Proper Etiquette on returning OUT serves?

JackB1

JackB1

G.O.A.T.
This one seems to differ depending on who you ask.....

What I am talking about here are guys that will hit EVERY out serve back and take a full swing at the ball. I was told by several coaches that hitting an OUT serve is considered rude and bad tennis manners. I understand on close ones, you sometimes cannot hold up at the last second and not hit, but those serves that are clearly out...should they just be let go?

Personally, I don't mind when guys swing at obviously OUT serves, but what does bother me is when they hit the ball and cause the server a long delay because their struck ball is bouncing around the court or comes rolling back of the fence and now you have to go retrieve it for them. I feel like in this instance they should give you 1st serve again. If I cause that I always do, but I notice most guys won't, regardless of the long delay they might cause you.

Also, this seems to occur much more often in doubles than singles for some reason.
 
I'm probably more guilty of this than most people at my club. In my defense, my return contact point is usually 2ft inside the baseline, so my reaction time is reduced, and many of my opponents have big serves.

Now, if its 5 ft out, then no, I don't swing at it. But anything within 1-2ft long I'm usually hitting it. Wide serves aren't usually an issue because if its more than 1ft wide, I'm likely not getting to it.

Likewise, I have absolutely no issue w/ my opponents returning my out serves. Delays like that don't really bother me as its not really gamesmanship IMO (unless, in doubles, they nail my partner).
 
But, to your original question, I believe it is considered 'bad form', and I'm fairly certain it is addressed in 'The Code'.
 
Here you go:
The Code said:
28. Obvious faults. A player shall not put into play or hit over the net an obvious fault. To do so constitutes rudeness and may even be a form of gamesmanship. On the other hand, if a player does not call a serve a fault and gives the opponent the benefit of a close call, the server is not entitled to replay the point.
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But it then comes down to your interpretation of 'obvious fault'.
 
this isnt returning but i was playing a match and i was running at full sprint to hit a forehand and the ball landed about 4 inches long and i hit it and called it out.

the official told me i wasnt allowed to hit the ball if i was going to call the ball out...but i think she was wrong, im sure we get a shot

as far as returns, usucally the serve comes pretty fast, to keep my returns sharp i always hit it back, because you never know when the ball will dip in at the last moment:p
 
If serve is moderately fast and close, I take normal swing as there isn't time to change swing. If it is clearly out and/or slower, I will let it go, catch it on my strings or tap it into net. I have a friend that gets upset when people return his out serves. Frequently, the serve is within a foot of the service box and reasonably fast and he still gets angry if you return it. I ignore him and swing through if it is close. I am not "practicing" or delaying the game intentionally. I just don't have time to alter the swing once committed.
 
I try not to, but if the serve is close, it's unavoidable. If it's a real close call, I'll have to play a normal return. If it's somewhat close and I can modify my swing mid-swing, I'll try to just block it back into the bottom of the net or something instead of taking a full swing. If it's way out and I have time to stop my swing altogether, I will. I think that's in compliance with The Code.
 
#1 Stop ball and and put in pocket.

#2 Hit ball close to net, but not touching net.

#3 Let it roll behind you to fence but observe where it is so you don't step on it. If it's a windy day it could roll back to bite you.

#4 If you hit it back to your opponent's side, and the ball ricochets around causing your opponent to delay his service rhythm, offer him two.

#5 There are no mulligans in tennis (practice shots), doing so brands you as rude and selfish, it will not make you any friends amongst real players.
 
J_R_B said:
I try not to, but if the serve is close, it's unavoidable. If it's a real close call, I'll have to play a normal return. If it's somewhat close and I can modify my swing mid-swing, I'll try to just block it back into the bottom of the net or something instead of taking a full swing. If it's way out and I have time to stop my swing altogether, I will. I think that's in compliance with The Code.
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^^^^^

I think this is the way to go.

