Pro’s specs “secrets”

Maverick13

Rookie
I’ve gotten into golf recently and from watching interviews/reading you can readily find most of the custom specs the pros use. Which got me thinking, why are pros specs such a secret in tennis? Like, who made the decision one day “okay we can customize it for you, but no one can know how or what we did”. Do they really think tennis players are that naive to think pros use off the shelf racquets or is golf pros/fandom relationship just different.

I know we discuss pro specs everyday but I’m curious if anyone has discussed the origin of the the secrecy behind them.
 
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beltsman

Legend
I’ve gotten into golf recently and from watching interviews/reading you can readily find most of the custom specs the pros use. Which got me thinking, why are pros specs such a secret in tennis? Like, who made the decision one day “okay we can customize it for you, but no one can know how or what we did”. Do they really think tennis players are that naive to think pros use off the shelf racquets or is golf pros/random relationship just different.

I know we discuss pro specs everyday but I’m curious if anyone has discussed the origin of the the secrecy behind them.
Good question. Maybe part of it is they tinker a lot, maybe even from match to match, so it's hard to publish anything definitive. But maybe they do that in golf too, idk.

Theoretically though, their racquets are checked before each match to ensure they are within the rules (although I doubt they are). If so, specs should be taken and published. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game. Commentators could talk about why so and so added lead for this opponent in particular or something.
 

Maverick13

Rookie
Good question. Maybe part of it is they tinker a lot, maybe even from match to match, so it's hard to publish anything definitive. But maybe they do that in golf too, idk.

Theoretically though, their racquets are checked before each match to ensure they are within the rules (although I doubt they are). If so, specs should be taken and published. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game. Commentators could talk about why so and so added lead for this opponent in particular or something.
Exactly! And let’s be real, Wilson wouldn’t sell any less RF97A if they released his real specs, nor would Babolat if they released Nadal’s, etc. they could just be like here’s their real specs, good luck trying to play with them, fyi, you can’t lol. But I do wonder how early customization started and why is it so hush hush.
 

taylor15

Professional
Good question. Maybe part of it is they tinker a lot, maybe even from match to match, so it's hard to publish anything definitive. But maybe they do that in golf too, idk.

Theoretically though, their racquets are checked before each match to ensure they are within the rules (although I doubt they are). If so, specs should be taken and published. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game. Commentators could talk about why so and so added lead for this opponent in particular or something.
You doubt they are within the rules, or doubt they are checked?

if you mean checked, yeah it would be obvious if a frame was over 29” and/or 137 sq in or wherever the max size is
 

beltsman

Legend
You doubt they are within the rules, or doubt they are checked?

if you mean checked, yeah it would be obvious if a frame was over 29” and/or 137 sq in or wherever the max size is
I doubt they are checked.

I agree that it's highly unlikely that rules are intentionally broken. But I know if at least one match (WTA) where a racquet was incorrectly strung and violated the rules.

My point though is that there is a rule for specs, so clearly they matter. They should be checked and made public.
 

beltsman

Legend
Connors was one of the first. I think the customization era really took off in the 80s when graphite racquets replaced wood. The players like Sampras, Agassi, Chang, Becker, Wilander, and Lendl who added a lot of weight had a huge advantage over the field.
Good info. Was it considered taboo to add weight? That's a really interesting angle.
 

Maverick13

Rookie
Another thing is it has to be publicly hush within the game. After you see a pro block back 140mph+ serves you don’t hear announcers say “that heavy racquet enables that” I actually can’t remember bedsides a switch, that commentators commented on racquet specifics on a player. That HAS to be on purpose. And in interviews no one ever thought to ask, how heavy is your racquet? It honestly feels like a massive cover up but like “why?”
 
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travlerajm

G.O.A.T.
Another thing is it has to be publicly hush within the game. After you see a pro black back 140mph+ serves you don’t hear announcers say “that heavy racquet enables that” I actually can’t remember bedsides a switch, that commentators commented on racquet specifics on a player. That HAS to be on purpose. And in interviews no one ever thought to ask, how heavy is your racquet? It honestly feels like a massive cover up but like “why?”
Andy Murray’s specs were always highly secretive. Greg Raven posted “unconfirmed” swingweight of over 400, but there were rumors that he changed his specs after that due to wrist injury, and used a lighter racquet the rest of his career. It was only last year when someone revealed that his “lighter” racquet had a 380 sw. That wasn’t the only reason he was the best in the business at returning big serves, but it was a factor.
 

