Privates or drills?

RyanMorgan91

New User
Hi I am currently taking two half hour private lessons a week and after am in my club's junior league for 2 hours twice a week. Unfortunately I feel as if I'm not getting much out of the junior league because all we do is run drills, and I am better than most of the players. My question is, would you recommend doing more private lessons? or just continue with junior league? I can't decide.
 

Shashwat

Semi-Pro
I would do more privates just because this focus is on you and they actually tell you what you are doing wrong.
 

Bagumbawalla

G.O.A.T.
It is one thing to be told, or shown, how to do something correctly, and quite another to be able to execute perfect stroke mechanics under pressure during a critical point.

My suggestion would be to learn as much as you can from your private lessons, and practice/drill those things in your group session.

In addition to that, I suggest you go out and buy books on the history of tennis, tennis technique, and tennis strategy.

And in addition to that, I suggest that you drill on your own (with a good partner) practicing those things you need most to perfect.

If you are not, yet working on areobics and light weight training, I suggest you encorporate them into your schedule.

And with all that time left over, you should do your homework.
 

RyanMorgan91

New User
It is one thing to be told, or shown, how to do something correctly, and quite another to be able to execute perfect stroke mechanics under pressure during a critical point.

My suggestion would be to learn as much as you can from your private lessons, and practice/drill those things in your group session.

In addition to that, I suggest you go out and buy books on the history of tennis, tennis technique, and tennis strategy.

And in addition to that, I suggest that you drill on your own (with a good partner) practicing those things you need most to perfect.

If you are not, yet working on areobics and light weight training, I suggest you encorporate them into your schedule.

And with all that time left over, you should do your homework.


well see my mom isn't willing to pay for both privates and group so I need to choose one. And also are there any books that you would recommend?
 

Bagumbawalla

G.O.A.T.
OK, if it's either-or, I'd stick with the private lessons and find a practice partner to drill with.

As far as books, I'd just go to the biggest bookstore you can find and see what they have. A bookstore with a good sports section should have at least twenty books (usually more) to choose from. Look through them and see what suits you. The library is another possibility. Since you may have to give up the club drills, a book on drills might be good.
 

NoBadMojo

G.O.A.T.
well see my mom isn't willing to pay for both privates and group so I need to choose one. And also are there any books that you would recommend?

here's what i suggest. dont take 30 minute lessons. instead of the 2 30minute lessons a week, take one hour lesson a week. this will likely also save you some money. seee if your teaching pro has a drill clinic with people of your own level <those are usually inexpensive>. in between those two, i suggest one drill session with one of your pals who is at least as good as you, and also your normal weekly match play, and also some dubs if you can fit it in. this will give you a very well rounded setup.
 

Mountain Ghost

Professional
Lessons and Drills

I too would advise going for a single one-hour lesson a week instead of two 30-minute lessons. It often takes quite a number of repetitions to correct whatever is being dealt with, and half an hour sometimes isn’t enough to deal with variables such as the different types of feeds and progressions needed to cover things thoroughly. A one-hour lesson also gives the pro time to temporarily move on to something else, and then go back to the primary subject(s) of the day to see if the correction(s) “took” . . . all before you walk off the court to go practice grooving what you’ve learned.

Drilling in a formal setting is good, but drilling on your own should be part of your routine too. Find some similarly “serious” and skilled players to regularly hang out with, and get as much court time as possible. If they happen to be taking lessons from your pro, that’s even better, since you can all watch each other with eyes that are looking for the same things. A small group of “sincere” hitting partners can do wonders for your developing game.

MG
 

metamike

Rookie
I don't see the point in private lessons. A person I know took private lessons for over a year, and I played at the local Fitness Center for 2 months, once a week, and beat him (with no prior tennis experience).

Private lessons don't teach you anything you can't teach yourself.
 

Venetian

Professional
I don't see the point in private lessons. A person I know took private lessons for over a year, and I played at the local Fitness Center for 2 months, once a week, and beat him (with no prior tennis experience).

Private lessons don't teach you anything you can't teach yourself.

I completely agree with you Mike, but I don't think anyone else will. So be prepared.

EDIT: I dont think your "one guy one time" account is going to mean much to a lot of people but I completely agree based on my own understanding.
 
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Tennismastery

Professional
I don't see the point in private lessons. A person I know took private lessons for over a year, and I played at the local Fitness Center for 2 months, once a week, and beat him (with no prior tennis experience).

