Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
There was nothing in the ATP to stop him either.
PTPA is going to hurt Novak BIG TIME
- Thread starter 40-15 still haunts me
- Start date
There was nothing in the ATP to stop him either.
You're right, it does speak volumes...1) they don't care about lesser players, and 2) their foundations are in bed with the ATP and tournaments. Look at what they said last year; its consultant-fed jargon. They're pawns in the elitist game of chess....but you wouldn't know considering your head is so far up Federer's @$$.
It's pathetic how desperate you're getting and trying to use tennis talk forums as therapy sessions for your mental issues. Go see a real therapist instead of trying to manipulate others to make yourself feel better.
Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Here is the thing. Fed and Rafa have put so much money in these guys' pockets already and that is what no one seems to acknowledge. Without Fedal over the last 15 years, the purses would not have grown the way they did. The TV rights wouldn't pay as much. So think about that before we scold Federer and Nadal for not simply saying "Yes Novak whatever you want is great".
Maybe, as by far the most well regarded players in the game, we should think about why they aren't hopping on Novak's supposedly noble quest for more equality in the sport. (Which still doesn't include the women)
Karma Tennis
Legend
With the ATP controlling most of what the men’s game is today, I have a feeling Novak could be fined heavily/ disciplined and be potentially denied access to certain tournaments including majors. Imagine Novak going to the US Open for the CYGS and getting sanctioned and refused acess to play by the ATP
The Four Majors are ITF Events that are run by the relevant National Tennis Associations.
IIRC, the ATP and WTA cannot ban / prevent any player from playing in the Majors. That is up to the ITF. However, the ATP and WTA can advise its members not to play in those events as a form of protest.
What is the likelihood that the ITF would prevent the #1 Player in the world from playing in any of the Majors? Especially in a situation where that player is in a position to complete the GRAND SLAM?
Again IIRC, Djokovic has approached various female players and invited them to join his intiative.
Djokovic says he spoke to Serena about PA
Novak Djokovic said he has been speaking to top female tennis pros, including Serena Williams, about the players' association that he and Vasek Pospisil founded.
MichaelNadal
Bionic Poster
Tucker has some serious issues.
Unlike you i don't have multiple troll accounts
Novichok
Professional
Though I support giving lower ranked players their due, PTPA seems to be a power-grabbing attention-seeking move, and Djoko is in it with the sole motive of bolstering his legacy and popularity. He just doesn't want to break all the records, he wants to be seen as next Jack Kramer, Billie Jean King and Arthur Ashe. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Rosstour
Talk Tennis Guru
Again IIRC, Djokovic has approached various female players and invited them to join his intiative.
Djokovic says he spoke to Serena about PA
Novak Djokovic said he has been speaking to top female tennis pros, including Serena Williams, about the players' association that he and Vasek Pospisil founded.www.espn.com
He claimed to have talked to Serena and that's the only name he mentioned. Barty and another female pro were asked if Djokovic had talked to them about it and they said he hadn't.
If you take everything Djokovic says and does at face value, he's an amazing person who doesn't have a selfish or negative bone in his body and is just out there doing things for everyone else.
Novak is already doing much more than what Fedal even dreamt of doing in leadership roles.
When the World # 1 is trying to use his voice and position to speak for the unheard lower rank players, it shows his character and commitment for the players and Tennis in general.
Its already well known that many Pro players don't make enough money for a living playing Tennis.
If this continues, things shall only get worse once Big 3 retire and there shall be a drop off in the interest levels in general which could affect revenues. Its important that the players themselves have an organisation and voice which makes them heard.
Anyone who started this initiative should be massively appreciated and even more so when it's Djokovic coz he is the World # 1 and he could have easily sided with the establishment banking in the rewards, records and glory. And despite getting no support from the two most popular players in Tennis, he is still pushing forward relentlessly.
My respect for this man has only massively increased and am sure the players shall appreciate the efforts even more notwithstanding some establishment pets.
When the World # 1 is trying to use his voice and position to speak for the unheard lower rank players, it shows his character and commitment for the players and Tennis in general.
Its already well known that many Pro players don't make enough money for a living playing Tennis.
