PS97S & Dimitrov Prototype Frame Observations

There must be a reason of all these only around 4 are still on the market, of those 2 are leaving soon, of those 2 one isn't sold in America. I'm all for more variety and but the general trend isn't pretty.
A racquet can't sell if they take it off of the market. But they don't take a racquet off the market just because it didn't sell. Look at the Wilson Six-One 95s. They were a huge seller but they took it off of the market anyway.

People can't buy what's not available.
 
From what I've seen in my area, the older players are actually less likely to spend money on new rackets. Maybe theyre more frugal, so they stick to rackets from years and years ago. Whereas the younger crowd and juniors are more likely to switch rackets. Parents are also more willing to buy new stuff for their kids. So I think the racket companies know that, so they design rackets that fit more for that crowd, which means a no go for 90-93 sq in. Head stopped selling the Prestige Mid cause it just wasn't selling well. It's a shame but what can you do, it's all about money.
It's probably also because the older players have far more experience so they already know what works in a tennis racquet and are less likely to switch to something new or to what some pro is using just to be trendy. Younger players are in general more clueless and impressionable and have a stronger need to be trendy and be with the "in crowd" and use what others are using and care much more what their peers think of what they're using. Most older players are secure enough in themselves not to succumb to peer pressure. :)
 
A racquet can't sell if they take it off of the market. But they don't take a racquet off the market just because it didn't sell. Look at the Wilson Six-One 95s. They were a huge seller but they took it off of the market anyway.

People can't buy what's not available.
Amen to that ^
 
13687386_677973805711322_2022239003_n.jpg

14063151_319921031687808_1519356704_n.jpg

Dimitrov back with the 97S?? no shared hole on that racket
EDIT: My bad, there are shared holes

Photo Credit to https://www.instagram.com/atanasentchev/
 
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If you have the previous model as well perhaps some side by side of PWS, top of the handle, bridge. I'm seeing a slight widening at the top of the throat in this pic that looks to be indicative of the new model and not present on the previous retail or Carpe Diem.

Oh, and by boxy I was refering to the term used by Wilson Fan in the link provided.
So I looked at the racquets a bit closer and it's definitely more boxy. Maybe that's why I think it has even more feel than the previous. I wish they would get to 9-12 pts HL like my old Six.One 95S or the RF. That would make the racquet perfect!

Also after looking at the link provided these racquets look like the Boxy prototype Dimitrov was using.
 
A racquet can't sell if they take it off of the market. But they don't take a racquet off the market just because it didn't sell. Look at the Wilson Six-One 95s. They were a huge seller but they took it off of the market anyway.

People can't buy what's not available.

The 6.1 95S is a great frame, as was the last version of the 6.1 95.
Imo they removed that line to make room for the PS/RF97 line, as well as the FST 95/99 line(s).
Again, imo, Wilson has too many options, and some that are def superfluous, as the PS, Ultra, Burn (/FST) and Blade lines have many overlaps.
 
Did you hit with his frame or something else that was 93 18x17? I did a rough comparison of the 93 and 97 and they appear to be very close in pattern, mainly wider outer mains to get that string out of the shared hole.

oBZ7a6E.jpg

These are impressive photoshop-detective skills right here. Respect.

I feel like it is cyclical and dependent on playing style, though. For instance, Agassi was winning with an OS Radical while Federer was dominating with a PS90. Today, Nadal uses a 100, yes. But most of the top 10 (Novak, Murray, Nishikori, Wawrinka, Cilic, and Thiem) use headsizes between 95-98. Just as close to a 90 as they are to a 100....... The headsize is arbitrary. Sure, you get more spin, forgiveness, and power from a 100-110sq in frame. That really shouldn't equate to them being "better." It's all about preference in terms of the playing experience. The feeling of striking a ball. These companies (Wilson, Babolat, Prince, HEAD) have given up on trying to market midsize frames. You can properly market them, just no one knows how. It doesn't really make sense that manufacturers completely remove these offerings from their lineups when they have been proven to correlate with winning tennis.
The reason mids are on the out isn't because they're inherently better or worse (as some on this forum would stubbornly have you believe), but because the general public at large has realized the difficulty of playing with them, and wants something a little bit easier to use. I'm a high level player and I've done the exact same thing, going from the super flexible small sweet-spot 315Ltd to a 98 sq Yonex to help me reach my tennis goals. What's more, when set up properly, some of these more powerful midplus racquets can play with really nice feel and touch. I've worked in a tennis shop and sold/strung many racquets, and even when price isn't an objection (as it wasn't for many of our customers), I can probably count on one hand the number of people who would knowingly buy a racquet that is difficult to play with and requires them to be "on" with their footwork, technique, and fitness close to 100% of the time. Most people know they're not professionals, and just want to go out there, hit a few nice shots, and have a good time. I say whatever gets people on the court is good.

