PTPA is going to hurt Novak BIG TIME

Bluefan75

Professional
I would classify myself as a FedFan. State that upfront.

I don't know enough about the details to have a firm opinion, but I can't help but think Federer is perfectly ok with everything as is, because, well, the man is richer than some third world countries. And not appearing to cause trouble and rock the boat is likely a good business/political move. But there is something wrong when prize money skews so highly to the top end that only 100 players really make money, and when such a small percentage of tournament revenue is paid to players.

Unless someone does a study and can show that people buy tickets to see the executives or support the organization and don't care about the play, it's the players driving the revenue, and they should see that money. I know people like to rip on lower ranked players and call them journeymen who never win, etc., but if you want your Fed and Djokovic and Nadal title runs, they have to have people to beat. And you run out of those if there is no money. More players is always a good thing.

I don't know if Djokovic's plan is the answer, but agree with the other posts that if you base your opinion on this issue depending on which player supports what, you really are missing the forest for the trees.
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
During the shortened 2020 season ratings were down but overall the NBA has been doing great.
Linking Breitbart twice in a week :-D:-D:-D

Let us deal with FACTS instead of killing the messenger. NBA Ratings are down a whopping 25%-33% from 2019 (before pandemic) to 2021. Cord-cutting does not explain the huge audience drop off.

Last week, reporter Bobby Burack of Outkick posted a scathing recapitulation of the NBA’s current ratings woes.​
“The media yelled ‘Bubble!’ last season as the NBA’s rating tanked to lows you had to blink twice to believe,” Burack wrote. “Fine, let’s take last year out and compare this year to 2019. Are you sure that’s what you want? To forget last year’s numbers? Outkick has learned that since 2019, NBA broadcasts on ABC, ESPN (and) TNT are down 25 percent. Gone. Have not returned.”​
While cord-cutting has hurt all TV programs, the NBA is in a league all its own.
Other sports have not suffered nearly as much. The 2021 Preakness actually increased viewership from 2019 by 29%.​
Wow …
A separate report from Anthony Crupi of Sportico dug even deeper into the data and found a troubling development related to the league’s core target demographic.​
“The NBA’s shrinking broadcast audience coincides with an even more vertiginous drop-off among the members of the core target demo,” Crupi noted. “Two years ago, ABC’s NBA coverage averaged 1.47 million adults 18-49 per game, a turnout that shrunk to 1.16 million in 2019-20 and fell all the way to 993,000 fans in the under-50 set this season. In other words, nearly one-third (32 percent) of ABC’s dollar demo has wandered off in the course of two years.”​
 
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Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Why on earth Djokovic brings this up now is mind boggling.

Yes, he should wait until he’s retired when he doesn’t have the clout and visibility of being #1 player in the world. Bring it up in a few years at the bar over drinks with friends not before W one of the few times a year the players are all together at the same event and when the entire tennis world is watching his every move for a story story. The USO 2020 was not the right time. Now is not the right time. When he’s retired and the tennis world has moved on that will be the time. He can push for it then. Excellent strategy.

The “not the right time” is not a pro-ATP argument it’s a transparent, reactive strategy to try to stall and ultimately kill the PTPA from inertia.
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Djokovic has been through this before. Is this the 2nd or 3rd year that this has come up? He knew it couldn't hurt him, or else he would've pushed it aside.

It’s been coming up in one form or another since the advent of open tennis. What is somewhat new is we now have the world #1 pushing for a player’s only association.
 

Fabresque

Legend
The ATP are trash anyways. Good on anyone trying to protect player interests and go up against some huge conglomerate like them.
 

Bluemoon20

New User
Yes, he should wait until he’s retired when he doesn’t have the clout and visibility of being #1 player in the world. Bring it up in a few years at the bar over drinks with friends not before W one of the few times a year the players are all together at the same event and when the entire tennis world is watching his every move for a story story. The USO 2020 was not the right time. Now is not the right time. When he’s retired and the tennis world has moved on that will be the time. He can push for it then. Excellent strategy.

The “not the right time” is not a pro-ATP argument it’s a transparent, reactive strategy to try to stall and ultimately kill the PTPA from inertia.
It will cost him wimbledon. The British press is the last load of journalists he needs grief from.
 