If this continues, things shall only get worse once Big 3 retire and there shall be a drop off in the interest levels in general which could affect revenues. Its important that the players themselves have an organisation and voice which makes them heard.
Anyone who started this initiative should be massively appreciated and even more so when it's Djokovic coz he is the World # 1 and he could have easily sided with the establishment banking in the rewards, records and glory. And despite getting no support from the two most popular players in Tennis, he is still pushing forward relentlessly.
My respect for this man has only massively increased and am sure the players shall appreciate the efforts even more notwithstanding some establishment pets.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Why is Popsipil involved? He does not have the temperament. This malcontent threw a tantrum on the Miami court after a difficult meeting with the ATP head and took it out on the poor chair umpire. Dunderhead Popsipil does not understand that it is only business.
New competent leadership required!
A Miami Open star threatened to sue tennis' governing body and called its chairman a 'f---ing a--hole' during a foul-mouthed on-court rant
Last year, Pospisil and world No.1 Novak Djokovic launched a new players' association to rival the ATP that aims to increase the power of players.
www.insider.com
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Lol stop your Fed bulling tactics...Federer when he was a regular feature in the councils was Vocal about low wages to early round losers. The 1st round losers will get 50k £ as pay check which double of what they used to get in 2015.
ATP has done great improvement on that side. This PTPA is nothing but a unique way to snatch sponsors from ATP and generate enough revenue to feed its Founding Fathers and stake holders.
Karma Tennis
Legend
You can apply that to any human being though. People use their own criteria for creating opinions.
However, I'm not averse to seeing people - particularly those with high profiles - shake the tree a bit.
Players like Federer and Nadal have had an excellent run. I can understand their reticense in aligning themselves with Djokovic.
But simply criticising him and coming out saying the status quo is fine is not good enough afaic. If they really want to give back to the sport that has rewarded them so richly, they should be much more active in their positions trying to change things from the "inside". But they sit on their hands espousing the view that change takes time ... which suits their agenda perfectly. They have all the time and money they want. Rocking the boat doesn't serve their interests. Which makes Djokovic's view all the more compelling and possibly more sincere too.
Karma Tennis
Legend
LOL. Federer was vocal to the point that HIS personal situation was not impacted. He has always held the view that the best players should be richly rewarded. And he has also inferred that any player that wants more money needs to improve their game and win more matches.
If guys like Federer and Nadal were really true to such cause ... they would simply come out and agree to these things ...
-No Appearance money payments
-Prize money for SF and Finalists at Majors and ATP 1000 Events should be halved. The remainder should be distributed to the earlier rounds of the Tournament and Qualifying Events.
-Seeding Systems should be standardised to 16 Seeds per 128 Player event, 8 Seeds per 64 Player event.
-Endorsement money should be capped. More players should receive endorsement money.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
Fed went and to Doha and collected his millions in appearance fees from the Doha Oil Sheikhs. You wish to outlaw this?
That is not how capitalism works. Players are free to negotiate with their sponsor. It is a private matter.
Karma Tennis
Legend
I would rather they sent those millions of dollars to Australia where they could be used to support the grass root levels of tennis development here
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
I would rather they sent those millions of dollars to Australia where they could be used to support the grass root levels of tennis development here
The problem with Australia is that there are no public courts. We have thousands of free public courts. Even in the ghettoes. You guys need to get your act together.
3 RG out of the next 5 at the age of 35 when he already looks broke in 2021. What you been smoking player ?But , noone should take Rafa lightly .
He will come back harder .
The slam race between Djokodal won't be a straight easy affair for either of the two .
They will fight for next two years at all slams .
Also , Rafa can win 3 more RGs in next 5 years . So Djoker needs to win atleast 5 slams more to stay ahead in slam race which is not easy
Karma Tennis
Legend
Then you end up in the situation where Capitalism takes precedence over everything else and it eventually destroys individual participant sports. Which sort of explains why tennis is declining in popularity in many parts of the world in favour of team based sports - certainly the case here in Australia.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Public Courts no longer work in Australia due to societal reasons. They could never supply enough public courts to avert the arguments and fighting that goes on between people who want to get access to the court. Also, constant vandalism of public facilities in this country means it is not financially practical for governments to continuosly fund facilities like tennis courts which are expensive to maintain.
