Prince Phantom 97P Review / Discussion

stephenclown

Professional
@stephenclown how's the 97P performing? You've probably clocked a lot more hours by now... anything new to add?
That clearcoat thing is a bummer...
Yeah wasn't exactly sure of the beams, prince japan lists them as 16.5-20mm but easier to write it as just flat 16-20 haha.

Not really too much more to add yet, 1.30 plays fantastic in it. Much easier to handle heavy balls and getting used to the slice more, just an adjustment to the more open pattern.

HD Aster feels really plush but missing that feedback of Alu Power, it's a really nice string and probably suits stiffer frames that need some muting. Plays very soft in a comfortable way. Too many strings lately for me have been soft but feel harsh and inconsistent.

46 lbs suits well but BBO can feel very low powered and a little raw, probably needs a couple more lbs but not sure I would be happy playing it too much higher.

I moved to 44lbs with prestretch though for my next two trials due to some poor form and elbow twinge lingering for old racquets. Trialling Alu Power (purple) and Signum Pro Firestorm 1.25. Hoping firestorm has some kind of special feel to it like Alu but my hopes aren't too high. It's supposed to be comparable with more power so it might be worth it. Might be better than purple Alu.

Unfortunately unsure if I will get much more time to play at the moment to play. They have shut down my club until after the ATP Cup so I have to play elsewhere but without memberships its hard here due to prices.

I'm going to try and get a hit in down melbourne with an old mate I briefly coached with at my old club. He is early 30s was ranked inside 700 when he was younger. If not, hopefully I can grab a couple lessons off him haha
 

stephenclown

Professional
Do you know any other info on the ported one? Flex?
There is nothing around with the stiffness ratings yet. Given that the other 100X frames strung are around 55RA, 97P in high 50s and 93P at 57 I would guess that the frame will be mid 50s as well.

Tennis Warehouse racquet finder has the following:

325 swingweight
16.5-20.5mm
16x18
7 pts headlight

Looks to be a very interesting racquet
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Seems to be some discounting happening with certain non-Phantom Prince models; it seems logical - given that, as a de facto running change, they eventually added Twaron to the throat of the first renditions - that there will again be updates of the TT95 etc. with TeXtreme X Twaron added at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock this time around. (ATS Anti-Torque System seems to feature in the latest Phantom nomenclature.) If they produced a TT97 with this update - which should alleviate the mild head flutter issues I experience with my original TT95 - I'd be all in, assuming comfort isn't overly compromised.
 
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PBODY99

Legend
@jmacdaununder2

The 10 & 2 treatment worked in my triple threat frames of the 1990's, as it stiffened that arc in the head without changing the balance much.
IF the 110 Legacy is an update to bring the Premier Line up to version 2 Textreme & Tarwon , my Speedport Gold 110's may finally be taken out of the bag.
 

stephenclown

Professional
Seems to be some discounting happening with certain non-Phantom Prince models; it seems logical - given that, as a de facto running change, they eventually added Twaron to the throat of the first renditions - that there will again be updates of the TT95 etc. with TeXtreme X Twaron added at 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock this time around. (ATS Anti-Torque System seems to feature in the latest Phantom nomenclature.) If they produced a TT97 with this update - which should alleviate the mild head flutter issues I experience with my original TT95 - I'd be all in, assuming comfort isn't overly compromised.
The new Textreme Tour models added in January this year have Twaron in the throat. It is unlikely that they will be updated until 2022/3 as per the last release time frame for this line. If they did update them with ATS I am unsure how long it would take. It is possible that they do break the cycle but unlikely. They will probably update the technology again for the next release and improve on ATS. I am just glad that they improve the frames key characteristics of the lines. We have the original textreme, then textreme2 as in the Beast/Tour line and now the addition of ATS and a change to the way the Twaron is implemented in the throat.

