Which racquet are you referring to as for Pros?
 
POG is king

I'm a POG player from the mid 80's. Played NCAA DIV 1 singles with a POG oversize and still play with it almost 30 years later. I own 3 of the newer TW versions of this stick. It's still more solid than a Pro Staff 6.1, Prestige or Volkl PB 10.

It is the most solid stick out there... it is 100% graphite. They just don't make graphite sticks like that anymore. I'm surprised that more pros don't still swing this stick. I guess Prince is still peddling its O port crap.

Long live the POG. :twisted:
 
donnayblack99 said:
I'm a POG player from the mid 80's. Played NCAA DIV 1 singles with a POG oversize and still play with it almost 30 years later. I own 3 of the newer TW versions of this stick. It's still more solid than a Pro Staff 6.1, Prestige or Volkl PB 10.

It is the most solid stick out there... it is 100% graphite. They just don't make graphite sticks like that anymore. I'm surprised that more pros don't still swing this stick. I guess Prince is still peddling its O port crap.

Long live the POG. :twisted:
Click to expand...

Would've guessed you play a Donnay... :wink:
 
A few days ago I sent for some demo rackets: PK 5G, PK 7G, PK Redondo. For fun, I also requested a POGOS, just like the one I enjoyed a couple decades ago.

Today I hit with the POG, along with the 7G and my own MicroGel Radical OS. No markings on the strings in the POG demo.

I would call this a low powered racket (at least with these strings). The low power would encourage the player to take big swings. I had to raise my sights to clear the net and hit deep shots. The vibration level is low so the comfort level is good. Control should not be a problem with the POG. The racket seemed a little hefty on serves. At 12.2 ounces, it's about an ounce heavier than my personal MG Rad OS.

I did not spend a lot of time with the Prince, but my overall impression was positive. I see why I liked it so much back in the early '90s. In fact, with the right strings and tension, I think the old icon could suit a lot of today's players.

This makes me wonder just how much real progress has been made in actual racket function since this racket came out.

Best wishes,
Retro Dave
 
DaveInBradenton said:
A few days ago I sent for some demo rackets: PK 5G, PK 7G, PK Redondo. For fun, I also requested a POGOS, just like the one I enjoyed a couple decades ago.

Today I hit with the POG, along with the 7G and my own MicroGel Radical OS. No markings on the strings in the POG demo.

I would call this a low powered racket (at least with these strings). The low power would encourage the player to take big swings. I had to raise my sights to clear the net and hit deep shots. The vibration level is low so the comfort level is good. Control should not be a problem with the POG. The racket seemed a little hefty on serves. At 12.2 ounces, it's about an ounce heavier than my personal MG Rad OS.

I did not spend a lot of time with the Prince, but my overall impression was positive. I see why I liked it so much back in the early '90s. In fact, with the right strings and tension, I think the old icon could suit a lot of today's players.

This makes me wonder just how much real progress has been made in actual racket function since this racket came out.

Best wishes,
Retro Dave
Click to expand...

Dave, I'd be interested to hear your comments about the performance at net. I think one of the most amazing things about the POGOS is that it is a competent racquet all around the court, and not just an excellent baselining frame. That's something I don't find in (m)any other OS frames.
 
Super Mod,

I was hitting groundstokes against my ball machine today, so no information on volleys.

I gave up the game circa 1996 and came back last June. About 5 or 10 years ago my ex-wife called me and said, "What should I do with those old rackets in the closet?" I told her to garage sale them, that I would never play again. BAD MOVE! I wish I had my old Prince. Hey, I could hang it on the wall. Good memories with that racket.

What's a used POG OS worth in VG to EX condition?

Best wishes,
Dave
 
I played the POG for more than a decade back in juniors then into my college days in the late 90's until I switched to more modern rackets. Still a great racket, but I just could not imagine bringing it into battle in this day and age. I felt outgunned even back then in college. Found myself working too hard to keep up late in matches. Stable as a rock, huge sweetspot, really comfortable to hit, but it is just too sluggish, too flexible to keep up with the modern game. Last ATP players I can think of who used it would probably be JC Ferrero or maybe Spadea.

Back in juniors I played synthetic gut @ 68-70 lbs and then later switched to pro blend (kevlar hybrid) and played around 62-63. I think a modern copoly would be great in the POG OS.
 
DaveInBradenton said:
Super Mod,

I was hitting groundstokes against my ball machine today, so no information on volleys.

I gave up the game circa 1996 and came back last June. About 5 or 10 years ago my ex-wife called me and said, "What should I do with those old rackets in the closet?" I told her to garage sale them, that I would never play again. BAD MOVE! I wish I had my old Prince. Hey, I could hang it on the wall. Good memories with that racket.

What's a used POG OS worth in VG to EX condition?

Best wishes,
Dave
Click to expand...

Depends on the revision, and the "value" really depends on the collector. Since they've been in production for so long, I wouldn't say they're really collectors items. If you had the very very original version(s) with the sparkly green(?) stripe w/ or w/o bumperguard in VG/EX I'd say that one is probably the most valuable. Otherwise not particularly :P

Maybe in the $75-100 range otherwise. In used-well used they'll go for the $50-75 range most commonly.
 
