'Right in my wheelhouse' - I've got the strangest feeling I saw someone use just that phrase on a video somewhere...
Just about eveyone in the TW playtest/review videos.
'Right in my wheelhouse' - I've got the strangest feeling I saw someone use just that phrase on a video somewhere...
'Right in my wheelhouse' - I've got the strangest feeling I saw someone use just that phrase on a video somewhere...
Hey everyone, I wanted to put in my thoughts/observations/discoveries about the Phantom Pro 100P vibration issues. I am both involved in what we're doing with Prince and the TW demo program so I have a double vested interest in this conversation.
As was suspected by at least one user, we initially strung all of the poly demos with Beast XP 17, in glorious pea soup green, at 48 lbs. This is a pretty stiff poly, which makes the low tension sensical on a frame with a range of 45-55. Our standard demo procedure is to string polys at 2 under the mid tension and multis at 2 over, which works well for the vast majority of frame and string combinations.
To start my investigation I pulled a few 100P demos and checked them out to see what the vibration was like. My initial thoughts were that it felt pretty bad with a similar sound to what is seen in the videos. However, and I'm going to be that guy, the issue is almost completely removed by simply using a dampener. Even a basic two string TW damp helped tremendously. I know some players don't like using a dampener, but it does significantly help string based vibration. Even with that partial fix I still wanted to find the cause of the problem.
After my initial impression I did some testing with the same demos and some different strings to make sure the frames weren't duds. First I tried Tour XR 16 and Tour XC 15L, both strung at 50. Tour XR wasn't much better than the Beast XP, which didn't surprise me as it's also very stiff. Tour XC felt better, even in 15L, but the vibration wasn't completely gone. Just to make sure it wasn't the racquet I tried some Duraflex 16 at 55, and there was no issue. Great, it must be the string. As such, I finally threw out a real longshot and strung one frame with the Beast XP at a higher tension of 55. No vibration. Completely gone. This leads me to believe that stiff poly strings at lower reference tensions (combined with tension loss over time) are the main culprit here. This isn't the first time we've seen a racquet have dramatic feel changes depending on the tension of the string, so I can't say I'm totally surprised with this situation. Still an interesting realization.
As a note, the Phantom 100 and non P Phantom Pro don't seem to have these same problems, even with Beast XP at lower tensions. Same with the various Beast racquets. Very odd.
What's the fix? I think it's fair to say that Prince hasn't produced any exceptional poly strings in the last few years, which makes my immediate remedies stopgaps at best. We've been helping develop some softer poly strings that are coming down the road, but they're not available yet. As such, my temporary solution is to switch our Prince poly demos to Tour XC in banana yellow and string the frames at a higher tension. When the new strings come I'll revisit the situation and consider switching again. I'm also putting Prince P dampeners on them, take it or leave it.
Thanks for bringing this issue to light, J011yroger. Let me know if you want a redo with a different string setup. I'll keep checking this thread to follow the conversation.
Regards,
Michael, TW
LOL...the person from TW said exactly the opposite (see below). Stiff poly at low tensions caused the ping/vibration and higher tensions eliminated it.
Can someone please compare the old tour 100 exo3 16/18 to phantom 100?Does it worth to change to p100 or probably switching to ppro100 is a better idea to gain more control, stability and feel?
Thanks for your answer, can you compare the pro100p to dr98 or pog midplus? I play with these also but although i like the feel, control and stabilist of the pog i find it a bit sluggish through the air and low power for my taste, is pro100p better at this?My thoughts are the Phantom 100 with o ports is pretty similar to the frames you mentioned. So for me there wasn't much value in buying the Phantom 100 other than having a new color scheme. I have tried the Pro 100P which feels much different than the o port Phantom. I will be trying the Pro 100 in the next few days and will then decide between the Pro 100P or Pro 100.
Sorry can't comment. Since about 2005 I have been using Prince O ports which include 03 Tour, Ozone Tour, EX03 Tour, Tour 100.Thanks for your answer, can you compare the pro100p to dr98 or pog midplus? I play with these also but although i like the feel, control and stabilist of the pog i find it a bit sluggish through the air and low power for my taste, is pro100p better at this?
Then the one with Ports seems specced out really nicely, but I believe many people say they can't feel the ball. Which was an issue for me with soft racquets and ports.
I'm not sure how numb your hands have to be to not feel the ball with the Phantom 100. I have that racket with vibration dampener and 3 overgrips (yeah I like soft grips) and I have no problem "feeling" the ball. I know precisely where it hit on the racket face and precisely where it's going to go as it leaves. Not sure what else you need to "feel".
Ball feel is entirely dependent on racket deflection and recoil, since that is all that is transmitted to your hands (well string vibration too but that doesn't give much useful information and is better off removed IMO). I certainly do not think ports will substantially alter racket deflection or recoil other than allowing a bit more delay in recoil (sometimes called ball pocketing).
