Prince Phantom Pro and Phantom Pro100P

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Just got my P100P. Hope to hit with it tonight. I am happy to say that even though it is strung in the 40's, I have no issue with vibrations at all. It feels very similar to a classic frame off the bounce. Nice and muted, but I need to hit balls with it before I can say more. I believe the vibration issue may be due to the Prince string. I always use RS Lyon 17 and it has never done me wrong, so I hope that continues with the Prince.

I did add 4 grams of lead at 12 since it swung a little light for me out of the box. Got the balance more towards 4-5pts HL, which I prefer. I am guessing the SW is 338-342, which is perfect on standard length. Weight is 335 with grip and dampener. This is essentially right in my wheelhouse.
'Right in my wheelhouse' - I've got the strangest feeling I saw someone use just that phrase on a video somewhere...
 

Addxyz

Professional
You guys should read J011y's video review thread. There was a post from someone at TW acknowledging if you string up the 100P with stiff poly at higher tension you'll get a nasty ping / vibration.
 

Jay Winzenz

New User
LOL...the person from TW said exactly the opposite (see below). Stiff poly at low tensions caused the ping/vibration and higher tensions eliminated it.

Hey everyone, I wanted to put in my thoughts/observations/discoveries about the Phantom Pro 100P vibration issues. I am both involved in what we're doing with Prince and the TW demo program so I have a double vested interest in this conversation.

As was suspected by at least one user, we initially strung all of the poly demos with Beast XP 17, in glorious pea soup green, at 48 lbs. This is a pretty stiff poly, which makes the low tension sensical on a frame with a range of 45-55. Our standard demo procedure is to string polys at 2 under the mid tension and multis at 2 over, which works well for the vast majority of frame and string combinations.

To start my investigation I pulled a few 100P demos and checked them out to see what the vibration was like. My initial thoughts were that it felt pretty bad with a similar sound to what is seen in the videos. However, and I'm going to be that guy, the issue is almost completely removed by simply using a dampener. Even a basic two string TW damp helped tremendously. I know some players don't like using a dampener, but it does significantly help string based vibration. Even with that partial fix I still wanted to find the cause of the problem.

After my initial impression I did some testing with the same demos and some different strings to make sure the frames weren't duds. First I tried Tour XR 16 and Tour XC 15L, both strung at 50. Tour XR wasn't much better than the Beast XP, which didn't surprise me as it's also very stiff. Tour XC felt better, even in 15L, but the vibration wasn't completely gone. Just to make sure it wasn't the racquet I tried some Duraflex 16 at 55, and there was no issue. Great, it must be the string. As such, I finally threw out a real longshot and strung one frame with the Beast XP at a higher tension of 55. No vibration. Completely gone. This leads me to believe that stiff poly strings at lower reference tensions (combined with tension loss over time) are the main culprit here. This isn't the first time we've seen a racquet have dramatic feel changes depending on the tension of the string, so I can't say I'm totally surprised with this situation. Still an interesting realization.

As a note, the Phantom 100 and non P Phantom Pro don't seem to have these same problems, even with Beast XP at lower tensions. Same with the various Beast racquets. Very odd.

What's the fix? I think it's fair to say that Prince hasn't produced any exceptional poly strings in the last few years, which makes my immediate remedies stopgaps at best. We've been helping develop some softer poly strings that are coming down the road, but they're not available yet. As such, my temporary solution is to switch our Prince poly demos to Tour XC in banana yellow and string the frames at a higher tension. When the new strings come I'll revisit the situation and consider switching again. I'm also putting Prince P dampeners on them, take it or leave it.

Thanks for bringing this issue to light, J011yroger. Let me know if you want a redo with a different string setup. I'll keep checking this thread to follow the conversation.

Regards,
Michael, TW
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Yep, and he suspects it is the Prince string causing it. So far, so good - no bad vibes with RS Lyon at 48#s off the stringer.
 

Nick777

Semi-Pro
Can someone please compare the old tour 100 exo3 16/18 to phantom 100?Does it worth to change to p100 or probably switching to ppro100 is a better idea to gain more control, stability and feel?
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
@dgoran Which Phantom do you use and are you still using it? I can't keep track of what is what anymore with the similar names.

