Discussion in 'Strings' started by gangster33, Feb 13, 2009.
what are the pros/cons of kevlar strings itself and hybriding it with poly/synthetic gut.
Kevlar can only be used with synthetic gut, unless you enjoy killing your arm.
It MUST MUST MUST be tensioned below 50 lbs. This hybrid is extremely stiff, I don't even use a damp on my racquet right now. Currently its strung at 48, and even that is still stiff.
Pro's? Spin and control. The spin is better than most poly's will give you, and its low-powered so you get extra control.
kevlar is neither good for you arm or your frame
The spin and dwell time is amazing with full bed kevlar@40 pounds. Also there is no shock at all to your arm. Very dampened feel.
Everyone needs to try it at least once. The feel is completely different than any other string setup out there.
Kevlar isn't as bad as that.
It is a very stiff string no doubt but it isn't as bad as some have said it to be. To counter it's stiffness, it should not be put into a light stiff frame, it works very well in heavier n softer frames.
Kevlar has excellent durabilty, great spin, very good control n very low power (that's a pro for me)
On the other hand it can very bad on your arm if not used properly, pretty dead in feel, kills almost everything else if used in a cross.
Generally a lot of pp use it in very low tensions but I think that removes some of the benefits of kevlar. I tried a vantage frame 95 63ra strung in Kevlar (Aramid gear) main 55 / Forten syn gut 57. It's not as bad as some other have said bout the string. Sure it's something to watch for but it's not a death sentence.
It can be used with a multi cross but if combined with a poly or a full setup, caution must be exercised.
I will never use it in a light, stiff frame only with soft heavy frames.
The only pro for kevlar or aramid is tension maintenance and this is comparing it against the main alternative, poly.
The rest are all cons when compared to poly strings ...
Poly's have better playability, are less damaging to the arm. Both have great durability and are difficult to string since stiff and hard on the fingers. I dont know why anybody would still consider using kevlar when there are soo many good poly choices ? Most pros have even gone to poly or poly/gut.
I disagree, poly has it's place and so does Kevlar. You are not going to get another string with the kind of spin n control as kevlar. If you really don't need any sort of power, kevlar is a worth considering if you can stand the stiffness.
Poly goes dead much faster than kevlar by a long shot.
when i used it i strung them at 62 pounds
I agree... but even at super low tension... it still hurts the arm.
I don't think the material is very good at dampening natural vibrations.
The thing about Kevlar it that it doesn't stretch like most strings. So it might crack or break your frame or it make compress your frame. So you might want to think again about using it on old frames or beat up frames.
The good thing about Kevlar would have to be the spin quality and control that you get but there are some blends of Kevlar that have a nice feel to it or give it a little more pop.
My bad i didn't really review my post so there are mistakes here and there.
I use Ashaway Crossfire, 17 w/60lbs on main, 16 w/65lbs on cross, it's fine so far...
Pros: Durable, relatively cheap
Cons: It will really do some damage to your arm.
"Splurge" a bit and buy they more expensive string...strings like Enduro Pro are very durable and still pretty cheap.
I did the same thing.
1. It certainly wasnt stiff like many said.
2. The mains were fraying like a speeding car. The good side to this is that the 1 millimeter of string left withstood about 2 more weeks.
3. I felt a significant drop in tension once the mains began fraying, I wish I couldve taken pics, but you could see 4 thin strings where the kevlar used to be.
4. If the durability of kevlar really is like this, I'd rather go with polyester. I had Pro Red Code on the Crosses and they werent close to popping yet.
Do anyone of you have any evidence to back this up???
For starters, for the poster that says you can't go high on tension, especially with older frames, because the frame will break>>> I use to string a ps85 near 70 lbs.
Secondly, I have never, nor have I ever seen any evidence to back up the claim that kevlar results in arm problems.
Arm injuries, by and large are related to bad technique.
I agree 100%.
I still play with Kevlar, I started using Kevlar after a severe case of Tennis Elbow (yes you guys got right) and I have no pain at all.
Polys cause more disconfort in my opinion thatn Kevlar
I played with kevlar for a long time. In fact I didn't even know what kevlar was really, I just used it because it was available to me and it didn't break easily. Which meant spending less time using the stringing machine with this creepy guy hanging around but that is another story. I never had arm problems with it. The brand I used was Forten. I combined it with wilson or prince synthetic gut.
I seriously think some posters write about things they have no experience with.
Kevlar, for those who enjoy the feel provided is a great string.
It offers absolutely amazing control, very good spin, and is extremely durable. Additionally, once it breaks in, the comfort is very good, because it absorbs so much of the ball impact, resulting in less stress/vibration to the arm. (this is contrary to what posters here are saying).
The main advantage to Kevlar is durability. I was trying to cut some string out of a racket and the shears were twisting rather than cutting through the stuff: Kevlar!
Agassi used to play with Kevlar, but once he tried Luxilon, he quit playing kevlar and switched over because the poly gave him more spin.