So what if you politely block an out serve and it rolls around and caused a delay.
Will you grant the server first serve?
 
tennis tom said:
#3 Let it roll behind you to fence but observe where it is so you don't step on it. If it's a windy day it could roll back to bite you.
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this one sometimes becomes gamesmanship, when the returner will step away to clear EVERY single ball away, including balls that obviously aren't in the way. This is done sometimes to force the server to wait some more before his 2nd serve.
 
JackB1 said:
So what if you politely block an out serve and it rolls around and caused a delay.
Will you grant the server first serve?
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As usual...it depends. If it is within the 'normal flow', meaning I blocked the return back, it hits the net, then rolls back to me and I immediately clear it, no.

But, if I hit the return, it goes over the net, hits the backstop/fence, then, as my opponent is preparing to hit his 2nd serve I see the ball is rolling back towards the baseline, I will hold up my hand, point to the ball, & say 'take 2'.

Regardless, if I return an obvious out serve and my opponent asks for a let, I will give it to them.
 
I know this bothers some severs. My take is I have no intention of teaching myself to dump returns into the net.
If it's way out and I have time, I will catch it or let it go (has to be a pretty weak serve). Otherwise, it's coming back. Deal with it :)
 
timing is the issue here
when im trying to be agressive with my return i can't change gears fast enough to stop myself
specially if its close; if you hesitate your going to miss the return
ill offer a let if i feel i caused a long delay; but i dont like the idea of letting it go behind me, ive stepped on a ball before and twisted my anckle (out for 1 month), not doing that again..
 
Totally depends on the serves pace and if it's close. I would never let this bother me though (being the server or the returner).
 
Anyone that is putting pace on a clear out ball is rude.

However, if it's close and I'm calling it out I will tap it back to the other court. That way I can take a second to make sure my call was correct and give the server a first serve if I erred without losing the point.

Any server that finds that rude is being ridiculous.
 
Startzel said:
That way I can take a second to make sure my call was correct and give the server a first serve if I erred without losing the point.
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Except that is against The Code. By the rules, you lose the point:
The Code said:
12. Out calls reversed. A player who calls a ball out shall reverse the call if the player becomes uncertain or realizes that the ball was good. The point goes to the opponent and is not replayed. However, when a receiver reverses a fault call on a serve that hit the net, the server is entitled to two serves.
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McLovin said:
Here you go:

But it then comes down to your interpretation of 'obvious fault'.
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The rule should be changed to serves that are more than 1 racket length out. Put some objectivity into the rule. One guy can lay his racket down and the other guy can argue. Kind of like arguing out marks on clay.
 
You have 2 valid sides, is the server truly being hindered or is the incoming serve close enough if you don't hit it you might get aced or mishit for waiting on the return. I will return the ball if its close or enough pace i cant tell until it hits. I've seen to many close serves i didn't hit fall in to now hit them if they are close.
I think in general the server needed to take a chill pill if hes that type to rapid fire 1st and 2nd serve,he is the one who doesn't want to allow the returner time to remove a ball off the court area and is trying to fire a 2nd serve before you get into position. (Note...Im not talking like the pros where you need to dry or towel off after every single shot. We are talking a few seconds to clear a ball.)BUT.....This drives me crazy as I am solid returner, i don't want to trip or ball over a ball on my side of the court so i will blast out returns at the server, or on to their side of the court if they not giving me time to get ready. I see this more in tournament play vs league and in singles. Most league matches are more low key.
 
Returning obviously out serves marks you as a real jerk. And unless you are playing 5.0 and above, it's not coming so fast that you can't tell until you swing. I mean, the ball has to bounce and you aren't half volleying it, so you have plenty of time. Once in a while there will be a real close one you might hit back, but it should be the rare exception. And please, no one tell me I haven't faced the fierce 4.5 serves you encounter. I have played plenty of games with a Tour pro and I could tell if they were in or out before I had to trigger my return.

In doubles, you are kind of limited by your partner. If he is slow to call them, you really don't have any choice but to hit them, but then he is the rude one. If you're firing returns at me at the net full blast on out balls, we will have a problem.

