Pro tournaments seem very popular - but tennis is dying ?

atatu

Legend
I don't know, so far this year I've been to Indian Wells and Wimbledon and they were both packed. I couldn't even get into an outside court to watch a first round doubles match at Indian Wells and I waited 6 hours in the queue to get in to Wimbledon for second and third round matches. My friend in DC just told me he tried to get tickets to the Citi Open but it was sold out. I also went to the local Austin WTA tournament and attendance was pretty, pretty, pretty good.
 

atatu

Legend
On the backend, we know how well the USTA has supported rec players and promoting pickleba...ermmm, tennis.

Really they just follow the money and if they don't support tennis you will see pro pickleball become the next big thing.
I'm not sure about that, I find pro pickleball pretty boring to watch, I think it's probably more fun to play than watch. I personally think that Americans are excited to see Americans winning something, but once Europeans or even Chinese players start doing well in pro Pickleball people might not be as excited. If Ben Johns gets schooled by some guy from Spain who used to play Padel the fans might not watch.
 

ChaelAZ

G.O.A.T.
I'm not sure about that, I find pro pickleball pretty boring to watch, I think it's probably more fun to play than watch. I personally think that Americans are excited to see Americans winning something, but once Europeans or even Chinese players start doing well in pro Pickleball people might not be as excited. If Ben Johns gets schooled by some guy from Spain who used to play Padel the fans might not watch.

Seeing some pro athletes jump in is brining more popularity, and as a tennis player I HATE that advertising algorythms for social media think I will be interested in anything and everything pickleball, even with actively trying to block accounts focused on it. The fix is in buddy!
 

Benf15harp

Hall of Fame
for starters tennis is only in a particular city(mostly) once per year so it’s nothing new to be sold out due to the rarity. It’s like the lakers being in Washington DC …more tix are sold. That doesn’t mean that the wizards(tennis) sell out all the time
Tennis on the ground level is not exactly dying but it’s not living either. It’s a tricky time with padel and pickle gaining steam and pro tennis itself has lost a lot in the last year with Roger and Serena gone
Novak missing 2 half seasons nadal missing tons of time etc etc. all the popular names are almost done and tennis is left with basically Alcaraz and Iga for popularity. Neither will ever come close to Serena or Roger or Pete or steffi and so on and so on in popularity for tennis. The 100 yr. Old miss Venus Williams matches probably get more views than anyone currently on tour.
This is a two things can be true at the same time situation.
 

Fabresque

Legend
Fedal fans have this hilarious idea in mind that the sport is dying a painful death without their idols around even though it’s still as popular as ever, even in the US.

The reality is that tennis viewership is still enjoying some pretty healthy numbers, regardless of whether or not two players are still playing.
 

Crocodile

G.O.A.T.
I am of view that Tennis needs to constantly review and plan forward with their operations.
In Australia Pickleball is nowhere near as active but what some tennis communities are doing here is that rather than competing with Pickleball or Padel the objective is to incorporate it. Same with Futsal or 5 A side soccer, beach tennis and volleyball and even implement cardio sessions and fitness training to draw people out of the gyms and onto the court.
I believe the biggest threat to tennis is kids choosing to sit at home and play on their computers rather than get outside and hit tennis balls. As a tennis community we need to come up with some solutions for that. I have a few ideas but will wait and see if I can get it going.
 

Fiero425

Legend
Breaking news - pro tennis is not dying.

Well I definitely don't watch as much as I used to! W/O the Big 3 it was hard to watch; esp. if the so called elites are just trying to take the cover off the ball w/ mindless aggression from the baseline! Few players outside of Alcaraz & Medvedev show anything but ripping the ball! The women are just as boring! :unsure: :rolleyes:;)
 
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accidental

Hall of Fame
I think this is mainly an American and Australian point of view because tennis isn’t as popular in those countries as it was in the 60’s-80’s

In the rest of the world tennis is more popular than ever. If the US Open or the Aus open went bankrupt there would be dozens of countries willing to step in and spend huge amounts of money
 

Start da Game

Hall of Fame
I think this is mainly an American and Australian point of view because tennis isn’t as popular in those countries as it was in the 60’s-80’s