Anyway, I think people are just used to certain deflection and recoil characteristics and find the Phantom's as alien to their predisposed biases. So they use terms like "no feel" which is a somewhat negative way to say "different feel from what I like and am used to".
I'm not sure how numb your hands have to be to not feel the ball with the Phantom 100. I have that racket with vibration dampener and 3 overgrips (yeah I like soft grips) and I have no problem "feeling" the ball. I know precisely where it hit on the racket face and precisely where it's going to go as it leaves. Not sure what else you need to "feel".
Ball feel is entirely dependent on racket deflection and recoil, since that is all that is transmitted to your hands (well string vibration too but that doesn't give much useful information and is better off removed IMO). I certainly do not think ports will substantially alter racket deflection or recoil other than allowing a bit more delay in recoil (sometimes called ball pocketing).
Anyway, I think people are just used to certain deflection and recoil characteristics and find the Phantom's as alien to their predisposed biases. So they use terms like "no feel" which is a somewhat negative way to say "different feel from what I like and am used to".
NSS!!Just about eveyone in the TW playtest/review videos.
For me the PP100 is a bridge between the other two Phantoms and doesn't have any tie off issues. I think the PP100P has more universal appeal as it's not as flexible as the other two but still very comfortable and the box beam design is just beautiful. Prince has done a awesome job with the Phantom line.
Now I am super curious about the 93.
I would really really love a 97-98in Phantom in 16x20 pattern. I’m going to keep trucking with the 93 but for me the 100p is easier to use.
The 93P will make you a better player. Even if you are not comfortable to take it to match play yet, just using it when you practice will make you a tennis player. The secret to the 93P (and winning in tennis) is legit footwork.
^^
Nice. Looks like we are going in different directions. I have both and am sending back the P100P and keeping the 93.
Both offerings are really sweet. Just matters what you are into.
Of the all the Phantom 100s the 100P in the specs say two piece string job vs one piece. Is that because the 100P mains finish at the bottom and they always want you to do crosses top from bottom?
Oh I’m keeping both-they are that good. I’ll use the 93 mostly because of the serve and one hand backhand. If they happen to make a 97-98 version I’ll buy that too. Prince is back!!!The 93P will make you a better player. Even if you are not comfortable to take it to match play yet, just using it when you practice will make you a tennis player. The secret to the 93P (and winning in tennis) is legit footwork.
PP-you should hit the 100p stock before you return it!
After googling it, appears stringing crosses bottom up creates stress on the racquet.Probably. I strung mine one piece. Didn’t have any issues with it. That cross tie off hole at the bottom looks a bit small.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
After googling it, appears stringing crosses bottom up creates stress on the racquet.
The P100 and the P100P must be amazing because I am not seeing any on the sale/trade section
I sent mine back to TW for credit. Figured that was easier than selling it and dealing with shipping and paypal fees. It's actually a pretty great frame, but too similar to the old EXO tour for me. I like to dictate play more and the 93P is perfect for that.
How much did TW pay for that?
I believe you can get 75% of value if its like new. So i should get 175.
75% of $200 = $150.
![]()
The 93P will make you a better player. Even if you are not comfortable to take it to match play yet, just using it when you practice will make you a tennis player. The secret to the 93P (and winning in tennis) is legit footwork.
Cant Demo a PP Phantom where i live, so i think i buy one without Demo.
Can anyone tell me how thick the Grip is on the Phantoms? Dont know if i should take L2 or L3.
For Reference a Grip 3 on Angell is far to Big. And a Wilson Grip 3 is a little to big, but o.k.
I have a similar 2hbh. I brush it a decent amount, but I do attack with it sometimes as I can hit it down the line. I am surprised at how solid my backhand has been with the 93p. I love hitting it. But I have worked a lot on technique over the past 2 years and really built my backhand into a much more consistent shot. I think a lot of it boils down to technique. My old coach used to say "it's not the racquet!".
Prince grips seem smaller than Wilson or head to me. I’d go with a 2 to be on the safe side as you can put an overgrip on. Far better to player with a slightly too small grip than one too big in my experience.Cant Demo a PP Phantom where i live, so i think i buy one without Demo.
Can anyone tell me how thick the Grip is on the Phantoms? Dont know if i should take L2 or L3.
For Reference a Grip 3 on Angell is far to Big. And a Wilson Grip 3 is a little to big, but o.k.
I am very happy with my PP100P. But i have gut-poly in mine, which transformed it.
Prince grips seem smaller than Wilson or head to me. I’d go with a 2 to be on the safe side as you can put an overgrip on. Far better to player with a slightly too small grip than one too big in my experience.
I don't think it's any bigger or smaller. If you measure it with a tape measure, you'll see that it's to spec. It may feel smaller because it has an octagonal shape and the symmetry on all sides feels smaller since no matter how you hold it, it always feels the same. Head grips are the complete opposite. They feel like holding a 2x4.