The Club System here is very affordable for pretty much anyone, so public facilities aren't required to serve those less well off.
The main challenge is not the facilities. It is the pathways provided for aspiring tennis players, particularly junior ones. They are a total shambles. And that is primarily due to the national associaition's inability to think outside the square and be creative in attracting and keeping people playing the sport. (Example, EVERY officially sanctioned Junior Tournament that is conducted in Australia requires the Tournament Organiser to pay a significant fee to Tennis Australia for the privilege. For the most part TA's direct involvement in the actual tournament is nil!)
Also, the main competitors to tennis here, Australian Rules Football, Rugby Cricket, Basketball and Netball are heavily subsidised by their respective national bodies. And being team sports, the pathways for juniors are a lot clearer. The prospects of a decent junior getting to Pro levels in those sports is much greater and costs a lot less than to do so in Tennis.
Anyway, how does Novak's PTPA help all of this. Well it pretty much doesn't until it could apply some sort of leverage to local situations. T'hat would require high profile players to be involved. And at the current time Australia has virtually no high profile Male players on the Tour. Surprise! Surprise!
Bartelby
Bionic Poster
The separation of passive from active recreation means that gobbling up public parks with courts is no longer policy.
Here tennis takes place mainly in clubs or centres with a manager and shop. It works well even if we could use more.
Free public courts usually means badly maintained courts, but I would say that tennis court hire could be a little cheaper.
Here tennis takes place mainly in clubs or centres with a manager and shop. It works well even if we could use more.
Free public courts usually means badly maintained courts, but I would say that tennis court hire could be a little cheaper.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
We proposed a distribution of endorsement earnings but Bart said these players are independent contractors and are entitled to keep their endorsement earnings all to themselves.
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
The Parks And Rec Dept maintain the hard courts but they are very slow. Takes years to fix cracks. Slow and inefficient as is typical of government bureaucracies. Glad you finally understand this.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Court Hire does not need to be cheaper! It should be <No Charge> for the first few hours. After that, the hirer should be invited to join the pertinent Tennis Club for a heavily discounted fee. And then the ongoing Club Membership should be heavily subsidised. The discounts and subsidies should be provided by Tennis Australia.
Apart from a few execptional clubs that maintain signficiant facilities (eg. Kooyong TC, Royal South Yarra Lawn), every tennis club should charge a standardisd flat membership fee based on the number of courts at the facility.
In the area I live, there are 10 Tennis Clubs within a 5km radius. Their Adult membership fees range from $50 USD to $200 USD. The tennis courts themselves are basically the same. The main differences are the number of courts and the standard of the Club House.
Again, back to the PTPA discussion. The differences in various tennis clubs in Australia is huge. This is not the case with many other sports here. Any active player association could advocate for making tennis facilities adhere to a decent basic standard in order to remove a lot of the perceived "elitisim" associated with the sport of tennis here.
Endorsement earnings should be transparent. Their details should be publically available. And the ITF, ATP, WTA should be able to receive a percentage cut of those earnings to plough back into the sport.
Without the sport itself, the players could not participate, be successful, and generate income from endorsement earnings. Hence, it makes sense for the Sport itself to charge players for providing them with the opportunity to do so.
(Eg. If a player receives a 10 Million dollars endorsement contract, a percentage of that money ... say 30% ... is paid to the ITF Global Tennis Development Fund ... and that money is then distributed in a way that will benefit the Sport. The players "contributing" to the fund are entitled to have a say as to where the money should be distributed and why.)
Forehanderer
Professional
Why does Djokovic bring this issue up now when he could focus on CYGS more. He could have waited till the end of the year. I can sense Djokovic is arrogant in assuming there are no competitors who can take him out. That's why he can talk for 50 minutes on this when Wimbledon is right on the plate.
Also PTPA's objectives are fuzzy. Just by saying lower ranked players need to be paid more is not enough. They have to come up with a plan to make this happen. What's the deal with an investor joining in the PTPA. Investors invest to reap rewards. That is the true nature of investing. Looks like PTPA is not so straight forward as it seems.
