What have you done other than post here? I think you are not even #1 million in whatever it is that you do.
PRO TENNIS....FOR RICH KIDS ONLY?
- Thread starter Spanglish72
- Start date
What have you done other than post here? I think you are not even #1 million in whatever it is that you do.
Hmgraphite1
Hall of Fame
You made an ignorant statement which i pointed out by making a similar generalization so you would hopefully recognize the simplistic fault in your approximation to a logical statement. Rather than admit your ignorance and learning from it, it appears you are digging in your heels to cloud the original statement. There, now you're corrected.
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
I gave up if you think indian lower class and middle class = American lower and middle class. In India more than 80% people earn less than 800 use per month. Good luck with coaching their kids and sending outside India for tournaments with 800usd per month.
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
You're the one who is stubborn and thinking all 3rd worlders think westerners are rich. Then I and to correct you by saying there is a difference in indian middle class , lower class and American middle class , I meant that.i didn't mean all yanks are rich smh.
But the expenses are also based on the same currency.
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
What she done in slam genius ? Lol whiteknighting for that overrated player? You're insulting Vijay by clubbing Sania Mirza with him. She was a journey woman in slams, perennial 1stbor second rounder.
tennisenthusiast
Hall of Fame
When I was growing up in 70s I could not even afford tennis racquet...forget about coaching. It was game of elite. There are many thousands like me who have the passion and dedication but couldn't afford the sport.
How many Slams did Vijay win LOL except the one in Octopussy? Sania has 3 doubles and 3 mixed doubles Slams and was #27 in singles. Vijay was #23. His career record sounds much less impressive than hers.
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
Yeah but exchange rates? He will not even afford a week stay for kid abroad even with 2k USD salary while American middle lass with 7k-10k USD salary can . See the difference? Also, 80%of indian are below it. So realistically speaking in India only 5-%of population can afford to train their kids.
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
Lmao Vijay played singles semi if wimb, what Sania did? You whiteknighting hard for her won't change the fact. He was a top 10 and she was perennial 1st or second rounder at slams. Noone cares about doubles .
Why is it ridiculous if there are people who pay for that?
His highest ranking was #23. That is not top 10.
Both Vijay and Sania started out playing on cowdung courts.
It is all about the person.
My father bought me a wood racket for Rs. 100 when I was a kid and made me feel very guilty about the expense. He also enrolled me in a club (where Paes, Ramesh and others have played) with a big fee and made me feel even guiltier. I quit after a few days because the "coaches" and ball boys were asking me for tips every time and never played till many years later. But today I have grown into a world-class club player with Federer-like strokes.
Hmgraphite1
Hall of Fame
I never made that claim, perhaps your confused with another poster. The only statement i made was, "your wrong in thinking westerners can't understand how hard it is to make it in anything when you come from nothing."
You grouped people into classes, and then you grouped all western classes together as one, and made your ignorant statement.
That is 68 million, or 21% of the US population!
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
Alcohol may affect your performance. I smoke Cohibas.
But doesn't that mean that you still have 133+ million people (10 percent of the population) who CAN afford to raise tennis players? That's far more than the population of many highly successful tennis nations.
Yes, my impression as an outsider, looking at India's performance in the Olympics, in soccer and tennis, and some other international sports, is that Indians collectively seem not to care about any sport except cricket. Why is that? Culturally and linguistically, India is a very diverse country. Why so much emphasis on a single sport (and an imported sport at that, unlike with Canada and ice hockey)?
That is not true, and there are some further considerations about the last statement.
Re: not caring - badminton, table tennis, soccer, field hockey, track and field are all significant sports in India, and you will see evidence of that in South East Asian and Commonwealth games, which are not viewed in the West. The performance may not bring gold medals all the time, but it is not all that bad either. Check out Prakash Padukone or Saina Nehwal.
Re: cricket, it is also a religion in countries like UK and Australia and West Indies. Like soccer is in Europe, Africa, and South America. You can also ask why only some sports are the craze in the US. It is like that.
Re: imported sports - traditional Indian agrarian society did not have modern sports (like in most traditional cultures). What existed instead were activities of strength and endurance which did not require much equipment, like rodeo with bulls, kabaddi/khokho with two teams of players trying to grab somebody, body building, wrestling, and yoga. So sports as a modern entertainment industry is an imported concept, and the older traditional forms do not provide the same entertainment value anymore (like in the US rodeos are really not hot viewing material on TV).