Private lessons don't teach you anything you can't teach yourself.

Different players have a different propensity to understanding many elements that control or determine player improvement and progression. Several of these are:

a) many players don't have the ability to decipher proper or optimal strokes, grips or footwork patterns that would lead them to more prolific play and improvement.

b) many players don't know what their body is doing, even if they understand what skilled strokes and techniques are.

c) many players don't know how to use certain shots that might be more advantageous to them to learn

d) many players don't understand tennis strategies; how to manufacture points, how to strategically play singles or double against different players, etc

Typically, the student taking lessons and diligently working on those skills related to more advanced play will often and regularly lose to those players who simply play within the context of comfort or familiar shot-making. This is because using more advanced techniques usually employ unfamiliar, uncomfortable, and/or simply foriegn mechanics and grips. Players who are 'self-taught' use patterns that "feel" right...or, are simply more comfortable which leads to initially more confidence. (As you obviously exhibit.)

However, as with any skilled activity, (such as playing a musical insturment, typing on a computer or keyboard, or playing sports), there is a period of time in which such advanced strokes, (those usually taught by quality teaching pros), will indeed become more comfortable, familiary, and confident.

At which time, such a player, one you probably have beaten many times in the past, progresses past your level of play.

Obviously, there are those who can study the game, who have good control of their body, and who can emulate and understand advanced play. But, these players are few. You can look all around the public and club courts around the world and observe players using unsophisticated form, that which is seldom seen among skilled players...

and the sad part is, the vast majority of these players stagnate at the 3.0 or 3.5 levels for the rest of their life, even as they continue to play regularly...and, even as such players often have the potential to play much better.

Unfortunately, ignorance is abound in our sport. The reason is obvious: players can figure out ways to hit a tennis ball over the net using hundreds of different movements. Players will end up with a false sense of improvement because of these perceived 'successes'...yet, like so many millions of players, they will see other players passing them up, (usually those taking lessons), and because they are so ingrained in their feeble or mediocre methods that they used because they were initially comfortable or allowed them to "win" (at those same mediocre levels), they find that making changes NOW is frustratingly impossible.

Lessons and/or clinics (with a good pro), are a great investment in terms of a lifetime of skilled tennis. Few people play the piano without some level of formal lessons or training, (or at the very least, finding a good 'self-help' book on playing)...otherwise, they would basically find themselves playing chop sticks on a Steinway for the rest of their life. (Not exactly fun, nor fun to listen to!)

I will say that those players who can study the game (especially now with the great web sites that have awesome tennis information), who read books and understand their body, and those who know what progressions do indeed lead to skilled play, then sure, that individual would not need much in the way of lessons.

But, don't you find it odd that the vast majority of skilled players, even pros, have coaches? Even as great as Tiger Woods is in golf, he still goes and works with a Swing Coach.

I think it would be rather arrogant, (ignorant arrogance, at that), to presume that you are capable of teaching yourself a skilled activity such as tennis. Sure, you can continue to bunt, push, dink, hack, and flail away at tennis balls and, through simple attrition, get pretty good at getting the ball to go over the net.

But, hitting ten thousand shots this way will only produce a player who is really good at being bad.
 

LuckyR

Legend
I don't see the point in private lessons. A person I know took private lessons for over a year, and I played at the local Fitness Center for 2 months, once a week, and beat him (with no prior tennis experience).

Private lessons don't teach you anything you can't teach yourself.


Everything (pretty much) that TM posted above is correct. However, it is only a piece of the whole picture. The piece he sees as a professional instructor. Sort of like: if all you have is a hammer, life is a series of nails (even when it is a bolt). My point being that everyone learns most efficiently in different ways. In my experience many women for example learn best by the nurturing approach of a tennis instructor, sort of the "full meal deal": verbal, demonstration, critiquing, hands on guidance, video... all of it.

It is also common, in my experience that there is a substantial minority of men who learn best by visual emulation. One can argue whether this would be beneficial since an individual could emulate the "wrong moves" but that is a chance everyone takes since all of us know there are poor instructors at every level, just as there are poor or inefficient moves that could be emulated then grooved. However, there are also more and better websites, for example that have very high quality demos from multiple angles in extreme slo-mo of strokes that are worth emulating.