@jmacdaununder2

The 10 & 2 treatment worked in my triple threat frames of the 1990's, as it stiffened that arc in the head without changing the balance much.
IF the 110 Legacy is an update to bring the Premier Line up to version 2 Textreme & Tarwon , my Speedport Gold 110's may finally be taken out of the bag.
110 looks to have ATS as per my research - 100% on the o3. I am interested to see how they play but I have never hit oversize. Might buy my partner the 110 o3 model. Tossing up between 110 o3 and 100 o3

Solid beam: 16x18, 260g unstrung, 36cm balance (3pts head heavy), 25-28-25mm, 27.5", 290sw

O3: 16 x 19, 270g unstrung, 35cm balance (even), 25-28-25mm, 27.5", 295sw
 
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PBODY99

Legend
@stephenclown
If he Legacy follows the form of the frames that preceeded it, the twist weight of the 110_O3 will be higher than the 100 which will be in the Beast line.
I saw the data posted in Asia, but I did not list it as TW might feel it is wrong. As a gray headed player I don't wanted to offend our host.
Well now we wait to see what the new year actually brings.
Thank you.
 

GreenClay

Rookie
There is nothing around with the stiffness ratings yet. Given that the other 100X frames strung are around 55RA, 97P in high 50s and 93P at 57 I would guess that the frame will be mid 50s as well.

Tennis Warehouse racquet finder has the following:

325 swingweight
16.5-20.5mm
16x18
7 pts headlight

Looks to be a very interesting racquet
Thanks. I used to play with both the Tour 16/18 as well as the 18/20. Preferred the 18/20.
Do you know whether they’ll bring out an 18/20 O3 Phantom?
 
New grip on the 97P, resitex pro seems to be very dense and heavy as well.

I found the 97P to hit a bit more powerful but the deflection in the 14x18 can hit some very hard balls. 97P has a much easier time dropping trajectory and has excellent control. I didn't hit with the 14x18 much but it was a fun frame.
I wonder if this means the grip is closer to the weight of a leather grip, meaning the racquet itself is lighter, so a leather grip wouldn’t add more weight, or another synthetic might make for a lighter overall weight.

I see upon further reading, the grip clocks in at ~19 grams. My older Resi-pro is 14g. So that’s about an overgrip’s difference, and I guess an overgrip’s difference from a standard 25g leather.

For those of us that use an overgrip over our leather, wondering if the denser, heavier syn grip has more of that leather-like crisp bevel feel underneath?

I would be ok with sticking with a syn grip if the feel was right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Daphantom99

New User
I wonder if this means the grip is closer to the aweigh of a leather grip, meaning the racquet itself is lighter, so a leather grip wouldn’t add more weight, or another synthetic might make for a lighter overall weight.

I see upon further reading, the grip clocks in at ~19grams. My older Resi-pro is14g. So that’s about an overgrip’s difference, and I guess an overgrip’s difference from a standard 25g leather.

For those of us that use an overgrip over our leather, wondering if the denser, heavier sun grip has more of that leather-like crisp bevel feel underneath?

I would be ok with sticking with a sun grip if the feel was right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What is a sun grip?
 

stephenclown

Professional
Thanks. I used to play with both the Tour 16/18 as well as the 18/20. Preferred the 18/20.
Do you know whether they’ll bring out an 18/20 O3 Phantom?
Given that the O3 Tour 100 was a european release, I doubt there will be many more ported phantoms coming out. Ported 100 looks good but open pattern.

I wonder if this means the grip is closer to the aweigh of a leather grip, meaning the racquet itself is lighter, so a leather grip wouldn’t add more weight, or another synthetic might make for a lighter overall weight.

I see upon further reading, the grip clocks in at ~19grams. My older Resi-pro is14g. So that’s about an overgrip’s difference, and I guess an overgrip’s difference from a standard 25g leather.

For those of us that use an overgrip over our leather, wondering if the denser, heavier sun grip has more of that leather-like crisp bevel feel underneath?

I would be ok with sticking with a sun grip if the feel was right.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had the same, 19 grams for the stock grip and a firmer feel. In between a standard synthetic and leather. I could probably have played it with the stock but the leather grip was a nice upgrade. Firmer, and a little bit of weight difference but not too much.
 

Daphantom99

New User
Given that the O3 Tour 100 was a european release, I doubt there will be many more ported phantoms coming out. Ported 100 looks good but open pattern.



