Pro Kennex Kinetic comparison: Black Ace 300 x Ki5 295 x 5G x 7G x Q5 x Black Ace 105 x C5 Ki Sling Tour

wedge

Rookie
This is going to be a super long writeup, so fair warning! Don’t nobody be giving me no guff about it :laughing: I promise to keep the shtick to a minimum.

But the long and short of it is -- and I know I'm not the first or the only person to say this -- I’m convinced Pro Kennex’s kinetic technology is so effective and important an innovation, that if they could, I wager all other racket manufacturers would be implementing it in their rackets in some form. I’m just an intermediate player but hopefully I can share some additional info and impressions that someone else might find useful.

Feel free to skip the intro/background stuff here if you’re just looking for the racket thoughts, I won’t be offended :)

Intro Stuff:

A couple months ago, I found an old, very used Pro Kennex 5G in a used sports equip store that begins with Play, ends with Sports, and it’s called Play it Again Sports. That scuffed racket basically changed the way I think about rackets. Until then, I had been on an extended, fru$$$trating racket hunt ever since getting back into the game, which has been complicated by an arm that complains if I look at it funny. I’ve got a long, long history of all kinds of arm ailments (multiple tendonitises, RSI, trigger finger, nerve issues, you name it) so finding a sustainable racket was a big deal.

I tried maaaaany current frames without success – there were some I really liked but couldn’t play with (VCore/EZone, Boom/Extreme/Gravity(!) MP’s, Pure Drive, CX400, ATS Textreme Tours, T-Fights, Whiteout etc), rackets which I liked but could tell were beyond my ability and fitness level (Percept/VCP, CX200, Prestige, Pure Strike etc) and rackets I actively disliked playing with (Blades, just all the Blades for some reason). I settled on a Head Boom Pro which I liked a lot, loved even (that's a truly great racket) and it worked for a while, but ultimately it and every other modern frame eventually ran afoul of my arm (and of course, my highly sus technique).

Even Clashes weren’t the answer for my arm, and while I appreciate them enormously, I couldn’t convince myself that playing with them was fun, or even “tennis” per se. And while the 2nd and 3rd gen Phantoms were really nice, only the 1st gen 100’s worked, and I didn’t have the technique to play with them.

The Boom Pro was heavier than any of the other modern frames, which clued me into weight being a good thing for a sensitive arm. So I moved onto a whole journey of heavy, flexible, older frames like Head Radical Tour OS, Dunlop 200G/400i/800i, and old Prince widebody thin-beam rackets like Graphite Comp and Power Pro. These were much better for my arm, and frankly these older frames are really rewarding to play – they all forced me to be mindful about technique and not force shots with my arm. And they were reasonably sustainable from a health perspective, even though my arm was still sore and tight for several days after playing, and I was limited to playing once a week. Still, it was better – at least I was able to play!

But the 5G I picked up on a whim from that sports place of used equipment where you play it and then do so once more, it was different. The first time I played with it, my elbow literally felt like it was getting BETTER as I played. Again, I realize I'm not a special snowflake in being bowled over by kinetic tech. But boy it was unreal -- it was like I was benefitting from motion and circulation and exercise without any of the strain. And after a 3 hour hitting session, I felt like I hadn’t played a single minute. I could have played all night.

It was kind of a profound experience and I’m not afraid to say I was close to tears when I realized that I would be able to actually play tennis the way I was dreaming of, with a racket I loved. I didn’t know that a racket could be this soft and comfortable – strung with NXT 17 it’s more comfortable than a Clash, and with pinpoint control and ridiculous stability and a solid feeling that I had never felt before. Certain rackets really are magical and the 5G certainly belongs in that club. I think in this group of Pro Kennex frames, it’s the only one that really is truly magic.

(cont'd)
 
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wedge

Rookie
5G

Thanks to the 5G I was able to play twice a week, and not be in any pain. I had also only experienced this sense of pinpoint control in a few frames I had tried (Prestige, the IMF Dunlops, Pro Kennex Black Ace 98, Yonex Rexkings and older midsize frames). I just felt like I could look at where I wanted the ball to go and it went. Spin was no problem, slice OHBHs were low and penetrating, and the feel was insanely soft and friendly.