As an aside using the "even Pros like Tiger Woods use a coach" is a bit disingenuous since TW is working at his profession where it is worth it to him to spend $500,000 to improve his game 2%, since that 2% might net him $10 million. It may not be worth it for many club players to spend $2000 to improve their game 8%, not a rule but just a different perspective.

Lastly, there is a myth that there is a magical perfect stroke mechanic that if adopted will transform your game to the next level, a level you could never reach with your previous stroke mechanics. I am not responding to the Strawman Argument that uses completely disastrous strokes of a rank beginner to make their case, rather the common stroke mechanics seen on courts all over the world of decent players. This topic is quite deep, perhaps too deep for a single post on this thread, but read: The Lure of the Big Game by Vince Ng, it covers this topic in great detail.
 

Tennismastery

Professional
Everything (pretty much) that TM posted above is correct. However, it is only a piece of the whole picture. The piece he sees as a professional instructor. Sort of like: if all you have is a hammer, life is a series of nails (even when it is a bolt). My point being that everyone learns most efficiently in different ways. In my experience many women for example learn best by the nurturing approach of a tennis instructor, sort of the "full meal deal": verbal, demonstration, critiquing, hands on guidance, video... all of it.

It is also common, in my experience that there is a substantial minority of men who learn best by visual emulation. One can argue whether this would be beneficial since an individual could emulate the "wrong moves" but that is a chance everyone takes since all of us know there are poor instructors at every level, just as there are poor or inefficient moves that could be emulated then grooved. However, there are also more and better websites, for example that have very high quality demos from multiple angles in extreme slo-mo of strokes that are worth emulating.

As an aside using the "even Pros like Tiger Woods use a coach" is a bit disingenuous since TW is working at his profession where it is worth it to him to spend $500,000 to improve his game 2%, since that 2% might net him $10 million. It may not be worth it for many club players to spend $2000 to improve their game 8%, not a rule but just a different perspective.

Lastly, there is a myth that there is a magical perfect stroke mechanic that if adopted will transform your game to the next level, a level you could never reach with your previous stroke mechanics. I am not responding to the Strawman Argument that uses completely disastrous strokes of a rank beginner to make their case, rather the common stroke mechanics seen on courts all over the world of decent players. This topic is quite deep, perhaps too deep for a single post on this thread, but read: The Lure of the Big Game by Vince Ng, it covers this topic in great detail.

Lucky makes some very valid comments here, many of which I agree with to a certain degree.

We will never be able to know that a player who uses more prolific strokes would end up being a better player than if that same player used what ever came natural.

However, it can't be argued that skilled players, those who have indeed progressed past those which could be considered mediocre, average or unconventional, do not resemble those players who use such ineffective shots. Thus, it would be safe to say that if you don't resemble skilled players, you probably won't become one. And, if you can't emulate such skilled players on your own, you will need some help.

And while your Tiger Woods scenario is probably quite accurate, it doesn't negate the issue that even the pros use instructors to improve...regardless of cost or value. My point is that they still use coaches.

And while there are indeed "poor" coaches out there, it doesn't take a lot of work to determine if one you are considering is a good one. Look at who they have coached, watch them teach, talk to people.

But, would you not take your broken car to a repair person? There are poor or dishonest repair people in this world...should I never seek repair because of this concept?

I don't propose that all players adopt the exact game of a Roddick or a Sharapova...however, there are fundamentals that exist among all skilled players pros or solid juniors, skilled club players or seniors, and the like, that all players should strive to include. This can be helped along by someone who knows how to teach, and someone willing to listen and get past some of the discomfort that such strokes tend to feel like when first introduced.

The reality is, skilled strokes are seldom comfortable for beginners. Thus, if a beginner is going to try and play tennis, why would they use form that feels uncomfortable? Unless they are able to understand what they are striving to accomplish, they will continue to use use ineffective form for ever. That is a fact.

And, yes, while I'm a teaching pro, I would never try and let my 9 year old daughter try to learn the piano by herself. (Even as there are some really bad piano instructors out there, I'm sure!), nor would I expect her to learn to play tennis well by herself, or Karate, dance, gymnastics, violin, and musical theater. (All of which she is doing or has done in the past.)

Thus, I respectfull submit this question to anyone: are you willing to bet that you can figure out all the nuances, strategies, footwork patterns, balance issues, spins, and shot choices on your own? Or, would it be perhaps a good investment of your time and money to have someone who has provided others with such skills provide you with the guidence so you don't make the same mistakes that millions of players who can't get any better have done?

