PrinceMoron
Legend
Little concerned that you don’t know “hoi” is Greek for “the”....
The the many...?
Perhaps you like to repeat yourself?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
PRO TENNIS....FOR RICH KIDS ONLY?
- Thread starter Spanglish72
- Start date
Little concerned that you don’t know “hoi” is Greek for “the”....
The the many...?
Perhaps you like to repeat yourself?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
eman11
Semi-Pro
When somebody says "less fortunate" I think of kids that do not start tennis until early to mid teen years, not kids who were still privileged enough to somehow start early in their lives i.e 5 to 10 yr olds.
And I said I started summer before high school, in West Texas that is last four years of secondary schooling (9th through 12th), meaning I was 14 (By no means do I mean this in a bad/rude way, I am just correcting you since some places there are Jr Highs and others- like West Texas- only have Middle then High schools).
When someone says "less fortunate" I think of families that struggled to get by, and when I think of tennis and kids that start early, I think of those kids' families being off well enough to start their kids early. Of course that is not always the case, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is how the majority sees it.
Also, I meant to say "my parents were never involved", not sure if that makes a difference in how you read it.
If this is clear but we still don't see eye-to-eye, we can agree to disagree
no hard feelings from my end.
Spanglish72
Rookie
I guarantee you that not one top 50 ranked kid in the United States came from a family that made less than $100K over the last 5 years.
Tiafoe doesn't count, because he got free lessons as his Dad worked at a tennis facility.
EloQuent
Legend
So you have a sample size of 3, and 33% doesn't fit your hypothesis so you remove it from the equation.
There's only 3 Americans in the top 50. Isner, Tiafoe, Steve Johnson. Johnson's father was a club tennis coach so I doubt he was wealthy. Played in college. Isner also played in college and went to public school for HS, so I don't think he's rich either but could be wrong.
Spanglish72
Rookie
I said top 50 ranked kids, not pros. The next U.S. pros will probably come from that group of ranked kids.
What I'm saying is if your parents are making less than $100K per year you are not making it to an elite level in this day & age.
Maybe in other countries that isn't the case (Canada? UK?) but in the USA you have little chance to get to a high level without A LOT of money for coaching, equipment, tourneys & travel expenses.
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tennis24x7
Hall of Fame
Nole did not come from a humble background, his parents owned a resort or restaurant. Compared to middle class Indians he was well off.
tennis24x7
Hall of Fame
USTA is paying millions to Patrick MacEnroe, can't you see the steady stream of top 10 players he has produced.
tennis24x7
Hall of Fame
borna coric
Semi-Pro
I don't know where you guys live but here in Fairfax County and Arlington County, there are well maintain PUBLIC tennis courts just about everywhere. They are absolutely FREE for everyone. If you go Langley HS in Mclean VA, you will see six beautiful tennis courts with benches right next to the football and track field so you can do a lot of HITT training along with tennis. These facilities are FREE to everyone. Not many people use the tennis courts because this is a very wealthy area so a lot of people belong to health club or country club that also have both indoor and outdoor tennis. A few miles down the road is Yorktown high school also with beautiful tennis courts, football field, and baseball field for FREE public usage. The courts are extremely well maintained and get resurface every few years. You just can not ask for a better tennis environment than Northern Virginia, except during the winter time when everyone is playing indoor but between March and November, you can play outdoor.
You don't have to take my word for it, the picture below is one of the tennis courts at Yorktown high school. It is stunningly beautiful. There are a lot of restaurants nearby that you can go and eat, drink and chill out after playing tennis on weeknights or weekends. Btw, lot of well off Indians in Fairfax and Arlington County here so tennis very popular here because here in Northern Virginia, you only see the "have" and "have more".....
You don't have to take my word for it, the picture below is one of the tennis courts at Yorktown high school. It is stunningly beautiful. There are a lot of restaurants nearby that you can go and eat, drink and chill out after playing tennis on weeknights or weekends. Btw, lot of well off Indians in Fairfax and Arlington County here so tennis very popular here because here in Northern Virginia, you only see the "have" and "have more".....
His mother is a Math professor.
borna coric
Semi-Pro
A math professor in the United States makes A LOT less than a cyber security engineer. You're lucky if you can make $140k/yr at a university. A cyber security engineer makes around 200k/yr. The really good one, with top security clearance, can make about 350k/yr. If you live in areas like San Jose or Washington DC, 140k/yr does not buy a whole lot. 140k/yr give you a good but not very comfortable life, like taking private lessons three times a week at $100/hour.