And why is the PTPA only accept players upto 350 ranking. What about 700-800 and unranked players. These players are earning close to minimum wage and even losing money. Watch these videos about the reality of player earnings. These players need more help than the 250 ranked player. PTPA is never going to succeed until it makes clear what its true objectives are.
Those lower ranked players who trust a namby pamby organization like PTPA will only get the ire from ATP and not get any tennis opportunities. In essence, this will make PTPA's main goal null and void. For the time being, I would suggest the lower ranked players stay with ATP until PTPA sets its objectives on stone. This looks more like a union where the employees are screwed because of lack of work because of plant shutdowns and the situation is used by the leaders of the union to make money.
While Djokovic fans show the greed of Fedal, they don't assume "the child from God" can do such things. A child from God is a term to mimic Jesus which in christian theology is deemed to be an antichrist. Welcome to a new form of hero worship. The media call these people GOAT for a reason and the unwashed fans believe it. Worshiping a goat is form of satan worship lol.
Also PTPA's objectives are fuzzy. Just by saying lower ranked players need to be paid more is not enough. They have to come up with a plan to make this happen. What's the deal with an investor joining in the PTPA. Investors invest to reap rewards. That is the true nature of investing. Looks like PTPA is not so straight forward as it seems.
And why is the PTPA only accept players upto 350 ranking. What about 700-800 and unranked players. These players are earning close to minimum wage and even losing money. Watch these videos about the reality of player earnings. These players need more help than the 250 ranked player. PTPA is never going to succeed until it makes clear what its true objectives are.
Those lower ranked players who trust a namby pamby organization like PTPA will only get the ire from ATP and not get any tennis opportunities. In essence, this will make PTPA's main goal null and void. For the time being, I would suggest the lower ranked players stay with ATP until PTPA sets its objectives on stone. This looks more like a union where the employees are screwed because of lack of work because of plant shutdowns and the situation is used by the leaders of the union to make money.
While Djokovic fans show the greed of Fedal, they don't assume "the child from God" can do such things. A child from God is a term to mimic Jesus which in christian theology is deemed to be an antichrist. Welcome to a new form of hero worship. The media call these people GOAT for a reason and the unwashed fans believe it. Worshiping a goat is form of satan worship lol.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
Again you are the ignorant one and they are the ones who put in the efforts, why don’t we trust them but you?
CCPass
Semi-Pro
Why now? Why not now?
Everything is about fan wars it’s like nothing else matters to you guys. It’s tiring but luckily they are not there to convince you guys - they are there to actually help players.
Forehanderer
Professional
How can you say this with certainty. Even communism states its there to help poor workers. Did the workers benefit in USSR and China
Karma Tennis
Legend
I think you are actually asking the wrong question.
You should be saying ... "Why doesn't Djokovic focus on the CYGS and worry about the PTPA and the end of the year?"
But I think you deliberately avoid framing the question that way because it doesn't suit your agenda
The obvious answer to that more obvious question is .... He raises the issue now because it is more important to him than the GRAND SLAM is. That's not to say the GRAND SLAM isn't important to him, just the PTPA is more important at this time.That actually frames him as less selfish and less arrogant than others. Of course, that doesn't suit your agenda for the obvious reason
You do not see the bigger picture. Again it doesn't suit your agenda.
The players up to 350 are the ones most likely to make a career out of Pro Tennis. So they are the most likely to benefit from this initiative.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
At least they increase leverage for the players collectively that’s already happening so it’s a certainty.
Comparing this to communism is desperate and not a good look on you - helping players to get their fair share so that they can earn a living playing the sport is justice not any -ism.
Karma Tennis
Legend
I agree. But the Elites always tend to bunch the workers in with the Left. That's what allows the Elites to retain power over the workers.
It's probably fair to say that Djokovic derives from a much less Elitist background than many of his peers do. So he can probably empathise a lot more with those who have always had less.
Forehanderer
Professional
My comparison is to show you that not all things said in pretty words doesn't mean good things happen as a result. I don't care about how good my words look on TTW
or any place dude. You must be insecure if you happen to be that way. Other stuff you typed is the same old drivel I've seen many a time.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
Okay - just to genuinely point it out that there have already been actions taken - so not just pretty words. Keep an open mind.My comparison is to show you that not all things said in pretty words doesn't mean good things happen as a result. I don't care about how good my words look on TTW
Forehanderer
Professional
I think you are actually asking the wrong question.