If a person is so confident that they can achieve such skills (if, indeed, that is what their goal is), and they are willing to study and research such methods and video tape themselves to be sure that they are doing the very things they THINK they are doing, then all the power to them.

I teach at a large facility and you can always see the players who either think they can get better on their own or they simply don't care...but, either way, my students almost without exception, end up passing those players by. And, most of my students, (even my 9 year old!) can look at such players and point out where their limitations are.

The bottom line is this: Skilled tennis is the act of hitting more effective shots more consistently. It is also the act of defending more effective shots more effectively and consistently. Many of the techniques that players devise on their own fall short in both of these areas: They either can't hit more effective shots, (hit with more angle, spin, disguise, depth, pace, or touch), or they can't keep the ball in play short of dinking, bunting, blocking or simply praying! that they will get the ball back.

Everyone has this choice, certainly. I never get upset when players choose to learn on their own. However, somewhere down the line, many of these players are the ones who get upset because they can't get better.

Yet, such players, when they finally admit they didn't learn very well, eventually come to me for help. But, unfortunately, because they are so ingrained in their stroke patterns (and revert to them in competition), they have extreme difficulty in making significant changes.

This is the person I feel most sorry for: They so much want to get better; they see others who are better and wonder why they can't play like them. Yet, among the 3000 + players I've taught, very very few have such remorse or feel like their lessons were a waste of money or time.

I write this not because it will benefit me, (I doubt too many of the members of this forum will be flying out to specifically take lessons from me--although some do!), I write this to help players make a better, educated decision on whether lessons are right for them.

I'm also not here to argue...since, I gain nothing from winning or losing such an argument. I do write here to give back to the game that has given me so much. And, if people are coming to this forum, they probably do indeed have a vested interest in themselves reaching their potential in tennis.

Never have I seen players reach their full potential in tennis, or any skilled activity, without some legitimate help. However, I see thousands of players who have all the skills needed to become skilled, but because of the way the learned or the way they were taught, fall far short in reaching their true potential.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Again, I don't disagree with TM's observations, they are correct and for the rank beginner are going to be for ~97% of folks, the most efficient and best way to get their game where they want it to be. It is true, to be sure if I could jump in a time machine to the age of 9, I would seek out TM (assuming he was an instructor at that time) and sign up for lessons!

My post is more directed at the audience of this Forum, who are for the most part, not rank beginners. Going back in time is not an option, their's are: destruct their stroke mechanics in favor of "better" mechanics or optimize what they have. TM himself alluded to what I am saying in his post: "because they are so ingrained in their stroke patterns (and revert to them in competition), they have extreme difficulty in making significant changes".

As an analogy, ask a modern day engineer with a blank computer screen to design an efficient race car and I guarantee you they will not come up with a design that looks like a Porsche 911 (engine behind the rear axle). However, that corporation has stuck with this "inferior" design and maximized what it can do, to the tune of > 28,000 race victories.

Fixed:


http://www.tuninglinx.com/videos/top-gear-videos/020-top-gear-v8-vantage-carrera-s-m6-part2.wmv
 
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Venetian

Professional
There are also many alternatives to paid instruction. You can advance by playing with people that already have advanced technique. This can be a form of coaching, just not formal as with a pro. Also, watching pro players and learning visually can be a form of coaching. I don't believe anyone is really completely self-taught, but I don't think you need any formal instruction to get to the highest levels.

Many people bring up learning an instrument when talking about advancing in skill in something. But many many great musicians had absolutely no "formal" training at all. They simply learned over the years from other musicians.

I think a lot of people in the tennis playing community look too quickly to professional instructors when they could possibly learn better in another way.

I went to a pro a few times a week for a year before I realized it wasn't really helping me. My game grew by leaps and bounds in the 2 years after I quit seeing the pro. This pro had successfully instructed quite a few other kids on my school team though.
 

Tennismastery

Professional
Good points, Lucky.

It really takes a dedicated adult who has been playing for years to make changes, subtle to the significant, that would benefit their game. However, I can tell you can be done, and done very well. We all have seen the masses react to learning something new, and then how the majority will indeed revert back to their comfort-levels, only to perpetuate their stagnation. This is not the fault of any instructor, it is the choice of the student.