DaveInBradenton said:
Super Mod,

I was hitting groundstokes against my ball machine today, so no information on volleys.

I gave up the game circa 1996 and came back last June. About 5 or 10 years ago my ex-wife called me and said, "What should I do with those old rackets in the closet?" I told her to garage sale them, that I would never play again. BAD MOVE! I wish I had my old Prince. Hey, I could hang it on the wall. Good memories with that racket.

What's a used POG OS worth in VG to EX condition?

Best wishes,
Dave
Click to expand...

From experience as both a buyer and seller, POGs have terrible resale value. I've had mint condition frames that only pulled $65. Most I've ever gotten for one is $75. Usually go for much lower ($45-55).
 
Seth said:
From experience as both a buyer and seller, POGs have terrible resale value. I've had mint condition frames that only pulled $65. Most I've ever gotten for one is $75. Usually go for much lower ($45-55).
Click to expand...

I have 5. For my mids I paid $8, $24 and $28. For my OS's I paid $2 and $22. The $28 and $22 ones were in very good condition, although the $28 needed a new grip.
 
Most of you agree with my assessment, even Dave.
Dave, I use a HeadMicroGelOS sometimes, and it's lightyear's better for my modern game (the game I'm playing now). It's lighter, more powerful, bigger sweetspot, more manueverable, much bigger serves, softer on my shoulder, elbow and wrist.
 
This is a true performer from all areas of the court. Stick in a poly you can really swing out and crush the ball. The only downside is it's a bit sluggish, otherwise I'd use it full time.
 
LeeD said:
Most of you agree with my assessment, even Dave.
Dave, I use a HeadMicroGelOS sometimes, and it's lightyear's better for my modern game (the game I'm playing now). It's lighter, more powerful, bigger sweetspot, more manueverable, much bigger serves, softer on my shoulder, elbow and wrist.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's a fine racket. That's why they're still sold. A nice combination of power, control, and comfort. I have 3 MG frames, 2 OS and one MP. Oversize "player's" rackets are out of style, but this one is available and at reasonable price.

Dave
 
I was thinking of a MGMid. How is it?
I'd like something with a bigger serve than the OS, while retaining the soft, easy feel and medium weight and SW.
Currently head weighting a Bio300T, another direction.
 
LeeD said:
I was thinking of a MGMid. How is it?
I'd like something with a bigger serve than the OS, while retaining the soft, easy feel and medium weight and SW.
Currently head weighting a Bio300T, another direction.
Click to expand...

I seem to always go back to the OS, so it may be just personal preference.

I like the bigger racket heads, but then I don't watch the ball very well.

I like to see where my shot is going (even before contact). :+(

Dave
 
Thanks.
I don't watch the incoming ball much either, but a 95 sq in 200 is fine for me if I'm somewhat interested. I get bored easily.
It's just that I like the feel of the MicroGel sooo much, and I think an OS takes away a bit from my first flat serves, being so big and air draggy.
I serve way harder with my 200's, 300's, and 500's, and LMRadMids.
I guess I'm looking for my cake and to eat it also, something that is hard to accomplish. A big serve coupled with no mishits might not be an achievable trait, for a bad 4.0 player.
 
ollinger said:
The answer is comparable to the answer for the question "how well did the Pontiac GTO handle"....pretty well for its era, but not as well as most econoboxes from the present era. POG was a huge advance in its time but people mostly stopped using it for a reason -- they play better (especially serving) with contemporary sticks, which have more pop, are easier to swing, and are mostly more comfortable (the POG was certainly not harsh but shuddered some).
Click to expand...

I have to say this is one of the best answers I've ever seen! I completely agree, as one who drove a '69 Cutlass 442 for a while in college and now drives an Infiniti G35 (10 years old now). The Cutlass was badass in its day, but the Infiniti would run circles around it in every aspect. The new G60, my next car, would really do it. They not only outperform, but they'll last longer and run better as well!

The first real OS racquet I ever had was the Prince Pro. The natural upgrade to that was the Graphite. One thing I remember from that experience was how much my serve dropped off with the Graphite.

Today, racquets are much more level-driven. That is to say that there is not a one-stop solution for players. Really and truly, racquets are custom built for rec players if you compare them to the early days of graphite and most certainly the days of wood!
 
Excellent points, you two guys.
I never pinpointed why I didn't like the POG's. You guys summarized it perfectly. My hitting bud then, with little serve, loved the POG's.
 
OK, guys. Please level with me. Should I get A POG Oversize? Now, I play with the Prince EXO3 Red 105, which I like very much. I was wondering if the extra 2 ounces in weight might help me with my groundstrokes. I'm an all-courter (definitely not a baseliner) with a very good volley. I hit slice rather than topspin. One hand FH and BH. On the negative side, I'm 67 years old and only 5'7" tall. Will the POG OS be a drag on my serve?
 
I just went from my 10 oz Aero500 to one of my lighter old Mfil200's, so a gain of about 2.5 oz.
It was fine, but I was having a good day, not pressured, and the air temps were warm (62 degrees).
POG will kill anyone's serve, if he cares.
 
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