Problem Laying Wrist Back on FH

[mrgonzo]

Hey guys, I have a problem on my forehand. After I fully turn my shoulders, I then slowly unturn to approach the ball and I let my wrist lay back (like most good forehands do). Although my buttcap faces forward and slightly to the right in the laid back wrist position (like Nadal, Federer, Gonzalez, etc. do), my racket face is NOT TILTED DOWNWARD ENOUGH and my racket face is not closed much at all. Instead, my racket face is HARDLY LOWER than my grip in this position. When I try to let my racket face dip below my grip more while letting my wrist lay back, I keep skimming the ball at contact and I can't get a solid hit. In other words, when I try letting my racket face drop more below my grip in this position, I don't have that feeling of solid contact and hitting through the ball. Do you guys have any tips how to let my racket face drop below my grip more while laying the wrist back, and still maintaining solid contact?

Thanks.

 

[Bud]

Hey guys, I have a problem on my forehand. After I fully turn my shoulders, I then slowly unturn to approach the ball and I let my wrist lay back (like most good forehands do). Although my buttcap faces forward and slightly to the right in the laid back wrist position (like Nadal, Federer, Gonzalez, etc. do), my racket face is NOT TILTED DOWNWARD ENOUGH and my racket face is not closed much at all. Instead, my racket face is HARDLY LOWER than my grip in this position. When I try to let my racket face dip below my grip more while letting my wrist lay back, I keep skimming the ball at contact and I can't get a solid hit. In other words, when I try letting my racket face drop more below my grip in this position, I don't have that feeling of solid contact and hitting through the ball. Do you guys have any tips how to let my racket face drop below my grip more while laying the wrist back, and still maintaining solid contact?

Thanks.

You're putting way too much thought into hitting a FH, IMO. The wrist will lay back automatically if you're arm and wrist are loose when you initiate the forward swing. Instead of practicing actually laying back your wrist (which stiffens the wrist), practice letting your arm and wrist relax. Take some video of yourself practicing with a loose wrist and arm and you'll notice on the forward swing that your wrist IS laid back as the frame comes forward to strike the ball.

 

[mrgonzo]

You're putting way too much thought into hitting a FH, IMO. The wrist will lay back automatically if you're arm and wrist are loose when you initiate the forward swing. Instead of practicing actually laying back your wrist (which stiffens the wrist), practice letting your arm and wrist relax. Take some video of yourself practicing with a loose wrist and arm and you'll notice on the forward swing that your wrist IS laid back as the frame comes forward to strike the ball.

Thanks Bud, I appreciate the advice! But my problem is not that I force my wrist to lay back and that it doesn't lay back enough. My wrist does lay back quite a bit but my racket is NOT BELOW MY GRIP ENOUGH in this position and MY PALM IS NOT FACING DOWN ENOUGH EITHER in this position. Hopefully this is more clear than my OP. Sorry for the confusion. It's a tough problem to explain.

 

[Clay lover]

Thanks Bud, I appreciate the advice! But my problem is not that I force my wrist to lay back and that it doesn't lay back enough. My wrist does lay back quite a bit but my racket is NOT BELOW MY GRIP ENOUGH in this position and MY PALM IS NOT FACING DOWN ENOUGH EITHER in this position. Hopefully this is more clear than my OP. Sorry for the confusion. It's a tough problem to explain.

Then maybe you can adjust your take back a bit so the strings point more to the ground?

When you take your racquet back, you don't just draw the racquet with the open face straight back, you drop the racquet head and let the strings face the ground so the racquet face can be more closed.

Fed takeback
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-xhs0hw6frjo/TZZTWsRnCkI/AAAAAAAAAS0/XBHWEo44V2w/s1600/ff8.jpg

Nadal takeback
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-01XfwZC8vVo/Tjf4RTGc8_I/AAAAAAAAAAY/wydsg21vRG0/s640/rafa3.jpg

Djoker takeback
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-PwyVVn4Rl6A/TdF8fDYoZwI/AAAAAAAAAbI/M6QNDbbIKwU/s1600/df4.jpg

 

[ho]

My wrist does lay back quite a bit but my racket is NOT BELOW MY GRIP ENOUGH in this position and MY PALM IS NOT FACING DOWN ENOUGH EITHER in this position. It's a

1. My wrist does lay back quite a bit but my racket is NOT BELOW MY GRIP ENOUGH in this position:
turn your forearm clockwise.
2. MY PALM IS NOT FACING DOWN ENOUGH EITHER in this position.
at the end of your take back your palm face up. however your racket face still face down (hold racket sw), ready for WW.