You should be saying ... "Why doesn't Djokovic focus on the CYGS and worry about the PTPA and the end of the year?"
But I think you deliberately avoid framing the question that way because it doesn't suit your agenda
The obvious answer to that more obvious question is .... He raises the issue now because it is more important to him than the GRAND SLAM is. That's not to say the GRAND SLAM isn't important to him, just the PTPA is more important at this time.That actually frames him as less selfish and less arrogant than others. Of course, that doesn't suit your agenda for the obvious reason
You do not see the bigger picture. Again it doesn't suit your agenda.
The players up to 350 are the ones most likely to make a career out of Pro Tennis. So they are the most likely to benefit from this initiative.
Only a Djokovic fan would say that
How naive you are? Such naivety is only seen in hero worship where the fan sees his idol as born from God and his excrement doesn't smell. Regarding my question, you're not a mind read are you? I could care less about what you think about me or my "agenda" ok.
CCPass
Semi-Pro
If you still can’t see things beyond fan wars, it’s true that the discussion with you is pointless and nobody should care.Only a Djokovic fan would say that
Forehanderer
Professional
Tell me what actions have been taken. my mind is open but I don't suffer fools gladly
CCPass
Semi-Pro
If you are genuinely interested, you would have already known. I’m out.
Forehanderer
Professional
His opinion is biased because of his fanhood. Who said anything about fan wars.
Forehanderer
Professional
So you have no proof about any actions that have been taken. Good to know that.
Karma Tennis
Legend
Only a Djokovic fan would say that
Difference between you and me based on your response ...
You are clearly a Federer fanatic.
I'm actually a fan of the sport. I like all three of the Big 3. So sorry to disappoint you.
But none of them come close to Laver or Borg as true tennis players who respect the traditions of the sport itself and achieved a level of "Greatness" that the current three can only dream about. And none of them ever will.
And you are right .. I don't care about what you think ...or your agenda. You are just yet another whinging Federer fan who cannot accept that his achievements, great as they are, are in the process of being superceded.
Here's a tip ... instead of focusing on Federer the tennis player ... why not focus on Federer the person. That way, when his records are finally broken ... you will be able to move on. LOL.
Laver and Borg's achievements (for the most part) were superceded long long ago. And yet they are still widely admired and venerated by true fans of the sport.
Forehanderer
Professional
You're projecting your own fanaticism on me pal. That won't work. I saw your "balanced" posts about Djokovic and PTPA. Gimme a break
I could care less about Federer the person. I only watch sports for the play. You should know that since you are such a "great fan of the sport". But alas your claim of watching Borg and Laver was already discredited long ago by another poster. So all you could do is write an essay about me. Thanks for the attention 
CCPass
Semi-Pro
I actually hope you would care even less especially on topics you have zero knowledge about.You're projecting your own fanaticism on me pal. That won't work. I saw your "balanced" posts about Djokovic and PTPA. Gimme a break
Forehanderer
Professional
Thanks for the wishes and insults. Shows you are a true fan of the sport and a wise old man who followed Borg and LaverAnd the winner of the BIGGEST IDIOT AWARD goes too ....
The poster who claims he is not a Federer fanatic ... yet has the TTW User Name .... Forehanderer.
Enough. You are an idiot. Total waste of time engaging with 20 year old kids who think the sport began in the year 2000 and are gullible enough to take the word of other 20 year old posters because it suits their agendas.
Enjoy your evening.
. If there is anyone in this thread acting juvenile, its you. Again stop projecting You didn't answer my question about the actions taken by PTPA. Don't work around it. You said you were out but why are you still here
Karma Tennis
Legend
Thanks for the wishes and insults. Shows you are a true fan of the sport and a wise old man who followed Borg and Laver
LOL.
You adopt the standard modus operandi of all Federer fanatics. You basically attack anyone who doesn't agree with your pov. And then in attempt to deflect any reasonable discussion to point out Federer's weaknessess, you label your adversaries "Djokovic fans" as if they could not possibly admire or respect any other player on the tour.