I also experimented with a second elderly 5G on its last legs to see what different strings did, and I was amazed that even strung with synguts (OG sheep 17, forten sweet 17), the frame was still comfortable and effective, not too far off from the NXT.

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(Turned out the second 5G had a horrible crack in it! I patched it up and it still works, just with a bit of a buzz heheh :laughing: )

But what I started noticing was that different parts of my arm were getting sore and strained – like the bicep muscles as well as outer pectorals – because in order to get any depth with the 5G, I really had to swing out. If I didn’t, my shots were landing at the service line. Frustrating!

I think this specific racket was pretty soft after seeing a lot of use and stringing, and had stringer stickers on the throat dating back 20 years … this made it ultra comfortable but the weary graphite didn’t help the power situation either.

So, once I realized that kinetic frames are the only truly logical choice in my case, I decided that I would try as many kinetic rackets as I could, to get a sense of what’s available and settle on the right one for me. So I’m well along this journey by now and I’ll share some thoughts, and hopefully it might be useful for some people in my situation who are a) frustrated by their racket search and are kinetic-curious, and/or b) are hopelessly baffled by Pro Kennex’s impenetrable nomenclature.

The most common response to “I love the 5G but boy it’s a low-powered frame” was either “lead it up”, or “try the 7G”. I experimented endlessly with lead on that frame, and it felt like the racket just has a ceiling beyond which it didn’t matter how much I added, or where. I could have added Lego bricks of lead at 3 and 9 and while it certainly became a stable little beast, I was still not getting much additional depth without really going for it on every shot. It just seemed like I was trying to get the racket to do something it didn’t wanna do, something that didn’t come naturally to it.

I was going to try a 5G PSE to see just how much more powerful it would be, but I had to be realistic that I wasn’t nearly fit enough to lug around a 370g racket. If anyone can speak specifically to what the PSE does to a 5G in terms of power, I’d love to know.

(cont'd)
 
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wedge

Rookie
7G (NRG2 52lbs)

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The Pro Kennex buttcap traffic light

The 7G I got from TW was way under spec, though still technically within the window of acceptability. Wasn’t thrilled. I know some people appreciate getting lighter frames since it gives them headroom, but I don’t love it because I feel like I’m never really getting the right experience as intended by the manufacturer. In stock form it was only giving me 320 human swingweights. I tried it as-is but it was a bit of an uncontrolled feeling. I managed to get it up to TW’s average specs, nailing the static/swing weights and balance, but it also felt very clearly that simply matching TW’s numbers didn’t mean I was getting the right swinging experience, given where I was adding weight – it felt really polarized with the extended length, kinda like swinging a hammer around.

Also, the hologram peeled off after 15 minutes of light play :rolleyes:

That said, the 7G is a very special racket, different from the 5G in many ways which I find fascinating since the common wisdom is that it’s just a longer 5G (which it very well may be). Compared to the (much older, worn-in) 5G, it’s got a more hollow feel, with a clanking sensation on impact, compared to the 5G’s *thok*.

As to whether brand new 5G's feel and sound like the old ones, or they just feel and sound like the modern 7G, well, I couldn't say. I'm curious though, and maybe at some point I'll pick up a brand new 5G and see just what the situation is. But I wouldn't be the first person on this forum to note that an older G frame sounds and feels more solid than the more modern iteration of the ostensible same frame.

It took a while to get used to the extended length, which I was warned about. It felt a lot like I was operating a tool, like there were many more moving parts between my arm and the ball, whereas the 5G just becomes an arm-extension effortlessly and organically. I had to prepare for shots early, and concentrate very keenly, since one of the things the 7G and 5G have in common is that the head size is like, 92 square inches or something. No I mean it, I haven’t played with another 100 like this, where it felt like the sweet spot was actively shrinking as I played with it. I think the reason people don’t complain about it – and I’m actually not complaining here – is that it’s such a forgiving racket, that even if you don’t nail the right spot on the stringbed, you’re still going to produce an effective shot no matter where the ball hits.

But for an intermediate 3.5’er, it’s challenging to get a similar strike consecutively – you’re always getting a *thik* or a *foop*, or if you hit too low in the stringbed, a *fpink*. It never struck me as an issue though, and it doesn’t feel like an active problem with the rackets. First of all, I could just git gud, but even so, I never once found myself thinking “I wish the head was bigger”, since both 5G and 7G are both so effective and uniquely pleasant to play with regardless.