 

[mrgonzo]

Thanks for the tips, ClayLover and Ho. I will try these tips out when I hit tonight. Do you think I will still be able to hit THROUGH THE BALL well with f these tips? Because in my previous experience trying to get in the dipped-racket face position, it was hard for me to hit through the ball with my racket face dipped that low during that point in my swing. I felt like I had to swing straight up in order achieve that dipped-racket face position, which in turn made me skim the ball too much at contact.

 

[Clay lover]

Thanks for the tips, ClayLover and Ho. I will try these tips out when I hit tonight. Do you think I will still be able to hit THROUGH THE BALL well with f these tips? Because in my previous experience trying to get in the dipped-racket face position, it was hard for me to hit through the ball with my racket face dipped that low during that point in my swing. I felt like I had to swing straight up in order achieve that dipped-racket face position, which in turn made me skim the ball too much at contact.

Swing up AND through the ball. That is generally the way to go.

 

[mrgonzo]

Swing up AND through the ball. That is generally the way to go.

Ok thanks, I'll try that out and hope it works. I'll keep you posted. I think another way of explaining my problem of "skimming the ball" when I try to dip my racket face more is: turning my hand over too early. For some reason when I tried to dip my racket face during the laid-wrist position, I had a tendency to turn my hand over sometimes even DURING CONTACT as opposed to SIGNIFICANTLY AFTER CONTACT. I will try to swing up and through today and see if this cures the problem.

 

[dominikk1985]

If your wrist doesn't lay back you are not accelerting enough, it's that simple.

if you accelerate the arm hard the wrist will lay back even if it is not very relaxed because there is a ton of innertia.

 

[Clay lover]

If your wrist doesn't lay back you are not accelerting enough, it's that simple.

if you accelerate the arm hard the wrist will lay back even if it is not very relaxed because there is a ton of innertia.

Well but I think it doesn't hurt to swing slower and get the basic form down first if you're still developing the stroke. But yeah, as you said, less acceleration=wrist less laid back.

 

[dominikk1985]

Well but I think it doesn't hurt to swing slower and get the basic form down first if you're still developing the stroke. But yeah, as you said, less acceleration=wrist less laid back.

yes. relax the wrist and you will have some lag in the racket. but it's important that you don't actively open the wrist. the wrist lagging is a function of acceleration that means you should have less lag in a slower swing (but still some lag of course).

if you open the wrist more than your swingspeed dictates you are disrupting the timing (kinematic chain).

here is a good golf vid. about that (forced lag vs natural lag)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJQVNqyTURM

 

[Clay lover]

When people first start out, however, it is obvious that they will tend to concentrate on the arm rather than the body, it takes time to move on from that.

Also, I think whether the wrist is laid back enough is certainly affected by the takeback. If you take the racquet back with the strings facing the front or towards the sky, chances are your wrist is not laid back, or even if it is you're not gonna hit the ball properly. That's why the pat-the-dog position is advocated by a lot of coaches.

 

[dominikk1985]

When people first start out, however, it is obvious that they will tend to concentrate on the arm rather than the body, it takes time to move on from that.

Also, I think whether the wrist is laid back enough is certainly affected by the takeback. If you take the racquet back with the strings facing the front or towards the sky, chances are your wrist is not laid back, or even if it is you're not gonna hit the ball properly. That's why the pat-the-dog position is advocated by a lot of coaches.

Isn't the wrist neutral in the take back and lays back when the arm goes forward (similar to a car driver that is pressed in the seat by the acceleration)? In that way you have a dynamic stretching of the wrist. I don't think that there is anything you can do to keep the wrist from opening (no matter where the racket face points) if you accelerate the arm unless you really cramp on the grip.

 

[Clay lover]

Isn't the wrist neutral in the take back and lays back when the arm goes forward (similar to a car driver that is pressed in the seat by the acceleration)? In that way you have a dynamic stretching of the wrist. I don't think that there is anything you can do to keep the wrist from opening (no matter where the racket face points) if you accelerate the arm unless you really cramp on the grip.

Believe me, all kinds of weird things can happen to an amatuer player's arm when they take the racquet back, not to say that you're wrong though. There just are people who can somehow mess up even the things you think are straight forward. A lot of players treat the arm and the hand as one plane and just take back and arm the ball as hard as they could.