Mom = Math Professor + Dad = Tennis Coach means Stevie was not middle class.
borna coric
Semi-Pro
Stevie's dad is probably a very good coach because Stevie turned out to be more than OK (i.e. winning back to back NCAA men single championship and rank in the 50th. Stevie's dad salary is probably around 200k/yr. We have a clown coach here in Northern Virginia with less than half the achievement of Stevie's dad and he makes 300k/yr running clinics and give privates lessons to the wealthy.
Therefore, Mom = 140k/yr + Dad 200k/yr = definitely Upper Middle Class
rovex
Legend
abuse doesn’t get you plane tickets and hotel lodging.
If you’re one of these parents but have no money you may as well not put your kid through the trouble.
rovex
Legend
Which is ironic as high level football‘s stinking with money. Football’s too commercialised now. It’s a business. Rich clubs get the best players.
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D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
Some folks say even rec tennis is expensive but I think it very much depends on where you are. I'm fortunate enough to have good options where I live. My local club isn't expensive and my uni only charges a near-nominal fee for the facilities although I'm also a student there. It's a lot more if you're not.
Equipment has a certain start-up cost and then isn't too bad. I own four racquets which I paid retail for, so not super cheap, and the ongoing costs are balls and stringing. I have strung a racquet once before as I was interested in how it's done but I didn't do a very good job and from there I figured it was best left to the professionals. I don't break strings much, of course if you're a pro then string is going to be a bigger issue. I've never bought my own reels - I'd probably save money if I did though, my stringer obviously charges a small premium for using their own stock.
Balls aren't that expensive here. Maybe they're more elsewhere. I bought a box of cans a short while ago. My local club has a lot of my old ones lying around, some of the other members really leech off others' balls haha. I'm not fussed though.
I've never really employed coaching except for serving and basics when I was fairly new to the sport. Self-teaching and learning from playing has been fun. I've learned to love brick walls and hitting drills after classes at uni
Equipment has a certain start-up cost and then isn't too bad. I own four racquets which I paid retail for, so not super cheap, and the ongoing costs are balls and stringing. I have strung a racquet once before as I was interested in how it's done but I didn't do a very good job and from there I figured it was best left to the professionals. I don't break strings much, of course if you're a pro then string is going to be a bigger issue. I've never bought my own reels - I'd probably save money if I did though, my stringer obviously charges a small premium for using their own stock.
Balls aren't that expensive here. Maybe they're more elsewhere. I bought a box of cans a short while ago. My local club has a lot of my old ones lying around, some of the other members really leech off others' balls haha. I'm not fussed though.
I've never really employed coaching except for serving and basics when I was fairly new to the sport. Self-teaching and learning from playing has been fun. I've learned to love brick walls and hitting drills after classes at uni
EloQuent
Legend
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
How much do you pay for a racket string job? Where I leave, it’s the equivalent to USD 4.
When somebody says "less fortunate" I think of kids that do not start tennis until early to mid teen years, not kids who were still privileged enough to somehow start early in their lives i.e 5 to 10 yr olds.
And I said I started summer before high school, in West Texas that is last four years of secondary schooling (9th through 12th), meaning I was 14 (By no means do I mean this in a bad/rude way, I am just correcting you since some places there are Jr Highs and others- like West Texas- only have Middle then High schools).
When someone says "less fortunate" I think of families that struggled to get by, and when I think of tennis and kids that start early, I think of those kids' families being off well enough to start their kids early. Of course that is not always the case, but it wouldn't surprise me if that is how the majority sees it.
Also, I meant to say "my parents were never involved", not sure if that makes a difference in how you read it.
If this is clear but we still don't see eye-to-eye, we can agree to disagree
Do you have animosity for rich white kids who were able to get tennis coaching very young , I hope not
D
Deleted member 688153
Guest
I pay $45 Australian dollars, which is equivalent to $32 USD per racquet. Cost of living is high here
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
I would have to learn how to string my rackets if I moved to Australia. I like strings that break frequently.
BGod
G.O.A.T.
Look. Tennis requires more of an investment than euro football or basketball. Hockey and american football have a lot more scholarship opportunities, etc.
The OP asked about players not from wealthy backgrounds. Novak Djokovic the current #1 is one. In the past Agassi, Sampras Lendl and Borg weren't born rich as far as I know. Wilander is a toss-up but I tend to think his father turning a parking lot into a court means he had more money than most.
As far as coaching cost, well that's largely on the parents. A lot of good rec tennis players or semi-pros could teach their kids up to a pretty good level but I see them just cough up the money because I guess they don't have the time? A lot of successful hockey players for example were taught by their father's enough to get on a team and then it went from there. Maybe that's the selfish aspect of the sport itself, a parent would rather play with their friends than hit balls with their kid.
The OP asked about players not from wealthy backgrounds. Novak Djokovic the current #1 is one. In the past Agassi, Sampras Lendl and Borg weren't born rich as far as I know. Wilander is a toss-up but I tend to think his father turning a parking lot into a court means he had more money than most.