I had the same, 19 grams for the stock grip and a firmer feel. In between a standard synthetic and leather. I could probably have played it with the stock but the leather grip was a nice upgrade. Firmer, and a little bit of weight difference but not too much.
What leather grip are you using on your 97p?
 

flanker2000fr

Hall of Fame
I'm having quite a hard time adjusting to the Dunlop CX 200 Tour 16x19 after the 93P 14x18. I have trouble adjusting to the surprisingly flat launch angle for a 16x19. I guess that 97P will be on the cards in a not too distant future. Good thing I have a trip booked to Singapore early January...
 
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GeoffHYL

Professional
Still have to wait about a week before the new racquets are available. Very interested in the 97P. Will demo it ASAP.
 
What kind of "insert" are we talking about? Did they actually fill the internal void of the frame, at those spots, with Twaron, or they just added it in the laminate?
First would be just foolish, as simple rubber inserts would be more effective for vibration and 10x cheaper.
Second wouldn't have the effect you are hoping for - it is bearly heavier then graphite and still lighter than simple fibreglass.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
 

GeoffHYL

Professional
I thought the new racquets would be on the TW site today, but they aren't there yet. Maybe some issue with updating the site?
 

GeoffHYL

Professional
Give it some time... no one was working yesterday due to New Year's.
Well, they did put 1/2/20 as the available date on their YouTube video, so they could have prepped everything for the web before the holiday, then made it live early today. Just saying they put out the expectation, so they should have prepared for it.
 

PistolPete23

Professional
What kind of "insert" are we talking about? Did they actually fill the internal void of the frame, at those spots, with Twaron, or they just added it in the laminate?
First would be just foolish, as simple rubber inserts would be more effective for vibration and 10x cheaper.
Second wouldn't have the effect you are hoping for - it is bearly heavier then graphite and still lighter than simple fibreglass.

Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk
It's rather difficult to gauge the effects of the Twaron without actually comparing identical racquets with/without the material. Twaron (i.e. Kevlar, aramid fiber) has dampening properties that carbon fiber doesn't possess, and comes in a variety of stiffness grades (i.e. high and low modulus Twaron). Racquets in the past have featured aramid fiber incorporated into the weave pattern of the layups, and you know there was substantial amounts because the manufacturers would specify the racquet composition (e.g. 80% graphite, 20% kevlar). For all we know, the application in the new Prince racquets could be merely a single layer for "looks", similar to what they did in the Triple Threat racquets of yore. I never buy into tech hype anymore. At the end of the day, I let the playability of the racquet determine whether the "tech" works for me.
 

Addxyz

Professional
Well, they did put 1/2/20 as the available date on their YouTube video, so they could have prepped everything for the web before the holiday, then made it live early today. Just saying they put out the expectation, so they should have prepared for it.
They were busy with the Head Prestige line it looks like. :laughing:
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Gen 1 TT95 is hands down the best feeling racquet I've ever played with, and that includes quite some time with the Prestige mid way back in the day - before the Prince longbody became a thing; assuming it's the TeXtreme in the shaft providing torsional stability without the usual inherent stiffness. Looks like they're adding TeXtreme/Twaron to 10 and 2 in the new Phantom models. If this is added to a Gen 3 TT95 it should make the hoop more stable as well. (If only it was a 97.)
 
Yes, several comments on the small sweet-spot on the 97P. Once they are available for demo we can get some additional feedback from TTW members and see if they agree.
Might have something to do with some of the play testers they had on that one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PistolPete23

Professional
It's rather difficult to gauge the effects of the Twaron without actually comparing identical racquets with/without the material. Twaron (i.e. Kevlar, aramid fiber) has dampening properties that carbon fiber doesn't possess, and comes in a variety of stiffness grades (i.e. high and low modulus Twaron). Racquets in the past have featured aramid fiber incorporated into the weave pattern of the layups, and you know there was substantial amounts because the manufacturers would specify the racquet composition (e.g. 80% graphite, 20% kevlar). For all we know, the application in the new Prince racquets could be merely a single layer for "looks", similar to what they did in the Triple Threat racquets of yore. I never buy into tech hype anymore. At the end of the day, I let the playability of the racquet determine whether the "tech" works for me.
Good news - the Textreme in the new Phantoms are functional and feature more than a single layer for cosmetics. I asked the Prince reps and was quite blown away that they actually answered.
 