I should finally be able to try the P100P today.

Seems like a lot of people like the P100 with no ports too. That frame would need some beef at 12 though, probably 6 grams for me, which may throw the balance off by too much.

Then the one with Ports seems specced out really nicely, but I believe many people say they can't feel the ball. Which was an issue for me with soft racquets and ports.

Tough to really get a general consensus on these frames.
 

rd0707

Rookie
Can someone please compare the old tour 100 exo3 16/18 to phantom 100?Does it worth to change to p100 or probably switching to ppro100 is a better idea to gain more control, stability and feel?
My thoughts are the Phantom 100 with o ports is pretty similar to the frames you mentioned. So for me there wasn't much value in buying the Phantom 100 other than having a new color scheme. I have tried the Pro 100P which feels much different than the o port Phantom. I will be trying the Pro 100 in the next few days and will then decide between the Pro 100P or Pro 100.
 

Nick777

Semi-Pro
My thoughts are the Phantom 100 with o ports is pretty similar to the frames you mentioned. So for me there wasn't much value in buying the Phantom 100 other than having a new color scheme. I have tried the Pro 100P which feels much different than the o port Phantom. I will be trying the Pro 100 in the next few days and will then decide between the Pro 100P or Pro 100.
Thanks for your answer, can you compare the pro100p to dr98 or pog midplus? I play with these also but although i like the feel, control and stabilist of the pog i find it a bit sluggish through the air and low power for my taste, is pro100p better at this?
 

rd0707

Rookie
Thanks for your answer, can you compare the pro100p to dr98 or pog midplus? I play with these also but although i like the feel, control and stabilist of the pog i find it a bit sluggish through the air and low power for my taste, is pro100p better at this?
Sorry can't comment. Since about 2005 I have been using Prince O ports which include 03 Tour, Ozone Tour, EX03 Tour, Tour 100.
 

Dartagnan64

G.O.A.T.
Then the one with Ports seems specced out really nicely, but I believe many people say they can't feel the ball. Which was an issue for me with soft racquets and ports.
I'm not sure how numb your hands have to be to not feel the ball with the Phantom 100. I have that racket with vibration dampener and 3 overgrips (yeah I like soft grips) and I have no problem "feeling" the ball. I know precisely where it hit on the racket face and precisely where it's going to go as it leaves. Not sure what else you need to "feel".

Ball feel is entirely dependent on racket deflection and recoil, since that is all that is transmitted to your hands (well string vibration too but that doesn't give much useful information and is better off removed IMO). I certainly do not think ports will substantially alter racket deflection or recoil other than allowing a bit more delay in recoil (sometimes called ball pocketing).

Anyway, I think people are just used to certain deflection and recoil characteristics and find the Phantom's as alien to their predisposed biases. So they use terms like "no feel" which is a somewhat negative way to say "different feel from what I like and am used to".
 

Racer41c

Professional
I'm not sure how numb your hands have to be to not feel the ball with the Phantom 100. I have that racket with vibration dampener and 3 overgrips (yeah I like soft grips) and I have no problem "feeling" the ball. I know precisely where it hit on the racket face and precisely where it's going to go as it leaves. Not sure what else you need to "feel".

Ball feel is entirely dependent on racket deflection and recoil, since that is all that is transmitted to your hands (well string vibration too but that doesn't give much useful information and is better off removed IMO). I certainly do not think ports will substantially alter racket deflection or recoil other than allowing a bit more delay in recoil (sometimes called ball pocketing).