Lefty78

Professional
Exactly! And let’s be real, Wilson wouldn’t sell any less RF97A if they released his real specs, nor would Babolat if they released Nadal’s, etc. they could just be like here’s their real specs, good luck trying to play with them, fyi, you can’t lol. But I do wonder how early customization started and why is it so hush hush.
Babolat DID release Rafa's specs and many on these boards panned them, but they were spot on. 330 SW unstrung.
 

AlexSV

Rookie
Been a while since I paid attention to golf, but I think a lot of those conversations are to sell you something. Every year, there's some new technology that will transform your game. Or there's some new tool that will get you to that next level. Look at this pro using this club, you should get one too.

Custom golf clubs were a big gimmick to sell crappy clubs to middle aged hacks.

Golfers love to buy new clubs every year. Tennis players seem to stick with their gear longer.
 

SeeItHitIt

Professional
I started tinkering with golf clubs/making them around 1987. So when I started playing tennis it was natural to try different config to see what worked for me. All that said, I can’t imagine why tennis players guard racquet specs. At the end of the day, no two bodies are the same so no two strokes can be exactly the same. It doesn't matter what Player X uses because in Player Y’s hands, it may feel like a log or a twig.
 
D

Deleted member 768841

Guest
I’ve gotten into golf recently and from watching interviews/reading you can readily find most of the custom specs the pros use. Which got me thinking, why are pros specs such a secret in tennis? Like, who made the decision one day “okay we can customize it for you, but no one can know how or what we did”. Do they really think tennis players are that naive to think pros use off the shelf racquets or is golf pros/fandom relationship just different.

I know we discuss pro specs everyday but I’m curious if anyone has discussed the origin of the the secrecy behind them.
I think the reason they keep it secret is due to the marketing that goes into saying a pro “endorses” a racquet. With especially the higher paid pros, the lead and weight is hidden very well so it looks like a retail racquet. It very closely skirts the line of false advertising/marketing but imo just lands on the side of being safe due to a simple explanation of how modding a racquet works.
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
Tennis racquet selection is often a compromise relative to golf; imagine the increase in technology and sales if in one point you could hit a first serve and then return slow deep ground strokes with interest with say a 95"/97" headsize 28+" longbody with a high sweet spot, dig a tough defensive shot out of a corner with a PD+, hit a heavily top spun angled approach shot with a Pure Aero strung with a shaped poly, then hit a solid volley with a hybrid-ed RF97, a drop volley with an RF97 strung with full gut and lastly blast an easy smash with a PDT+. :unsure::D As for secrecy, perhaps the fact that in golf players are not competing against each other in a manner that causes them to have a direct and constant influence on their opponents' shots has something to do with it; didn't Agassi like to hit with the racquets of his arch nemeses to find out how best to 'hurt' them?
 
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Robert F

Professional
So many guys have worked in so many camps of different pros, I'm not sure how secret the specs of racquets are from one pro to the next.

I think there is this agreed ignorance between consumers and racquet companies that just evolved in the sport that pro's use off the shelf racquets. No one believes it but we secretly think it. Almost everyone I play with know pros modify racquets, yet just as many of those people try racquets based on what looks popular on tour. We then make an assumption that the base racquet is a good starting point for us average joes.

I think racquet companies would prefer you to believe that the latest carbon fiber, newest string spacing, newest frame configuration create more power and stability then just adding some lead to your old prostaff from the 1990s. From a racquet perspective, has technology changed that much since graphite? I don't think so. A player could probably get 3 quality frames and as their game grows add weight and that might last them 5 years. Better to have them buying new frames every one to two years when the paint job changes with the new technology.

I love Wilson, but what's the difference between hypercarbon, n-code, k-factor, BLIX, CV and now CLASH tech. Probably nothing.

A few companies have tried to create modifiable racquets but I don't think any of them lasted. So maybe the gen pop has little interest in customizing their racquet except for folks like us.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Exactly! And let’s be real, Wilson wouldn’t sell any less RF97A if they released his real specs, nor would Babolat if they released Nadal’s, etc. they could just be like here’s their real specs, good luck trying to play with them, fyi, you can’t lol. But I do wonder how early customization started and why is it so hush hush.
sales is one part of it.
if the rumors about static weight and SW of some top pros like Djokovic and Murray are correct, Head would sell some frames initially due to the name, but soon after the second hand market will be flooded by those sticks, as 99% of players won't be able to handle them.