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
Thats not true some of the pockets of India(North east, Kerala, Goa ,Bengal ,Jharkhand) etc are crazy for football and in India Argentina has more fans than Argentina . Football is very popular here in many states but problem is we have only one true football academy in India(Jamshedpur). With out infrastructures not many can take on football as a profession at cost of studies. As far as tennis is concerned it's a rich man's sport and i live in a city with population of 2million and with good standard of living by Indian standard , yet we don't have a single court or any player who is playing tennis at national level. Here, cricket is the king and money flows like anything in cricket , it's the world's richest board. Even a semi decent player here can make a good earning by playing at state level . Cricket is something we are forced deep down our throat since childhood . Everyday we have a cricket match here on TV with news channels talking about it all the time. We qualified for Asia cup football and played really well in football but media gave no **** about it , no buzz nothing. Kids need national idols and inspiration to take up any sports and here no other exist in media. To get media coverage we will have to win world cup in football only then they will cover it. I'm sick of cricket now.
It is a good thing for tennis that Venus did not get into the WNBA. What do you think would have been her chances there?
Yeah me too. Whenever I am in India, I start watching cricket on the popular channels but then switch over to Doordarshan Sports, which being a government channel is mandated to show all the other sports like table tennis, badminton, volleyball etc.
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
Noone cares about woman's tennis. If they played slams seperately then they would struggle to earn 1/10th of what they are earning now.
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
I threw my cable set top box when my cable guy came to ask for bills, I stopped watching TV long ago. It's cricket everywhere . I stream tennis and football on sonyliv and hotstar. Where do you live brah?
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
Btw your service motion is as smooth as your idol Federer's serve
It has become even better of late. I have the best tennis technique among adults in my club, and across most clubs I think.
Shaolin
Talk Tennis Guru
Lets see those top ranked kids from your section try to play the tour though. Requires tons of money to go out there and get points.
Noletheking
Hall of Fame
Can you reveal the truth? You're a fed fan that's why you always jinx Nadal whenever he's about to win any slam
your cover is blown.
mtommer
Hall of Fame
No, I don't. Someone making 7-10K in the US wouldn't be able to afford to spend a week abroad anywhere. You see, along with the increased income comparatively, you also pay increased expenses for everything. What is the average low income rent housing in India? What is the average low income rent housing in the US? According to Numbeo, avg. city rent is $1,261 per month. in the US. In India, it's $163 (in US dollars). Other expenses? Yup, they're exponentially higher also. Now, where I won't argue is that quality of life, what you get for said expenses, can be higher and in that way the poor of the US are "better off" often times.
True, but his numbers were per month. 120K/year is pretty good in the US.
mtommer
Hall of Fame
Fair enough, although avg salary in the US is 50K.
TnsGuru
Professional
My younger sister was fortunate to get to play junior tennis starting at the age of 12 which is considered late but somehow got a full ride scholarship to play at a Division 1 school back in the early 90's. She had everything going against her, she was small 5 ft 2 inches tall and we came from modest means. She got into tennis by accident after she decided not to pursue gymnastics anymore because she felt it was getting too dangerous.
She one day picked up an old wood racket we had lying around the house and said "lets go play" and I agreed but at the same time not really taking her seriously. That afternoon while hitting and for some reason she hit very well for someone who never hit before.....no mishits on a 65 inch wood racket which is hard to accomplish, even for a seasoned player.
She basically took a group lesson and the instructor thought she had been playing for some time and we told him that she is just a beginner. Amazed at what he was seeing he helped her to refine her game and within a few months started playing junior tourneys. What we saw at these tournaments were basically rich parents with privelaged kids with all the best equipment, clothes and even personal coaches.
We often felt ashamed at first going to these things because we were considered "poor" and we often got snickered at by the rich parents and kids. I guess this must have lit a fire under my sister as she worked her tail off and started winning. Needless to say the snickering stopped when she started winning tournaments and was a top player in the Mo. Valley section where we lived.
We were very lucky to have met a very nice coach who was part owner of a club near our home who noticed her talent and offered to let her play at his club for free. She not only got to train with the top juniors in the area but she managed to catch and exceed some of the best players there.