 

[West Coast Ace]

(Haven't read all the answers so apologies if this was already offered up):

OP, instead of worrying about your wrist ****, maybe you should think about the angle of your shoulders, specifically getting your right shoulder (if you're a righty) 'under' the ball - aka lower. I'm actually doing this for my 1HBH - watched Kohlschreiber's match with Roddick and saw how he gets his left shoulder down which gets him a better launch angle.

And what is your overall goal? More spin? More depth? More power?

 

[Clay lover]

(Haven't read all the answers so apologies if this was already offered up):

OP, instead of worrying about your wrist ****, maybe you should think about the angle of your shoulders, specifically getting your right shoulder (if you're a righty) 'under' the ball - aka lower. I'm actually doing this for my 1HBH - watched Kohlschreiber's match with Roddick and saw how he gets his left shoulder down which gets him a better launch angle.

And what is your overall goal? More spin? More depth? More power?

Dude, followed your advice about getting the back shoulder lower, it really helps! It allows me to more effectively transfer power from the ground.

 

[jb193]

Well, I had this problem for a while also. So, as to add to your advice, which may or may not be applicable to your situation, I would advise you to control your elbow... Just play around with in front of a mirror and you will see what I am saying. If you over use that elbow in your FH, and kind of push it in any way, it really drains all the kinetic flow of the FH and it warps the racquet face angle in the forward motion.. I see recreational players to this all the time.. The key is to just swing the elbow with the body and let the forearm whip around the upper arm. Hence, using your body like a "human racquet" like some posters mentioned some time back. But to even simplify it even more, just be sure not to overuse that elbow and slow it down in the forward motion to allow the racquet to whip around and naturally pop the ball with a square face.... Of course, the key to all this is to let your big muscles do all the work, like your legs and the torso to swing your arm...

One exercise I recommend is to take a child's racquet and practice stopping (or breaking) the elbow at the end of the forward progression and let the forearm whip around.. You ought to hear a sharp whipping sound from your arm.. The precursor to this motion seems to enable one to really lay the wrist back and let the strings face downward for some reason on the take back... There is some body mechanics that goes on that I don't understand, but that is the way it works for me... Anyway, hope this helps...

 

[TennisCJC]

Don't try to point the butt at the ball or drop the racket head. If you get a waist high rally ball to your right (forehand side), you will turn a bit to the right side and move to the ball. When you turn, position your forehand grip, keep the racket head up and between your shoulders, and close the racket face ever so slightly but this closing will happen naturally if you have a eastern or semi-western grip. From this position, find the bottom of the ball just below center and pull thru, up and across to finish you follow-thru. In reality, your hips, then shoulder, then arm rotate into the ball and your racket head make a looping back, down, up, thru and around your body motion. The position where the racket butt points at the ball/net is just a transition position in the loop and is no more important than any other position you pass thru along the loop. The loop is a kinetic chain and should begin slowing and accelerate through out the entire loop until it slows down when you wrap around your body. Relax you grip, keep racket head up and between shoulders, find the bottom of the ball with a continuously accelerating motion, on contact pull thru, up and across the ball. The racket head will drop below wrist on lower balls and may not drop as much on higher balls. Try to say the work "feel" as you make contact and finish the word "feel" as you finish the follow-thru. You are now hitting it like Fed. Good luck.

One other pointer, on really high ball - shoulder height or more - stay a little farther away from the ball as your arm has to extend a little more to get the racket up to contact. Most people crowd themselves on high balls.

When you turn to side and keep the racket in between your shoulders, some people lead back with the racket elbow. This puts the elbow up and back, hand in center, and frequently racket head is toward net in front of hand. From here, just loop to bottom of the ball.

 

[ext2hander]

Gonzo,
Check out Mauro Marcos video on the Modern Forehand. Pay close attention to the left-hand holding the racquet to turn the shoulders sideways, before right-hand goes back for continuous loop, while left-hand goes to point to ball contact point. Marcos emphasizes the continuous loop and drop back to help keep a stable wrist layback thru point of contact.

Check out how the pros do this at 7:00 into this excellent video. He calls the layback, "wrist cocked back". Perhaps, a little visualization will help. For my own forehand, using the left-hand to bring the racquet back (and turn the shoulders) has helped immensely what comes later, i.e. follow-thru contact point with wrist layback. The proper initial movements can help stabilize the wrist layback to avoid wristiness.

 

[West Coast Ace]

Dude, followed your advice about getting the back shoulder lower, it really helps! It allows me to more effectively transfer power from the ground.

You're welcome. Not that a grip change might not be in order, but getting the shoulder 'under' the ball is a lot easier to implement. Grip changes can take a lot to get used to.