It's like asking why the car manufacturing companies don't offer their F1 cars to the larger public.
Even for people with money, if you have to service the car every 100km or 200km, they will probably sell a few cars to the collectioners for their garage and that's it.
Going further, just like people accept that the fine tuning of the cars are a trade secret that contributes to the success or failure of the pilot, it is same with tennis racket.
How often journalists are asking the F1 pilots about the fine tune done to the cars and how often do the pilots answer precisely and not some bla bla bla like we tried to optimize the car for many turns so I didn't have as much speed in the straight lines, but you need to find balance bla bla bla

Top tennis is so competitive that anything that might be perceived as bringing advantage is copied immediately.
I recall there was a time when folks believed that Nadal' speed was due to him spinning before matches, and rumours are that many pros tried to spin before matches, just to understand that it wasn't this particular exercise.
Then when Novak had success with his gluten free diet, rumours are that it was copied by the tour, just for people to see that his results are not a factor of gluten free diet only.

Similarly, you can imagine that if customization is a factor that makes a difference, if precise specs will be known, tomorrow they will be copied.
Khachanov tried to tinker and we know that his result went down, so we know that tinkering with the racket might be the difference between progressing and regressing.
And subsequently, this is a "trade secret", so why would you expect top pros to give you that information as long as they compete for big titles and records?
 

ron schaap

Hall of Fame
T't Agassi like to hit with the racquets of his arch nemeses to find out how best to 'hurt' them?
I think Lendl did that. Maybe he was one of the first to customize his racquets by Bosworth, who filled the whole interior of the head of his frames with lead i suspected because they sounded when he fired his canonballs with them, like he hitted with full metal racquets.
What Rafa is doing on and offcourt are for the most part pure rituals because he is so superstitious. Nobody would play better when doing them but he probably loses when he dont.
His opponents should know that by now.
Then tennis becomes a performing act too.
 
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sredna42

Hall of Fame
I think the reason why customization became hush hush is because the pros who were doing it considered it a competitive advantage over their peers.
I don't think so, what is an advantageous mod for one player would make another player play like crap.

it is just to sell racquets. if they come clean and open about pros using the same frame they always did, with specs of x,y and z, then that is that. They could release it once. sell a bunch, then a huge number of ppl would not buy frames again. The way they have it, the same massive herd of rec players buys a new bunch of frames almost like a seasonal migration.
 

Maverick13

Rookie
Personally, I blame the racquet company’s for the dishonestly and hush hushness. I have no idea why companies decided to make prostocks or pjs for players. Make them use the newest racquet and customize it to their liking so the advertising is accurate. If it came down to using old racquets or getting paid to endorse the new one customized most players would take the money and figure it out.
 

1stVolley

Professional
Exactly! And let’s be real, Wilson wouldn’t sell any less RF97A if they released his real specs, nor would Babolat if they released Nadal’s, etc. they could just be like here’s their real specs, good luck trying to play with them, fyi, you can’t lol. But I do wonder how early customization started and why is it so hush hush.
I'm not sure about that. If it were more widely known that Nadal plays with one of the earliest Babolat Aero models or Murray with a custom PT57A frame the public would be less inclined to buy the racquets they "endorse." In golf, by contrast, it is clear what the model and manufacturer is. Extra weight, a different loft or special shaft don't change the club, in the public's eye, as much as using a custom racquet with a paint job masking its true identity.
 

jmacdaununder2

Hall of Fame
I think Lendl did that. Maybe he was one of the first to customize his racquets by Bosworth, who filled the whole interior of the head of his frames with lead i suspected because they sounded when he fired his canonballs with them, like he hitted with full metal racquets.
What Rafa is doing on and offcourt are for the most part pure rituals because he is so superstitious. Nobody would play better when doing them but he probably loses when he dont.
His opponents should know that by now.
Then tennis becomes a performing act too.
I believe both Lendl and Agassi tried opponents' racquets on occasion.
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Personally, I blame the racquet company’s for the dishonestly and hush hushness. I have no idea why companies decided to make prostocks or pjs for players. Make them use the newest racquet and customize it to their liking so the advertising is accurate. If it came down to using old racquets or getting paid to endorse the new one customized most players would take the money and figure it out.
You are still new here...plenty of time to learn things...
 