Anyway, I think people are just used to certain deflection and recoil characteristics and find the Phantom's as alien to their predisposed biases. So they use terms like "no feel" which is a somewhat negative way to say "different feel from what I like and am used to".
I agree. I'm more of a feel player than a ball basher. But regardless of how soft my string bed and racquet are, I'm able to place the ball where I want unless the power is way high or way low or the racquet is way light. I also used to play with graphene radical pros. Thats a fairly crisp response and yeah there's more dynamic response from that frame, but it doesn't help me feel where the ball is going any better. To me, the biggest part of what does affect where/how I'm swinging the racquet is the weight of the racquet relative to the point of contact. What I like about the Pro 100's is that the center of mass at contact feels like it's surrounds the ball, which is the best feeling for me.
 

tata

Hall of Fame
Same. Used ported frames a while for a long time ago. Never had an issue telling if the ball was going long or not. It is quite obvious after contact if you struck a good ball or not. Even if the string bed is soft and muted you can still tell where you struck the ball (upper hoop, lower hoop, 3 or 9 o'clock) and where you made contact and at what racquet face angle. Personally, that in itself, is enough to give me feedback and feel of where the ball is going to go. But maybe I am just used to it while others live and die that feel affects their ability to tell if a ball is going in or not.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
I'm not sure how numb your hands have to be to not feel the ball with the Phantom 100. I have that racket with vibration dampener and 3 overgrips (yeah I like soft grips) and I have no problem "feeling" the ball. I know precisely where it hit on the racket face and precisely where it's going to go as it leaves. Not sure what else you need to "feel".

Ball feel is entirely dependent on racket deflection and recoil, since that is all that is transmitted to your hands (well string vibration too but that doesn't give much useful information and is better off removed IMO). I certainly do not think ports will substantially alter racket deflection or recoil other than allowing a bit more delay in recoil (sometimes called ball pocketing).

Anyway, I think people are just used to certain deflection and recoil characteristics and find the Phantom's as alien to their predisposed biases. So they use terms like "no feel" which is a somewhat negative way to say "different feel from what I like and am used to".
Wow you got really triggered by that eh?

I had that experience with older ported prince frames and was reading some feedback along those lines by others in here. Its a subjective thing. No need to get that defensive about an inanimate object.

To be clear - i was asking about the different phantoms. I only have the 93p and 100p.
 

ProRadTour

Semi-Pro
Just to comment on the stringbed response and tie off issue with the PP100P, after stretching out the tie offs with an awl it has completely changed the response from the string bed for the better much more consistent response. I am now stringing it 46/44 and the sweet spot has also opened up. It's a great frame, if you prefer a firmer uniform response from your frames I would recommend the PP100P, if you prefer a softer flexible response than I would recommend the PP100. The P100 (with ports) is also a nice frame but there is a lot to adjust to in terms of feel and even sound when swinging through the air and the ported frames just more challenging to string.

For me the PP100 is a bridge between the other two Phantoms and doesn't have any tie off issues. I think the PP100P has more universal appeal as it's not as flexible as the other two but still very comfortable and the box beam design is just beautiful. Prince has done a awesome job with the Phantom line.

Now I am super curious about the 93.
 
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Power Player

Bionic Poster
I hit with the 100P. It feels real nice, I was enjoying the box beam feel. But the problem is that I also have a 93P and that stole the show. I think when it comes to 100s, I am still a Babolat tweener type of guy. But when it comes to a thin beamed, midrange frame that is a blast to use - Well I am indeed a Phantomite.
 

sma1001

Hall of Fame
For me the PP100 is a bridge between the other two Phantoms and doesn't have any tie off issues. I think the PP100P has more universal appeal as it's not as flexible as the other two but still very comfortable and the box beam design is just beautiful. Prince has done a awesome job with the Phantom line.

Now I am super curious about the 93.
My thoughts exactly.
 

Zlatni

Rookie
I got the pp100p couple of days ago. I strung it up with silverstring 16 at 44/42.
I hit with it with my regular hitting partner for about 45 minutes and then we played a set before the rains came.

I was not sure how this racquet would hold up to heavy hitting, given how thin the beam is. I have couple of PCG100s, and while I liked playing with those, they just felt a bit unstable outside the sweet spot.