The guys I really despise are the ones who hit everything back without calling it. Maybe they call "out" after you start running for their return. And you know if they nail a winner, they will claim they saw the serve as good ,even if it's two feet long. The Code says this is illegal, but it's only possible if they are returning out serves to begin with.
 
beernutz said:
Nope, that reply in Improve Your Game was written BEFORE the Code #12 was last changed. The answer you cited no longer applies; the text that McLovin quoted is the current rule and applies to any reversed out call including out serves.
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That's a shame to see a rule change that discourages fair play.

I guess there is no reason to touch an out call now.
 
Startzel said:
That's a shame to see a rule change that discourages fair play.

I guess there is no reason to touch an out call now.
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I have no problem reversing an out call and losing the point. I have done it plenty of times in league matches including on serves. According to the Code that is the fair play so that's what I do.
 
beernutz said:
I have no problem reversing an out call and losing the point. I have done it plenty of times in league matches including on serves. According to the Code that is the fair play so that's what I do.
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You sir are a good sport. Unfortunately, not everyone is that way.
 
Startzel said:
That's a shame to see a rule change that discourages fair play.

I guess there is no reason to touch an out call now.
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I don't see it that way at all. The old rule encouraged people to call close balls out only to reverse that call for the sole purpose of getting another shot at returning the serve. The current rule prevents that.
 
MisterP said:
I don't see it that way at all. The old rule encouraged people to call close balls out only to reverse that call for the sole purpose of getting another shot at returning the serve. The current rule prevents that.
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It prevents that by encouraging the player to call it out and take the point. The latter is definitely the worse option.
 
JackB1 said:
^^^^^

I think this is the way to go.

So what if you politely block an out serve and it rolls around and caused a delay.
Will you grant the server first serve?
Click to expand...

Depends on the situation (i.e. how much rolling around and how much delay), but I have, yes.
 
JackB1 said:
This one seems to differ depending on who you ask.....

What I am talking about here are guys that will hit EVERY out serve back and take a full swing at the ball. I was told by several coaches that hitting an OUT serve is considered rude and bad tennis manners. I understand on close ones, you sometimes cannot hold up at the last second and not hit, but those serves that are clearly out...should they just be let go?

Personally, I don't mind when guys swing at obviously OUT serves, but what does bother me is when they hit the ball and cause the server a long delay because their struck ball is bouncing around the court or comes rolling back of the fence and now you have to go retrieve it for them. I feel like in this instance they should give you 1st serve again. If I cause that I always do, but I notice most guys won't, regardless of the long delay they might cause you.

Also, this seems to occur much more often in doubles than singles for some reason.
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Laver returned EVERYTHING. End of story.
 
Startzel said:
It prevents that by encouraging the player to call it out and take the point. The latter is definitely the worse option.
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Not really. You're describing a player who is either a blatant cheater (calls close balls out everytime) or doesn't understand the rule. Either way, no rule will ever prevent such a person from cheating. The existing rule works much better for those who follow the rules and is much fairer (if I hit an ace down the T on the line, I should not have to hit another one just because your eyesight sucks).
 
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RetroSpin said:
The guys I really despise are the ones who hit everything back without calling it. Maybe they call "out" after you start running for their return. And you know if they nail a winner, they will claim they saw the serve as good ,even if it's two feet long. The Code says this is illegal, but it's only possible if they are returning out serves to begin with.
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Good grief do such cads ney bounders really exist?
Can't say I've let this bother me or noticed it as a precise in my matches, but if I notice and feel aggrieved, I will take a let, 1st serve and see how they smoke that:)
 
We've discussed this numerous times before. Generally, it is sort of rude, IMO, to hit out balls back over the net. Though, at times, I think it's understandable. For example, when the ball looks like it's going to be very close and is barely out. Also, I play a certain guy in doubles with a kicky, fairly hard, lefty serve and I really get in far and and move forward and try to take in early. Sometimes I really can't stop my momentum even if it's a couple of inches out.

