PTPA is going to hurt Novak BIG TIME

T007

Hall of Fame
S
All of the Big 3 were once in the 700s. They had the support of their parents to what they are today. If Djokovic is so unselfish as is claimed by so many of his fans, he should think about those players in the 1000s who are worse off than 300s. Some of them have the potential to be world beaters but end up taking up other options. I'm not saying this should happen but since PTPA claims it has a noble goal of giving the lesser ranked players a helping hand, it should think big, no?
Ok lets say PTPA is committed to top 350. How are they going to improve their situation considering tennis is a rich man's sport. I don't see any steps being taken. All I see from some of Djokovic supporters is that the actions are being taken. If I ask them what those actions are, I get no response. So I have to come to the conclusion that PTPA is building a castle in the air at best and helping the PTPA politburo at worst.
Spot on Analysis...these fanbois will defend him till death.
 
Spot on Analysis..

The records are there for everyone to see.

The majority of players who make it into the Top 1000 in the world do not get to the Top 350. Most of them are lucky to get into the Top 500 before they drop out.

The ones that get into the Top 100 are gifted players. Anything beyond that depends on a range of variables, some within the control of the player, others not.

these fanbois will defend him till death.

LOL. Fanbois sprout meaningless subjective babble. The truth is found in the "numbers", the "records" and the "statistics".

Ploughing money into supporting players ranked between 700 and 1000 is a total waste of effort because so few of them will make it into the Top 500 let alone the Top 350.

(It would actually be better to plough truckloads of money into junior tennis players - between the ages of 10 and 15. If you get them early, you don't lose them to other sports and you have a much bigger pool of players that are more likely to make it into the Top 350 without dropping out prematurely.)

However, once they are into the Top 350, they have a reasonable chance of making it into the Top 150 with the appropriate financial support. From there, they can start thinking about actually making a career out of being a Professional Tennis player.

One has to learn to walk of their own accord before they can think about running.
 

T007

Hall of Fame
The records are there for everyone to see.

The majority of players who make it into the Top 1000 in the world do not get to the Top 350. Most of them are lucky to get into the Top 500 before they drop out.

The ones that get into the Top 100 are gifted players. Anything beyond that depends on a range of variables, some within the control of the player, others not.



LOL. Fanbois sprout meaningless subjective babble. The truth is found in the "numbers", the "records" and the "statistics".

Ploughing money into supporting players ranked between 700 and 1000 is a total waste of effort because so few of them will make it into the Top 500 let alone the Top 350.

(It would actually be better to plough truckloads of money into junior tennis players - between the ages of 10 and 15. If you get them early, you don't lose them to other sports and you have a much bigger pool of players that are more likely to make it into the Top 350 without dropping out prematurely.)

However, once they are into the Top 350, they have a reasonable chance of making it into the Top 150 with the appropriate financial support. From there, they can start thinking about actually making a career out of being a Professional Tennis player.

One has to learn to walk of their own accord before they can think about running.
Tennis is a sports not charity...there are officials and staffs who run a tournament and they too need to be paid. So considering that slams paying around 50k £ from 1st round losers is great.

PTPAs intention to replace ATP is only for the lucrative sponsor deals nothing else. What is the guarantee that PTPA will fulfill its promise?? Nothing...but these dividends will ruin tennis and its atmosphere.

Why pospisil suddenly had a social awakening out of nowwhere....he knows he doesn't has any big future in tennis so he is trying to make money out of this new collaboration.
 
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T007

Hall of Fame
Tournaments are not fools to pay them that amount cos they attract more packed houses and it will help the event to generate more revenue from sponsors and ticket sales.
 

CCPass

Semi-Pro
Tennis is asports not charity...there are officials and staffs who run a tournament and they too need to be paid. So considering that slams paying around 50k £ from 1st round losers is great.

PTPAs intention to replaces ATP is only for the lucrative sponsor deals nothing else. What is the guarantee that PTPA will fulfill its promise?? Nothing but these dividends will ruin tennis and its atmosphere.

Why pospisil suddenly had a social awakening out of nowwhere....he knows he doesn't has any big future in tennis so he is trying to make money out of this new collabration.
Misinformed and ignorant, you should care less about topics you have zero knowledge about.
 