Continue to make yourself look foolish with your obvious inability to comprehend that if someone is a Laver fan or a Borg fan that they are likely to admire those players more than any of the modern players. So any debate regarding the merits of the modern Big 3 is moot when it comes to any sort of subjective assessment.
Given you have trawled though TTW in an attempt to "profile" me simply demonstrates your desperation. Look through enough of my posts here and anyone with half a brain can clearly see that I have good things to say about all of the Big 3. They will also see that I am consistent in my opinion that Laver is the GOAT and Borg did things none of the modern players have acheived. Hence my fondness for both of those players being much greater than any fondness I have for any of the Big 3.
Your feeble attempts to attack with your sarcastic references to "wise old men" is yet another example of how disrespectful you are of the sport of tennis itself - a common characteristic of Federer fanatics such as yourself who believe the sport begins and ends with one single player. A player, who it should be noted, shed tears in front of Rod Laver at the end of an AO Final, disrespecting both Laver and the fellow who beat him that night ... some guy called Nadal !!!
You would think given all that Federer (and Nadal for that matter) have gained from the sport, they would actually be very active in giving back to the sport in a way that benefits others involved in the sport in an unconditional manner. But they simply adopt the same smug position they have always had because it protects their interests first. At least Djokovic, for all his failings, sees beyond that. In my book, that simple action shows more respect for the sport of tennis than the other two ever did.
Like I said .. Enjoy your Evening !!!
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Forehanderer
Professional
Maybe you should enjoy yours rather than being so butthurt over some ttw post. Your post says that you are a juvenile not someone who has watched Borg and Laver. Again stop projectingYou are a peanut.
You adopt the standard modus operandi of all Federer fanatics. You basically attack anyone who doesn't agree with your pov. And then in attempt to deflect any reasonable discussion to point out Federer's weaknessess, you label your adversaries "Djokovic fans" as if they could not possibly admire or respect any other player on the tour.
You continue to make yourself look foolish with your obvious inability to comprehend that if someone is a Laver fan or a Borg fan that they are likely to admire those players more than any of the modern players. So any debate regarding the merits of the modern Big 3 is moot when it comes to any sort of subjective assessment.
And your feeble attempts to attack with your sarcastic references to "wise old men" is yet another example of how disrespectful you are of the sport of tennis itself - a common characteristic of Federer fanatics such as yourself who believe the sport begins and ends with one single player. A player, who it should be noted, shed tears in front of Rod Laver at the end of an AO Final, disrespecting both Laver and the fellow who beat him that night ... some guy called Nadal !!!
Like I said .. Enjoy your Evening !!!
Karma Tennis
Legend
Maybe you should enjoy yours rather than being so butthurt over some ttw post. Your post says that you are a juvenile not someone who has watched Borg and Laver. Again stop projecting
OK Millennial. You keep on believing!
40-15 still haunts me
Banned
Yawn
Raul_SJ
G.O.A.T.
What about the #800? Revenue sharing with the Top 350 is a good starting point. The rest of the Top 1000 have the option of quitting the Tour and earning a very comfortable living working as teaching pros.
Nobody buys a ticket to watch the #800 player.
Forehanderer
Professional
All of the Big 3 were once in the 700s. They had the support of their parents to what they are today. If Djokovic is so unselfish as is claimed by so many of his fans, he should think about those players in the 1000s who are worse off than 300s. Some of them have the potential to be world beaters but end up taking up other options. I'm not saying this should happen but since PTPA claims it has a noble goal of giving the lesser ranked players a helping hand, it should think big, no?
Ok lets say PTPA is committed to top 350. How are they going to improve their situation considering tennis is a rich man's sport. I don't see any steps being taken. All I see from some of Djokovic supporters is that the actions are being taken. If I ask them what those actions are, I get no response. So I have to come to the conclusion that PTPA is building a castle in the air at best and helping the PTPA politburo at worst.
40-15 still haunts me
Banned
Yes you were the one who offered him a cheque of 1 Million. I think the oil sheiks appointed you to do that.
Only baseless allegations without any facts.
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