While I have been searching for my new racquet after a 20 year layoff, I have been playing with a lot of new racquets as demos and periodically pulling out my old 80's sticks. In a previous post, I talked about how much I still like my Yonex R-22 over the current racquets I've tried out. The other day I pulled out my old Prince Woodie for fun. Turns out I hit it just as good as the R-22 and in some areas better. Suprisingly, I had very good placement and good pace on my ground strokes and serves. I can hit better slice backhand and volley better than anything new I've tried. Still love the R-22 but the Woodie hits great and has great feel and balance. Am I crazy to play with this today with all the new technology out there? I haven't found anything I like any better and I wouldn't know where to start to find a comparable feeling racquet with a few modern upgrades that improve upon the woodie feel. Any thought or feedback? Anyone else play with one or found a modern day comparable?
PRINCE WOODIE - Am I Crazy to Play with this Today?
- Thread starter toro22
- Start date
I can tell you the extra weight took a little getting used to. Serving was a little more tiring but played a couple long sets (close score and lots of deuces) and I held up pretty good although got a little tired serving towards the end. I don't see myself playing any 5 setters any time soon. I'm guessing if I play with it a while I'll get used to the weight more and won't get tired serving. Will people still string these if they break?
Bottle Rocket
Hall of Fame
I actually do think you're crazy. Don't take it personally, but you asked...
Have you tried the Pro Staff 85? The K90?
What level are you playing at? I suspect you might have different opinion if you were playing against someone that hits with extreme pace or top spin and depth. It would be extremely difficult to hang with one of these guys with a woodie. Then again, if you're a 5.0, I'll quit posting in this forum.
As much as people want to claim the racket doesn't make a difference, in this case, I think it does.
I would be interested to hear what rackets you have tried and what it is that didn't suit you. Have you tried the heavier players sticks with synthetic guts or multi's at higher tensions?
Capt. Willie
Hall of Fame
I had two of those back in the day (circa 1981-83). I loved those racquets. Unfortunately both cracked in about the same spot in the head....around 2:00 as I recall. By than they had been discontinued so I just moved on.
Like I said - out of game for roughly 20 years. Started back a couple months ago playing a few times a week. Started playing again around 3.5 being so long off. Now playing in the 4.0-4.5 range depending on the day. Backhand is still very rusty and consistency with my footwork getting in the right position isn't quite there yet. I'm a heavy topspinner and like to serve/volley some when I'm feeling it. At my best I was a 5.0 - 5.5 back in the day. I haven't tried any combination of different strings on any racquets yet. Racquets I've demo/tried over the past couple months:
1. Volkl V-10 engine
2. Head Flexpoint Radical Midplus
3. Prince Air Vanquish
4. Dunlop M-fil 300
5. Head TI.S2
6. Babolat Roddick OS
7. Slazenger X-1 Tim Henman
8. Head Flexpoint Instinct Midplus
Plus I've pulled out my old 80's classics and I can tell you I hit better with the Yonex R-22 and Woodie. I'm thinking the flexibility and weight must have something to do with it. It's impossible to try all racquets and all string options, etc... I think with more practice I can ge back to 5.0 even with a woodie but would love to find a modern day option that suits my game.
1. Volkl V-10 engine
2. Head Flexpoint Radical Midplus
3. Prince Air Vanquish
4. Dunlop M-fil 300
5. Head TI.S2
6. Babolat Roddick OS
7. Slazenger X-1 Tim Henman
8. Head Flexpoint Instinct Midplus
Plus I've pulled out my old 80's classics and I can tell you I hit better with the Yonex R-22 and Woodie. I'm thinking the flexibility and weight must have something to do with it. It's impossible to try all racquets and all string options, etc... I think with more practice I can ge back to 5.0 even with a woodie but would love to find a modern day option that suits my game.