Forehanderer

Professional
Tennis is asports not charity...there are officials and staffs who run a tournament and they too need to be paid. So considering that slams paying around 50k £ from 1st round losers is great.

PTPAs intention to replaces ATP is only for the lucrative sponsor deals nothing else. What is the guarantee that PTPA will fulfill its promise?? Nothing but these dividends will ruin tennis and its atmosphere.

Why pospisil suddenly had a social awakening out of nowwhere....he knows he doesn't has any big future in tennis so he is trying to make money out of this new collabration.
Your response will fall into deaf ears. This poster is no wise old man who has watched Borg and laver. He is just a juvenile Djokofan who will defend his man to death. No need to engage in long posts with this guy. Those who are fanatic cannot be argued with.
Your theory is probable. PTPA hasn't declared any of their objectives. just by saying lower ranked players need to be paid is meaningless unless a course of action is put out to the public. Djoko fans here have said actions have been taken but show no proof of them.
 
Tennis is asports not charity...there are officials and staffs who run a tournament and they too need to be paid. So considering that slams paying around 50k £ from 1st round losers is great.

Modern Professional Tennis is a BUSINESS. Sport is just the vehicle to promote the business.

The Prize money paid to players comes from Tournament Sponsors and the pertinent National Tennis Associations.

PTPAs intention to replaces ATP is only for the lucrative sponsor deals nothing else. What is the guarantee that PTPA will fulfill its promise?? Nothing but these dividends will ruin tennis and its atmosphere.

Could be. Too early to say.

However, it is clear that the ATP favours the Top 20 players over everyone else. The Top 20 players have far more clout than the 300 odd players below them. If an alternative changed that, it could be a worthy initiative.

Tournaments are not fools to pay them that amount cos they attract more packed houses and it will help the event to generate more revenue from sponsors and ticket sales.

I don't think the major issue is paying draw cards appearance monies. The major issue is the amount of money that is paid and the conditions that it is paid under.

Federer received a huge appearance fee to play AO2021 and he pulled out. What happened to that money?


"Appearance fees only serve to further the dynamic in tennis where the rich get richer, and the pot is smaller for the workaday players who rely on prize money to fund their careers. And in addition to further skewing the economics of the sport, they also emphasise that the sport revolves around a few stars and overshadow what makes it great: the variety of the field and the travelling circus of personalities."

"Tennis isn’t one player, or three. If the PTPA is serious about addressing inequality in the sport and providing more economic opportunities for lower-ranked players, Djokovic can put his money where his mouth is and lead the call to end appearance fees."


I imagine this would be a great starting point for Djokovic and his PTPA. However, I don't have a lot of faith in his ability to change that model. In that way, Djokovic and Federer (and Nadal for that matter) are all in the same camp.

There is an old "Australian" saying ... "You never "defecate" in your own back yard!".
 

CCPass

Semi-Pro
Your response will fall into deaf ears. This poster is no wise old man who has watched Borg and laver. He is just a juvenile Djokofan who will defend his man to death. No need to engage in long posts with this guy. Those who are fanatic cannot be argued with.
Your theory is probable. PTPA hasn't declared any of their objectives. just by saying lower ranked players need to be paid is meaningless unless a course of action is put out to the public. Djoko fans here have said actions have been taken but show no proof of them.
PTPA has been formed, majority of players have signed and a press conference that addressed reporters’ questions has recently been held - still there’s no action, only talks according to you guys. Don’t pretend you are interested please. All you care about is Fed is GOAT Djokovic is bad. Just shut up.
 

MichaelNadal

Bionic Poster
Is this really the most interesting thing going on right now?

5e592114fee23d3ce26b4a76
 

Forehanderer

Professional
PTPA has been formed, majority of players have signed and a press conference that addressed reporters’ questions has recently been held - still there’s no action, only talks according to you guys. Don’t pretend you are interested please. All you care about is Fed is GOAT Djokovic is bad. Just shut up.
:-D Too bad this isn't a communist forum. so no bueno amigo. What happened to you saying you are going out of this thread. Why still stay here 8-B
 

Raul_SJ

G.O.A.T.
Ok lets say PTPA is committed to top 350. How are they going to improve their situation considering tennis is a rich man's sport.