I found that if the goal of the 7G was to get a 5G experience with more power, well, I was getting like 70% of a 5G experience, and yeah more power than I knew what to do with. Lots of shots were sailing long on me. I think next time I’m going to put a deader string in here, or else go higher tension. NRG2 I think is too powerful in this frame at this medium-low tension. It's great for comfort, but again despite its reputation I find NRG2 a little bit stiff-feeling, but that's a whole other topic to write way too much about.

I reorganized the weight to bring down the power, and now there’s just a tiny touch of lead at 3 and 9, and some under the grip to help with the head-heavy, hammer feeling, and now it’s 336g with a 325 swingweight, and this feels just perfect. I get all the stability, but it’s much more maneuverable and far less sluggish than the 330ish swingweight that seems to be the average for this frame. It swings more freely and smoothly through, and I can even be a little whippy at this swingweight.

I could have just stopped there and made do with the 7G, but I was noticing that my shoulder was starting to tap me on the, well the shoulder I guess. One of the things that I think I’m too much of a dumb-dumb about is how swing weight manifests differently in standard vs extended length rackets. And if anyone has any smarts about this, please do fix my brain on this issue.

Because at one point in this experiment, I had the 7G and 5G at the same exact static and swing weights. But the 5G was far easier to swing, and the extended 7G took way more effort, making my shoulder a little tight and colicky. I found that surprising, and it just made me realize yeah this is all a bit more complicated than I realized.

But overall, swinging the 7G just felt like a whole production, and while it was fun, it was a different kind of fun, and it didn’t feel optimal. And again if you told me “that’s your racket for life, deal with it”, I’d be a happy camper. But I’d always be thinking about playing with a shorter stick with a bigger sweet spot, and playing more freely. And I did ultimately find myself thinking that, given how difficult I found it to hit the sweet spot consistently, I just wasn’t at that 4.0+ level where I think both of these rackets probably shine better than they do in my hands.

(cont'd)
 
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wedge

Rookie
Ki 295 and Black Ace 300

I had already tried the Ki5 and Black Ace 300 before ever trying the 5G. I gave them both a workout and came away with very definitive, not-especially-positive feelings. The Ki5 at least in 295 form is too light and unsolid, and it’s compounded by a hollow, tinny feeling that never gave me confidence. In fact I’d say it undermines the comfort that these rackets are ostensibly intended to rep, and it just isn't a quality sound/feeling. Now that I’ve played with a bunch of them, it seems like all the more modern PK frames seem to have this hollowness and clanky metallic quality to them which is a little unfortunate. Dampeners help a little. I have to think most people wouldn’t mind or notice, but I guess it’s something I’m sensitive to, and from reading the forums, many other people are too.

The Black Ace 300 was a nicer hit than the Ki5, but it feels very similar in terms of power as the 5G – you need to really give it something in order to generate pace and depth. I was getting good spin with both, and both rackets volleyed effectively, but my serves – which can suck even on the best of days – sucked a little extra with both the Ki5 and BA300.

I also couldn’t serve very well with the 5G, for what it’s worth. Maybe I need to work on my serve in general :laughing: But with the 7G, once I had the length dialed in, I was serving absolute cannons, and enjoying remarkable control – for the first time since coming back to the sport, I was able to aim really specifically within the service box. And as a somewhat shortish bloke, I found that extra reach mildly revelatory! I just had to get used to a higher contact point and a slightly altered toss.

I think at some point I'd be interested in trying the Black Ace 315. But I'm side-eyeing the Ki series at this point. The 295 didn't feel like something I would be happy with.

Q5 315

Folks were really hyping the Q+5X, and just in general talking up how PK seems to really have a knack with extended rackets. And someone local was selling an almost-new Ki5X for bupkis. But after the 7G, and feeling that the length and balance was too different to truly feel comfy with, I wanted to see what the Q series frames were like in normal length. I had an opportunity to get a first gen Q5 315 (not the +) that looked like it had never been played with, so I went with that as an ambassador of the Q continuum.