I forgot to mention I pulled out my old ProKennex Silver Ace (my first racquet) and even hit it better than most of the newer frames. I know it is not a familiarity since I've taken so long off. I have heard great things about the Redondo and been tempted to give one a shot. Don't know whether to go with the apparently hard to find Mid or the MP. I like my R-22 which has 90" head and the Woodie which is over 100 so I don't know if size makes a huge difference to me as long as it is not too big. In fact, the one drawback with the R-22 it is a little tougher to volley with my hand/eye coordination not quite back 100% yet. But I don't want to buy a racquet planned around my game now, I'd rather buy for where it will be in a few more months. Still MP might be the right stick. How does it play?
I'm definitely interested in the Redondo. Would the Prince POG Mid or OS play similar to the Woodie? I know it's hard to have a composite play like a majority wood frame but I've heard good things about control and topspin with the POGs. It might be a good compromise. I haven't checked the specs on the POG to see how it sets up.
anirut
Legend
Toro,
If you like the feel of wood, I forgot about another PK model: Core 1 #6.
This model is a 95" head with WOOD CORE. Very comfortable, very sleek-looking, very spinny. Sadly it's not available at TW anymore.
However, it's still around in Asia. If you're interested, look for the email address of Xube001 (or 0001, I don't remember) in the Redondo thread and get in touch with him. You can find the specs and pics of this model at prokennex.com.
(The Redondo spec/pic at PK's site is of the older Heritage model. It's a never-resolved mistake)
If you like the feel of wood, I forgot about another PK model: Core 1 #6.
This model is a 95" head with WOOD CORE. Very comfortable, very sleek-looking, very spinny. Sadly it's not available at TW anymore.
However, it's still around in Asia. If you're interested, look for the email address of Xube001 (or 0001, I don't remember) in the Redondo thread and get in touch with him. You can find the specs and pics of this model at prokennex.com.
(The Redondo spec/pic at PK's site is of the older Heritage model. It's a never-resolved mistake)
galain
Hall of Fame
Toro
If you feel confident with what you're doing, you're having fun and you're hitting well, why should it make a difference? A few years ago I played A grade comp here in Oz (don't know what level that would be exactly in US terms) and won the final with a Golden Ace. I wasn't putting as many balls away, but I could still move the other guy around enough to get an easy finish.
If it's working for you and you're enjoying the game, stick with it I say.
If you feel confident with what you're doing, you're having fun and you're hitting well, why should it make a difference? A few years ago I played A grade comp here in Oz (don't know what level that would be exactly in US terms) and won the final with a Golden Ace. I wasn't putting as many balls away, but I could still move the other guy around enough to get an easy finish.
If it's working for you and you're enjoying the game, stick with it I say.
Ok - I appreciate the feedback and advice. I do have a question about why you can't play at a fairly high competitive level with this type of racquet. This isn't a small old schoot Jack Kramer, it is a fairly big racquet with a large sweetspot. I'm not trying to go pro so I won't be returning Roddick serves. What are the Reasons that you guys feel will prevent me from playing competitive 5.0 tennis? Is it the weight or do you feel it is the power or something else? Some of you may have real world experience to compare it to. Just curious while on my road back to playing a game I love.
I kind of have that same opinion but haven't seen too many wood racquets around lately and wanted to know what I'm really sacrificing versus using today's racquets. During some of my demos I found out what I am missing by using today's racquets. If I could find a great compromise frame that might be the ticket, so I was looking for suggestions on a great compromise frame but until I find it I will be playing the woodie. So far I've got a couple good suggestion like the PK's mentioned earlier and one guy said some of the newer heavy players racquets but I don't know where to start looking with that.
galain
Hall of Fame
Honestly, there is no real reason you couldn't play with it. String it at a reasonable poundage to get the strings working for you and you lose very little ball speed. See my post above - I played just as well with a midsized wood composite as I would have with my regular stick. I'm an all court player FWIW, but honestly, the only difference I noticed was having to hit perhaps one or two more balls - which wasn't really an issue. Perhaps the guys saying you shouldn't are baseliners? I could see you getting out hit from the baseline with more powerful gear I guess.