Our family will always be greatful for this kind coach who helped my sister achieve something that at the time seemed hopeless because of our financial means. I think there is hidden talent that is overlooked nowadays because unfortunately to be really good you have to come from money. Tiafoe is a guy who has a great story, coming from modest means and making it as a pro. He was fortunate his dad worked at the tennis complex he helped build. What if he didn't work there and he wanted his son to play? It might not have happened if the young Tiafo was never discovered playing at this complex.
I often wonder if the USTA is trying to discover the next US champion but seems like talented kids who could become really good players are often overlooked because they can't afford the training, travel and coaching needed to succeed. I think this is why the U.S doesn't dominate the world of tennis anymore because they cater to the wealthy and not looking for athletes who are talented and driven to succeed. I find the athletes who come from modest financial means have a better work ethic to succeed than a kid who comes from wealth IMO. A poor kid has something to achieve whereas a rich kid doesn't even know what hardship feels like.
Sometimes it takes a little luck to find the next champion. Take Agassi for example, talented but didn't come from a wealthy family and for sure couldn't afford the tuition full time at the Nick Bolleterri IMG academy but Nick discovering his potential offered him a full ride scholarship and the rest is history.
She one day picked up an old wood racket we had lying around the house and said "lets go play" and I agreed but at the same time not really taking her seriously. That afternoon while hitting and for some reason she hit very well for someone who never hit before.....no mishits on a 65 inch wood racket which is hard to accomplish, even for a seasoned player.
She basically took a group lesson and the instructor thought she had been playing for some time and we told him that she is just a beginner. Amazed at what he was seeing he helped her to refine her game and within a few months started playing junior tourneys. What we saw at these tournaments were basically rich parents with privelaged kids with all the best equipment, clothes and even personal coaches.
We often felt ashamed at first going to these things because we were considered "poor" and we often got snickered at by the rich parents and kids. I guess this must have lit a fire under my sister as she worked her tail off and started winning. Needless to say the snickering stopped when she started winning tournaments and was a top player in the Mo. Valley section where we lived.
We were very lucky to have met a very nice coach who was part owner of a club near our home who noticed her talent and offered to let her play at his club for free. She not only got to train with the top juniors in the area but she managed to catch and exceed some of the best players there.
Our family will always be greatful for this kind coach who helped my sister achieve something that at the time seemed hopeless because of our financial means. I think there is hidden talent that is overlooked nowadays because unfortunately to be really good you have to come from money. Tiafoe is a guy who has a great story, coming from modest means and making it as a pro. He was fortunate his dad worked at the tennis complex he helped build. What if he didn't work there and he wanted his son to play? It might not have happened if the young Tiafo was never discovered playing at this complex.
I often wonder if the USTA is trying to discover the next US champion but seems like talented kids who could become really good players are often overlooked because they can't afford the training, travel and coaching needed to succeed. I think this is why the U.S doesn't dominate the world of tennis anymore because they cater to the wealthy and not looking for athletes who are talented and driven to succeed. I find the athletes who come from modest financial means have a better work ethic to succeed than a kid who comes from wealth IMO. A poor kid has something to achieve whereas a rich kid doesn't even know what hardship feels like.
Sometimes it takes a little luck to find the next champion. Take Agassi for example, talented but didn't come from a wealthy family and for sure couldn't afford the tuition full time at the Nick Bolleterri IMG academy but Nick discovering his potential offered him a full ride scholarship and the rest is history.
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TnsGuru
Professional
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Noletheking
Hall of Fame
Garbage poast with no idea of reality
TopspintheTerrible
Hall of Fame
They both played D1 at top ranked schools. That was as far as they got. One became a teaching pro at an academy.
I don’t think money was the reason why they didn’t go pro.
Money makes it easier. But becoming a pro tennis player is an incredibly risky endeavor. Actors/Actresses have a higher chance making it in Hollywood than players do making it on Tour.
Luka888
Professional
It was a pizza 'restaurant'. They had to sell all gold from their own house to support a young Novak. They had to borrow the money at 20% per months. Huge debt. It paid off.
It is a valid question. Tennis is expensive. Why don't we have tennis players from Ghana, Morocco, Algeria?
I do sympathize with people in India too. Sania Mirza was accused of so many different things. A great lady. I loved watching her on the court.