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The Q5 315 is a very interesting frame, and a very beautiful one to boot. On a nighttime court with floodlights, it glitters and sparkles with hologrammy goodness. It's probably the prettiest of all these frames.

This one came in slightly above spec at 340g, with a 322 swing weight. It’s a much, much more powerful frame than the 5G, but what came through after playing with it for a session, is how unforgiving the racket is outside a very clearly defined sweet spot. If you get it right in that spot though, it feels like an ultra-cushiony Pure Drive. Outside that spot? Very harsh and boardy feeling with unpredictable shot response. (This Q5 315 was also set up with NRG2 at 52bs, and feels like a really good match for the frame.) It got me to thinking, maybe the kinetic sand doesn’t entirely immunize your arm from harm … I certainly felt those off-center hits -- this is a stiff frame!

I wish I had the lighter Q5’s, or one of the modern Q+ updates to compare against, but the consensus from users on the forum seems to be that relative to the 5G/7G, the Ki5 and Q+ rackets are not in the same level of comfort.

I was also noticing that once you get used to an extended racket, it is VERY WEIRD AND HARD to readjust to a 27” frame. They feel strangely toylike and unserious!

Overall, I came away with the impression that the Q5 is like, the absolute perfect racket for someone.

Someone out there wants a 340g, ultra-powerful 16x20 Pure Drive with a comfier hit that punishes you with hardcore boardfeel if you suck a little bit too much. You know who you are!!


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(cont'd ... yes really)
 

wedge

Rookie
Black Ace 105 (first generation)

So, I had high hopes for the Black Ace 105. It split the difference at 27.25”, meaning hopefully it would feel more natural to swing and appease the shoulder gods. And the thing about the 5G and 7G is that, despite transmitting so little shock to the elbow, they’re still pretty stiff! And they have that stiff feeling on contact accordingly. But the BA105 is at least notionally flexier than either, and the more open string pattern had me thinking the whole package might be more lively and user-friendly.

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These are actually hard to find now in nice condition! TW had one for sale used for 150, but I decided to order one from overseas since I could see it was in near-perfect condition. It came strung with a highly notched set of NXT Soft which the seller said was 45 pounds, but was almost certainly softer than that by now. It came in with the right swing weight at 328, but weighed only 314g, giving it a bit of a head-heavy feel. I was also worried about stability at that weight ... I had wanted to get the whole thing heavier anyway so I got a grip 2 instead of 3, and just replaced the stock grip with a Wilson Shock Shield and overgrip, and that alone got it up to 332, and with an overgrip it was right at a 3. No lead needed!

(I actually think it could do with a bit more weight in the handle, so before my next session I’ll try that out.)

A few things struck me right off the bat with the BA105 – first, having tacky, matte paint on only one side of the throat is mildly psychotic. I think it would have been better if it had matte paint on zero sides. Or even fewer sides than that, I don't know how sides work.

I’m glad the new BA105 seems to be full-gloss, because besides feeling just generally gross, having it asymmetrically applied is baffling. I could see someone getting benefit from it if they insist on always holding the racket one way, since you can tell which way is up without looking. But we shouldn’t be encouraging these people in their self-destructive ways :laughing:

Second, this racket swings like a normal-length racket after all. Amazing what a difference that quarter inch makes. No sense of polarization, and the racket feels smooth all the way through the swing.

Third, shaking both the handle and hoop give the distinct impression of there being a LOT more tungsten sand in these rackets than any of the other frames.

And finally, this racket reallllly misses out on the incomparably solid feeling of the 5G/7G. When I took delivery of the 105, I did a brief bounce test, just bouncing a ball on the stringbed. And it’s fairly clanky and metallic and off center hits are buzzy and vibratey. I think the classic frames have truly spoiled me, because now that I know a racket CAN feel that ridiculously solid, I want them all to feel that way! It’s just such a reassuring feeling and sound.

However once I get to playing with the 105, I could barely notice any of those stray buzzes and vibrations. Frankly, any concerns I may have had floated away like a fart in a tornado. This is a very, very user-friendly frame that instantly made all aspects of my game better.

No, NXT Soft at <45lbs is not the right setup lol … everything was sailing WAY long, so I had to start playing with more spin. But then, the notches in the stringbed were making such loud clicks on movement and snapback that my opponent was complaining about them.