Robert F

Professional
One of the reasons for sure. Next gen swingweights are so low and might explain the difference between them and big 3.
I wonder if part of the gap between upcoming players and the big three include:

1.) Swingweight. Growing up in the 80's I remember the push to be more like a pro was to handle the heaviest racquet with the biggest grip you can control with. Seems the trend has gone to the racquet you can swing fastest and use the smallest grip that allows you to whip the ball. I wonder if the Big 3 have found a sweetspot between heft and whip, whereas the Next gen is more about whip.

2.) Overall strength (Djoker might be the exception). The Djoker clubbing incident showed how lean these guys are compared to the Gen Pop. Very little muscle on their frames, also very little fat. But this means to generate pace they have to really generate speed, whereas the thicker/relatively more muscled Fed/Nadal (add Stan/Murray) can use mass and speed/acceleration to add heft to the ball. This means as the "muscled" guys are more fatigued, they can rely on mass to keep some heft on the ball whereas those who rely on speed only will slow down and as they fatigue and see a bigger drop in pace/weight etc. of the ball.

3.) Swing style--next Gen--heavy spin focus vs. Big 3 Spin and weight (Obviously both groups hit incredible groundies, but relatively speaking the Big 3 have a good balance of heavy spin and heavy forward movement).

I think in general pro tennis has less variance in the past for many reasons, but I think one of them is many players are sticking to high percentage tennis. Hit with heavy spin to big targets aggressively.
 
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yemenmocha

Professional
I think it is because most recreational players cannot handle the swing weight that the pros use, largely because they do not have properly developed swings. They will get fatigued or possibly injured with some of the heavier ones. Their racquet head speed will suffer and they may perceive that their shots aren’t as powerful.

Customers seem to want perceived improvements in racquet technology, and avoid Obvious negatives such as this racquet hurts my arm. Changes in paint jobs seem to be important too.

similar to golf, advanced players make up a small percentage of the customer demographics. They are not the focus of most racquet marketing.
 

mikeeeee

Professional
I’ve gotten into golf recently and from watching interviews/reading you can readily find most of the custom specs the pros use. Which got me thinking, why are pros specs such a secret in tennis? Like, who made the decision one day “okay we can customize it for you, but no one can know how or what we did”. Do they really think tennis players are that naive to think pros use off the shelf racquets or is golf pros/fandom relationship just different.

I know we discuss pro specs everyday but I’m curious if anyone has discussed the origin of the the secrecy behind them.
Didn’t read the thread but the answer is because it’s a business decision.

Racquet companies need to sell new frames every year and that doesn’t work as well if the pros they sponsor are still using frames from 10, 15, 25 years ago.... or in Wilson’s case, frames that have never been available and are produced as a direct copy of one of their biggest competitors because the pros don’t want to use any of their frames.

“Hey we sponsor top players but they want to hit with Head frames that we tried to paint as ours and it didn’t go over so hot so now we have to pull a China and make out own version... LOL buy this new Burn 100 for $220 please!” That would not be good for business.
 

Maverick13

Rookie
Didn’t read the thread but the answer is because it’s a business decision.

Racquet companies need to sell new frames every year and that doesn’t work as well if the pros they sponsor are still using frames from 10, 15, 25 years ago.... or in Wilson’s case, frames that have never been available and are produced as a direct copy of one of their biggest competitors because the pros don’t want to use any of their frames.

“Hey we sponsor top players but they want to hit with Head frames that we tried to paint as ours and it didn’t go over so hot so now we have to pull a China and make out own version... LOL buy this new Burn 100 for $220 please!” That would not be good for business.
Oh no, I totally understand that aspect. What I’m saying is everyone knows pros customize their racquets. Even the most moronic person has to know that no pros don’t use off the shelf. Probably no professional athlete uses anything directly off the shelf that a consumer does, 90% of people know this. So why are they keeping their actual specs a secret? Not PJ stuff but weight, balance, sw, etc. what do the companies have to game from withholding that?
 

mikeeeee

Professional
Even the most moronic person has to know that no pros don’t use off the shelf. Probably no professional athlete uses anything directly off the shelf that a consumer does, 90% of people know this.
I would venture to say 90% of people DON'T know this (in tennis especially). I used to do a clinic with a teaching pro who has been playing since he was a small kid. He would probably be rated a 5.0 but I never asked him. I mentioned paintjobs to him and he had no clue what I was talking about. He also had never heard of pro stocks.

