"probably the highest level of tennis that I ever saw."

[Ray Mercer]

It's just tricky to have someone like Henman watching a match where Rafa where not his best and getting trampled by Fed on Fed's preferred surface coming to that conclusion, when you have Rafa himself (having been beaten multiple times on clay and all surfaces by Djokovic that year) himself having played both at their peak/prime on the biggest stages saying that Djokovic's level was the highest he's ever seen. I put more weight on Rafa's assessment for this reason.

If we compare 2006 (Fed's best season) with 2015 (Djokovic's best season), Fed had 3 slams and 4 masters while Djokovic had 3 slams and 6 masters. The competition he faced in getting those big titles was stronger as well. I know we'll probably disagree on that point, but objectively Federer beat 19 top ten players in 2006 while Djokovic beat 31 top ten players in 2015.

You realize an old Federer smacked Djokovic around 3 times in 2015 and had him on the ropes in other matches? On a quick court Fed can take the racquet right out of a Djokovic’s hand. Djokovic depends on grinding. The only reason Nadal praises Djokovic is because he can’t employ his backhand topspin abuse on a slow court to Djokovic like he can with Federer’s one hander. On a true fast court which requires elite tennis shotmaking skills there is nobody better than Federer. He can and has made Djokovic and Nadal look like challenger level players. I feel like people need to really go back and watch some Fed matches from 04-06 to see how sickening he was. Watch the 06 Masters Cup final against Blake and tell me you don’t just shake your head in amazement. That backhand half volley down the line from the baseline off a Blake ripper is just disgusting.

 

[BlueB]

We're splitting hairs, but here's another quote from Nadal at 2011 before the ATP WTF: https://bleacherreport.com/articles...-is-the-most-fun-tennis-player-to-watch-today

"Novak had an unbelievable season," Nadal said before the ATP World Tour Finals last season. "It's probably the highest level of tennis that I ever saw."

He has essentially said the same thing twice, once in 2011 and once in 2016. It only serves to strengthen the point.

That's better, thank you! Sorry I doubted you.
Nice to hear Nadal stayed just to his statements.

 

[Tweener]

You realize an old Federer smacked Djokovic around 3 times in 2015 and had him on the ropes in other matches? On a quick court Fed can take the racquet right out of a Djokovic’s hand. Djokovic depends on grinding. The only reason Nadal praises Djokovic is because he can’t employ his backhand topspin abuse on a slow court to Djokovic like he can with Federer’s one hander. On a true fast court which requires elite tennis shotmaking skills there is nobody better than Federer. He can and has made Djokovic and Nadal look like challenger level players. I feel like people need to really go back and watch some Fed matches from 04-06 to see how sickening he was. Watch the 06 Masters Cup final against Blake and tell me you don’t just shake your head in amazement. That backhand half volley down the line from try the baseline of a Blake ripper is just disgusting.

Which of these matches are you referring to as "old Federer" smacking Djokovic around? Kind of a head scratcher comment when you consider Djokovic beat him in both slam finals in which they played and had the 5-3 h2h on the year. Also interesting how he "smacked him around" in the RR stage at the WTF only to get "smacked around" harder in the final. Yes, I watched Federer in 04-06 and it was amazing stuff that got me into tennis. But really think about James Blake for a minute. An incredible point by Fed, but you're going to pick a point against James Blake as the highlight moment of Fed's peak? That's almost disrespectful to such a big legend of our sport.

Djokovic vs. Federer: 2015 Meetings

Event	Surface	Round	Winner	Score
Dubai	Hard	F	Federer	6-3, 7-5
Indian Wells	Hard	F	Djokovic	6-3, 6-7(5), 6-2
Rome	Clay	F	Djokovic	6-4, 6-3
Wimbledon	Grass	F	Djokovic	7-6(1), 6-7(10), 6-4, 6-3
Cincinnati	Hard	F	Federer	7-6(1), 6-3
US Open	Hard	F	Djokovic	6-4, 5-7, 6-4, 6-4
Barclays ATP World Tour Finals	Hard	RR	Federer	7-5, 6-2
Barclays ATP World Tour Finals	Hard	F	Djokovic	6-3, 6-4

 

[Ray Mercer]

Which of these matches are you referring to as "old Federer" smacking Djokovic around? Kind of a head scratcher comment when you consider Djokovic beat him in both slam finals in which they played and had the 5-3 h2h on the year. Also interesting how he "smacked him around" in the RR stage at the WTF only to get "smacked around" harder in the final. Yes, I watched Federer in 04-06 and it was amazing stuff that got me into tennis. But really think about James Blake for a minute. An incredible point by Fed, but you're going to pick a point against James Blake as the highlight moment of Fed's peak? That's almost disrespectful to such a big legend of our sport.