I used Pro Blend (Kevlar/PSGD) for a while before I bought my stringer. Then I started using just PSGD which I liked better than Pro Blend, but the durability is poor. Now I'm into polys using a Big Ace/PSGD hybrid which I like better than the PSGD and the durability is much better.
If durability is your only concern, I'd try out Big Ace before Kevlar and see how long it lasts you. I'm a string breaker and PSGD by itself used to last only a few sets for me. So far the Big Ace has not even showed any signs of notching after 4 matches. The PSGD looks like it could go anytime though . Also, you can use string savers to extend the life of your strings if durability is an issue.
I should add I was using a wilson pro staff back then. Maybe racquets are made more cheaply now and that is the cause of arm drama? I know that there is a brand of shoes I used to buy that were made in europe, they lasted forever and never caused foot pain. Now they are made elsewhere and cheaply made (though still cost the same) and do not seem as stable either.
I used Ashway Crossfire 17 at 45/47lbs for a couple of months and never had any arm problems what so ever.
At this low tension (actually a high tension by some people's standards) I had great control and decent power. Spin was ridiculous. The only reason I switched over to X1 was for the added power/pop. With my new racquet the Head MGPP, I'm seriously thinking about trying it again. I think it would blend well with the flexy feel of the MGPP.
Forten Thin Blend 50/55 and feel great, IMO better than poly hybrid.
I don't know. It feels like there is very little vibration. That's one of the reasons I like it so much. I may be strange but a multi strung at 60lbs hurts my arm a lot more than kevlar at 40lbs.
BTW.. Agassi also blew out his wrist using Kelvar. Just the facts.
No he didn't. He was using it even **after** his wrist surgery. Wasn't until his last few years on tour that he switched to the luxilon.
The obvious cons are stiffness (which could lead to injury) and lack of "feel".
I played with a kevlar/syn gut hybrid for about two years and never had a problem with injuries. But, I did get injured using poly and had to take 6 weeks off. Though it was the particular poly (Luxilon BB), not poly in general. I switched to a different poly and everything was fine.
'Kevlar wrist' a la Agassi...now supplanted by 'Poly Wrist'. As others have said, Kevlar can be very harmful to your health.
Dont think anyone mentioned that kevlar changes the swingweight and balance of a racquet even more than poly. unless someone wants to add more swingweight to their racquet and make their racquet swing more head heavy that could be a con as well.
Only tennis injury (arm, wrist, shoulder, etc) for me. Kevlar. Once I had my own stringer, never used it again. I am sure many have used it without injury..for me not on my list for safe and long-term arm health. Of course that is just me.
To each his own...heck there are players here using ALU Power at 70#s on a 14 oz K90 without injury.
I tried it and liked it, but the strings shredded the crap out of each other unbelievably quickly, because they move so much at that tension. A Kevlar/syn gut hybrid lasted me months...full kevlar at low tension is shredded after 3 sessions!!
I have used Kev ever since I broke my first set of strings, and I string I up at about 65-67.
I have never had a frame break from it or major arm problems. I have used the blades (N and K) ever since they come out.
Kev is not as bad as all you make it out to be.
All I can say is get you some six-sided Kev, best string out there.
Guys talking about how stiff it is obviously just strung their racquets up at the same tension they normally did with synthetic gut when they tried kevlar.
OF course Kevlar at 60lbs will feel incredibly stiff, since it has no elasticity and synth gut has a lot.
i've been using kevlar hybrids(mostly ash 1.10) for about 20 years
have been lucky with injuries, the only really bad case of TE i got was using full poly
besides the obvious(durability, low power, spin, ability to have a 1.10 string last etc), kevlar plays great right off the stringer, you dont need to string it high like poly, and break it in to get it to a tension you really want to play with
kevlar does lose tension pretty badly, but it doesnt lose as much playability as poly when it does(imho)
one thing i dont like about kevlar is it just totally thrashes your grommets
it will actually saw through them pretty fast, and i have to replace them a lot more frequently then i do with any other type of string...
I totally agree bout the fact that different pp have differing experiences with Kevlar n other strings.
I've had some te issues when I first started out using poly hybrids but I've been very happy using a Kevlar Hybrid in 55/57 for bout 10 hrs with little or no worsening of my te.
I can't say that what caused the te in the first place but I strongly believe that poor technique n using a frame that wasn't suitable for me was the main cause.
Kevlar is a stiff string no doubt but I think that there are a lot of other factors to consider before labeling a string as dangerous.
I never put that together. I used to wonder why I had such a problem with that.
Is it recommended to wait 24 hours after the string job with Kevlar as it is with other strings?
Anyone here know the longevity of Forten 18 Aramid? I've been playing with if for bout 10 hrs already n there is slight notching from the Forten sweet 17 but nothing significant. I'm more concerned bout it going dead?