But what this frame lacks in the classic 5G/7G solidity, it makes up for in sheer playability. It’s got a very generous sweet spot, and I was enjoying very effective shots even in the upper hoop and lower towards the throat. The more open stringbed was costing me a little bit of control, but it was more than compensated by the fabulous power, spin and depth I was getting on literally every shot. I would actually say that it didn't play like a 105 -- more like a really forgiving 100.

Stability wasn’t on the same level as the classic frames, but it was still excellent. I never once felt the sensation of twisting in my hand, and one thing it shares with the 7G is really gratifying counterpunching power. It gobbles up serves and hard-hit shots almost (but not quite) as well as the 7G, and in general gave me tons of confidence.

Yeah, with this string setup I really had to play with lots of spin to keep the shots in, which isn’t really my game. But if I used my imagination about how this frame would play with a lower powered multi at like 54lbs, without the notches, I bet it would be a blast to play a more flat game as well.

I went back and forth between the BA105 and 7G a bunch, and it was an eye-opening experience. Honestly both were so different, and so interesting and satisfying to play with, and honestly so unique, that I could absolutely have committed to either. But ultimately, I came to the conclusion that I am not in the best position to get the most out of the 5G/7G. I’m just not consistent enough to cope with the 78 inch head, and lack the experience and preparation needed to really make a 7G work optimally. If I had better fitness and technique, yeah I would get even more out of them than I did.

The 105 was a serious a-ha moment of like, “this racket is made for someone of exactly my skill level.” And for someone who has been horsing around with 200G’s and Prince Graphite Pro’s, this was a really welcome thing! I could finally swing out the way I wanted, and there was just enough weight – to say nothing of the kinetic system – that I didn’t fear for my elbow. And after an extended session, my elbow was in the clear, and my shoulder made no fuss. Fuss-free shoulder, shining heart :love:

(cont'd ... last one!)
 
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wedge

Rookie
C5 Ki Sling Tour

The plan now is basically to sell a bunch of other rackets that I know I won’t be playing with again, and save up to buy the brand new BA105. Honestly I’d just pick one up without a demo at this point. The one I have is such a generous, friendly, powerful, easy racket to play, has so much honest feel without any overwhelming dampening gubbins, and just the interesting combination of specs, that I think it’s a bit of a goldilocks frame for me.

I did however pick up this bizarre, chrome-plated PK kinetic frame that I don’t recall ever seeing for sale here in the US – a C5 Ki Sling Tour. The mold looks identical to the 5G, but in general it sorta looks like a hybrid of a 5G and a Redondo.

KtRn2uY.jpeg


It looks like really nice plumbing!

I got it kind of as a meme, wanting to play with it at a tournament on a sunny day so I can try and blind my opponent or something :giggle: I mean, not really but, it’s just a cool looking thing. Specs are 323g/326sw/5HL. It actually has a very nicely balanced feel!

Unfortunately it came strung with what looks and feels like some bargain-basement nylon. So I still need to string it up before trying it out for realsies, but it feels very stiff, and I reckon there's ample reason to suspect it should play like a stiffer 5G. I don’t expect it will win over the BA105, and even if it does, there doesn’t seem to be many existing in the world, so I would not want to commit to it. But I’m happy to have such a dopey, eye-catching thing on the wall, since my personal rule is, as long as I can potentially play with it, I get to keep it :laughing:

Other rackets in the PK kinetic line that I am interested in are all the PSE versions of the 5G and Ki – I’ve just gotta know what these are like, I mean they seem bananas? Also, the heavy Q Tour frames with the 98 inch heads seem really appealing, though one of the lessons I’ve drawn from my experience with the BA105 is that although I love playing with small-headed frames (and will always come back to them for fun), when I do so I’m really just larping as a much better player than I am. And maybe it’s okay to play with a skill-appropriate frame.

I also noticed that Asia got Ki frames that are much lighter than the 295 we get – there’s a 285, and I believe I saw a 260 edition of one of the Ki frames. Obviously not for me but I’d be fascinated to see what the kinetic tech feels like in such a light frame.

