Pro's Pro Strings!?

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
I'd appreciate it if anyone can share additional experience regarding poly prestretching.
Hi @tennisitis, IMO pre-stretching Black Out 1.24 destroys the redeeming features of the string. Last thing I want to do is to remove the elasticity and in my experience that is exactly what pre-stretching any typical poly string does just that. It changes the nature of the string usually for the worse.

Give it a try, but if you are getting a stringing machine I think you will find that nothing beats a fresh bed of Black Out. Whether you are prepared to re-string every 4 or so hours of use is up to you. If you like the combo, perhaps purchase another racquet so that you can reduce your re-string frequency.
 

tennisitis

New User
Hi @tennisitis, IMO pre-stretching Black Out 1.24 destroys the redeeming features of the string. Last thing I want to do is to remove the elasticity and in my experience that is exactly what pre-stretching any typical poly string does just that. It changes the nature of the string usually for the worse.

Give it a try, but if you are getting a stringing machine I think you will find that nothing beats a fresh bed of Black Out. Whether you are prepared to re-string every 4 or so hours of use is up to you. If you like the combo, perhaps purchase another racquet so that you can reduce your re-string frequency.
Thanks for the input KT! I'll definitely keep it in mind. I'm really looking forward to trying out a fresh bed of BO and experimenting further.
 

chrisb

Semi-Pro
Hi mr Tecnifibre rep!

Please see those posts before you start talking BS!

This is from the german saitenforum;

Chemischer Vergleich der Tecnifibre Black Code mit der Pro's Pro Blackout
Veröffentlicht: 21.10.2009 um 18:19 von Spin_Fan
Stichworte
Hallo an alle

Hier die sehnlich erwarteten Ergebnisse der Untersuchungen an den beiden Saiten.

Hier die Black Code und die Blackout

Black Code:




Blackout:



----------------------------------------------
Hier habe ich die Saiten jetzt vermessen. Die Durchmesser sind identisch. Die Unterschiedlichen Zahlen traten aufgrund von Ungenauigkeiten beim Einbetten auf, da die Saite nicht 100%-ig vertikal eingebettet wurde.

Black Code:




Blackout:




Fazit der Mikroskopie:
Die Saiten sind farblich und von den Abmessungen her identisch. Auch in der Struktur sind keine Unterschiede festzustellen.

----------------------------------------------

Infrarotspektrokopie:
Mit der Methode der Infrarotspektroskopie und deren Möglichkeiten konnte festgestellt werden, dass es sich um den gleichen Polyester handelt.

Fazit:

Chemische und optisch gesehen sind die beiden Saiten sich extrem ähnlich.
Ob die Spieleigenschaften, die Spannungsstabilität und die Reißfestigkeit übereinstimmen, muss man mit anderen Tests auch noch ermitteln, um sicher sagen zu können, dass es sich um die gleiche Saite handelt. Ich denke dabei an eine Reißtest im Labor, bei dem die aufgewendete Kraft im Augenblick des Reißens ermittelt werden kann.

Auch wenn nicht zu 100% bewiesen ist, dass die Blackout die selbe Saite ist, so ist sie auf jedenfall eine sehr gute Kopie.

Ich empfehle jedem, der überlegt, ob er sich die Saite holen soll, 2 Schläger mit dem gleichen Setup mit den beiden Saiten zu bespannen und sie dann im Praxistest noch einmal zu vergleichen.

Bei Fragen kann man mir gerne eine PM schreiben bzw. sie im Diskussionsthread stellen.
That nice, care to translate that for us Americans that only speak Enlish
 

Ben42

Semi-Pro
Thank you all for sharing your experience with Pro's Pro strings. I've read through the 20 pages and there's a general consensus about the dramatic initial tension drop with PP poly strings. Unfortunately, only a few members briefly mentioned about trying any prestretching (machine or manual) to minimize this drop. I'd appreciate it if anyone can share additional experience regarding poly prestretching.
I string on a cheap little dropweight so it's easy for me to "prestretch" by lowering the arm very slowly and letting it sit at tension for 10 seconds or so. When I do this I don't notice a big tension drop.
 
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chrisb

Semi-Pro
You can wait about 5 counts when stringing poly to make sure it is locked in at the tension. I cut it out after about 10 hrs of play. I string poly at 50, so I guess I am playing with it at about 46. You can feel when it stretches or dies
 

Kenny022593

Professional
Thank you all for sharing your experience with Pro's Pro strings. I've read through the 20 pages and there's a general consensus about the dramatic initial tension drop with PP poly strings. Unfortunately, only a few members briefly mentioned about trying any prestretching (machine or manual) to minimize this drop. I'd appreciate it if anyone can share additional experience regarding poly prestretching.