Right now under the ATP, the #150 player may barely just be breaking even. The PTPA will re-distribute the wealth so that the Top 350 are living comfortably.

Any prospective player that cannot break the Top 350 by age 20 probably does not belong on the Tour in the first place.
 

Forehanderer

Professional
If things can improve further, why stop there? Even your take has evolved within this thread, so PTPA can only help progress further. Let’s keep an open mind, shall we?
Again you are the ignorant one and they are the ones who put in the efforts, why don’t we trust them but you?
Okay - just to genuinely point it out that there have already been actions taken - so not just pretty words. Keep an open mind.
If you are genuinely interested, you would have already known. I’m out.
I actually hope you would care even less especially on topics you have zero knowledge about.
Misinformed and ignorant, you should care less about topics you have zero knowledge about.
@T007 Look at these posts. its like talking to a bot. same old stuff. If we question PTPA, you are ignorant and shouldn't discuss topics you have no knowledge about and keep an open mind on PTPA :-D
 
Every player wants to play a Slam. Why is Melbourne paying a player to show up?

Because the CEO of Tennis Australia was, is, and always will be a Federer fanatic :)

That same CEO dreams of being the President of the International Tennis Federation one day and having one Roger Federer as his greatest ally would be very handy.

As to what happened, presumably Fed never got paid.

Do you think he provided his image to Tennis Australia to promote AO 2021 gratis ?
 

Forehanderer

Professional
Right now under the ATP, the #150 player may barely just be breaking even. The PTPA will re-distribute the wealth so that the Top 350 are living comfortably.

Any prospective player that cannot break the Top 350 by age 20 probably does not belong on the Tour in the first place.
Good. So how are they going to do it. Are they gonna take a cut off of the prize money and willing to participate for lesser amounts. Are they gonna stop taking appearance checks from the individual events. There is no transparency for a long time. And what is an investor doing in the advisory board. Don't say money wasn't his motive to join in ;)
 

Forehanderer

Professional
Because you are ignorant and close-minded. If you are seriously interested, at least put in the minimum efforts to learn the basics about the topic. Clearly you didn’t so my comments are perfectly justified. Happy to be proven wrong.
It says you are a new user but you sound like an old troll lol
 

Forehanderer

Professional
Because the CEO of Tennis Australia was, is, and always will be a Federer fanatic :)

That same CEO dreams of being the President of the International Tennis Federation one day and having one Roger Federer as his greatest ally would be very handy.



Do you think he provided his image to Tennis Australia to promote AO 2021 gratis ?
Proven that you are nole fanatic :p
 
Is there an echo in the room?

Novak's appearence fee was almost as much as Roger's. I imagine Rafa's was in a similar ball park but probably less than Novak's.

Point is ... none of them needed it. And if they really cared about the "lesser" players, they would all have suggested to Mr. Tiley that he keep the money and allocate it to the Qualifiers.
 

CCPass

Semi-Pro
Good. So how are they going to do it. Are they gonna take a cut off of the prize money and willing to participate for lesser amounts. Are they gonna stop taking appearance checks from the individual events. There is no transparency for a long time. And what is an investor doing in the advisory board. Don't say money wasn't his motive to join in ;)
They are planning to negotiate with ATP - at this stage they have built the leverage necessary to force a discussion. So leave the how to the experts, shall we?
 

Forehanderer

Professional
Which is negotiation 101 - if you want the details, there are plenty of materials online.
before that, can you explain what is PTPA's objectives. I have done a google search found nothing on their objectives just imhotep's picture. Enlighten us, the misinformed fedal fans ;)
 
All the power of the internet at one's disposal ... I guess you have to know how to use the internet in order to harness it's power ...


"First and foremost, it is important to state that the PTPA wants to work collaboratively with all of the tennis governing bodies and to inspire collective reform that will better the sport. Reform includes ensuring the players are fairly represented in all matters that affect their ability to compete, make fair wages, and those that involve their health and welfare."