I am happy to say that pp100p felt very stable. We played with Dunlop balls which feel much heavier than pens and wilsons, and the frame felt very stable. It was also about 50 degrees this morning.
This frame has a fairly low launch angle for a 16x18 frame. In fact the string spacing in the middle is denser than TT95.
Forehand felt really good. The litmus test for me is control on running forehands when stretched wide. The racquet performed really well hitting both top spin and squash shots.
Backhands were great. Slices very superb. I had couple of really good top spin cross court backhand winners from the middle of the court.
But it was the serve that surprised me.
I was expecting fairly low power, based on my experience with previous generation Tour 100. This racquet was not lackluster when it came to power. It was a great blend of power and control. Spin serves were well controlled, and flat serves had ample pace and good control. Serves were not as powerful as with the EXO3 Graphite 100, but they were close, and definitely more precise.
One thing that surprised me was the fact that I was able to hit flat forehands with it. With Tour 100 and Exo Graphite 100 I do not have much control when hitting flat. Those racquets like to spin the ball. With PP100P I had no trouble hitting flat.
I plan on playing 4-5 sets tomorrow, so we will see whether the honeymoon continues.


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Power Player

Bionic Poster
^^
Nice. Looks like we are going in different directions. I have both and am sending back the P100P and keeping the 93.

Both offerings are really sweet. Just matters what you are into.
 

JOSHL

Hall of Fame
I would really really love a 97-98in Phantom in 16x20 pattern. I’m going to keep trucking with the 93 but for me the 100p is easier to use.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
I would really really love a 97-98in Phantom in 16x20 pattern. I’m going to keep trucking with the 93 but for me the 100p is easier to use.
The 93P will make you a better player. Even if you are not comfortable to take it to match play yet, just using it when you practice will make you a tennis player. The secret to the 93P (and winning in tennis) is legit footwork.
 

Zlatni

Rookie
The 93P will make you a better player. Even if you are not comfortable to take it to match play yet, just using it when you practice will make you a tennis player. The secret to the 93P (and winning in tennis) is legit footwork.
I completely agree. There are days where my Gamma Tour 340x feels awesome, and there are days where I have a hard time finding a sweet spot.


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Zlatni

Rookie
^^
Nice. Looks like we are going in different directions. I have both and am sending back the P100P and keeping the 93.

Both offerings are really sweet. Just matters what you are into.
I would love to be able to play with a 93 all the time. My problem is that my backhand is naturally a spinnier shot for me - I have a 2 hand uppercut swing. 100 sq inch just gives me slightly more margin.
I will agree with you that something like a 93p is a much better serving racquet. Gamma 340x and iprestige mid make holding serve very easy.



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Power Player

Bionic Poster
I have a similar 2hbh. I brush it a decent amount, but I do attack with it sometimes as I can hit it down the line. I am surprised at how solid my backhand has been with the 93p. I love hitting it. But I have worked a lot on technique over the past 2 years and really built my backhand into a much more consistent shot. I think a lot of it boils down to technique. My old coach used to say "it's not the racquet!".
 

rd0707

Rookie
Of the all the Phantom 100s the 100P in the specs say two piece string job vs one piece. Is that because the 100P mains finish at the bottom and they always want you to do crosses top from bottom?
 

Zlatni

Rookie
Of the all the Phantom 100s the 100P in the specs say two piece string job vs one piece. Is that because the 100P mains finish at the bottom and they always want you to do crosses top from bottom?
Probably. I strung mine one piece. Didn’t have any issues with it. That cross tie off hole at the bottom looks a bit small.


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JOSHL

Hall of Fame
The 93P will make you a better player. Even if you are not comfortable to take it to match play yet, just using it when you practice will make you a tennis player. The secret to the 93P (and winning in tennis) is legit footwork.
Oh I’m keeping both-they are that good. I’ll use the 93 mostly because of the serve and one hand backhand. If they happen to make a 97-98 version I’ll buy that too. Prince is back!!!
 