Because of the glowing feedback, I have ordered a reel of Black Out 1.24mm. I will also likely order a reel of Black Force 1.24mm to use as cross string with BO mains, as some have done here. I'm hoping this combination will work with my Wilson Burn 95 (non CV) and fit my first-strike, heavy topspin, blow-'em-off-the-court game. My current string setup is Volkl Cyclone 17@52lbs mains and Volkl V-Pro 17@50lbs crosses. After so many years playing tennis, I just bought a Klippermate stringer and I can't wait to try out some PP shaped polys.
There is very minimal initial tension drop with the new formulation of Vendetta. The downside is that it is not as durable as the previous version. Great string and a great substitute for anyone who likes more powerful/"crisper" polyesters.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
There is very minimal initial tension drop with the new formulation of Vendetta. The downside is that it is not as durable as the previous version. Great string and a great substitute for anyone who likes more powerful/"crisper" polyesters.
@Kenny022593, is the new (Nano?) Vendetta slick or shiny? Do you think it would work well as a cross string with a shaped main? Are you able to compare it with Black Force?
 

zipplock

Semi-Pro
I've never played IH or Revolve, but I've been playing with Red Devil for a while now. It plays softer for me than the multis I used to play (albeit at 50lbs rather than 60). It stretches like a syn gut on my drop weight stringer.
I play full bed Red Devil 1.19 at 40lbs and love it!!!!
 

Karstic

Rookie
@Kenny022593, is the new (Nano?) Vendetta slick or shiny? Do you think it would work well as a cross string with a shaped main? Are you able to compare it with Black Force?
I've strung up Black Force once, as a cross to Black Out, and it offered the most stretch while stringing of any polyester I've tried. Nano Vendetta, in contrast, offers the least. I don't have enough experience with it to tell you anything about how it plays though. Nano Vendetta should make a great cross string. In fact, I initially bought it to cross with BHSR, but came to like it in a full bed.
 

djNEiGht

Hall of Fame
I think I read on BIG T that Lethal 5 is comparable to Solinco Tour Bite. What are the forum members consensus on an Tour Bite alternative?
 

Kenny022593

Professional
@Kenny022593, is the new (Nano?) Vendetta slick or shiny? Do you think it would work well as a cross string with a shaped main? Are you able to compare it with Black Force?
The three colors of regular Vendetta have a different finish to the string. Silver is a bit more matte, black and silver are slightly shiny with the edge going to black. They all play virtually the same, but I would give slickness to the silver.
 

Imago

Hall of Fame
Re: Stratagem 10
Finally bought one reel and strung my LM prestige mp with it. Soft and very comfortable poly, looking almost round with its 10 edges wich unlike s8 are not cutting at all. After stringing (very easy to string), DT is less by 2 kg than expected, so one should probably consider prestretching. No vibrations or tinny sounds when bouncing the ball. Good snapback. Feeling light and easy to the elbow when serving. More on the controlled side notwithstanding the soft stringbed. Now going to the court...
 
Re: Stratagem 10
Finally bought one reel and strung my LM prestige mp with it. Soft and very comfortable poly, looking almost round with its 10 edges wich unlike s8 are not cutting at all. After stringing (very easy to string), DT is less by 2 kg than expected, so one should probably consider prestretching. No vibrations or tinny sounds when bouncing the ball. Good snapback. Feeling light and easy to the elbow when serving. More on the controlled side notwithstanding the soft stringbed. Now going to the court...
What kind of tension mechanism are you using? Crank, drop or electronic constant pull? Huge difference on crank vs cp on a poly. Prestretching a poly in general is not recommended.
 

Imago

Hall of Fame
What kind of tension mechanism are you using? Crank, drop or electronic constant pull? Huge difference on crank vs cp on a poly. Prestretching a poly in general is not recommended.
DWCP - 26/25 on the outer side produces 23/20 DT. Which i like in a real game. Feels like playing with NG/poly. Now let us see how long it will hold. Considering the price (20 euro/reel), I can string the racket every 4 hours.
 

Karma Tennis

Hall of Fame
I have black out. The edges are more rounded off.
I have strung several rolls of Black Out 1.24mm and I don't see that the edges are rounded off that much for a 5 sided string. For sure, the edges aren't as sharp as V-Torque but I'm not aware of an PP string that would come close to V-Torque in that department.
 

tennisBIEST

Semi-Pro
I have strung several rolls of Black Out 1.24mm and I don't see that the edges are rounded off that much for a 5 sided string. For sure, the edges aren't as sharp as V-Torque but I'm not aware of an PP string that would come close to V-Torque in that department.
The award for Pro's Pro string with " Sharpest Edges" goes to(fumbling around trying to open envelope during drum roll) Strategem 8!
 