I don't know a ton of people who play, but the ones that do, all think the pros are using the newest frames every year. We're in our own little bubble here and sometimes forget that this is actually a very small niche. This goes with any hobby you get seriously into
 
Connors was one of the first. I think the customization era really took off in the 80s when graphite racquets replaced wood. The players like Sampras, Agassi, Chang, Becker, Wilander, and Lendl who added a lot of weight had a huge advantage over the field.
Yes, makes sense, since the wood rackets were allready available in different weights for the same model.
 

polksio

Semi-Pro
Exactly! And let’s be real, Wilson wouldn’t sell any less RF97A if they released his real specs, nor would Babolat if they released Nadal’s, etc. they could just be like here’s their real specs, good luck trying to play with them, fyi, you can’t lol. But I do wonder how early customization started and why is it so hush hush.
The dynamic between player and racket manufacturer is on a very thin line. Racquets are just graphite. A pro can anytime he wants stop promoting his supplier so a pro room going around publishing pro specs is extremely out of line.
 

Simplicius

Semi-Pro
Exactly! And let’s be real, Wilson wouldn’t sell any less RF97A if they released his real specs, nor would Babolat if they released Nadal’s, etc. they could just be like here’s their real specs, good luck trying to play with them, fyi, you can’t lol. But I do wonder how early customization started and why is it so hush hush.
Mav, I really like your thread. Yes, I think that we haven't talk about pro's specs in that point of view.
But imho with your post above your are missing the (main) point which we have mention many times before on other threads.
Wilson (or any other company) they would definitely sell fewer rackets if they admitted the real specs of the famous players.
Million racquets sales loss actually! Don't focus on the specs like weight, swingweight etc which can be customized easily.
Focus on the molds! Many of them (and all of the Big3) they use racquets 15-25 years old!
If the sponsors release one or two models every decade and we use the same racquet all those years also, how many sales of new racquets will be?
 
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Maverick13

Rookie
Mav, I really like your thread. Yes, I think that we haven't talk about pro's specs in that point of view.
But imho with your post above your are missing the (main) point which we have mention many times before on other threads.
Wilson (or any other company) they would definitely sell fewer rackets if they admitted the real specs of the famous players.
Million racquets sales loss actually! Don't focus on the specs like weight, swingweight etc which can be customized easily.
Focus on the molds! Many of them (and all of the Big3) they use racquets 15-25 years old!
If the sponsors release one or two models every decade and we use the same racquet all those years also, how many sales of new racquets will be?
Totally get that point but I think most general consumers are more concerned about the looks of the pros rackets rather than the specs. If the choice was blacked out pro spec racquet or use the pj your fav pro does most (rec players, not high level) would probably chose the pj. Almost every other sport is a good example of this. I’m not saying anything about molds or pjs or anything of that nature. I really don’t think sales would go down if Wilson or anyone released a spreadsheet with the pros weight/balance/sw on it because it isn’t exact to what they’re selling.
 

lucieisland

Semi-Pro
I think that today we are making our lives too complicated, knowing so many unnecessary things.

I remember a time, or if we wanted to play with a very flexible racket we took a rossignol F200 and it was good!
if wanted a powerful racquet, we took a prince graphite pro 90, with his 14/18 string
if we wanted a controlled racquet we took a head graphite pro.

racquets came in one model, and two sieve sizes. 90-110 for prince ...

and we adapted our game to the rackets, and we played well, without worrying about TE, swingweight, sweetspot, RA of whatever.

I have the impression that brands today are taking advantage of the gullibility of players, by making them believe that 63RA a thousand times better than 65RA, that 2 stiffness indices on a poly will give them maximum power, that 10 micrograms of unicorn powder in a multifilament will make them play like Fed! ..

that .02cm of balance will drastically change everything about their racquet!

