Public Tennis court etiquette

[Jst21121]

So the other day we arrived at the tennis court at 5 PM. All 6 courts were full and the sign says that if there is a wait for courts then one hour playing is courtesy for the people waiting for a court to play.

So 6 clock rolls around and there are 4 other groups waiting to play, and no one seems to be leaving…

So we go and ask the other groups how long it will be.

One group says 2-3 more hours, another group says they are in a sanctioned match, another group says “I dunno”, another group says they were the most recent on the court, another group says an hour, and another 25 more minutes.

When it was brought up that there are other people waiting and 1 hour courtesy rule was brought up, they just shrugged and said basically whatever. We ended up leaving without playing.

I’m guessing that it is what it is but is this normal among players?

 

[DeeeFoo]

I would say that their behavior is not the norm. At least, not where I live. Most people here are pretty chill and cooperative with court scheduling, so they'll usually tell you how much longer they intend to play and will work with you and people on the other courts to sort it out.

In this case, I would recommend you first contact your city, or whoever owns and runs those tennis courts. Ask for clarification on the 1-hour rule, because it can and will be interpreted differently, so it's safer to get their official stance on it. If you ever encounter people that play longer than their allotted time, then first politely ask them to leave and remind them of the court's rules. If they resist, then that's when you can threaten to call the authorities (city officials or court owners).

 

[zipplock]

If I am going to wait for a court I let the folks playing that I will be taking the court in an hour as per the posted rules. When the hour is up I'll go on the court. Folk will try and bully others by disregarding posted rules and courtesy. I'm having none of that. BTW, teaching pros given private lessons on public courts are the worst at this. I can't tell you how many I have had to kick off.

 

[eah123]

The way to do it is as soon as you arrive to ask every court where nobody else is already waiting how much longer they will be. If they tell you more than 1 hour, you remind them of the posted rule. As soon as you identify the court where people will be leaving the soonest, you let them know that you have next and wait by that court. If everybody says they just got there and it will be an hour, you let the group closest to the entrance that you have next and will let them know when the hour is up. If anybody else decides to leave earlier, you have priority on that court unless there is somebody else already waiting. You let anybody else who comes after who wants to wait for a court that you have next.

 

[5sets]

So the other day we arrived at the tennis court at 5 PM. All 6 courts were full and the sign says that if there is a wait for courts then one hour playing is courtesy for the people waiting for a court to play.

So 6 clock rolls around and there are 4 other groups waiting to play, and no one seems to be leaving…

So we go and ask the other groups how long it will be.

One group says 2-3 more hours, another group says they are in a sanctioned match, another group says “I dunno”, another group says they were the most recent on the court, another group says an hour, and another 25 more minutes.

When it was brought up that there are other people waiting and 1 hour courtesy rule was brought up, they just shrugged and said basically whatever. We ended up leaving without playing.

I’m guessing that it is what it is but is this normal among players?

Lol, I think there was literally another thread on this two weeks ago.

 

[tennis tom]

Call a social worker!

 

[5sets]

So the other day we arrived at the tennis court at 5 PM. All 6 courts were full and the sign says that if there is a wait for courts then one hour playing is courtesy for the people waiting for a court to play.

So 6 clock rolls around and there are 4 other groups waiting to play, and no one seems to be leaving…

So we go and ask the other groups how long it will be.

One group says 2-3 more hours, another group says they are in a sanctioned match, another group says “I dunno”, another group says they were the most recent on the court, another group says an hour, and another 25 more minutes.

When it was brought up that there are other people waiting and 1 hour courtesy rule was brought up, they just shrugged and said basically whatever. We ended up leaving without playing.

I’m guessing that it is what it is but is this normal among players?

I’m going to reiterate the previous thread for your sake as you haven’t seen it- the general consensus was that since there’s no one around to enforce the rules theres not much you can do. Also there was disagreement as to if your hour starts when you walk on the court or if you have an hour to play from when people start waiting. I myself just like to drive the extra ten minutes to crappy courts where there is hardly ever a wait; to each his own.