WhETHANs

Rookie
The award for Pro's Pro string with " Sharpest Edges" goes to(fumbling around trying to open envelope during drum roll) Strategem 8!
I second this. Strategem 8 is sharper than blackout. I heard there was a strategem 5 which should have sharper edges but I haven't used it yet.
 

kailash

Professional
What are the best crosses for Blackout? I usually play Poly/Syn.Gut hybrid, and recently venturing into full bed of polys. For Blackout mains, which out of Concept, Black Force or Syn.Gut is a better cross? Looking for better control without losing comfort.
 

tennisBIEST

Semi-Pro
I've played all three of those choices and Black Force was the best cross paired with Black Out. Black Force is very elastic(Same as Red Devil) similar to a synthetic gut but offers better control and spin yet still comfortable. Concept is also a nice cross as well just didn't have the same control and spin as BF did. I'm still a big fan of a full bed of Black Out though. Find your tension of full bed of Black Out at somewhere between mid 40's-low 50's then go online and buy 3 reels:D
 

tennisBIEST

Semi-Pro
I've played all three of those choices and Black Force was the best cross paired with Black Out. Black Force is very elastic(Same as Red Devil) similar to a synthetic gut but offers better control and spin yet still comfortable. Concept is also a nice cross as well just didn't have the same control and spin as BF did. I'm still a big fan of a full bed of Black Out though. Find your tension of full bed of Black Out at somewhere between mid 40's-low 50's then go online and buy 3 reels:D
 

kailash

Professional
I've played all three of those choices and Black Force was the best cross paired with Black Out. Black Force is very elastic(Same as Red Devil) similar to a synthetic gut but offers better control and spin yet still comfortable. Concept is also a nice cross as well just didn't have the same control and spin as BF did. I'm still a big fan of a full bed of Black Out though. Find your tension of full bed of Black Out at somewhere between mid 40's-low 50's then go online and buy 3 reels:D
Thanks; will give it a try in full bed and also with Black Force.
 
Next month I'll receive my first stringing machine, and I'm interested in pro's pro strings to start tinkering with setups. I currently use hyper-g 1,20mm.

Any suggestions on strings?

I heard hexaspin twist is good enough, but I'd like to know which ones are also worth trying.

Thanks in advance!
 

tennisBIEST

Semi-Pro
Next month I'll receive my first stringing machine, and I'm interested in pro's pro strings to start tinkering with setups. I currently use hyper-g 1,20mm.

Any suggestions on strings?

I heard hexaspin twist is good enough, but I'd like to know which ones are also worth trying.

Thanks in advance!
I've been a longtime fan of PP Black Out. However I'm loving Hyper G 1.20. The long playability, comfort and spin have won me over. My serves are sooo much better with HG than with BO.
 

styksnstryngs

Professional
I'm currently using PP ichiban spin 17g strung at 50 in the mains, combined with gosen syngut crosses at 53. The setup is ok, but would like to try something different. I'll probably keep a syngut cross, but do you guys have any recommendations on different mains? I'm stuck between devil spin, red devil, hexaspin, and BO. The ichiban spin is not too comfortable, but it's not terrible-I'd just like a little more comfort. My priorities in order are spin, comfort, and power.
 

tennisBIEST

Semi-Pro
I'm also a big fan of BlackOut/SynGut hybrid. It seemingly gets better as it ages! Spin was dynamite along with great comfort and power! This would be my go to if I wasn't such a full poly junky!
 

JOSHL

Hall of Fame
I'm also a big fan of BlackOut/SynGut hybrid. It seemingly gets better as it ages! Spin was dynamite along with great comfort and power! This would be my go to if I wasn't such a full poly junky!
Yes! I was freaking out because I had it in my PA team for a few weeks but it wasn't bothering me. I ended up cutting it out just because, not because it was playing bad. Now I have full bed BHB7 and I don't like it nearly as much.
 

styksnstryngs

Professional
Does anyone know how ichiban spin stacks up to other strings in terms of comfort? That would make my decision a lot easier, because if it's a lot stiffer than the other strings, I won't have to worry about that factor.
 

tennisBIEST

Semi-Pro
Yes! I was freaking out because I had it in my PA team for a few weeks but it wasn't bothering me. I ended up cutting it out just because, not because it was playing bad. Now I have full bed BHB7 and I don't like it nearly as much.
I've done the same thing. It plays better after it loses some tension...which is normally not something us tennis players like! I believe the last time I played this setup was with my APD'13 with BO/Tecnifibfre SG 16g and it was just awesome!
 