That's great feedback. Thanks. That raises a couple questions I've had but they might get lost in this thread. Maybe I should start a new thread. Oh well, I'll ask anyway.
1) Could a very good college player today or club pro beat someone like a Borg or McEnroe from the 70's if they were playing with their old small wood frames and the club pro/college player was using modern day equipment?
2) Are there any custom manufacturers tha make new wood/composite frames that can be bought today? I guess the PK Core racquets technically have some wood but I don't think they are majority wood.
galain
Hall of Fame
1) Probably. At that level I think the old wood frames would be a liability. I'm not under any illusions that I'm flying in the same airspace though, so I don't really care.
2) None that I know of. Snauwaert were probably the last of the big manufacturers I think, to make a wood and that was a good 20 years ago.
javier sergio
Professional
I don't think you are..........it happens to me something similar.
Actually I'm playing with this racquet (http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=1820268#post1820268).
It's been couple of weeks hitting with it and I'm doing it much better!
As a matter of fact I've been looking in the big auction site for a Prince Woodie
By the way talking about craziness I just bought this one to play;
Item number: 180175649867 (also from the big auction)
>Javier
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max
Legend
I'm on your side. Use the woodie. I think most folks would note that it might be tough for you to generate pace when pulled wide and the ball's coming fast. The weight might also be a factor in three sets and on the serve.
That's really the chief reason I had to set aside my Dunlop Max 200 Gs. I'm now using a Volkl C-9 weighted to 12.2 oz. I tried a lighter frame, but can't handle it well.
That's really the chief reason I had to set aside my Dunlop Max 200 Gs. I'm now using a Volkl C-9 weighted to 12.2 oz. I tried a lighter frame, but can't handle it well.
I actually remember back in high school during the off season switching racquets for a couple weeks for fun with a guy who had a Kneissl White Star - I think. I remember liking it but frankly can't remember much about playability besides it being a little clunkier than my Yonex I had at the time but I remember it had nice control and power.
Mick
Legend
I play with wood racquets a lot because most of my hitting partners are way below my level. I hit with a Prince Woodie once but didn't like it as much as smaller headsize wood racquets like the Wilson Jack Kramer or Donnay Borg Pro. To me, the smaller headsize racquets just feel a lot more solid at the point of contact.
Also, suppose somebody plays a competitive match with you, he would not know that you are handicapping yourself by using a wood racquet, as the Prince Woodie looks very much like a modern racquet. He just thinks that is the best tennis you could produce
Also, suppose somebody plays a competitive match with you, he would not know that you are handicapping yourself by using a wood racquet, as the Prince Woodie looks very much like a modern racquet. He just thinks that is the best tennis you could produce
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Also, suppose somebody plays a competitive match with you, he would not know that you are handicapping yourself by using a wood racquet, as the Prince Woodie looks very much like a modern racquet. He just thinks that is the best tennis you could produce
Trust me, everyone that I've played with, competitive or not, immediately notices the Woodie is a wood racquet. I think almost everyone likes to check out other people's racquets, so it doesn't sneak by. Most people have actually said "imagine how much better you would be if you weren't using it". Little do they know I hit is just as good as my other current options so in their mind they actually think I could be even better. Maybe when I find that perfect compromise stick I could take another step up. I'll keep on the lookout for that perfect blend of old and new and power and feel. In the meantime, it's the woodie.
stormholloway
Legend
Wood is the way it was supposed to be played. If you play better with it, then good on you. My buddy in D.C. plays with a Davis Classic II exclusively. I prefer the feel of a Kramer.
I think wood transmits feel better than any modern substance.