"Building an equitable and sustainable competitive environment for players today, and for generations to come."


The ATP has had nearly 50 years to achieve this and seemingly failed. Any organisation that can hold it to account, especially a player based one, is not without merit.

Of course, the fanatics will always stick with their prejudices no matter the cost.

Fortunately, the world is leaving the prejudiced behind. Won't happen over-night but it will happen :)
 

RelentlessAttack

Hall of Fame
Tucker (and FOX News) is entertaining business, not the source of the News. They have a large following in the USA and make tons of $$ selling people conspiracy theories over and over....

What people imagine “news” to be (ie some relatively unbiased reporting of true events as they are) doesn’t exist and has never existed and can never exist, especially in the realm of politics. Check out the headlines of Napoleon’s march on Paris
 
Modern Professional Tennis is a BUSINESS. Sport is just the vehicle to promote the business.

The Prize money paid to players comes from Tournament Sponsors and the pertinent National Tennis Associations.



Could be. Too early to say.

However, it is clear that the ATP favours the Top 20 players over everyone else. The Top 20 players have far more clout than the 300 odd players below them. If an alternative changed that, it could be a worthy initiative.



I don't think the major issue is paying draw cards appearance monies. The major issue is the amount of money that is paid and the conditions that it is paid under.

Federer received a huge appearance fee to play AO2021 and he pulled out. What happened to that money?


"Appearance fees only serve to further the dynamic in tennis where the rich get richer, and the pot is smaller for the workaday players who rely on prize money to fund their careers. And in addition to further skewing the economics of the sport, they also emphasise that the sport revolves around a few stars and overshadow what makes it great: the variety of the field and the travelling circus of personalities."

"Tennis isn’t one player, or three. If the PTPA is serious about addressing inequality in the sport and providing more economic opportunities for lower-ranked players, Djokovic can put his money where his mouth is and lead the call to end appearance fees."


I imagine this would be a great starting point for Djokovic and his PTPA. However, I don't have a lot of faith in his ability to change that model. In that way, Djokovic and Federer (and Nadal for that matter) are all in the same camp.

There is an old "Australian" saying ... "You never "defecate" in your own back yard!".


they key quote from that article is this :

"The unspoken part of this is the appearance fee they negotiated and what it takes from the total prize money offered to other players. If Stuttgart’s clay tournament is any indication, the $2m they budget for appearance fees eats up what would otherwise be on the table for player prize money."


the assumption is that the appearance fee is taken from the total prize money, but there is no evidence that is it.

i don't know why people just assume you can just cancel appearance fees and spread it out to everyone else as if that is a viable business. if there is no appearance fee, then you can't guarantee that a top draw with show. without a top draw, you don't sell as many tickets, merch, etc. and without those sales there is no extra money to spread out amongst the competitors.
 

nov

Hall of Fame
What i dont understand, why Djokovic doing these things?He wont change anything, just make problems for himself. Hes supposed to play tennis and win tournaments, thats what he should care about, especially now.
 
i don't know why people just assume you can just cancel appearance fees and spread it out to everyone else as if that is a viable business. if there is no appearance fee, then you can't guarantee that a top draw with show. without a top draw, you don't sell as many tickets, merch, etc. and without those sales there is no extra money to spread out amongst the competitors.

No Tournament organiser can guarantee top draw with show.

I don't know what goes on in other parts of the world ... but when one purchases tickets for the Australian Open, they are purchasing tickets for a particular Session of Play. There is absolutely no guarantee of which players will be competiting during that session.

Many people purchased tickets to ATP Cup 2021 and AO 2021 because Federer was heavily promoted as one of the entrants. He pulled out of both of those tournaments three weeks before the Events. No Refunds were offered to Ticket Holders. (In the case of the ATP Cup, Federer was heavily promoted to represent Switzerland. So people bought tickets specifically because they believed Federer was going to be playing.)

In 2021, paying players huge appearence fees is a disgrace. Pro. Tennis is entertaining enough with a wide range of players now competing. It is no longer just about the Big 3. The sport has moved on. The fans of the sport will attend regardless of who is competiting.
 
No Tournament organiser can guarantee top draw with show.