4-string

Professional
Does anyone know how ichiban spin stacks up to other strings in terms of comfort? That would make my decision a lot easier, because if it's a lot stiffer than the other strings, I won't have to worry about that factor.
I tried it only in one frame, a Wilson 6.1 95 18x20 and it is the stiffest, least comfortable string I ever tried. The only other string that came close was Tecnifibre 4S.

I have the yellow 1.20 variety. It tops the list of most hated strings for me.

YMMV.
 

struggle

Legend
Been using red devil 1.19 (17L) as a cross for cheap gut mains.

It serves me fine and i haven't tried lots of PP string ( i do keep vendetta on hand for my poly friends).

Anyone suggest a better cross from the PP lineup for a gut/poly hybrid?
 

WhETHANs

Rookie
Been using red devil 1.19 (17L) as a cross for cheap gut mains.

It serves me fine and i haven't tried lots of PP string ( i do keep vendetta on hand for my poly friends).

Anyone suggest a better cross from the PP lineup for a gut/poly hybrid?
I hate to say it again but pros pros concept is the best string they've got imo, especially with gut mains because it is slick and has great tension maintenance.
 

Momentum

New User
I'm glad I found this thread, very informative and helpful - I was looking for a budget string since I play and restring often. I was quite close to purchasing some Luxilon 4G or ALU Power

Instead I purchased 2 reels of Blackout, and 1 reel of Blackforce for 1/3 of the price of Luxilon! Will try some full beds of BO, and hybrid, most likely at 54/52 as recommended :)
 

graycrait

Hall of Fame
I'm going to have to get some PP strings. Even though I have purchased $19/set poly I can't believe it is chemically and physically that much different than "cheaper" polys I've picked up for $2/3/set. I've been wrong before, but something seems a bit "off" about poly and the dramatic cost differences and large number of branded models. I wish someone who has the skill would run a long term "cheap" poly test.
 

tennisBIEST

Semi-Pro
As a "Pro's Pro" believer I have experienced first hand the amazing price to performance over the last 3-4 years. The one overall negative characteristic of these strings would be for me the short playability. So that just means I restring more often but that's a smart thing to do with polys. I've been on Hyper G run here lately but I've decided I needed a less spinny string to get easier depth on my groundies. I have given PPPP 1.18 another look at a lower tension then my previous attempt and I'm extremely satisfied with it at 50/50. The blend of power/control/spin is just perfect for my game. Downside is that it broke in less than 3 hours. May need to get 1.23 next but will keep stringing this for the time being.
 

Galdust

Rookie
I'm going to have to get some PP strings. Even though I have purchased $19/set poly I can't believe it is chemically and physically that much different than "cheaper" polys I've picked up for $2/3/set. I've been wrong before, but something seems a bit "off" about poly and the dramatic cost differences and large number of branded models. I wish someone who has the skill would run a long term "cheap" poly test.
Agree. Also, I'm not so sure about this playability issue that most people seem to think their polys suffer from. I mean, why should their polys be much worse in that regard compared to others? Some polys last longer, but that is often due to high stiffness or being prestretched. I suspect this to be a preconceived opinion due to the low cost of Pro's Pro strings. I might of course be wrong!
 

Muppet

Legend
Agree. Also, I'm not so sure about this playability issue that most people seem to think their polys suffer from. I mean, why should their polys be much worse in that regard compared to others? Some polys last longer, but that is often due to high stiffness or being prestretched. I suspect this to be a preconceived opinion due to the low cost of Pro's Pro strings. I might of course be wrong!
I'll back you up on the longevity of Pro's Pro. Pretty mediocre. Not as good as the better polys, but longer lasting than Luxilon ALU and Babolat RPM Blast, which are big $$$. Pro's Pro has an excellent selection and some of them last longer than others.
 
I hate to say it again but pros pros concept is the best string they've got imo, especially with gut mains because it is slick and has great tension maintenance.
Second that! I have played a bunch and Concept is what I have ended up with. Also stringing it as a std poly to others. They have all been happy. Only tried 1.28 though, so I will buy the 1.22 also and try it out also.
 

kevonian

Rookie
I've played with blackout, red devil, and concept. I would rank it as follows
  1. Concept
  2. Blackout
  3. Red Devil
Still have some string left in my reels, but I am planning to try a few more. Next is Stratagem 8, Plus Power, and maybe vendetta
 

JOSHL

Hall of Fame
I've played with blackout, red devil, and concept. I would rank it as follows
  1. Concept
  2. Blackout
  3. Red Devil
Still have some string left in my reels, but I am planning to try a few more. Next is Stratagem 8, Plus Power, and maybe vendetta
Can't wait to hear feedback on those as well. I've played black out and intense heat. Blackout is better by far. Def want to try concept.
 
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