Anyway that was a lot of writing, but these Pro Kennex frames are really fun to think about and mess around with! I really hope they continue making rackets for a long while to come, because even the comfiest rackets on the market are still not in the same league as a racket with kinetic tech. And they've made tennis a source of unbridled joy for me, rather than a constant worry, having concern in the back of my mind that I'm doing damage to my body. What a gift! I hope everyone tries these frames -- even if you're not in the arm problem boat, they're just great frames, each so unique, and there's something here for pretty much everybody.

Hopefully there's some info there that might be useful for someone. Thanks for reading!!
 
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struggle

Legend
Been playing the ki5 320 since 2016 (same 2016 model since....). It's just a stiffer 5G.

Suffered TE and GE at times with other frames. Tried the MG Radical MP for awhile,
but wanted more power/spin. PK is no joke regarding the technology.

FWIW, i used an extended Prince for awhile. Speedport Black. It was stiff, but the extra length
is also trouble on an arm that is troublesome IMO. I don't suggest LB racquets unless you really need
(1/4-1/2" only) reach/swingweight.

At some point i'll have to buy again, unsure which model....

On a side note......What replacement grips are PK users going to? I have been ok
with the original mushy synthetic grips, but they are falling apart over time. I was using leather prior to going PK. Im using
4-1/2 and don't want to reduce the size. Strongly considering the Gamma Hi-Tech (or leather)
TIA!!
 

Soundbyte

Hall of Fame
I've used many Pro Kennex Frame. The 7G lineage I think is best, like Q+5x Pro. They had a very very nice Pro player level frame called the C1 Pro I got from Japan.
They just need to modernize their cosmetics. It's holding them back IMO
 

mmazzinin1

Semi-Pro
As already discussed, 7G is a great frame. A bit old school as it does not fit 100% the modern "spinny" game as it is not easy to generate racquet head speed with it. However, it is best in class for stability. Best double frame ever, in my opinion.

I really appreciate the Ki15 300 (2022). PK best seller in Italy/Europe. Super powerful, a spin machine. Superior to the 7G in almost everything except for (a bit less) comfort. However, it is stiff, very stiff, and SW is high (330+). Both the 7G and Ki15 are great, (the ki15 fantastic), but nothing miraculous for the elbow. Match them with the wrong strings set-up, and they will tear you apart as their DRA is among the highest in the market. But combine them with multi or with gut/syngut hybrid (or even a soft mono) and they are best in class.
 
I use TW Private Label Leather Grips (25mm x 1300mm x 1.5mm Tan) with two overgrips on my ProKennex Black Ace Pro (2021) [L2 = 4 1/4]. Previously I used Head Hydrosorb Pro but I wanted something more durable and heavy.
 

struggle

Legend
I use TW Private Label Leather Grips (25mm x 1300mm x 1.5mm Tan) with two overgrips on my ProKennex Black Ace Pro (2021) [L2 = 4 1/4]. Previously I used Head Hydrosorb Pro but I wanted something more durable and heavy.
Yes, I’ve used the TW leather several times (thickest and widest, whichever one that was…..perhaps the same, I don’t recall). They are perfectly fine.

I'm sure i still have some of these that i removed...
 
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mucat

Hall of Fame
But the 5G I picked up on a whim from that sports place of used equipment where you play it and then do so once more, it was different. The first time I played with it, my elbow literally felt like it was getting BETTER as I played. Again, I realize I'm not a special snowflake in being bowled over by kinetic tech. But boy it was unreal -- it was like I was benefitting from motion and circulation and exercise without any of the strain. And after a 3 hour hitting session, I felt like I hadn’t played a single minute. I could have played all night.

I also experienced this "elbow healing" experience myself multiple times. The most recent one was just a couple months ago, my arms was hurting from testing too many new racquet/string combinations. So I have been going back to PK exclusive for almost a month now and my arm is almost pain free now. I am currently rotating between Ki 10 305, Q+5 Pro, Ki 5 320. The interesting thing is, all those PK racquets are not soft racquets, they all have stiffness of high 60s, close to 70.
 

struggle

Legend
I also experienced this "elbow healing" experience myself multiple times. The most recent one was just a couple months ago, my arms was hurting from testing too many new racquet/string combinations. So I have been going back to PK exclusive for almost a month now and my arm is almost pain free now. I am currently rotating between Ki 10 305, Q+5 Pro, Ki 5 320. The interesting thing is, all those PK racquets are not soft racquets, they all have stiffness of high 60s, close to 70.
Which year/version of the Ki5 320 are you using? I'm still using the 2016 iteration (unsure when it was released...).