I'd be cautious to say "they've been proven to correlate with winning tennis" because that's just confirmation bias. Just because Fed dominated with a PS90 and Sampras with a PS85 doesn't mean their racquets were the cause of their success. Those two in their prime would have dominated with anything because of their raw skill and ball striking and mental ability. And look at the life the 97 has breathed into Fed's game at 33-35. Injuries aside he's competing with the top 5 in the world with basically just his serve and occasionally his forehand as weapons, as compared to his prime where every shot was deadly. Could he do it with the PS90? I'd say probably, but you never really know.

I saw Dimitrov play two matches in Cincy. The first against Giles Simon wasn't even close. The second against Feliciano Lopez was outstanding. Both men played unbelievably entertaining tennis. I was amazed at Lopez's ability to take any ball off the backhand and put a slice down into a right hander's backhand. Dimitrov played great as well and won in a 3rd set tiebreak.

I gotta also say that Ellesse and Lacoste had the best looking kits by far!
Lopez is great fun to watch, I agree. Imagine his work ethic and willingness to go against the grain, growing up in the Spanish system with his kind of game. I bet as a kid he had tons of pressure to switch his backhand up and become much more of a grinder. Great fun to watch though. I think he has one of the best serves on tour.
 
So it the one Grigor using atm a custom 95 with a 97s paint job?

If he has shared holes, which he has since his midsummer nightmare, thats an indication the racquet is what he used before the 97. I actually haven't seen the thread that determined it is 93 and not 94 or 92 that he used then and now, but nobody seems to disagree.

Custom 93 was painted as:
  • BLX Tour
  • Pro Staff ninety five
  • Pro Staff 95S
Carpe Diem Prototype was only black, became the 97S (version 10)

Boxy Prototype
  • was black
  • painted as the 97S (version 10)
  • might be released as 97S (version 11)
This summer he returned to the Custom 93 painted as:
  • Pro Staff 95S
  • now appears to be painted as 97S (version 11)
 
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These are impressive photoshop-detective skills right here. Respect.

Thanks! Of note: The biggest concerns are angle of the frame and field curvature of the camera lens. Thats why I say it is rough, both are scaled to be the same height from tip to butt cap, but the 97 bridge should likely be slightly lower.
 
@Raizu Thanks for the pics.

The sides of the frame at the top of the grip, just a bit below the 'n' of Wilson, are very straight and don't begin to taper out directly from the handle as the previous model did. It reminds me quite a bit of the 2014 Pro Staff 95 which had a similar transition from handle to throat.

Did the center crosses move or is it the PWS? I think I'm seeing slightly different spacing of mains around the throat tie off, but I can't tell for sure

b4PQQhX.jpg
 
These are impressive photoshop-detective skills right here. Respect.

Agreed (especially considering I couldn't even get two to rotate. :)).

Lopez is great fun to watch, I agree. Imagine his work ethic and willingness to go against the grain, growing up in the Spanish system with his kind of game. I bet as a kid he had tons of pressure to switch his backhand up and become much more of a grinder. Great fun to watch though. I think he has one of the best serves on tour.

I tell ya, he and Dimitrov hit more volleys in the first set than the rest of the field did the whole tournament! I saw him practicing with Marc Lopez. They were sharing a court with the Bryans and all were wearing it out.
 
@Raizu Thanks for the pics.

The sides of the frame at the top of the grip, just a bit below the 'n' of Wilson, are very straight and don't begin to taper out directly from the handle as the previous model did. It reminds me quite a bit of the 2014 Pro Staff 95 which had a similar transition from handle to throat.