 

[sureshs]

So the other day we arrived at the tennis court at 5 PM. All 6 courts were full and the sign says that if there is a wait for courts then one hour playing is courtesy for the people waiting for a court to play.

So 6 clock rolls around and there are 4 other groups waiting to play, and no one seems to be leaving…

So we go and ask the other groups how long it will be.

One group says 2-3 more hours, another group says they are in a sanctioned match, another group says “I dunno”, another group says they were the most recent on the court, another group says an hour, and another 25 more minutes.

When it was brought up that there are other people waiting and 1 hour courtesy rule was brought up, they just shrugged and said basically whatever. We ended up leaving without playing.

I’m guessing that it is what it is but is this normal among players?

The last group seems to be reasonable.

I would suggest noting the time by taking a photo and then walking on to the court of the "2 - 3 hr" group and start playing. If they refuse to leave, call the non-emergency number of the police. Take a photo of the sign too.

 

[5sets]

So the other day we arrived at the tennis court at 5 PM. All 6 courts were full and the sign says that if there is a wait for courts then one hour playing is courtesy for the people waiting for a court to play.

So 6 clock rolls around and there are 4 other groups waiting to play, and no one seems to be leaving…

So we go and ask the other groups how long it will be.

One group says 2-3 more hours, another group says they are in a sanctioned match, another group says “I dunno”, another group says they were the most recent on the court, another group says an hour, and another 25 more minutes.

When it was brought up that there are other people waiting and 1 hour courtesy rule was brought up, they just shrugged and said basically whatever. We ended up leaving without playing.

I’m guessing that it is what it is but is this normal among players?

Oh, as a side note last week I had to meet a utr flex league opponent on a distance neutral court (of course extremely crowded) and there was a woman reading a book holding the court. I was pretty angry but didn’t make a scene. If I’m there before my friends i usually hit serves or at least do side step exercise with racquet in hand.

 

[sureshs]

Oh, as a side note last week I had to meet a utr flex league opponent on a distance neutral court (of course extremely crowded) and there was a woman reading a book holding the court. I was pretty angry but didn’t make a scene. If I’m there before my friends i usually hit serves or at least do side step exercise with racquet in hand.

Some people need breaks and it is up to them what they do with their time. She might be reading Winning Ugly and then trying out some strategy every 15 minutes, for all you know.

 

[5sets]

Pretty sure it was “Little Women” and she sat there for at least 20 minutes with no opponent in site but thanks for your constructive input!
Some people need breaks and it is up to them what they do with their time. She might be reading Winning Ugly and then trying out some strategy every 15 minutes, for all you know.

 

[5sets]

Some people need breaks and it is up to them what they do with their time. She might be reading Winning Ugly and then trying out some strategy every 15 minutes, for all you know.

Lol, it definetly wasn’t a changeover. No opponent in site. Just a lone woman.

 

[ichaseballs]

it becomes a confrontation.
having rules that are not enforced is a silly thing.

 

[silentkman]

Concealed carry could fix this.

dumb remark

 

[J B]

If I am going to wait for a court I let the folks playing that I will be taking the court in an hour as per the posted rules. When the hour is up I'll go on the court. Folk will try and bully others by disregarding posted rules and courtesy. I'm having none of that. BTW, teaching pros given private lessons on public courts are the worst at this. I can't tell you how many I have had to kick off.

In my city we pay the city a large % of the per hour rate and we have preference. So you can’t kick the pro off. However! I don’t think you should be able to take them all, although we can. As my academy has 4 coaches

 

[zipplock]

In my city we pay the city a large % of the per hour rate and we have preference. So you can’t kick the pro off. However! I don’t think you should be able to take them all, although we can. As my academy has 4 coaches

Not to knock what you do, but I think private citizens making money off a public facility is a travesty. If public funds were used to create/maintain a facility, those same citizens should have first crack at them. I have friends that teach private lessons on public courts. I give them hell too. Nothing personal intended.

 

[Cindysphinx]

I am a taxpayer and am entitled to play for an hour. If I want to hire someone to help me with my backhand, what’s the problem?

 

[Creighton]

I am a taxpayer and am entitled to play for an hour. If I want to hire someone to help me with my backhand, what’s the problem?