ONgame

Semi-Pro
The P100 and the P100P must be amazing because I am not seeing any on the sale/trade section.
Or are people not buying them?
Now I'm tempted to blind buy...(demo unavailable where I live)
 

tata

Hall of Fame
I think the pro 100p really benefits from a polarized set up. I played with 1.5g at 12 and after another session I am really loving this. It has made my volley game so much better. I haven't felt nearly this good for ages since using the Diablo mid days albeit not as beefy but playing like a younger brother to it.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
I sent mine back to TW for credit. Figured that was easier than selling it and dealing with shipping and paypal fees. It's actually a pretty great frame, but too similar to the old EXO tour for me. I like to dictate play more and the 93P is perfect for that.
 

scotus

G.O.A.T.
I sent mine back to TW for credit. Figured that was easier than selling it and dealing with shipping and paypal fees. It's actually a pretty great frame, but too similar to the old EXO tour for me. I like to dictate play more and the 93P is perfect for that.
How much did TW pay for that?
 

Gamechanger

New User
Cant Demo a PP Phantom where i live, so i think i buy one without Demo.

Can anyone tell me how thick the Grip is on the Phantoms? Dont know if i should take L2 or L3.

For Reference a Grip 3 on Angell is far to Big. And a Wilson Grip 3 is a little to big, but o.k.
 

BobbyDe

New User
The 93P will make you a better player. Even if you are not comfortable to take it to match play yet, just using it when you practice will make you a tennis player. The secret to the 93P (and winning in tennis) is legit footwork.
Agree with this. When I first took tennis up again after many years out I bought a Prince exo3 black team which I loved but after a while I craved something with less free power and more control. I ended up with ig prestige pro which gives no free power but forces you to improve your game by getting into position and swinging hard, but as someone who only plays two or three times a week it would let me down on an off day. I’ve now settled on ig speed mp (18x20) which has the right blend of control, power and forgiveness for my game. But playing with an unforgiving racquet is good advice for someone looking to improve technique and footwork.

When I was younger I played with a prince racquet so have always had a soft spot for prince which is why the Phantom line interests me.
 

Power Player

Bionic Poster
Cant Demo a PP Phantom where i live, so i think i buy one without Demo.

Can anyone tell me how thick the Grip is on the Phantoms? Dont know if i should take L2 or L3.

For Reference a Grip 3 on Angell is far to Big. And a Wilson Grip 3 is a little to big, but o.k.
I think grip 3 in prince will be ideal for you then.
 

BobbyDe

New User
I have a similar 2hbh. I brush it a decent amount, but I do attack with it sometimes as I can hit it down the line. I am surprised at how solid my backhand has been with the 93p. I love hitting it. But I have worked a lot on technique over the past 2 years and really built my backhand into a much more consistent shot. I think a lot of it boils down to technique. My old coach used to say "it's not the racquet!".
Same as my old coach. His words were “footwork is more important than choice of racquet”
 

BobbyDe

New User
Cant Demo a PP Phantom where i live, so i think i buy one without Demo.

Can anyone tell me how thick the Grip is on the Phantoms? Dont know if i should take L2 or L3.

For Reference a Grip 3 on Angell is far to Big. And a Wilson Grip 3 is a little to big, but o.k.
Prince grips seem smaller than Wilson or head to me. I’d go with a 2 to be on the safe side as you can put an overgrip on. Far better to player with a slightly too small grip than one too big in my experience.
 

Zlatni

Rookie
I am very happy with my PP100P. But i have gut-poly in mine, which transformed it.
I think I might try that setup. I played couple of more sets with it today. When I started it was overcast and in the 50s. By the middle of the second set it was in the 70s and the sun was out. Add to that the fact that the strings lost some of the tension, and I was having a hard time controlling the forehand. Backhand and serve was still great.

I picked up my TT95 for the last 2 sets, and while the serve and control was improved, there was a definite drop in the pace of the ground strokes. TT95 plays great for me when I am fresh, but after couple of sets it becomes harder to end the points. PP100P has that extra gear. Not tweener like, but plenty for me.


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Tommy Haas

Hall of Fame
Prince grips seem smaller than Wilson or head to me. I’d go with a 2 to be on the safe side as you can put an overgrip on. Far better to player with a slightly too small grip than one too big in my experience.
I don't think it's any bigger or smaller. If you measure it with a tape measure, you'll see that it's to spec. It may feel smaller because it has an octagonal shape and the symmetry on all sides feels smaller since no matter how you hold it, it always feels the same. Head grips are the complete opposite. They feel like holding a 2x4.
 
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