All that said, while I'd prefer opponents not to hit clearly out serves back (even less so if they're being obnoxious and ripping the snot out it), I've played too much tennis with players who hit every out ball back, hit none back, and every percentage in between, that I can't say it bothers me that much. it's gonna happen at some point.
 
bluetrain4 said:
We've discussed this numerous times before. Generally, it is sort of rude, IMO, to hit out balls back over the net. Though, at times, I think it's understandable. For example, when the ball looks like it's going to be very close and is barely out. Also, I play a certain guy in doubles with a kicky, fairly hard, lefty serve and I really get in far and and move forward and try to take in early. Sometimes I really can't stop my momentum even if it's a couple of inches out.

All that said, while I'd prefer opponents not to hit clearly out serves back (even less so if they're being obnoxious and ripping the snot out it), I've played too much tennis with players who hit every out ball back, hit none back, and every percentage in between, that I can't say it bothers me that much. it's gonna happen at some point.
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I agree. You can't let it bother you because that's the reason some of them are doing it. If they are obnoxious about it, you can always repay them in kind as well.
 
MisterP said:
Not really. You're describing a player who is either a blatant cheater (calls close balls out everytime) or doesn't understand the rule. Either way, no rule will ever prevent such a person from cheating. The existing rule works much better for those who follow the rules and is much fairer (if I hit an ace down the T on the line, I should not have to hit another one just because your eyesight sucks).
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You described a blatant cheater.

"The old rule encouraged people to call close balls out only to reverse that call for the sole purpose of getting another shot at returning the serve."
 
Just treat others the way you like to be treated.

When I have a guy returning balls that are clearly three feet long, I wait for the chance to do the same to him. But I aim my return on his long ball into the side fence so it ricochets, and bounces around the court like a metal pinball. :evil:

Once it stops rolling and I have clearly made my point that I know how to interrupt his serve better than he can interrupt my serve, I kindly state "First serve. I interrupted your serve." Set the better example.

9 times out of 10 that stops my opponent from blasting long serves or at least I get two serves when the 10th guy keeps doing it.

Problem solved.
 
Only proper way to play this game is call every close call in and if you still make mistake that you call ball that landed in out, you should of course concede tohe point. This new code is MUCH better to enforce fair play.
 
Eh, I just don't bother swinging. Let the out serve go past me into the tarp and continue play.

-Fuji
 
Not much bothers me on the court ... until something bothers me then I get really perturbed. So when the returner returns an out ball, it irritates me, but I have rarely ever let it affect my play.

However .... I consider myself a big server and I have played servers who hit the ball much harder than I do. I have rarely ever faced someone that served so hard that I could not avoid taking full swings at obviously out balls. Against the best players I have played in singles I am able to almost always let out balls sail by. In doubles it is harder because you do not concentrate on calling lines.

It is in the code not to do it ... I know from experience that it can be avoided... even against hard servers. So why do it?

I feel like this is merely another sign that our society has developed an "as long as I get mine" mentality..... I want to return every ball, and I am going to do so ... no matter what the expectations of me are.
 
As it is often a split second decision, I think it is okay to swing away.

What is much worse IMHO, are people who call obviously in serves out.
 
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when playing a casual match i want to keep things moving.. i usually poof the ball back to the server so he has balls at the ready to continue his service game.. 3 balls are just barely enough to play properly.. no one has ever said a word to me..that i am being rude or a jerk.. i have pretty decent control and the ball is put shoulder high and almost instantly.. in a tournament i follow the norms of tourney play.. which quite frankly is often devoid of the joy of the game.
 
dizzlmcwizzl said:
Not much bothers me on the court ... until something bothers me then I get really perturbed. So when the returner returns an out ball, it irritates me, but I have rarely ever let it affect my play.

However .... I consider myself a big server and I have played servers who hit the ball much harder than I do. I have rarely ever faced someone that served so hard that I could not avoid taking full swings at obviously out balls. Against the best players I have played in singles I am able to almost always let out balls sail by. In doubles it is harder because you do not concentrate on calling lines.