I've yet to search for a replacement and not sure what would be most similar, currently. Suggestions?
 

mucat

Hall of Fame
Which year/version of the Ki5 320 are you using? I'm still using the 2016 iteration (unsure when it was released...).

I've yet to search for a replacement and not sure what would be most similar, currently. Suggestions?
I think it is the 2016 version as well, yellow/black/sliver.
None of my PK racquets feel similar to each other. Ki 10 305 is muted and powerful. Q+5 Pro has more feel and hefty and powerful. Ki 5 320 is more fast swinging and muted. All 3 have similar power level, they are all stable and they are all comfortable.
I would guess either the latest Ki 5 320 (does it exist?) or 5G or wait for the next iteration of Ki 5.
 

wedge

Rookie
I use TW Private Label Leather Grips (25mm x 1300mm x 1.5mm Tan) with two overgrips on my ProKennex Black Ace Pro (2021) [L2 = 4 1/4]. Previously I used Head Hydrosorb Pro but I wanted something more durable and heavy.

Do you find that the 1.5mm TW grips are best for keeping the grip size as close and accurate as possible? I really wanted to start using leather grips, but I can't really tell whether the 1.3 or 1.5mm thicknesses will keep the grip the same or enlarge/ensmallen it.

Both the 7G and Ki15 are great, (the ki15 fantastic), but nothing miraculous for the elbow. Match them with the wrong strings set-up, and they will tear you apart as their DRA is among the highest in the market.

Curious what DRA means here? I keep discovering tennis racket terms I need to learn! There's no end to them.

I can definitely report that after 2 sessions with the 7G, my arm in general was not as happy as it was after sessions with the 5G. It was "fine", but I could definitely tell that my shoulder wasn't as happy. Not dealbreakingly unhappy but enough of a sign that I should keep the search alive. After removing the lead and bringing the swingweight way back down to low 320's, it felt much better. Makes me think I should be happy after all that I got such a light-swinging 7G.

After a long session with the BA105, I had mostly the same feeling as 5G -- no arm parts complaining, and now a couple days later, it feels like I hadn't played at all. I feel like that feeling is the gold standard. Worth bearing in mind that was with very low tension NXT 17 of course. I'll be cutting it out this weekend and restringing with something like X1 Biphase at 53 or so, to make it a bit more rational to hit with and not have to go full Nadal on every shot with the spin.

I'm curious if anyone has tried the new Black Aces yet, particularly the new 105. I love the idea of a flexier frame, but I'm not sure if lighter would be too appealing, especially if this means we could conceivably get a racket with static and swing weights in the 310's if it's out of spec. But it's probably super smart to make it more appealing to a mass audience.
 

wedge

Rookie
I also experienced this "elbow healing" experience myself multiple times. The most recent one was just a couple months ago, my arms was hurting from testing too many new racquet/string combinations. So I have been going back to PK exclusive for almost a month now and my arm is almost pain free now. I am currently rotating between Ki 10 305, Q+5 Pro, Ki 5 320. The interesting thing is, all those PK racquets are not soft racquets, they all have stiffness of high 60s, close to 70.

This is the most interesting aspect of these frames. Instead of making racket decisions based on what an arm can tolerate, the kinetic frames let us make frames based on our personal preferences instead. So if we like the feeling of a stiff frame, we can go with it for the most part! I didn't think I'd ever get to play with another stiff racket again.
 
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mmazzinin1

Semi-Pro
DRA is the dynamic stiffness, which is what matters to determine arm-friendliness. RA is measured in one single point at the throut. Modern frames flex in multiple points, making the RA obsolete. 7G has an RA of 66, but a higher DRA of 68.4 as per USRSA, so it is stiff. It cannot be combined with stiff strings or the Kinetic wont be enough.