In 2014, I think I met a current top 20 player in Barcelona. it was strange. she was already playing very well, and her trainer, who is a friend of mine from the , explained to us that this player (having won since WTA titles), played with an 18/20 racquet, but sometimes used another model of test, 16/19 and with at least 12g more, and was totally unable to tell the difference. for her it was the same.

I think we put too much importance on the material, and that hides the biggest errors that we have. which are the technique, the footwork, the timing, the physical condition and many other parameters, which are neither dependent on the racquet, the string, the grip, the overgrip.

but all this is playing the game of the manufacturers, in order to sell thousands of new frames every year, in order to satisfy the thousands of players who believe that by buying the new frame, the new string, they will win more matches, and will play better ..

well, let's continue like this.
 

fox

Semi-Pro
I think that today we are making our lives too complicated, knowing so many unnecessary things.

I remember a time, or if we wanted to play with a very flexible racket we took a rossignol F200 and it was good!
if wanted a powerful racquet, we took a prince graphite pro 90, with his 14/18 string
if we wanted a controlled racquet we took a head graphite pro.

racquets came in one model, and two sieve sizes. 90-110 for prince ...

and we adapted our game to the rackets, and we played well, without worrying about TE, swingweight, sweetspot, RA of whatever.

I have the impression that brands today are taking advantage of the gullibility of players, by making them believe that 63RA a thousand times better than 65RA, that 2 stiffness indices on a poly will give them maximum power, that 10 micrograms of unicorn powder in a multifilament will make them play like Fed! ..

that .02cm of balance will drastically change everything about their racquet!

In 2014, I think I met a current top 20 player in Barcelona. it was strange. she was already playing very well, and her trainer, who is a friend of mine from the , explained to us that this player (having won since WTA titles), played with an 18/20 racquet, but sometimes used another model of test, 16/19 and with at least 12g more, and was totally unable to tell the difference. for her it was the same.

I think we put too much importance on the material, and that hides the biggest errors that we have. which are the technique, the footwork, the timing, the physical condition and many other parameters, which are neither dependent on the racquet, the string, the grip, the overgrip.

but all this is playing the game of the manufacturers, in order to sell thousands of new frames every year, in order to satisfy the thousands of players who believe that by buying the new frame, the new string, they will win more matches, and will play better ..

well, let's continue like this.
Hingis played whatever stick based on whether she liked a paintjob or not. Radwanska used PD Lite. Many WTA players changed between Burn, PD an Vcore and also did not die :)
 

taylor15

Professional
I think that today we are making our lives too complicated, knowing so many unnecessary things.

I remember a time, or if we wanted to play with a very flexible racket we took a rossignol F200 and it was good!
if wanted a powerful racquet, we took a prince graphite pro 90, with his 14/18 string
if we wanted a controlled racquet we took a head graphite pro.

racquets came in one model, and two sieve sizes. 90-110 for prince ...

and we adapted our game to the rackets, and we played well, without worrying about TE, swingweight, sweetspot, RA of whatever.

I have the impression that brands today are taking advantage of the gullibility of players, by making them believe that 63RA a thousand times better than 65RA, that 2 stiffness indices on a poly will give them maximum power, that 10 micrograms of unicorn powder in a multifilament will make them play like Fed! ..

that .02cm of balance will drastically change everything about their racquet!

In 2014, I think I met a current top 20 player in Barcelona. it was strange. she was already playing very well, and her trainer, who is a friend of mine from the , explained to us that this player (having won since WTA titles), played with an 18/20 racquet, but sometimes used another model of test, 16/19 and with at least 12g more, and was totally unable to tell the difference. for her it was the same.

I think we put too much importance on the material, and that hides the biggest errors that we have. which are the technique, the footwork, the timing, the physical condition and many other parameters, which are neither dependent on the racquet, the string, the grip, the overgrip.

but all this is playing the game of the manufacturers, in order to sell thousands of new frames every year, in order to satisfy the thousands of players who believe that by buying the new frame, the new string, they will win more matches, and will play better ..

well, let's continue like this.
Where’s the multifilament with unicorn powder? I need to try it out
 

lucieisland

Semi-Pro
Where’s the multifilament with unicorn powder? I need to try it out
you have to make an offering of Dahu hair, then wait for the full moon evenings of February 30, and wait for a Pegasus to come and get it. and normally 20 days later he will drop you off your set of unicorn powder multifilament ... but this only applies to ergonorm frames! ..
 
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