In the rest of the world tennis is more popular than ever. If the US Open or the Aus open went bankrupt there would be dozens of countries willing to step in and spend huge amounts of money

exactly this......the success of american and australian male players has declined steadily over the last two decades, leading to narratives like tennis is dying......
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
I don't know, so far this year I've been to Indian Wells and Wimbledon and they were both packed. I couldn't even get into an outside court to watch a first round doubles match at Indian Wells and I waited 6 hours in the queue to get in to Wimbledon for second and third round matches. My friend in DC just told me he tried to get tickets to the Citi Open but it was sold out. I also went to the local Austin WTA tournament and attendance was pretty, pretty, pretty good.

Not only packed, but also packed for the doubles, both Wimbledon and Indian Wells.
It may be regional.
In Europe, futbol is by far the most popular sport. Everywhere you look, there are soccer fields and soccer balls and soccer jerseys.
In fact, they are so ubiquitous most all tennis clubs bar them from wear. I mean mine allows me to wear my biker gang colours and emblems, but no jerseys. That's how they feel about soccer.
Unlike the US, where EVERY park had a public court where I came from, public tennis courts are a rarity in most European countries.
Tennis is also mainly seen as an individual sport, well, because it mainly is.
And then there is the class thing I touched on earlier.
In the US, tennis is mainly considered to be a middle class sport nowadays. In Europe, not so much.
 

Olli Jokinen

Hall of Fame
Not only packed, but also packed for the doubles, both Wimbledon and Indian Wells.
It may be regional.
In Europe, futbol is by far the most popular sport. Everywhere you look, there are soccer fields and soccer balls and soccer jerseys.
In fact, they are so ubiquitous most all tennis clubs bar them from wear. I mean mine allows me to wear my biker gang colours and emblems, but no jerseys. That's how they feel about soccer.
Unlike the US, where EVERY park had a public court where I came from, public tennis courts are a rarity in most European countries.
Tennis is also mainly seen as an individual sport, well, because it mainly is.
And then there is the class thing I touched on earlier.
In the US, tennis is mainly considered to be a middle class sport nowadays. In Europe, not so much.
Depends on which European countries you mean. Denmark and Romania are pretty different.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
Depends on which European countries you mean. Denmark and Romania are pretty different.
That why I did say 'most' vs simply saying 'all'.
Having said it, how popular is tennis VS football in Scandinavia and Romania?
I should also qualify the class part. In the US, even working class folks are considered 'middle class', whereas in Europe, the middle class is usually the professional office type, and in many cases is suggested to be college educated. In other words, soccer is considered a more working class sport vs tennis, even though it is popular across all classes.
 
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Olli Jokinen

Hall of Fame
That's a thing that is very similar. Football is THE sport in all of Europe, but depending on countries, also sports like handball, basket, and ice hockey are generally bigger sports due to them being team sports. But the class thing about tennis is very different from country to country. Denmark is a rich country, Romania is not. So tennis is pretty middle class i Denmark like it would be in all Nordic and northwestern (Germanic) European countries. I suspect that tennis is an almost non-existing sport in a country like Albania.
 

onehandbh

G.O.A.T.
I believe the biggest threat to tennis is kids choosing to sit at home and play on their computers rather than get outside and hit tennis balls. As a tennis community we need to come up with some solutions for that. I have a few ideas but will wait and see if I can get it going.
That and kids choosing other sports instead of tennis (in the US).

Viewship and fans coming to see the big tournaments is doing fine.
 

Hood_Man

G.O.A.T.
I imagine it comes and goes in waves. With Federer and Serena retired and Rafa surely on his way out soon as well, the star power has definitely taken a hit.

If the numbers of recreational players truly is down it'll surely be down to fewer facilities being available though. I won't speak for everywhere else but there are barely any tennis facilities where I live - it's squash that people are playing as a racquet sport now, and even that is being threatened by council budgets for community sports facilities being slashed.

Anything that can't be played on an open patch of barely maintained grass is at risk round here, so really only rugby and football are being prioritised.
 

robthai

Hall of Fame
Djokovic broke the slam record and it was only a big deal for his fans. It literally felt like nobody cared except for Nolefam.
 