I'm Caucasian btw but who cares? In a perfect world everyone should have the same opportunity. It looks like, it doesn't work that way
. I wanted to play tennis as a young kid and my dad said 'It's too expensive'. Go play something else. I can only hope that we'll see more tennis players all around the world. From what I can get 'the player council' is trying to fight for it ... Easier said than done.
Luka888
Professional
Very good point and it's true.
Spanglish72
Rookie
Great post.
The USTA has no interest in middle class or poor kids, because they can't afford the travel expenses required to achieve and maintain a high national ranking.
Nearly every top kid in this nation comes from a wealthy family like a Doctor, Lawyer etc.
The only reason the Williams Sisters, Osaka, Tiafoe or Djocovik made it is because they had someone wealthy or influential take them under their wing to help fund their coaching and travel expenses.
Basically they got lucky Most Pro's that we are watching on the Pro tour came from rich families, which is much different from most other pro sports.
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TopspintheTerrible
Hall of Fame
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter if your dad owns a Hedge Fund—you’re either good enough to make it on tour or you’re not.
Djokovic made it because he’s one of the most talented humans to ever pick up a tennis racquet. Same goes for the Williams sisters. Tiafoe has already made it to the top of the game. Much more to do with winning consistently than their parents’ net worth.
Enga
Hall of Fame
There's always gonna be luck involved when it comes to being an "elite". There's no such thing as a 100% merit based game. Most of the people who are "talented", are only so because they spent most of their youth playing the game, and if not this game, other games. They developed the hand-eye coordination, movement, and experience early, and most of the time it was their parents who pushed them to do so, or at least gave in to every request and supported the direction the child wanted to go in. I don't wanna hear BS about how Djokovic is simply a talented guy who came from a humble background. Humble if you consider being the equivalent a Serbian noble to be "humble". Or the Serena sisters. Their parents PUSHED like crazy for this to happen for them. Then they got into the hands of the right talent scouts, and took off from there. Not everyone can do this. The game of LIFE takes more people than the game of Tennis. It is luck, and being in the right place at the right time. Good for them, but don't act like there aren't millions who never even had a chance to get a start in the game.
Spanglish72
Rookie
I believe he was discovered by a Serbian coach at a group tennis clinic who offered to coach him (not sure if it was for free or a small amount).
After coaching him for a few years she contacted Niki Pilic (former top 50 pro) when he was 12 to see if he would take him at his academy in Germany, because she believed he had real talent (again not sure if Pilic gave him a free scholarship or not).
Either way it sounds like he got help from quite a few people along the way. Help that he probably couldn't have afforded to pay for, because his Daddy wan't a billionaire.
Spanglish72
Rookie
That's the problem. Millions can start the game, but only the rich or very, very lucky are allowed to keep progressing, because the coaching and travel are so expensive.
I see so many kids drop out because they can't afford the coaching or travel costs to keep pace with the elites.
Not because they weren't as talented as the billionaire's kid, but because their school teacher Mom and bus driver Dad couldn't afford to send them to travel to tourneys.
So next time you see that Pro playing please realize they aren't as great as you think. Their parents being well off had a lot to do with them getting to where they are today.
Is that really true? Most kids are not good enough or their family prioritizes education over sports.
TopspintheTerrible
Hall of Fame
Is this something personal for you?
Spanglish72
Rookie
Believe me it's true.
The flights and hotel cost to travel for these national tournaments is out of reach for most middle class Americans to do more than once a year at most.
Spanglish72
Rookie
Just facts.
Local UTR tournaments are the solution to this. The kids can find good opponents regardless of age or gender right where they are.
rovex
Legend
It was a pizza 'restaurant'. They had to sell all gold from their own house to support a young Novak. They had to borrow the money at 20% per months. Huge debt. It paid off.
It is a valid question. Tennis is expensive. Why don't we have tennis players from Ghana, Morocco, Algeria?
I do sympathize with people in India too. Sania Mirza was accused of so many different things. A great lady. I loved watching her on the court.
I'm Caucasian btw but who cares? In a perfect world everyone should have the same opportunity. It looks like, it doesn't work that way
I can only hope that we'll see more tennis players all around the world. From what I can get 'the player council' is trying to fight for it ... Easier said than done.
Could you provide some links so i can see the real background to Djokovic’s upringing
Spanglish72
Rookie
I hope so.
It could definitely even the playing field, but it doesn't address the coaching costs involved to become a top player.
Haven't seen too many UTR tourneys yet.
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