CCPass

Semi-Pro
I would classify myself as a FedFan. State that upfront.

I don't know enough about the details to have a firm opinion, but I can't help but think Federer is perfectly ok with everything as is, because, well, the man is richer than some third world countries. And not appearing to cause trouble and rock the boat is likely a good business/political move. But there is something wrong when prize money skews so highly to the top end that only 100 players really make money, and when such a small percentage of tournament revenue is paid to players.

Unless someone does a study and can show that people buy tickets to see the executives or support the organization and don't care about the play, it's the players driving the revenue, and they should see that money. I know people like to rip on lower ranked players and call them journeymen who never win, etc., but if you want your Fed and Djokovic and Nadal title runs, they have to have people to beat. And you run out of those if there is no money. More players is always a good thing.

I don't know if Djokovic's plan is the answer, but agree with the other posts that if you base your opinion on this issue depending on which player supports what, you really are missing the forest for the trees.
Truth, and it shows exactly what’s wrong with OP.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame

Boy I hate being right all the time

Yeah British people and especially British media are the biggest Novak supporters . :-D

If I keep your Sarcasm aside , I think you don't want to understand anything about labour laws , trade unions and social Justice. .

By tweeting in support of ATP , Fedal have shoot themselves in the foot last year . Even if they don't like Novak's idea ( which is fair ) ,they still should have refused to comment on this .
They actually have taken Pro- ATP side which has made it easy for Novak to ignore them and go all-out with his association inorder to fight for lower- ranked players .

Novak can't lose in this either ways .
If PTPA doesn't work , everyone will remember that Novak tried alot to help lower ranked players and if it's a success , then everyone will congratulate Novak :cool:
 

Tshooter

G.O.A.T.
Djoker needs to get Fed and Rafa on board.
Why are those two titans dragging their heels?
:unsure:

As you well know, FEDAL are not on-board because each does fabulously well under the current tour structure. Brand FEDR does what it wants. If Team8 wants a new event it gets the ATP sanction. Brand VAMOS is in the same good fortune boat. Instead of posing rhetorical questions marvel that Eggvax wants to rock the boat when he’s making out like a bandit as well.
 
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Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Is the vulgar man-child Lord Murray on board?
:unsure:

Former world No 1 Murray has also confirmed that he is not onboard with the new PTPA and explained why.​
“I won’t be signing it today. I’m not totally against a player union, player association, but right now there’s a couple of things,” he said.​
“One is I feel like the current management that are in place should be given some time to implement their vision. Whether that works out or not would potentially influence me in the future as to which way I would go.​
“Also the fact that the women aren’t part of it, I feel like that would send a significantly – well, just a much more powerful message personally if the WTA were onboard with it, as well. That’s not currently the case.”​
 
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CCPass

Semi-Pro
Is Lord Murray on board?
:unsure:

Former world No 1 Murray has also confirmed that he is not onboard with the new PTPA and explained why.​
“I won’t be signing it today. I’m not totally against a player union, player association, but right now there’s a couple of things,” he said.​
“One is I feel like the current management that are in place should be given some time to implement their vision. Whether that works out or not would potentially influence me in the future as to which way I would go.​
“Also the fact that the women aren’t part of it, I feel like that would send a significantly – well, just a much more powerful message personally if the WTA were onboard with it, as well. That’s not currently the case.”​
Running out of excuses, he has no choice but to join. WTA players are part of PTPA now.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Djoker needs to get Fed and Rafa on board.
Why are those two titans dragging their heels?
:unsure:

Because they know what this is really about and they want no part of it. Novak is not content to win all the biggest titles, he wants to put his stamp on professional tennis' administrative side for decades to come and to sharpen his political skills for when he becomes President of Serbia.

BTW--anyone who thinks Novak is doing this unselfishly, "for the people", is mistaken. Every aspiring dictator makes the same appeal: "I'm doing this for you!"

If he were doing it for the players, the players would be behind him 100% and vocally so, the female players wouldn't be saying "I haven't heard from him" and he'd have media support from people besides Pospisil.
 
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Because they know what this is really about and they want no part of it. Novak is not content to win all the biggest titles, he wants to put his stamp on professional tennis' administrative side for decades to come and to sharpen his political skills for when he becomes President of Serbia.