Djokovic vs. Federer: 2015 Meetings

Event	Surface	Round	Winner	Score
Dubai	Hard	F	Federer	6-3, 7-5
Indian Wells	Hard	F	Djokovic	6-3, 6-7(5), 6-2
Rome	Clay	F	Djokovic	6-4, 6-3
Wimbledon	Grass	F	Djokovic	7-6(1), 6-7(10), 6-4, 6-3
Cincinnati	Hard	F	Federer	7-6(1), 6-3
US Open	Hard	F	Djokovic	6-4, 5-7, 6-4, 6-4
Barclays ATP World Tour Finals	Hard	RR	Federer	7-5, 6-2
Barclays ATP World Tour Finals	Hard	F	Djokovic	6-3, 6-4

The 06 Masters Cup final is some of the highest quality tennis Federer has ever produced. The court speed is absolutely perfect for high end shotmaking tennis. A true Federer and tennis fan will recognize the significance and greatness of this performance. The point is Federer was able to push Djokovic hard and beat him several times despite being 9 years past his peak level. 9 years is an eternity. If you don’t appreciate Federer’s abilities please just ignore my posts.

 

[weakera]

He hadn't yet seen himself play the first two sets of the 2020 RG Final

https://twitter.com/x/status/1315404305902563331

 

[Sudacafan]

For a moment I thought this thread was started by @JoelDali .

 

[T007]

I thought Nadal said that after Doha 2016, where Djokovic tore him apart.

Did he say that in 2011 also? I cannot remember.

2016 Nadal was a shell of himself.

 

[T007]

Djok has 3 RG to Fed's 1. Fed played inspired tennis at the 2011 French Open and probably played his best RG match against Nadal that year (and the longest match they ever played at RG against each other) despite losing again to him. Then Djok turned around and beat Roger at RG the very next year. Djokovic is the only player to beat Rafa twice at RG, Fed never managed to get a single win over him there. Let me guess, you're going to reply with Rafa was compromised or not his best and Djok was lucky to get those RG wins or something. No matter how you slice it, Fed never won 4 slams in a row. The Nole slam included beating peak Stan and Murray at AO15, beating Roger at W15, and beating Roger at USO15.

Federer beat peak djoker whom as per you was unbeatable. He was close to going 2-0 against peak djoker in slams if not for 40-debacle.

 

[Tweener]

Federer beat peak djoker whom as per you was unbeatable. He was close to going 2-0 against peak djoker in slams if not for 40-debacle.

First of all, this post was about Nadal's assessment of the peak level Djokovic brought in 2011 (and also 2015) and whether his peak was most impressive. Since we're talking about 2011 - Novak beat Roger in straight sets at AO11, Roger beat him at FO11, they didn't play at W11, and Novak beat Roger again at USO11 after saving match points. Federer was close to going 2-1 with him at slams in 2011, but ultimately he couldn't beat him at USO. Djokovic was 4-1 against Roger in 2011 and 6-0 against Nadal. That's pretty impressive stuff. As I've mentioned in another thread, Fed did play amazingly well at the French Open that year and even gave Rafa the toughest match they've had at RG. I was impressed by Roger that year, and he seemed inspired to try to stop the Novak train, but he ultimately couldn't do it outside of RG.

Also, please reference anywhere in this thread where I said he was "unbeatable". I was just raising the discussion about whether his peak was underrated and potentially the greatest of all time. 2006 Fed was unbelievable and in contention as well, but he did go 2-4 against 20 year old Nadal and got straight setted by 19 year old Murray (hardly the peak for either of these players). It's just a discussion. No player at their peak was unbeatable as the records clearly show. I respect your opinion if you disagree with me or Rafa, as this is subjective.

 

[ABCD]

The point is Federer was able to push Djokovic hard and beat him several times despite being 9 years past his peak level.

August 2015: :

“I think I'm a better player now than when I was at 24 because I've practised for another 10 years and I've got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “I might not have the confidence I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it's ever been, I volley better than I have in the past.” “I think I've had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”

 

[Tennfan123]

Djokovic peak saw him getting beat by Ferrer indoors. I'd say a big no to whatever tomfoolery this thread is about.

 

[T007]

First of all, this post was about Nadal's assessment of the peak level Djokovic brought in 2011 (and also 2015) and whether his peak was most impressive. Since we're talking about 2011 - Novak beat Roger in straight sets at AO11, Roger beat him at FO11, they didn't play at W11, and Novak beat Roger again at USO11 after saving match points. Federer was close to going 2-1 with him at slams in 2011, but ultimately he couldn't beat him at USO. Djokovic was 4-1 against Roger in 2011 and 6-0 against Nadal. That's pretty impressive stuff. As I've mentioned in another thread, Fed did play amazingly well at the French Open that year and even gave Rafa the toughest match they've had at RG. I was impressed by Roger that year, and he seemed inspired to try to stop the Novak train, but he ultimately couldn't do it outside of RG.

Also, please reference anywhere in this thread where I said he was "unbeatable". I was just raising the discussion about whether his peak was underrated and potentially the greatest of all time. 2006 Fed was unbelievable and in contention as well, but he did go 2-4 against 20 year old Nadal and got straight setted by 19 year old Murray (hardly the peak for either of these players). It's just a discussion. No player at their peak was unbeatable as the records clearly show. I respect your opinion if you disagree with me or Rafa, as this is subjective.