I don't know what goes on in other parts of the world ... but when one purchases tickets for the Australian Open, they are purchasing tickets for a particular Session of Play. There is absolutely no guarantee of which players will be competiting during that session.

Many people purchased tickets to ATP Cup 2021 and AO 2021 because Federer was heavily promoted as one of the entrants. He pulled out of both of those tournaments three weeks before the Events. No Refunds were offered to Ticket Holders. (In the case of the ATP Cup, Federer was heavily promoted to represent Switzerland. So people bought tickets specifically because they believed Federer was going to be playing.)

In 2021, paying players huge appearence fees is a disgrace. Pro. Tennis is entertaining enough with a wide range of players now competing. It is no longer just about the Big 3. The sport has moved on. The fans of the sport will attend regardless of who is competiting.


but were not talking about the AO or ATP Cup. ...those are events that sell themselves. were talking about the smaller non-mandatory events that need star power to make a profit. when star players are confirmed for a tourney, tickets remaining tend to get purchased, so no, appearance fees are not a disgrace, but are crucial to making events viable.
 
were talking about the smaller non-mandatory events that need star power to make a profit. when star players are confirmed for a tourney, tickets remaining tend to get purchased, so no, appearance fees are not a disgrace, but are crucial to making events viable.

A top player is more likely to withdraw from a smaller tournament than they are from a Major, 1000 or 500 event.

If any particular event needs to expend appearance money to make it viable ... perhaps it should not be being staged in the first place.

(BTW, I have no issue with appearance fees if people who have purchased tickets and / or expended a lot of money to attend the tournament - eg travel and accomodation costs - are refunded in full if the player rescinds on their commitment to play.)
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Some very very rich people are backing it. You do know what it means, don't you?

it means that these very rich people have their interest in this, and their interest is probably very different from the interest of the players ranked below top 200 who are bleeding cash every day
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
-Endorsement money should be capped. More players should receive endorsement money.

this point is rather utopian

if Nike or Adidas will have to pay less to Roger and Rafa, that does NOT translate into these companies paying more money to other players
they will rather use that budget for MKT, or pay it out in form of dividends to the shareholders

and how do you see ATP / ITF capping endorsement money which privately owned companies are willing to throw at players?
 
if Nike or Adidas will have to pay less to Roger and Rafa, that does NOT translate into these companies paying more money to other players
they will rather use that budget for MKT, or pay it out in form of dividends to the shareholders

And what is wrong with that? At least the money gets distributed to more people.

and how do you see ATP / ITF capping endorsement money which privately owned companies are willing to throw at players?

By regulating that players are not permitted to do deals directly with those Private companies.

All monies that are exchanged between private entities and Professional Tennis players must occur via the ITF and the Player Associations. Those organisations take a cut of the proceeds and re-distribute them for the betterment of the sport itself. This is the most transparent method because it eliminates / minimises the chances of corruption in the sport.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
By regulating that players are not permitted to do deals directly with those Private companies.

All monies that are exchanged between private entities and Professional Tennis players must occur via the ITF and the Player Associations. Those organisations take a cut of the proceeds and re-distribute them for the betterment of the sport itself. This is the most transparent method because it eliminates / minimises the chances of corruption in the sport.

then players will be unwilling to endorse the brands, cause someone else will take the money and re-distribute them, which is precisely a solid ground for lack of transparency and corruption
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
And what is wrong with that? At least the money gets distributed to more people.

not to more, to less
shareholders of these companies are already getting their dividends
increasing dividend pay-out to the existing shareholders won't increase the amount of people that benefit from this, it will decrease the amount of people, by removing those tennis players that benefit in current system :X3:
 
Most of the private companies you speak of have hundreds to tens of thousands of shareholders. That's more than a few pro. tennis players ... who might well be shareholders of those companies anyway.
 

blablavla

G.O.A.T.
Most of the private companies you speak of have hundreds to tens of thousands of shareholders. That's more than a few pro. tennis players ... who might well be shareholders of those companies anyway.

irrelevant

mathematically speaking (shareholders + even few players) will ALWAYS be bigger than (shareholders only)
 
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