BTW--anyone who thinks Novak is doing this unselfishly, "for the people", is mistaken. Every aspiring dictator makes the same appeal: "I'm doing this for you!"

If he were doing it for the players, the players would be behind him 100% and vocally so, the female players wouldn't be saying "I haven't heard from him" and he'd have media support from people besides Pospisil.
“Virtual handshake”
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
ruling class media is worried about and supports the welfare of lower ranked players or is really really concerned about the poor in general , and the Athlete kid born to one of the richest man in city is actually concerned about the plight of lower ranked players or poor . What logic !
hahaha :-D :-D
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
ruling class media is worried about and supports the welfare of lower ranked players or is really really concerned about the poor in general , and the Athlete kid born to one of the richest man in city is actually concerned about the plight of lower ranked players or poor . What logic !
hahaha :-D :-D

Here we go again

Novak is not f¥cking Robin Hood dude
 

GabeT

G.O.A.T.
Djoker himself will give up once he loses 2-3 slams in a row cheaply. This fuel is ignited by him because he won RG and if not for that he would have sat quiet and focus on his Game,Records ...whatever.
Help me out, what was your last prior username?
 

Bartelby

Bionic Poster
Regardless of Djokovic's intentions or strategy, the establishment of a PTPA is an achievement that we need to wait until 2030 before any real assessment. An initial view is probably due around 2015.
 
The fact Andy Murray wants no part on this immediately seals the door on the argument for me considering Murray is basically the Tennis establishment with his knighthood and is always first to speak up on things that matter. Him not wanting to be involved rings alarm bells to me

This article is an eyeopener too considering his PTPA would mean players would lose out on appearance fees which I know Novak would not agree on
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
At least he’s put in efforts. What have Fedal done? And why aren’t you complaining?

Donald Trump has done charity events too. Now he's prohibited from ever running a charity in NY state again. So appearances can be deceiving.

Novak's "efforts" have yet to pan out as anything aside from him trying to overpower the ATP on his own behalf.

What have Fedal done? For starters, they've never done anything like this before. They're not into disrupting things just for the sake of doing it, Novak is trying to remake tennis in his own image.
 
Donald Trump has done charity events too. Now he's prohibited from ever running a charity in NY state again. So appearances can be deceiving.

Novak's "efforts" have yet to pan out as anything aside from him trying to overpower the ATP on his own behalf.

What have Fedal done? For starters, they've never done anything like this before. They're not into disrupting things just for the sake of doing it, Novak is trying to remake tennis in his own image.
The PTPA at this point remind me of the breakaway super league in football which got banned almost immediately by the upper echelons of the footballing world and disappeared into nothing, I can sense the same eventuality here
 

CCPass

Semi-Pro
Donald Trump has done charity events too. Now he's prohibited from ever running a charity in NY state again. So appearances can be deceiving.

Novak's "efforts" have yet to pan out as anything aside from him trying to overpower the ATP on his own behalf.

What have Fedal done? For starters, they've never done anything like this before. They're not into disrupting things just for the sake of doing it, Novak is trying to remake tennis in his own image.
What Trump did has nothing to do with tennis, so your first example is irrelevant.
Fedal have done nothing to advance the interests of lower ranked tennis players, which makes it even more important that Djokovic does something about it. If all three of them decide to just sit out and enjoy their lives, tennis as a whole is worse off not better off due to the majority of the professional tennis players unable to make a living playing the sport.
All other things are your speculation and not my problem.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
Here we go again

Novak is not f¥cking Robin Hood dude

Even if Novak was a Predator maniac who has took it upon himself to form PTPA inorder to fight ATP , still fed and Ned should have refused to comment on this topic as Novak is taking up the issue of wages of lower ranked players .
Even if they disagree with his idea ,they should have fckin stayed away from commenting on this .

The economic disparity between higher and lower ranked player is fckin inhuman .
Federer is a billionaire and Novak Rafa Serena Murray etc have reached half of close to a billionaire whereas the lower ranked player doesn't even have travel expenses . What a Shame ! Yuck .