As far as coaching cost, well that's largely on the parents. A lot of good rec tennis players or semi-pros could teach their kids up to a pretty good level but I see them just cough up the money because I guess they don't have the time? A lot of successful hockey players for example were taught by their father's enough to get on a team and then it went from there. Maybe that's the selfish aspect of the sport itself, a parent would rather play with their friends than hit balls with their kid.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
With approximately 8 string jobs you pay a racket, that’s tough.
eman11
Semi-Pro
Lol of course not!! Lord willing my kids will be "rich [not white] kids" who will be given the opportunity to start tennis at a young age. I don't know how you got to thinking that or why you thought that, but I'm sorry if I sounded aggressive. That was not my intention. I was just explaining the way I view "less fortunate" from that of TopspintheTerrible
heninfan99
Talk Tennis Guru
It's for creepy fan boys
mtommer
Hall of Fame
You prove the opposite of what you're trying to refute. No one said that having money isn't easier, but there are mentors, coaches, etc. that usually do help those who don't outright have connections. It happens all the time. I've seen this many time with kids who come to the Nats that get support and access to college recruiters from Stanford, USC, Michigan all the way down to smaller colleges local to the area. These kids often don't have coaches or parents that can travel with them and are able to compete due to an extensive volunteer network that Kzoo has for the Nats tournament. Yes, this is one tournament. However, that tournament is the head of almost every other single tournament in the US, bar none. That trickles down. There is one thing that all coaches look for, the ability to compete, regardless of income.
The irony in this thread is that there are those who actually do deal with juniors and those who don't but "think" on the subject who feel that they "must" be right because it makes "sense". Again, yes, having money does help, but only so much, and you'd be surprised how little it translates into success. I'll give you a perfect example. At the Nats you have typical teenage cliques. You have the SoCal kids. The academy kids. The small town kids. You have the kids who come from richer backgrounds make fun of the kids that don't play with good technique or who don't have the matching equipment. You have the kids who do have matching equipment and are good but humble. You have some kids without money who also have the equipment and are near the top. And everything in between. What you don't see is a lot of coaches going after the predominantly academy kids or rich kids. Why? Because the vast majority of those kids will never get better and will only be middling team players at whatever college they choose based on academics. In other words, even with the top coaching and facilities, they really aren't that great. The arrogant kids who often forego college because they think they're better than what they are often wash out in Futures and end up in college anyway.
Pointing out that money makes the potential for success easier is nothing more than life and applicable to anything, really. Yup, those without money often have to try harder but there's always people willing to help out those who are sincere and earnest in there efforts to succeed. It's funny how when a kid "without money" succeeds, everyone is quick to point out, "Well, yeah, but that's because....." and they keep saying it for each person. "Yeah, but..." "Yeah, but..." "Yeah, but..." ....there's always a, "Yeah, but..." Eventually you just have to stop and realize that there's always someone willing to help out, you just have to find them. And then, they can be the, "Yeah, but they knew x...." story.
The Safinator
Rookie
There are probably too many to count. Most of the players who come from wealthy backgrounds do not make it on tour.
borna coric
Semi-Pro
I don't know about you but having a lot money definitely help a lot in both academics and tennis and I'll tell you why. Two people with the same intelligence, capability and work ethic, one has a lot of money and one without. The one with money can afford to pay for the best math, science, reading and writing tutors and best coaches every day and the one without any money can't afford to do that. In the long run, the one with money, with so much better guidance, will do much better than the one without money. Just about every kids I know in my neighborhood has private tutoring 1-1 for SAT/ACT preps at $100/hr and all of them scores at least 1550 out of 1600 on the SAT. Please don't tell me that money does not matter a lot because it does matter a lot.
You have to compare apple to apple, meaning two kids with the same desire and work ethics, the one with money will definitely come out on top in the long run because of better guidance, better lessons and just about everything else.
If I hang out with Warren Buffet, I might not be as good as the "oracle of Omaha" but I am willing to bet that I will be very good at making money.
I don't believe it. SAT exam is pretty good at filtering out people and no amount of tutoring can beat the system to that extent.
EloQuent
Legend
Have you been following the news
Yes. It was about cheating. It was not about tutoring enabling a score of 1550/1600.
borna coric
Semi-Pro
You're not very bright are you? Have you been following the news lately? Even without outright cheatings, the SAT/ACT system can be defeated rather easily. There are only so many questions on the SAT/ACT questions pool, if you have good memories, you can get near perfect score.