I think wood transmits feel better than any modern substance.
javier sergio
Professional
thanks for the advise
circusmouse
Rookie
You said that you play with heavy topspin, and I think that's where the woodie is a liability. You'll probably struggle to achieve the kind of racquet head speed as with a graphite because of the weight of wood. This will probably be most obvious on kick serves. Try hitting kick serves for a while with your woodie and with a graphite and see how they compare. If you can do it just as well with the woodie, then you're fine.
Also, several of the racquets you demoed were not even remotely wood-like. With the possible exception of the Slazenger (which I don't have info on) none of the racquets is below 62 flex. If you want a wood-like feel, you should be looking at low-flex racquets.
Also, several of the racquets you demoed were not even remotely wood-like. With the possible exception of the Slazenger (which I don't have info on) none of the racquets is below 62 flex. If you want a wood-like feel, you should be looking at low-flex racquets.
I do hit heavy topspin with pretty good racquet head speed. I also hit a lot of slice approach backhands and it is like butter with those. I've found some racquets that hit good topspin were horrible at slicing. I think you are right about the flex being the key. My Yonex R-22 is a flexible racquet, too. The weight is also a factor. I don't hit a lot of kick serves. I hit more either flat hard serves or slight spin (not kick) and go for placement into the body or their weaker side. Slower spin allows me to have time to get to the net. Slower serve but good placement. Woodie works well for both. A kick serve would be nice to allow a little more time and create a tougher high return. I have served better with some of the other racquets - especially the slazenger - but as far as groundstrokes go, the flex and feel of the woodie were much better and more consistent moving them around the court. For those that have commented, yeah putting away winners aren't probably the strength of the racquet but it isn't bad - especially when placement is good. That's why a compromise racquet could be the answer but until then I'll go with the feel and control.
I would love to hit one. Never had a chance. May look for one for sale. I like collecting racquets anyway whether I use them regularly or not.
VGP
Legend
VGP
Legend
Yeah, I'm just messin'.....
It's just that Bottle Rocket posted a thread (based on his review) a while back on how he thought that no one could benefit from using the k90 these days.
toro22, I'm sure your audacity to use a Prince Woodie these days is rubbing (certain) people the wrong way.......
It's just that Bottle Rocket posted a thread (based on his review) a while back on how he thought that no one could benefit from using the k90 these days.
toro22, I'm sure your audacity to use a Prince Woodie these days is rubbing (certain) people the wrong way.......
I don't think you're crazy (no idea why, if you're willing to defend your choice, you'd even ask) but I do think you're just delaying the inevitable. Replacing the feel will be impossible but you most certainly can find newer racquets that are more efficient. Try the Volkl C10, I think it'll be the closest fit in terms of flex.
Regardless, the Woodie is an oversize racquet with an open string pattern. It'd be a surprise if a decent player couldn't win using the Woodie: it's not like you're using a 68sq Dunlop Maxply.
Regardless, the Woodie is an oversize racquet with an open string pattern. It'd be a surprise if a decent player couldn't win using the Woodie: it's not like you're using a 68sq Dunlop Maxply.
The Crazy part was not serious but more a catchy headline to get some feedback and response. I was serious about whether there are real reasons that I should keep looking and if I would be able to find a nice compromise racquet and any suggestions. It was suprising to see how many people either like occasionally hitting with wood or think that playing competitively is possible. Until I find the racquet that can definitely create a measurable advantage for my game, I'll keep having fun and winning matches with the Woodie.
Not sure why using a Woodie would rub people the wrong way. I could see someone disagreeing and having their own idea of valid reasons - and that is what I was looking for - honest and informative feedback. Anyone that gets bothered over someone using a certain tennis racquet needs to do a little self evaluation and find out what is really causing their problems. Tennis is all about fun, competition, and a passion for the game - no time or need for negativity. Different racquets and their uniqueness is part of what makes tennis interesting and fun. So hopefully no one is getting rubbed the wrong way. Thanks for the reply.
javier sergio
Professional
Golden Ace another "great racquet"
Mick
Legend
Speaking from experience, usually, your opponents will.