Fedal have just sided with ATP and nothing else . They should have stayed away from taking sides .
They have made it easy for Novak to go ahead solo and to try and battle it out with the ATP all alone for the wage disparity between highest and lowest ranked players .

So , Fedal should not be brought in this topic and if Fedal fans use this topic to denigrate Novak more , that is more worse and pathetic than Fedal openly standing up in support of ATP .

Sensible empathetic people will always fight for economic and social equity in Organisations .

Fck ,what kind of society is this which hates a person ( nomatter where he comes from ) who is talking about increasing wages of lower ranked players and actively puts his interests on the line inorder for greater good for all ? Wow .
 
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Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Even if Novak was a Predator maniac who has took it upon himself to form PTPA inorder to fight ATP , still fed and Ned should have refused to comment on this topic as Novak is taking up the issue of wages of lower ranked players .
Even if they disagree with his idea ,they should have fckin stayed away from commenting on this .

The economic disparity between higher and lower ranked player is fckin inhuman .
Federer is a billionaire and Novak Rafa Serena Murray etc have reached half of close to a billionaire whereas the lower ranked player doesn't even have travel expenses . What a Shame ! Yuck .

Fedal have just sided with ATP and nothing else . They should have stayed away from taking sides .
They have made it easy for Novak to go ahead solo and to try and battle it out with the ATP all alone for the wage disparity between highest and lowest ranked players .

So , Fedal should not be brought in this topic and if Fedal fans use this topic to denigrate Novak more , that is more worse and pathetic than Fedal openly standing up in support of ATP .

Sensible empathetic people will always fight for economic and social equity in Organisations .

Fck ,what kind of society is this which hates a person ( nomatter where he comes from ) who is talking about increasing wages of lower ranked players and actively puts his interests on the line inorder for greater good for all ? Wow .

You are taking Novak's words entirely at face value though. The details are still pretty sparse and the whole thing just seems weird and disingenuous to most critical thinkers which is why the "western media" seem so critical of it.

If Novak hadn't already outed himself as a guy who's very into politics and power struggles re Kermode, this might not look so suspicious. But he did, so it does.
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
You are taking Novak's words entirely at face value though. The details are still pretty sparse and the whole thing just seems weird and disingenuous to most critical thinkers which is why the "western media" seem so critical of it.

If Novak hadn't already outed himself as a guy who's very into politics and power struggles re Kermode, this might not look so suspicious. But he did, so it does.

What has " critical thinkers/thinking " got to do with western media or any media for that purpose ??
 

maratha_warrior

Hall of Fame
You are taking Novak's words entirely at face value though. The details are still pretty sparse and the whole thing just seems weird and disingenuous to most critical thinkers which is why the "western media" seem so critical of it.

If Novak hadn't already outed himself as a guy who's very into politics and power struggles re Kermode, this might not look so suspicious. But he did, so it does.

Forget Novak , if my 14 year old cousin is inclined to politics and power struggle then il be mightily impressed ofcourse .
Any decent empathetic socially aware person/ worker who joins Politics then he is a great help for the society.

Societies which are ruled by goons encourage young men and women to stay away from politics and do a 9×5 job and stay honest loyal slaves to the Politician goons always .

Novak or anyone for that matter being Political is a good thing . There is nothing to dislike that about a person .
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Forget Novak , if my 14 year old cousin is inclined to politics and power struggle then il be mightily impressed ofcourse .
Any decent empathetic social worker who joins Politics then he is a great help for the society.
Societies which are ruled by goons encourage young men and women to stay away from politics and do a 9×5 job and stay honest loyal slaves to the Politician goons always .

Novak or anyone for that matter being Political is a good thing . There is nothing to dislike that about a person .

Novak is the goon lol
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Please explain how Novak fighting for lower ranked players is considered a goon. No you can’t, just as you can’t help getting blinded by your hatred for Novak.

If he were fighting for those things, he'd have gone about it completely differently. He'd have presented the ATP with a list of demands and got the 75% of players who have signed up for PTPA to sign that list.

As of right now what he's fighting for is to establish his own player association with him at the top. He already removed the head of the ATP and replaced him with his own guy--not enough, he wants more.