Did the center crosses move or is it the PWS? I think I'm seeing slightly different spacing of mains around the throat tie off, but I can't tell for sure

b4PQQhX.jpg
Thats impressive photoshopping! Looks like the blacked out racquet is nearly identical to my current (new PS97S)
 
These are impressive photoshop-detective skills right here. Respect.


The reason mids are on the out isn't because they're inherently better or worse (as some on this forum would stubbornly have you believe), but because the general public at large has realized the difficulty of playing with them, and wants something a little bit easier to use. I'm a high level player and I've done the exact same thing, going from the super flexible small sweet-spot 315Ltd to a 98 sq Yonex to help me reach my tennis goals. What's more, when set up properly, some of these more powerful midplus racquets can play with really nice feel and touch. I've worked in a tennis shop and sold/strung many racquets, and even when price isn't an objection (as it wasn't for many of our customers), I can probably count on one hand the number of people who would knowingly buy a racquet that is difficult to play with and requires them to be "on" with their footwork, technique, and fitness close to 100% of the time. Most people know they're not professionals, and just want to go out there, hit a few nice shots, and have a good time. I say whatever gets people on the court is good.

I'd be cautious to say "they've been proven to correlate with winning tennis" because that's just confirmation bias. Just because Fed dominated with a PS90 and Sampras with a PS85 doesn't mean their racquets were the cause of their success. Those two in their prime would have dominated with anything because of their raw skill and ball striking and mental ability. And look at the life the 97 has breathed into Fed's game at 33-35. Injuries aside he's competing with the top 5 in the world with basically just his serve and occasionally his forehand as weapons, as compared to his prime where every shot was deadly. Could he do it with the PS90? I'd say probably, but you never really know.



Lopez is great fun to watch, I agree. Imagine his work ethic and willingness to go against the grain, growing up in the Spanish system with his kind of game. I bet as a kid he had tons of pressure to switch his backhand up and become much more of a grinder. Great fun to watch though. I think he has one of the best serves on tour.


Totally agree with you, brotha!!! Spot on!
 
Thats impressive photoshopping! Looks like the blacked out racquet is nearly identical to my current (new PS97S)

Yeah, the mold has several uniquely common features. You might look down the grommet strip side by side and note any spacing changes.

Rather than Wilson being the issue not selling what players use it seems they can't get a frame out of the factory before Dimitrov switches to the next one.
 
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PS97S v10.0 was the frame geometry he was playing with at the time that frame was first released, he then experimented with a boxier frame geometry and the PS97S v11.0 was updated to match that. :)

I wonder how he used to customize the boxier version. I seem to remember you wrote he added 20g of lead to the handle to make it more headlight. Any lead on the hoop?
And also: what is he using now? 93? 94? 95?
 
Curious that the new frames are on sale but I'm not seeing any players using them at the US Open. At first I thought Grigor might be waiting out his contract or something, but nobody else is swinging the new paint either.
 
Curious that the new frames are on sale but I'm not seeing any players using them at the US Open. At first I thought Grigor might be waiting out his contract or something, but nobody else is swinging the new paint either.
Same reason Head hasn't released the new Speed racquet. Release dates are after the US Open. Apparently Juniors will be using the new Speed paint job during the US Open but not the pros. I was also surprised Dimitrov didn't have the PJ
 
Same reason Head hasn't released the new Speed racquet. Release dates are after the US Open. Apparently Juniors will be using the new Speed paint job during the US Open but not the pros. I was also surprised Dimitrov didn't have the PJ

Oh, I think I was confused by guys buying them at the Wilson booth, notice TW is still on presale. Thanks.

That thin beam looks looks pretty sweet.
bEOf6H5.jpg
 
Same reason Head hasn't released the new Speed racquet. Release dates are after the US Open. Apparently Juniors will be using the new Speed paint job during the US Open but not the pros. I was also surprised Dimitrov didn't have the PJ

It probably has something to do with Federer not being on TV. They don't want these "lesser" model (less expensive really) to get more publicity than the big daddy stick.

They probably don't want all the $220 frames getting the attention, while the $250 frame is getting zero TV time.
 
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He's using the new pj in practice though.

Because the cameras aren't rolling in practice...

Hey, since Dimitrov uses the spin effect pattern, along with Dolgopolov, making that 2 out of the top 100 pros, that means "most" advanced players are adopting to it now, right? How come you stopped responding to the other thread?
 