BigM

Rookie
Grabbed some prince calfskin. They bleed colour a bit compared to the preinstalled ones on the 93P which are perfect but its a good grip anyway. Not too thick, not too hard, not too thin.
Hey where did you get the Prince Calf skin grips from?
 

flanker2000fr

Hall of Fame
Yes, several comments on the small sweet-spot on the 97P. Once they are available for demo we can get some additional feedback from TTW members and see if they agree.
Yup. So far their reviews makes me think of my feelings towards the Phantom Pro 100P - small sweet spot for its head size, unstable outside of it. Will wait for more feedback, but if confirmed, it will be a pass for me.
 

Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
How is it possible that the 97P with a 97" head and a 16x18 string pattern has a small sweet spot? The placement of mass and material makeup of the hoop? My 93P has a very small sweet spot, but that's expected on a 93" with 18x20 string pattern. The sweet spot is about the size of a baseball. Basically slightly larger than the size of the tennis ball itself. How big is the sweet spot of the 97P? If it's the size of a softball at the center, that's good enough for me. It doesn't need to be basketball sized.
 

rd0707

Rookie
How is it possible that the 97P with a 97" head and a 16x18 string pattern has a small sweet spot? The placement of mass and material makeup of the hoop? My 93P has a very small sweet spot, but that's expected on a 93" with 18x20 string pattern. The sweet spot is about the size of a baseball. Basically slightly larger than the size of the tennis ball itself. How big is the sweet spot of the 97P? If it's the size of a softball at the center, that's good enough for me. It doesn't need to be basketball sized.
All I can say is I use the 100P now. I have demoed 97P and have no complaints about the 97P sweet spot being small. I’m switching over to 97P.
 

flanker2000fr

Hall of Fame
All I can say is I use the 100P now. I have demoed 97P and have no complaints about the 97P sweet spot being small. I’m switching over to 97P.
How do you find the 97 plays vs. the 100P? I found the latter good on ground strokes for power and spin, but a bit erratic / unstable outside the sweet spot. I also found it quite under powered on serve. Is the 97P better in those areas?
 

rd0707

Rookie
How do you find the 97 plays vs. the 100P? I found the latter good on ground strokes for power and spin, but a bit erratic / unstable outside the sweet spot. I also found it quite under powered on serve. Is the 97P better in those areas?
The extra weight allows the racquet to do more of the work. Can get good pace and depth on ground strokes. Great feel, spin as noted on the 100P. I noticed more kick on my serve. I am not a power server given in my 40's now and play on clay so I am more of a spot server. It took me a couple weeks to get used to the extra weight as I have been using the 10.9 ounce racquet (unstrung weight) for many years now going back to the original 03 Tour. Hope that helps.
 

flanker2000fr

Hall of Fame
The extra weight allows the racquet to do more of the work. Can get good pace and depth on ground strokes. Great feel, spin as noted on the 100P. I noticed more kick on my serve. I am not a power server given in my 40's now and play on clay so I am more of a spot server. It took me a couple weeks to get used to the extra weight as I have been using the 10.9 ounce racquet (unstrung weight) for many years now going back to the original 03 Tour. Hope that helps.
That makes sense, thanks. I think I struggle on serve with the 100P because it is really polarized, and slightly less headlight than the other Phantom's, which is the only way to achieve such high SW wih a 310g frame. I seem to have issues generating good racquet head speed overhead with it. As opposed to serving with a heavier frame that is more headlight, i.e. the 93P, which I find very good on serve. Seems like the 97P is a happy medium here.
 

time_fly

Hall of Fame
Reading between the lines, it seems like the new 97P was the least favorite new Phantom for the TW playtesters. Disappointing, since I tend to gravitate towards that 97 / 98 head size. Then again, I liked the Beast 98 which a couple of the playtesters panned. Has anyone else tried the 97P and compared it against the other new Phantoms or other frames with similar specs?
 
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