Removing Kermode enabled him to move the ATP Finals from freaking England to Italy! But he couldn't pass this wildly popular initiative to pay the players more? Hmm, interesting.
 

aus89

Hall of Fame
i dont think union busting would be a great look for the ATP (though they have already done it to some success apparently and obviously tennis press don't care about these issues) - of course the irony for this is it's a union for millionaires like Djokovic and Pospisil who spends a lot of time on Richard Branson's private island... so umm... I'm kinda with Murray on this one - seems like there is a lot of missing detail and the basic plan right now is "wouldn't it be great if" (and some other ulterior motive possibly) - unions are good and players should be supported (ie: providing safe workplaces, naomi osaka shouldn't be driven out of a tournament by her "employer"), the basic idea is good but they could use someone who actually cares about workers rights on board and not just a bunch of sports business and marketing goons
 
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the ATP is stuck in their old ways and unambitious. its just a matter of time before their stubbornness causes their demise. a clever lad like novak is just the type to bring about change
 

CCPass

Semi-Pro
If he were fighting for those things, he'd have gone about it completely differently. He'd have presented the ATP with a list of demands and got the 75% of players who have signed up for PTPA to sign that list.

As of right now what he's fighting for is to establish his own player association with him at the top. He already removed the head of the ATP and replaced him with his own guy--not enough, he wants more.

Removing Kermode enabled him to move the ATP Finals from freaking England to Italy! But he couldn't pass this wildly popular initiative to pay the players more? Hmm, interesting.
Well he’s smart and understands he needs leverage to have negotiation power against ATP.
Unlike you who think making a list of demands suddenly will change the structural problems that the current professional tennis has. Naive, or blinded by hatred, or both?
 

dr325i

G.O.A.T.
Novak has once again renewed his PTPA battle with the ATP with the ATP declaring “they will do anything and everything in their power to stop Novak from further developing the PTPA where he believes he can just do whatever he wants to do”
The “ Professional Tennis Players Association” founded by Vasek Pospisl and Novak Djokovic who both serve as presidents in the PTPA serves as a sort of players council and is not intended to replace the ATP. Djokovic and Pospisl claim that so many players want to join that it would be foolish for the ATP to deny talks with them, with the ATP saying that Novak has fragmented tennis and instead of creating unity has caused chaos and ” complete division”
With the ATP controlling most of what the men’s game is today, I have a feeling Novak could be fined heavily/ disciplined and be potentially denied access to certain tournaments including majors. Imagine Novak going to the US Open for the CYGS and getting sanctioned and refused acess to play by the ATP :laughing:

Dude, stop watching Tucker. Not healthy…
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Well he’s smart and understands he needs leverage to have negotiation power against ATP.
Unlike you who think making a list of demands suddenly will change the structural problems that the current professional tennis has. Naive, or blinded by hatred, or both?

He already got Kermode ousted and the Finals moved while acting within the confines of ATP player rep. Clearly he was already able to make some big changes that way. If he really cared about this issue, he'd have been able to make some headway on it through those channels.

So I feel that common sense should lead us to think that there is something else we are not being told, and that the stated reasons for this PTPA are probably misleading.
 

CCPass

Semi-Pro
He already got Kermode ousted and the Finals moved while acting within the confines of ATP player rep. Clearly he was already able to make some big changes that way. If he really cared about this issue, he'd have been able to make some headway on it through those channels.
Well that shows that he tried but that wasn’t enough to make any material changes, so PTPA is necessary to build sufficient leverage to make ATP listen further. Nothing strategically wrong with that.
 

Rosstour

G.O.A.T.
Well that shows that he tried but that wasn’t enough to make any material changes, so PTPA is necessary to build sufficient leverage to make ATP listen further. Nothing strategically wrong with that.

Feels like distributing the prize money differently should have been an easier task than moving the 5th most important tennis tournament of the year, out of tennis' ancestral home, as well as orchestrating the removal of a very popular president. Those are material changes.
 

CCPass

Semi-Pro
Feels like distributing the prize money differently should have been an easier task than moving the 5th most important tennis tournament of the year, out of tennis' ancestral home, as well as orchestrating the removal of a very popular president. Those are material changes.
If things can improve further, why stop there? Even your take has evolved within this thread, so PTPA can only help progress further. Let’s keep an open mind, shall we?
 
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