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I wonder how he used to customize the boxier version. I seem to remember you wrote he added 20g of lead to the handle to make it more headlight. Any lead on the hoop?
And also: what is he using now? 93? 94? 95?
Yes, there is and there has always been. Look at this picture from 2014 AO, you can clearly see the lead tape coming out from the bumper guard.
article.jpg

Considering his specs has always been about 350gr 33.7cm 365SW strung and about 335gr 32.5cm 334SW unstrung, he definitly puts 8-10 gr of lead in the hoop.
So if the 2015 Pro Staff 97S specs are the Dimitrov stock racquet specs, then his racquet is cutomized with approximately 25 grams divided in 15gr in the butt cup and 10 in the hoop.
 
Because the cameras aren't rolling in practice...

Hey, since Dimitrov uses the spin effect pattern, along with Dolgopolov, making that 2 out of the top 100 pros, that means "most" advanced players are adopting to it now, right? How come you stopped responding to the other thread?

Because you're one of the most unpleasant people here and I prefer ignoring you and your quips. I wish you'd just do the same.
 
I was looking back at the pics linked to by wilson fan, and realized with both racquets on the floor I could reflect the image and compare.

Thats how I originally noticed several of the differences between frames. The head guard length, PWS position, and throat contour stood out to me. In comparing the product photos there appears to be some minor differences in grommet spacing that appears slightly reduce density in the edges of the stringbed. @Raizu or someone else with both, could you take a look and see if there is any appreciable difference? Think of it as a spotters guide if you are watching an old match.

XmBUv47.jpg
 
I was looking back at the pics linked to by wilson fan, and realized with both racquets on the floor I could reflect the image and compare.

Thats how I originally noticed several of the differences between frames. The head guard length, PWS position, and throat contour stood out to me. In comparing the product photos there appears to be some minor differences in grommet spacing that appears slightly reduce density in the edges of the stringbed. @Raizu or someone else with both, could you take a look and see if there is any appreciable difference? Think of it as a spotters guide if you are watching an old match.

XmBUv47.jpg
Give me a day as tomorrow I'm swamped and I'll look closely and even take some measurements and get back to you.
 
He repped the 95S before the 97S prototype. Apparently they prepared his 93 with 95S paint. Maybe it was for fallback if he bailed on the 97S

So he switched to a 97 sqin frame? Was that image before the 97S was released? I just find it weird that (aside from a few novelty frames like the Edberg 97) they would paint a different name on the racket, especially one with a different headsize.
 
So he switched to a 97 sqin frame? Was that image before the 97S was released? I just find it weird that (aside from a few novelty frames like the Edberg 97) they would paint a different name on the racket, especially one with a different headsize.

From around the start of 2015 until Boodles last year he played the 97S, then he returned to the custom 93 you see in the pic.

Tons of wilson frames have paintjobs with misleading names and numbers. The majority of burns are a H22 98 or steam 99. Most of the Pro Staff players are Six.One 95, not 97.
 
From around the start of 2015 until Boodles last year he played the 97S, then he returned to the custom 93 you see in the pic.

Tons of wilson frames have paintjobs with misleading names and numbers. The majority of burns are a H22 98 or steam 99. Most of the Pro Staff players are Six.One 95, not 97.

But the marketed ones were the Steam 99 and Pro Staff 97. That's different than having a 6.1 95 under a modified PS97 paint where it says ProStaff 95 instead of 97. Covering rackets with retail paint is understandable. Covering them with non-retail paint pointing towards a totally different racket than what the rest of the paintjob is trying to sell is what's confusing.

So he's back on the 93? Good to know. I guess... (Bloody paintjobs...)
 
But the marketed ones were the Steam 99 and Pro Staff 97. That's different than having a 6.1 95 under a modified PS97 paint where it says ProStaff 95 instead of 97. Covering rackets with retail paint is understandable. Covering them with non-retail paint pointing towards a totally different racket than what the rest of the paintjob is trying to sell is what's confusing.

So he's back on the 93? Good to know. I guess... (Bloody paintjobs...)

I think you misunderstand, (and I misunderstood you) there was a black and red pro staff 95S sold beside the RF97 and PS97S so that is a paintjob of a retail frame. It was 16x15, his was not.
 
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