Oval_Solid

Hall of Fame
as a sport they should trim it down to 30 players
having up to 100 pro players is just too many for any one to care about
the sport is too diluted with nameless faces
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
That's a thing that is very similar. Football is THE sport in all of Europe, but depending on countries, also sports like handball, basket, and ice hockey are generally bigger sports due to them being team sports. But the class thing about tennis is very different from country to country. Denmark is a rich country, Romania is not. So tennis is pretty middle class i Denmark like it would be in all Nordic and northwestern (Germanic) European countries. I suspect that tennis is an almost non-existing sport in a country like Albania.

I love tennis, obviously. But if I had a child that showed great promise in sports, I would steer them towards football.
Well, OK I wouldn't because I can not stand it at all. But if I were smart, I would do. Every country has dozens of players they love and can name, and they are all filthy rich.
 

Airspun

Hall of Fame
It's not dying, it's just not epic anymore :alien:
has not been as epic since:

10101_original.gif
 

dadadas

Semi-Pro
I love tennis, obviously. But if I had a child that showed great promise in sports, I would steer them towards football.
Competition in football is tough. The chance of becoming a pro is 1 out of 5000.

Guys from African nations like Egypt, Morroco, Senegal, Nigeria, etc... can be better than your child at football. They play the sport like its their only pathway to escape poverty.
 
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CHIP72

Semi-Pro
Why were there no people watching the Washington final? Looked like 10 % capacity in the stadium.
There was a 2+ hour lightning + rain delay after the 2-2 game in the 2nd set. A lot more people were there before that delay.

NOTE: I attended the Washington Open singles finals and stuck around through the rain delay, seeing the end of the Evans/Griekspoor match.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
for starters tennis is only in a particular city(mostly) once per year so it’s nothing new to be sold out due to the rarity. It’s like the lakers being in Washington DC …more tix are sold. That doesn’t mean that the wizards(tennis) sell out all the time
Tennis on the ground level is not exactly dying but it’s not living either. It’s a tricky time with padel and pickle gaining steam and pro tennis itself has lost a lot in the last year with Roger and Serena gone
Novak missing 2 half seasons nadal missing tons of time etc etc. all the popular names are almost done and tennis is left with basically Alcaraz and Iga for popularity. Neither will ever come close to Serena or Roger or Pete or steffi and so on and so on in popularity for tennis. The 100 yr. Old miss Venus Williams matches probably get more views than anyone currently on tour.
This is a two things can be true at the same time situation.
Yeah. There was no big name to watch in Citi open this year and I didn't go. The top 5 seeds were Fritz Tiafoe FAA Hurkacz and Dimitrov. I would not go to watch these guys solely at all. Where are the big and marketable names?

10 years ago we had big 3, Delpo, Wawrinka. Even non slam winners like Ferrer Tsonga and Berdych had some recognition.

This nishokori gen and later Medvedev gen both failed so much they are not worth my money now.
 

Razer

G.O.A.T.
Tennis is actually dying, but very slowly. The Big 3 carried Tennis for so long, so it is not possible to suddenly drop dead out of the water once Federer retired, the death will be gradual. Tennis badly needs to find the next Federer who can carry Tennis as a superstar.
 

Bisquick

Rookie
I think pro tournaments are drawing in a good chunk of casual viewers looking for an experience to post on their social media for the most part.
I like my replays and commentary on tv, mostly stick to watching majors (just like golf) from home.
Interesting that Ash Barty who just retired last year has not been mentioned (won 3 of the 4 majors) but to me that was her game, effective but not a great watch.
 

nolefam_2024

Bionic Poster
All is boiling down to the steaming rights in USA. I had tennis channel for a year and I canceled it since I would also need peacock (come on no one will buy it), ESPN and others for match to match.

ESPN is part of the Disney group which is another thing Disney has ruined in recent times.
If you are not able to watch, you are not going to grow.

Even the Netflix show was super boring and no one is watching it. Check on the viewership ratings where f1 drive to survive is and where break point is.
 

WYK

Hall of Fame
Competition in football is tough. The chance of becoming a pro is 1 out of 5000.