As with anything, learning something new takes time, energy, patience, etc...all of which are often missing in our society today and in general human nature. Hence the few numbers of champions or players playing at the 5.5 levels. Yet, I have also trained a number of juniors and adults both who had limited athleticim/natural coordination, and or bad habits, overcome these and progress to such levels we would all define as skilled.

And, of course, there are many "newbies" to tennis that frequent this forum, (hence many of the op's opening lines, "I'm new to tennis..."), and if many of these people read metamike's remarks, they might perceive tennis as a easy sport that anyone can master...without the help of a teaching aspect.

I think anyone who has reached 'skilled' levels of the sport would disagree with this impresion.

Don't get me wrong, I believe you have some very valid points.

But, using your engineer analogy, I suspect the people who first designed Porsche vehicles were not uneducated, or lacking in experience in what would produce a good car. They may have gotten lucky along the way, or maybe they, like some in the tennis world, figured it out on their own. But even such success would have some level of defined logic and reason that the engineers would have had from previous people/experiences.

Heck, I'm living proof of your concept: I took four lessons (group ones at that) when I was a kid...however, I had several things going for me: I knew what my body was doing, I could emulate anyone doing anything, I was surrounded by good tennis players in Southern California (and a father who was a national tennis coach of the year), and I was a thinker. Unfortunately, most people have limited levels of these attributes and opportunities that I was blessed with. Thus, if people like me who have already figured it all out, (to a certain degree!), it would certainly save MOST people time and frustration of having to 'reinvent the wheel' so to speak.

There are plenty of great resources around today, far more than when I was growing up in the early 70's, to understand what to do and how to do it. When I was young, my only resource was a few books, and watching matches on television...with only minimal 'replays' and worse analysis than what we now can see today.

Great dialogue here and I appreciate the civility in sharing both ideas.
 

Mountain Ghost

Professional
Private Lessons

I don't see the point in private lessons. A person I know took private lessons for over a year, and I played at the local Fitness Center for 2 months, once a week, and beat him (with no prior tennis experience).

Private lessons don't teach you anything you can't teach yourself.

I think the test group for this sophisticated theory of yours is pretty small, and your scientific “study” might be a bit too narrow and short-lived to solidly support such a sweeping generalization. There are good teaching pros and there are not-so-good teaching pros. There are good students and there are not-so-good students. There are also “naturals” who can go somewhat far without professional help, though pretty much ALL developing players who expect to be competitive at an advanced level eventually take lessons.

Years ago, after only 6 months of playing tennis seriously, I too (without ANY professional help) found myself beating skilled players who had been taking lessons for YEARS . . . resulting in a confidence and a cockiness that were correspondingly impressive. Even though I did happen to have some of the best juniors in Southern California as personal friends, live-action examples and casual mentors, after about two solo years I finally realized that I had topped out, and I can remember having to almost beg a highly respected (and very picky) pro to fit me into his tight schedule. The corrections my pro provided were subtle, simple and amazingly effective. I had always considered myself to be smartly observant, athletic and naturally intuitive, and yet I must say it would have been IMPOSSIBLE for me to observe, diagnose and to fix my “hidden” problems without his help.

Decades have passed, and I can actually see both sides of this argument. Looking back at when I was trying to be a player, my regret is that it took me a full two years to get over my homemade glory and to seek the professional help I needed. As a teacher, I’m glad I was basically forced to observe, analyze and to experiment on my own before I had someone with more “experience” and “knowledge” telling me what to do or focus on. I wound up never catching up with the best players in my age bracket, but I now have what I think is a unique perspective and I can see little things that others might not notice.

MG
 

raiden031

Legend
I completely agree with you Mike, but I don't think anyone else will. So be prepared.

EDIT: I dont think your "one guy one time" account is going to mean much to a lot of people but I completely agree based on my own understanding.

I am completely self-taught and I don't even agree with metamike. It wasn't easy steering myself in the right direction in tennis and I probably have wasted alot of time doing things wrong that could've been done right from the start. In fact if it wasn't for this board, I probably would still be struggling with improvement.

There are some people that are just hopeless with or without lessons. So you can't gauge how good lessons are because you can demolish a player who gets regular lessons. I bet that I would get 10 times as much out of one lesson than a beginner simply because I already understand the game pretty well, and I know what it takes to get better.

I am plannng to take just a few lessons every now and then to make sure I'm still on the right path because I really have never gotten much feedback on my game or technique and its about time I get a "check-up".
 