It is in the code not to do it ... I know from experience that it can be avoided... even against hard servers. So why do it?

I feel like this is merely another sign that our society has developed an "as long as I get mine" mentality..... I want to return every ball, and I am going to do so ... no matter what the expectations of me are.
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Exactly. I am baffled by these people who can see that the ball landed out but can't avoid returning it. Maybe if you're returning from three feet inside the service line, you don't have an option, but there is plenty of time if you are at the baseline.

What I think has happened is people watch pro matches and they tend to return everything, no matter how far out it is. But they have to rely on linesmen, plus they have ball kids to chase the returns.
 
swizzy said:
when playing a casual match i want to keep things moving.. i usually poof the ball back to the server so he has balls at the ready to continue his service game.. 3 balls are just barely enough to play properly.. no one has ever said a word to me..that i am being rude or a jerk.. i have pretty decent control and the ball is put shoulder high and almost instantly.. in a tournament i follow the norms of tourney play.. which quite frankly is often devoid of the joy of the game.
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I don't have a problem with blocking an out ball back to the server in rec play. I do it at times if the serve is so slow I know I can put it right back to them. We are objecting to people in tournaments or league play who take full cuts at balls that are out.
 
what JRB said! :)


J_R_B said:
I try not to, but if the serve is close, it's unavoidable. If it's a real close call, I'll have to play a normal return. If it's somewhat close and I can modify my swing mid-swing, I'll try to just block it back into the bottom of the net or something instead of taking a full swing. If it's way out and I have time to stop my swing altogether, I will. I think that's in compliance with The Code.
Click to expand...
 
RetroSpin said:
Exactly. I am baffled by these people who can see that the ball landed out but can't avoid returning it. Maybe if you're returning from three feet inside the service line, you don't have an option, but there is plenty of time if you are at the baseline.
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It depends on the level you are playing. If I'm playing a 3.5 server in a round robin, of course I'll just let it go by, but against high level servers, you can not do what you are describing.
 
If it's out I generally don't try to stop my stroke unless it's way out. I usually hit it back, in court, right to the server.

It's because I've had times before where I called out and let it go or hit it into the net and been accused of "you only said out b/c you hit it into the net!" So now I put it back into play if it's close. I try to hit it right at someone though out of courtesy.
 
JackB1 said:
this one sometimes becomes gamesmanship, when the returner will step away to clear EVERY single ball away, including balls that obviously aren't in the way. This is done sometimes to force the server to wait some more before his 2nd serve.
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I had a guy do this in a league final. Was very annoying. I served him while he was back at the fence picking a ball up and a dispute ensued.

My view: don't pick up the ball unless it will impede play. If you're going to waste time and try to break rhythm, prepare to be called out.
 
beltsman said:
I had a guy do this in a league final. Was very annoying. I served him while he was back at the fence picking a ball up and a dispute ensued.

My view: don't pick up the ball unless it will impede play. If you're going to waste time and try to break rhythm, prepare to be called out.
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On the flip side, some people are more worried about having balls anywhere close to them. Other players can play a match with 10 balls scattered on their side. Everyone is different. Now if the ball is 6 inches away from the back fence and they clear it, then that is gamesmanship.
 
mikeler said:
On the flip side, some people are more worried about having balls anywhere close to them. Other players can play a match with 10 balls scattered on their side. Everyone is different. Now if the ball is 6 inches away from the back fence and they clear it, then that is gamesmanship.
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If you serve a ball into the net, or if the ball is anywhere within 5 feet of the court I'm going to force you to pick it up, because it is a distraction. If you don't, I'll wait until you are about to hit a winner, and then call a let. That usually gets the idea across to the opponent and is well within the rules. Usually the ones who don't pick up the balls are the ones who are such a nervous wreck trying to hit a 2nd serve that they don't want to move and reset.
 
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