I would not mix arm and shoulder. Extended frames with higher sw are an absolute killer for thr shoulder. Kinetic does not help in any way with shoulder issues....
 

jxs653

Professional
As already discussed, 7G is a great frame. A bit old school as it does not fit 100% the modern "spinny" game as it is not easy to generate racquet head speed with it. However, it is best in class for stability. Best double frame ever, in my opinion.
A weakness often associated with longer racquet is volley. Some people even recommend to choke up when executing volley. I wonder what makes 7g best doubles frame ever. You're supposed to play lots of volleys in doubles.
 

A_Instead

Legend
Some of the proK are very nice.. Black Ace 105 was a good one..
But now they are out of price range when purchased new unfortunately..
I will look for used ones..but their market share is small so its tough to find them.
I do want to try the new version that just came out.
 

mmazzinin1

Semi-Pro
A weakness often associated with longer racquet is volley. Some people even recommend to choke up when executing volley. I wonder what makes 7g best doubles frame ever. You're supposed to play lots of volleys in doubles.
In doubles VS big hitters, you don't swing much or big. You basically mainly block the opponents' shots and push the volleys and aim for big serves. 7G is unbelievably stable, HL enough to be relatively maneuverable despite the hefty SW, and with controlled power. It has a very good touch thanks again to the stability, the 16x20 tight pattern, smallish 100' head (99' probably) and the thinner 22mm beam. It serves bombs.

FYI- Bryan's brothers used extended 27.5" racquets...
 

jxs653

Professional
In doubles VS big hitters, you don't swing much or big. You basically mainly block the opponents' shots and push the volleys and aim for big serves. 7G is unbelievably stable, HL enough to be relatively maneuverable despite the hefty SW, and with controlled power. It has a very good touch thanks again to the stability, the 16x20 tight pattern, smallish 100' head (99' probably) and the thinner 22mm beam. It serves bombs.

FYI- Bryan's brothers used extended 27.5" racquets...
Thanks for the elaboration. And I didn't know Bryan brothers used 27.5 inch racquets.
 
Do you find that the 1.5mm TW grips are best for keeping the grip size as close and accurate as possible? I really wanted to start using leather grips, but I can't really tell whether the 1.3 or 1.5mm thicknesses will keep the grip the same or enlarge/ensmallen it.
The 1.5mm TW Leather Grip is the thicker one. If you want to keep your grip size the same I would pick the thinner 1.3mm TW Leather Grip.

I couldn't tell a huge difference between the Head Hydrosorb Pro (1.75mm) and the TW Leather Grip (1.5mm) but synthetic ones deform more over time.

I don't think you can make the grip size of Prokennex frames smaller as they don't use grip pallets. Everything you add will increase the grip size. The thinnest replacement grips are probably the TW Leather Grip (1.3mm) and Tourna Pro Thin Replacement Grip (1.25mm).
 

wedge

Rookie
I don't think you can make the grip size of Prokennex frames smaller as they don't use grip pallets. Everything you add will increase the grip size. The thinnest replacement grips are probably the TW Leather Grip (1.3mm) and Tourna Pro Thin Replacement Grip (1.25mm).

Appreciate the info on the TW grips.

Can confirm that PK doesn't use pallets which is a bit unfortunate, but I reckon they have their reasons.

Wilson Feather Thin has the Tourna Thin grip beat by a mile btw!!
 

struggle

Legend
Thanks for the elaboration. And I didn't know Bryan brothers used 27.5 inch racquets.
B Bros are bigger than the average man, with many other better attributes as well.

If one says he thinks length is better at volleys, i wouldn't disagree with him, but for most
I would disagree/suggest normal length.
 
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mmazzinin1

Semi-Pro
I strung the PK 7G with Klip Legend nat gut mains / Prince Duraflex crosses @ 52 (+10% PS) / 49. Wow, that is the ultimate combo! the stiffness of the 7G combined with this hybrid is just phenomenal. More comfy than multi and playability is excellent. Solid but plush, powerful, with a fantastic touch and adequate spin potential (for now). If you prioritize arm comfort, I wont look anywhere else. I will report back on playability as long as the hours add up...

(The same hybrid on the BAP does not work as well as on the 7G. BAP is super-flexy and super-soft, and it just plays better with poly (++RPM Blast) in the crosses, in my opinion).
 
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