19 year old Murray was better than peak Murray of 2010s marred by injuries. 2005-2009 was the peak Nadal on clay,Grass after his injury hiatus he was never the same player. Lost his foot speed. Watch AO 2009 Final.

And you cry hard about Djoker going 6-0 on Nadal. But what was djokers record Vs Nadal till 2010 h2h. Nadal still owned him in US Open 2 years Later. So djokers peak suddenly disappeared when he lost in 5 slams in between 2012 AO to 2014 Wimbledon.

He lost to Federer,Murray,Nadal. Once you enter your peak you should dominate. Fed did that till 2008.

 

[T007]

August 2015: :

“I think I'm a better player now than when I was at 24 because I've practised for another 10 years and I've got 10 years more experience,” Federer said. “I might not have the confidence I had at 24 when I was winning 40 matches in a row, but I feel like I hit a bigger serve, my backhand is better, my forehand is still as good as it's ever been, I volley better than I have in the past.” “I think I've had to adapt to a new generation of players again.”

There is difference between feel like and may have better. He never claimed he is better than his 20s

His best BH was 2017 version. His FH got worse after changing racket in 2017 through it helps him to add few miles. His clutchness declined after he turned 28-29.

 

[Tweener]

19 year old Murray was better than peak Murray of 2010s marred by injuries. 2005-2009 was the peak Nadal on clay,Grass after his injury hiatus he was never the same player. Lost his foot speed. Watch AO 2009 Final.

And you cry hard about Djoker going 6-0 on Nadal. But what was djokers record Vs Nadal till 2010 h2h. Nadal still owned him in US Open 2 years Later. So djokers peak suddenly disappeared when he lost in 5 slams in between 2012 AO to 2014 Wimbledon.

He lost to Federer,Murray,Nadal. Once you enter your peak you should dominate. Fed did that till 2008.

Lmao I "cry hard"? I know you want to paint me as some caricature of a Nole stan, I'm simply bringing up numbers and raising a discussion, quoting Nadal himself. I'm a fan of all of the big 3. Please relax, it would be more mature of you to simply dispute the points I made without the constant need for ad hominem.

I would continue to humor you, but you lost me at "19 year old Murray (in 2006) was better than peak Murray of 2010s marred by injuries (a period in which he made eleven slam finals, won 3 slams, and won 2 gold medals)".

 

[T007]

Lmao I "cry hard"? I know you want to paint me as some caricature of a Nole stan, I'm simply bringing up numbers and raising a discussion, quoting Nadal himself. I'm a fan of all of the big 3. Please relax, it would be more mature of you to simply dispute the points I made without the constant need for ad hominem.

I would continue to humor you, but you lost me at "19 year old Murray (in 2006) was better than peak Murray of 2010s marred by injuries (a period in which he made eleven slam finals, won 3 slams, and won 2 gold medals)".

Well pre 2010 Murray dominated Fed 7-3 h2h Your so called GOAT level of Murray which you think is after 2010s. Yes he won slams but he could have won 3 slams if not for peak Fed in 2008 USO,2010 AO. He won masters 1000 hard too by beating Djoker,Fed before 2010.

His overall game on Hard was better before 2010. He was better player on grass after he grew elder. He was never the same player after his surgery in late 2013-14

 

[ABCD]

There is difference between feel like and may have better. He never claimed he is better than his 20s

Dubai, February 2019

Question:

In 2003 you won your first title in Dubai. How much chances would the Federer of 2003 have against the Federer of today?

Answer from Federer:

Not many chances I believe. The game has extremely changed. It is more dynamic, faster and has become somewhat ruthless. The players are more athletic and the material makes the game faster. I myself have become better. In fact, I had to become better because I had new opponents and new challenges. Tennis on this level doesn’t allow you stagnancy.

 

[Tweener]

Dubai, February 2019

Question:

In 2003 you won your first title in Dubai. How much chances would the Federer of 2003 have against the Federer of today?

Answer from Federer:

Not many chances I believe. The game has extremely changed. It is more dynamic, faster and has become somewhat ruthless. The players are more athletic and the material makes the game faster. I myself have become better. In fact, I had to become better because I had new opponents and new challenges. Tennis on this level doesn’t allow you stagnancy.

Rubbish, James Blake and 19 year old Murray would've competed for GOAT status if not for Fed's level at that point. Fed was just being nice to his mediocre competitors in that comment knowing that he had declined to "old broken Fed" by that time.

 

[T007]

Dubai, February 2019

Question:

In 2003 you won your first title in Dubai. How much chances would the Federer of 2003 have against the Federer of today?

Answer from Federer:

Not many chances I believe. The game has extremely changed. It is more dynamic, faster and has become somewhat ruthless. The players are more athletic and the material makes the game faster. I myself have become better. In fact, I had to become better because I had new opponents and new challenges. Tennis on this level doesn’t allow you stagnancy.

Cherry picking lines...still he never mentioned that he has became better than his peak years On tour in 2000s