Guys from African nations like Egypt, Morroco, Senegal, Nigeria, etc... can be better than your child at football. They play the sport like its their only pathway to escape poverty.

I'm not too bothered ;)
 

Bisquick

Rookie
All is boiling down to the steaming rights in USA. I had tennis channel for a year and I canceled it since I would also need peacock (come on no one will buy it), ESPN and others for match to match.

ESPN is part of the Disney group which is another thing Disney has ruined in recent times.
If you are not able to watch, you are not going to grow.

Even the Netflix show was super boring and no one is watching it. Check on the viewership ratings where f1 drive to survive is and where break point is.
Ya - not so bad for that up here in Canada. TSN showed winbledon as an example earlier this year. Coverage stayed on the same channel, local announcer would cut in when they were switching from ESPN to think it was ABC coverage but no channel hopping yet.
 
Welll.. Djoker/Nadal haven't retired yet. We'll see what happens by 2025 especially if we don't have some new winners in the circle. Up until Wimbledon people were tuning in to see if Djoker would complete the Calendar Slam this year.
 

Fiero425

Legend
Welll.. Djoker/Nadal haven't retired yet. We'll see what happens by 2025 especially if we don't have some new winners in the circle. Up until Wimbledon people were tuning in to see if Djoker would complete the Calendar Slam this year.

It's amazing how they're trying to retire the guy after winning the 1st 2 majors and was in the final of a 3rd! Something's wrong in the head w/ these people! He can still end up YE #1 even with the early restrictions to his play! :unsure: :rolleyes:;):giggle:
 
I'm not sure about that, I find pro pickleball pretty boring to watch, I think it's probably more fun to play than watch. I personally think that Americans are excited to see Americans winning something, but once Europeans or even Chinese players start doing well in pro Pickleball people might not be as excited. If Ben Johns gets schooled by some guy from Spain who used to play Padel the fans might not watch.
I doubt that there is anybody in the United States who loves Pickleball because they see Americans winning at it on TV lol. The United States is the least patriotic sporting nation that there is — people here just do not care about those things. Sometimes I feel that people from other countries project their own feelings of sports patriotism onto Americans.
 

atatu

Legend
I doubt that there is anybody in the United States who loves Pickleball because they see Americans winning at it on TV lol. The United States is the least patriotic sporting nation that there is — people here just do not care about those things. Sometimes I feel that people from other countries project their own feelings of sports patriotism onto Americans.
Yeah, I think you're wrong about that, agree to disagree. For example watching the Citi Open the other night and some fans start chanting USA USA ? The pickleball fans are very excited to see Ben Johns, etc etc winning pro tournaments. Once the Europeans start winning things might be different.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
for starters tennis is only in a particular city(mostly) once per year so it’s nothing new to be sold out due to the rarity. It’s like the lakers being in Washington DC …more tix are sold. That doesn’t mean that the wizards(tennis) sell out all the time
Tennis on the ground level is not exactly dying but it’s not living either. It’s a tricky time with padel and pickle gaining steam and pro tennis itself has lost a lot in the last year with Roger and Serena gone
Novak missing 2 half seasons nadal missing tons of time etc etc. all the popular names are almost done and tennis is left with basically Alcaraz and Iga for popularity. Neither will ever come close to Serena or Roger or Pete or steffi and so on and so on in popularity for tennis. The 100 yr. Old miss Venus Williams matches probably get more views than anyone currently on tour.
This is a two things can be true at the same time situation.
You have to allow time for the young players to succeed and gain a following.
The live crowds love Alcaraz and his energy and playing style.
If you haven't noticed that then you're just purposely being oblivious.
 

Mike Sams

G.O.A.T.
Tennis is actually dying, but very slowly. The Big 3 carried Tennis for so long, so it is not possible to suddenly drop dead out of the water once Federer retired, the death will be gradual. Tennis badly needs to find the next Federer who can carry Tennis as a superstar.
LOL rubbish!
Tennis thrived for generations before Federer came along and will continue to do so.
Matches like Sinner vs Alcaraz at USO made fans forget about the big 3.
Fans want entertainment and they're happy to buy tickets no matter who is playing.
Attendance is at an all time high as well.
 
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