You know those threads about how PS85, K90 are too demanding to use ?
Well, here you and I are on the tennis using some even more demanding racquets to play against them.
Intersting thread.
I agree you should use what you play best with, regardless.
I mostly still play with an Estusa power beam.
I am currently playing with a dnx10 mp, and really like it.
However, I find it hard to believe you cannot find a flexible
player's racket that does not give you more game than the woodie.
I don't think you have demo'd the right sticks.
I agree you should use what you play best with, regardless.
I mostly still play with an Estusa power beam.
I am currently playing with a dnx10 mp, and really like it.
However, I find it hard to believe you cannot find a flexible
player's racket that does not give you more game than the woodie.
I don't think you have demo'd the right sticks.
That was one of the main reasons for the thread. I can't possibly sort through everything out there and all string types and tensions. I have gotten some good suggestions. I have no problem trying something 10-15 years old, either. I think some of the new racquets have great benefits for certain types and I think some of it is just marketing and tennis companies making money - nothing wrong with it - capatilism at its best. But for prostaff lovers, is the origianl prostaff much different than today's K series federer racquet? I'm sure the differences are slight. I agree - I will look for more options but I won't feel pressured to use something less effective just because it is more modern technology.
You mean to say you can't find a racquet that has a measurable advantage over the Woodie? Back in the day, players moved away from the Woodie to the Graphite and Graphite Comp, plus other graphite frames, because they found that those racquets offered a measurable advantage in terms of power, spin and efficiency.
Bottle Rocket
Hall of Fame
Ok, here's a question.
You keep sticking to the claim that you hit just as well, if not better, with your woodie. How do you know?
The feel of the ball is one thing and your own perception of the shots is obviously important, but what the ball does on the other end of the net is what really matters and you're not playing against yourself.
I think you have to get the honest opinion of a hitting partner on the difference in your strokes using both rackets. I would bet you hit a much more effective (heavy, increased spin, increased pace) ball with a modern day frame with some weight behind it, like the kSix-One Tour 90. I suspect the difference in kick, spin, or pace on your serves would also be significant - even if you don't feel a difference.
I would love to see you playing in a tournament at the 5.0 level with your frame. If you can win some matches at that level, then I'd say you have more than just a little talent.
I am sort of assuming you're hitting with something like the original Wilson Jack Kramer, I don't know very much about your current racket. I do know that I have one of the more recent wooden rackets that was made made, a model from Pro Kennex (85 inch head I think), and I'd be at a significant disadvantage with it, especially against higher level opponents. Then again, I'm not a 5.0.
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You are assuming incorrect and that may change your mind a tad - not fully - but at least be more open to the idea. The woodie is nothing like a jack kramer or even you 85 inch PK. In fact, the woodie has a 100 sq. inch head. It has a split throat and it has a graphite reinforcement. Here are the specs on the side of the racquet "Hand crafted of select american ash and maple reinforced with multiple graphite inlays and multiple graphite overlays for optimum power, control, and durability"
As far as feedback from opponents, the best feedback is the scores. I've won more on my comeback trail with the woodie than others. They have also commented they were suprised of the pace I generated. They weren't expecting it. Once again, I'm not saying I couldn't benefit from a more modern racquet - just haven't found one yet that has given me benefits that weren't also offset by negatives. I'm sure they are out there or everyone would be using a woodie. I will keep looking.
Thanks for the pic, Mick. The woodie doesn't lack for size or big sweet spot. A 95 or 98 sq. in. version might make it a tad lighter and play even better. I'm curious if the Snauwaert Wood/Composites play similar to the Woodie.
HappyChappy
Rookie
why don't you just try a modern racquet with the same specs?
flex
stiffness
weight
headsize
flex
stiffness
weight
headsize
anirut
Legend
You can't find modern stuff with the Prince Woodie's specs. Period.