I heard from my stringer that shock absorption is nil when the string goes dead so roughly how long can I play this string before it dies?
imo kevlar is grade A string, especially the Syn. Gut hybrid pack by Ashway, that stuff is awesome, but get the 18g sets, u will get so much bit and spin from the ball its wicked
i used it for about 5 hours and got heavy nothing on the mains. i'd imagine i'll break it within the next 2 or 3 sessions. but i cut them at that point to test other strings. as far as feel, it still feels good only a little bit more muted and the strings will start moving around so much more. i strung it at 54/59. if i get another chance to use it, i'll string it lower around 50/55 or 52/57 tho.
So basically the strings will start to move about a lot more but it doesn't go dead like poly n get really harsh?
It's interesting, I used to use Problend in my 200G and I never felt that it was harsh or overly stiff. I strung the kevlar mains @55, and the SynGut crosses @60. I was using this setup with no arm problems whatsoever for a few years. I will admit I was a younger, in my mid/late 20's.
I am now in late 30's and have been using poly for not quite a year. I find it to be much more harsh, though I like BA, then I remember the Problend being. I recently changed racquets, and the demo from TW I am pretty sure had Problend in it. Again, I didn't find it harsh at all, I liked it a lot actually...though the mains were very loose and moved around a lot.
So, I find myself considering kevlar mains in my new Aerostorm. Has anyone tired this string/racquet combination?
I have kevlar (Ashaway CrossFire II 18g)in my Head MG Extreme Pro strung @ 47# M and 52# C. The mains do move quite a bit but no arm shock and good control and power. I think next I will try kevlar/Pearl Zone hybrid, since Pearl Zone seems very smoothe and may solve my string movement issue.
I love my Ashaway Kevlar 18g (48# M) and any synthetic gut 17g (50# X) hybrid. But I have recently run out of my kevlar reel (don't know what to do with the remaining 15 feet, sight.) I now have a bunch of 1.10 - 1.20 mm co-poly that are soft. Can anyone suggest how I might hybrid these with synthetic gut or something to get a similar feel to that of the kevlar hybrid?
BTW, the kevlar/S.G. combo plays like a dream (if you like control, spin, drop shot, and that dead feel) and doesn't hurt my elbow at all. The co-poly I have seems to be too lively for me to like so far.
i've been using very thin kevlar (1.10) for the past several months and i can confirm
it's much more comfortable than polys...
I highly recommend that you try this setup:
Ashaway Kevlar 18g Mains @ 45#
1.10mm co-poly Crosses @ 48#
...and come back and tell me how it compares to your Kevlar/syngut setup.
Had to try it for myself
Well after all the back and forth about kevlar, I decided that I would try it for myself to see what I thought. I usually string synthetic gut at 57-59lbs.
I strung up one of my MG Radicals with "FXP Blend" which is a Head hybrid of 17G kevlar and a 17G multi called FXP Power. Strung the kevlar in the mains at 55 and the FXPP in the crosses at 57. I have used FXPP as a cross with synthetic gut in the past and stopped because the crosses would break, so I don't know how durable this will be.
But hitting with it for the first time this weekend, it has great feel and a nice crisp string bed. I felt like I could hit a better backhand slice with the bite of kevlar and I could really take big cuts on the groundstrokes without them sailing long. I also have to admit that I really like the pop sound you get when you really go after a ground stroke.
From a comfort standpoint, I hit with it for about 2 1/2 hours of steady practice and I didn't have any arm, elbow, wrist, or shoulder aches or pain. So far, so good. The real test will be when I hit with it again tonight and on Friday to see if the constant pounding causes any discomfort.
Also, while ground strokes, top spin, and slice shots were great, I noticed a drop off in the power of my serve and I had a little more trouble getting depth and pace on my volleys. All in all, I am pleased with the combo. This is definately a combo that would be helpful in singles, but I am still up in the air about how it would benefit me in doubles. Time will tell.
I find it tremendous for volleying, I think the stringbed is more predictable when volleying with a Kevlar blend than it is with a full poly bed.
Let me know your thoughts.
Sorry I didn't see your post until just now. I'm curious now. How does it suppose to be different? I do have a ton a 1.10 co-poly that I don't like as main. If they work well as crosses I'd be very happy, indeed.
I only have a limited experience with Kevlar but have tried it at lower as well as higher tensions. I have only used it in the mains with Syn. gut crosses. I found it to play best for me at about 60lbs. on the Kevlar mains. Low tension as it usually is for me was very mushy feeling. (Yes I said Mushy about Kevlar). I don't find it to be stiff at all. I have not had any arm problems from it and think that is somewhat of a falacy about stiff strings.
What I liked was the spin and action I could get as well as the muted feeling. I find that Poly is pretty equal here for me. What I didn't like was that it moved all over the place no matter the tension. I simply can't stand a string that moves around so it is not a string that I would ever use on a regular basis because of this and this alone.
I use Forten, Kevlar 16 on the mains and Gosen, Polylon 17 on the crosses at 62 lbs. I like the control, low power, spin, durability and the dampened feel.
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