I saw that and I think it is a myth. The College Board has elaborate statistical methods to prevent repeat questions from occurring within a certain number of years.
borna coric
Semi-Pro
I am not sure what planet you're living in but it is a well known fact that the SAT/ACT can be easily manipulated. There is a cottage testing prep industry that will increase kids SAT/ACT score. I have two kids that are in high school and for the past two years they have gone to SAT test prep that cost $100/hr for 1-to-1 instructions. There are so many kids there that it is not even funny, and that they all come from upper middle class or wealthy families. Many kids took the SAT for the first time without SAT prep and score around between 1200 and 1300 out of 1600. After they attend the SAT prep, the score goes up between 1520 and 1600. Yes, having money can give you a big advantage in SAT/ACT over someone who do not.
Now back to tennis, if you have two kids of the same age, same intelligence and same work ethics. Kid A comes from family with wealth and kid B comes from the ghetto.
Kid A can afford to hire Emilo Sanchez or Pavel Slozil as private coaches (they charge $800/hr) and kid B can only afford to hire coach at $30/hr. Who do you think will be better a tennis player in the long run?
Would you rather get financial advice from Warren Buffet or some financial adviser that you pay $100/hr?
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
Bhaisaab it costs more to live in the US too. It's not just about how much you earn. If you ever go to the US, don't go on those tour packages and roam around in the bylanes. Talk to people working low paying jobs like bus driver or cabbie. There is a heck of a lot of inequality in the USA and the media and Hollywood do a good job of hiding it. I have had beggars come over and ask for our food at DC Union Station. Same scene as in VT or Churchgate. I can't say what the situation is in Europe. Inequality might be lower there.
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Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
I live here in India and there's simply no comparison between the infrastructure available for those other sports and cricket. And please, cricket is nowhere near a religion in UK the way it is in India. In India, people will literally watch any and every cricket match as long as there are Indian players playing in it. You could maybe compare it to American football (because Americans too seem to watch college football) but even in America, the football mania doesn't come at the expense of every other sport. MAYBE when today's kids grow into adults, they will turn out to be more of soccer fans but I wouldn't bet on it. There's really nothing to compare with the cricket mania in India.
Sudacafan
Bionic Poster
How would an Indian teach a non Indian to love cricket the way they do?
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
It's hard to say because, for one thing, I am bored AF of cricket now myself and only watch selectively. There's literally a match going on every day. When I was growing up, we had off seasons and breaks between tourneys. For another, we grew up watching cricket as kids and at that age, it's an instinctive choice and hard to explain.
What I would say to you as a tennis fan, though, is cricket too prizes elegance and tactics. It's not about being violent (though cricket CAN be dangerous, it's not fun to get hit on the head by a 95 mph bouncer with a cricket ball); it's more about style and aesthetics. Unlike tennis, of course, it's slow going and you don't get the adrenaline rush of a long and hard fought rally like say THAT Fedal rally from the AO 2017 final. But that also means there's more scope for strategy and tactics to influence the game and for there to be momentum shifts within the match.
Dolgopolov85
G.O.A.T.
So...here's a primer of brutal fast bowling in cricket. At that time, we hadn't seen a performance like this from a bowler (equivalent of pitcher) in a long time in cricket. Check out @ 1:08 esp, that was really quick.
Spanglish72
Rookie
People need to stop saying poor kids can be just as good as rich kids at tennis, It's just not true.
Poor kids CANNOT afford to pay for multiple flights, hotel rooms & car rentals to play all of the national tourneys required to keep pace with the best juniors in this country.
Quit kidding yourselves, It costs thousands of dollars per year. Most families are just struggling to pay their mortgage & car payment let alone pay for little Johnny to fly all over the country playing tennis tourneys. These national tourneys are reserved for the rich elite of the world & they are what separates good sectional players from becoming great national players.
If you can't afford to travel to play nationals or ITF's your pathway to the Pro's is over.
O V E R !
The USTA should fund these kids to be able to travel to these national tourneys if they are good enough to qualify, but can't afford the travel costs to make it there themselves.
Poor kids CANNOT afford to pay for multiple flights, hotel rooms & car rentals to play all of the national tourneys required to keep pace with the best juniors in this country.
Quit kidding yourselves, It costs thousands of dollars per year. Most families are just struggling to pay their mortgage & car payment let alone pay for little Johnny to fly all over the country playing tennis tourneys. These national tourneys are reserved for the rich elite of the world & they are what separates good sectional players from becoming great national players.
If you can't afford to travel to play nationals or ITF's your pathway to the Pro's is over.
O V E R !
The USTA should fund these kids to be able to travel to these national tourneys if they are good enough to qualify, but can't afford the travel costs to make it there themselves.
bjk
Hall of Fame
I don't get this argument. If you are a good junior what's the benefit in travelling to play another junior? I think Danielle Collins learned by playing adults in her neighborhood. There are plenty of adults who can serve as opponents for a good junior.
Spanglish72
Rookie
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