 

[pushing_wins]

1. My wrist does lay back quite a bit but my racket is NOT BELOW MY GRIP ENOUGH in this position:
turn your forearm clockwise.
2. MY PALM IS NOT FACING DOWN ENOUGH EITHER in this position.
at the end of your take back your palm face up. however your racket face still face down (hold racket sw), ready for WW.

palm facing down at the end of takeback

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Much depends on your grip.
A Western grip will tend to "face downward" (horizontal) at your take back- not because that' is something
you think you should do, but simply because that is the natural result of having a rather "extreme"
grip.

With an Eastern grip the racket will be (more-or-less) vertical- just because that is what naturally happens
with that type of grip.

Do not try to overthink your stroke and break it up into so many increments that you must try to duplicate
just because someone says you should.

1, Choose a grip that is comfortable and natural for you- that "feels right" - at least at first- you can
experiment with other grips later.

2. With no ball (maybe in front of a mirror or sliding glass door), practice your stroke. You will discover a certain point
in relation to your body and height above the court where the forward (pulling/dragging) motion begins to transition into a forward, striking, whipping,
position. Remember that spot. Strive to position yourself to the ball in this same way every time to achieve maximum effect and reliability.
At the point of impact your racket should be almost perpendicular to the court surface, possibly a tiny bit "closed" (top
edge tilted very slightly forward).

3. Imagine how high above the net you want the ball to clear. Depending on your style, your grip, your stroke- this can be anywhere
from a few inches to 4 or 5 feet.

4. In the old days we were told to drive through the ball in such a way that the racket head followed through with the ball for several inches
Now days we tend to strike the ball with more of a whipping/slapping motion and there is less margin for error (mistiming).

5. Whichever style you choose, you should imaging that you are driving through the ball- sending it upward toward the height over the net
that you want and toward a specific placement, With a Western grip you might aim several feet over the net and spin will bring it down. With an
Eastern, having much less spin,- maybe just one foot.

6. Whatever style you choose, you should strive for overall smoothness- a stroke that can be thought of as a continuous,
fluid motion rather than a bunch of memorized steps.

Good luck.

 

[johnmccabe]

Shocked this is not unearthed by user92626

 

[andrehanderson]

I have the same issue

 

[user92626]

Shocked this is not unearthed by user92626

I have only done this a dozen times this week. Don't make me look bad, mister.

For once i don't have this indescribable problem. My wrist is good.

 

[user92626]

Much depends on your grip.
A Western grip will tend to "face downward" (horizontal) at your take back- not because that' is something
you think you should do, but simply because that is the natural result of having a rather "extreme"
grip.

With an Eastern grip the racket will be (more-or-less) vertical- just because that is what naturally happens
with that type of grip.

Do not try to overthink your stroke and break it up into so many increments that you must try to duplicate
just because someone says you should.

1, Choose a grip that is comfortable and natural for you- that "feels right" - at least at first- you can
experiment with other grips later.

2. With no ball (maybe in front of a mirror or sliding glass door), practice your stroke. You will discover a certain point
in relation to your body and height above the court where the forward (pulling/dragging) motion begins to transition into a forward, striking, whipping,
position. Remember that spot. Strive to position yourself to the ball in this same way every time to achieve maximum effect and reliability.
At the point of impact your racket should be almost perpendicular to the court surface, possibly a tiny bit "closed" (top
edge tilted very slightly forward).

3. Imagine how high above the net you want the ball to clear. Depending on your style, your grip, your stroke- this can be anywhere
from a few inches to 4 or 5 feet.

4. In the old days we were told to drive through the ball in such a way that the racket head followed through with the ball for several inches
Now days we tend to strike the ball with more of a whipping/slapping motion and there is less margin for error (mistiming).

5. Whichever style you choose, you should imaging that you are driving through the ball- sending it upward toward the height over the net
that you want and toward a specific placement, With a Western grip you might aim several feet over the net and spin will bring it down. With an
Eastern, having much less spin,- maybe just one foot.

6. Whatever style you choose, you should strive for overall smoothness- a stroke that can be thought of as a continuous,
fluid motion rather than a bunch of memorized steps.

Good luck.

Dude, I resurrect ancient threads so I can ask existing, living folks for tips on similar issues.

You dug up old threads to answer who knows if theyve survived covid or still with rec tennis. Interesting.

 

[Bagumbawalla]

Dude, I resurrect ancient threads so I can ask existing, living folks for tips on similar issues.

You dug up old threads to answer who knows if theyve survived covid or still with rec tennis. Interesting.

What???

 

[user92626]

What???

Nvrm