Venetian

Professional
I am completely self-taught and I don't even agree with metamike. It wasn't easy steering myself in the right direction in tennis and I probably have wasted alot of time doing things wrong that could've been done right from the start. In fact if it wasn't for this board, I probably would still be struggling with improvement.

There are some people that are just hopeless with or without lessons. So you can't gauge how good lessons are because you can demolish a player who gets regular lessons. I bet that I would get 10 times as much out of one lesson than a beginner simply because I already understand the game pretty well, and I know what it takes to get better.

I am plannng to take just a few lessons every now and then to make sure I'm still on the right path because I really have never gotten much feedback on my game or technique and its about time I get a "check-up".

Well that's you. I guess you're the kind of player that can benefit from lessons and you just took the wrong path to start with. I'm the exact opposite, starting with lessons when I shouldn't have ever taken them. It set me back.
 

raiden031

Legend
Well that's you. I guess you're the kind of player that can benefit from lessons and you just took the wrong path to start with. I'm the exact opposite, starting with lessons when I shouldn't have ever taken them. It set me back.

How did lessons set you back? I'm not saying that lessons are necessary to become good. But they are far from pointless and obviously necessary to make it to the highest levels. Just find one pro who didn't have lessons all their life. And the kind of people that are too dependent on them and can't figure stuff out on their own are likely to get little out of them anyways. Its the people who actually understand the philosophy behind what they're being taught are the ones who end up good. I just think having lessons will speed up the process for those who have potential to be good.
 

Venetian

Professional
How did lessons set you back? I'm not saying that lessons are necessary to become good. But they are far from pointless and obviously necessary to make it to the highest levels. Just find one pro who didn't have lessons all their life. And the kind of people that are too dependent on them and can't figure stuff out on their own are likely to get little out of them anyways. Its the people who actually understand the philosophy behind what they're being taught are the ones who end up good. I just think having lessons will speed up the process for those who have potential to be good.

I'm not saying lessons are useless. I'm just saying that some people learn best by watching and doing. I was fortunate enough to have college players around to hit against when I was still in high school, so I just watched how they did things and picked up on it. I'm also pretty athletic so I pick up on sports easily. Beyond that it was just a matter of practicing a lot and grooving things.

There are probably pro players who grew up just playing a lot of tennis and got to be good juniors that way. Then they go out and get coaches and trainers and such because, hey why not? They're already good and will probably make money at it. By that point though the coach is running drills with them to hone their shots and work on strategy, probably not making changes in their basic stroke mechanics.

But yeah, I don't think teaching professionals are necessary to get to the highest levels. I think players just go that route most of the time. Maybe almost everyone else learns best that way, I don't know. Or maybe it's just because that's what people see as the best way to do it. I mean, I've seen good players who have had no formal training, and I've seen horrible players who've taken lessons for years. I think it's just a matter of how each person learns best.

EDIT: Oh, and you asked how lessons set me back, so I'll explain as well as I can...

I just don't learn the way pros tend to try and teach students. They tell you where certain parts of your body should be, such as having your elbows and such and such a position for forehands. They also try to teach you footwork patterns and stances. I just learn best dynamically I guess. I learn by just hitting and letting my body figure out how it should move and hit. I don't need to be taught footwork, my feet will figure out the optimal way to move after having hit a certain shot thousands of times. If I had hired someone to just feed balls to me and play practice sets I would have been much better off. Once I left my instructor and just started playing my way I had much more success.

I don't have flawed strokes either, they developed fine. I've since hit with local pros that I've gotten to know at different clubs who compliment my form.

But anyway, I just don't think teaching pros are the way to go for every person. Maybe it's the best path for most people, I only know myself that well. But I can understand why there are others out there who think and learn the way I do.
 
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I think everyone is pointing to specific examples to try to bolster their arguments. Can you self teach yourself tennis? I guess, but I would think it would be pretty tough and you would run the risk of being good at bad things, as was previously said. I feel comfortable saying that I always benefit from a lesson. Tennis coaches are like everyone else, most are acceptable but there are some great ones and some bad ones.
 

LuckyR

Legend
Just food for thought: if Rafa would have hooked up with a tennis instructor at the very beginning and was drilled in the standard stroke mechanics/grips of the time, he would not have his current technique. Maybe he would be the #1 player right now, but somehow I doubt it.

Similarly, if Borg would have been drilled in the classic stroke mechanics/grip of his day when starting out, he too would have had a very different stroke than what he ended up with. Again he may have won even more Grand Slams, but again I doubt it.
 

10isDad

Hall of Fame
Very interesting thread and one in which I have had similar personal debates. My son started out in a clinic atmosphere with no private lessons. Luckily, the coach, a USPTA Master Professional, worked an awful lot on strokes and even in the group atmosphere was able to teach the kids quality technique. Unfortunately, this coach worked exclusively on technique and drills. There was very little strategy; a lot of how but very little as to where/when/why.

When my son started playing tournaments his record was less than stellar even though he had very decent strokes. He switched to another clinic, doing a private lesson once per week + a clinic 3 times per week. This worked out much better and he quickly started progressing. However, the new place used all dead-ball drills - again with little to no match play.

We switched again and his current regimen is similar: one hour of private + 3 two-hour "clinics" per week. His current clinic is, however, completely the opposite. No technique, no drilling - only match-play. The assumption is the players now have all the strokes and/or work on strokes during private lessons. These coaches don't believe in dead ball drilling at the more advanced level. The entire clinic consists of match-play or things like cross-court rally games. Now, while his match play has significantly improved I've noticed little "eccentricities" rearing their head - which I attribute that my son needs some of the drilling aspect. He now "drills" with a ball machine or with me feeding him about 2 hours per week.

The bottom line of the long diatribe is that every person is different. My son definitely benefited from all three aspects (private lessons, drill-based clinics, match-play-based clinics) and still needs all three. Other players seem to do just fine with fewer.

The difficulty is striking the right balance between what's best for the player vs. the cost, time, distance, etc. For my kid, the current balance is about 1 part private lessons to 6 parts match play to 2 parts drilling.
 

Tennismastery

Professional
Very interesting thread and one in which I have had similar personal debates. My son started out in a clinic atmosphere with no private lessons. Luckily, the coach, a USPTA Master Professional, worked an awful lot on strokes and even in the group atmosphere was able to teach the kids quality technique. Unfortunately, this coach worked exclusively on technique and drills. There was very little strategy; a lot of how but very little as to where/when/why.

When my son started playing tournaments his record was less than stellar even though he had very decent strokes. He switched to another clinic, doing a private lesson once per week + a clinic 3 times per week. This worked out much better and he quickly started progressing. However, the new place used all dead-ball drills - again with little to no match play.

We switched again and his current regimen is similar: one hour of private + 3 two-hour "clinics" per week. His current clinic is, however, completely the opposite. No technique, no drilling - only match-play. The assumption is the players now have all the strokes and/or work on strokes during private lessons. These coaches don't believe in dead ball drilling at the more advanced level. The entire clinic consists of match-play or things like cross-court rally games. Now, while his match play has significantly improved I've noticed little "eccentricities" rearing their head - which I attribute that my son needs some of the drilling aspect. He now "drills" with a ball machine or with me feeding him about 2 hours per week.

The bottom line of the long diatribe is that every person is different. My son definitely benefited from all three aspects (private lessons, drill-based clinics, match-play-based clinics) and still needs all three. Other players seem to do just fine with fewer.

The difficulty is striking the right balance between what's best for the player vs. the cost, time, distance, etc. For my kid, the current balance is about 1 part private lessons to 6 parts match play to 2 parts drilling.

This is a great post and outlines the needs of most players: Technical mastery then application mastery. Unfortunately, when players are playing all the time, their technical mastery can evolve...sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse. Every program should have a drill/technical practice element and opportunities to replicate such mechanics in live-ball settings.

A good pro will look for where strokes are breaking down and revisit technical drills for a brief period then return to competitive drills and live ball games.

During almost every boys and girls tennis season most of my students' games deteriorate to some degree. Mainly because their coaches don't know how to integrate stroke production drills and only have the kids challenge or play practice sets or rally. Without purpose, most kids will get lazy, develop bad habits, and while they may "play" better matches in terms of getting balls in play and fighting for points, they often lose the consistent application of skilled stroke.

The bottom line is this: as players do get better, they learn to take 'short cuts' in hitting balls. A good player can half volley a ball at the baseline and often will choose to do so because it takes more work to quickly take necessary steps to hit a big forehand or backhand on the same ball.

I see this all the time...where players only move "enough" to hit the ball, but not enough to hit the ball "WELL".

Anyway, my take on this!
 
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