It’s generally against local ordinances.

But even if it isn’t, it’s frowned upon to use public facilities for for-profit activities.

 

[jered]

As per the other thread, the 1 hour limit is completely unenforceable and both police and park code enforcement won’t get involved to get you a court.

I would not recommend bullying your way onto the court. If you cause an altercation, cops will find you at fault, not the squatters.

 

[ichaseballs]

go on google maps, turn on satellite imaging, and look for local tennis courts...
i have at least 5-6 in my area that are within a 20 minute drive

 

[Raul_SJ]

If they refuse to leave, call the non-emergency number of the police. Take a photo of the sign too.

Who typically answers the non-emergency number? Or is it typically a recording? Don't see the point of calling someone that won't respond... If they refuse to leave it may be best to call 911. Have shown up at courts recently with cops parked outside. Asked what happened and was told that it was a court dispute.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Not to knock what you do, but I think private citizens making money off a public facility is a travesty. If public funds were used to create/maintain a facility, those same citizens should have first crack at them. I have friends that teach private lessons on public courts. I give them hell too. Nothing personal intended.

It is annoying. Show up at the public courts and half the courts are taken up by lessons. The sign is posted by the city, "Courts reserved by city for lessons MW 7-9...".

The argument will be that these players taking lessons will be using the courts regardless. So the city might as well make money by taking a cut of the lessons.

The other question is where are these coaches supposed to teach? There are relatively few private courts.

 

[J B]

Not to knock what you do, but I think private citizens making money off a public facility is a travesty. If public funds were used to create/maintain a facility, those same citizens should have first crack at them. I have friends that teach private lessons on public courts. I give them hell too. Nothing personal intended.

did you miss the part about having to pay the city 30% of my hourly rate??? So min 15$ an hour... do you pay 15$ an hour to play? And that money sure doesnt go back into the courts.

 

[DeeeFoo]

As per the other thread, the 1 hour limit is completely unenforceable and both police and park code enforcement won’t get involved to get you a court.

I would not recommend bullying your way onto the court. If you cause an altercation, cops will find you at fault, not the squatters.

I think it depends on the city. I've seen an instance in my city where local authorities got involved to boot a private coach off the court because he stayed there too long and was generally being a jerk to everyone who tried to get him to leave. But yes, I would agree with not bullying your way onto the court, especially if you live in the area and go to the courts often. I think a good option is to familiarize yourself with the frequent court-goers and get on friendly terms with everyone. That way you can coordinate schedules and work something out together if there's an issue with court time. Pretty much everyone at our local courts knows each other.

 

[5sets]

Who typically answers the non-emergency number? Or is it typically a recording? Don't see the point of calling someone that won't respond... If they refuse to leave it may be best to call 911. Have shown up at courts recently with cops parked outside. Asked what happened and was told that it was a court dispute.

Great advice there. Let’s all tie up 911 emergency response lines when we are itching to play some tennis. We should close this thread with that comment, it solves everything.

 

[Raul_SJ]

Great advice there. Let’s all tie up 911 emergency response lines when we are itching to play some tennis. We should close this thread with that comment, it solves everything.

Reading comprehension please. It is when the party refuses to leave and the situation escalates. Cops get called to break up fights at bars all the time. This is not much different.

Cops were also patrolling the public parks and hounding people for masks and not distancing so don't tell us the cops have no time to break up actual physical assaults on the court.

 

[austintennis2005]

Not to knock what you do, but I think private citizens making money off a public facility is a travesty. If public funds were used to create/maintain a facility, those same citizens should have first crack at them. I have friends that teach private lessons on public courts. I give them hell too. Nothing personal intended.

but isnt the pro providing a useful service to the citizens that may not be able to afford to join a country club to take private lessons? what if the pro was offering free lessons on public courts and people could choose just to give a 'tip' to him after the lesson- would that also be a 'travesty' in your opinion?

 

[Alexrb]

but isnt the pro providing a useful service to the citizens that may not be able to afford to join a country club to take private lessons? what if the pro was offering free lessons on public courts and people could choose just to give a 'tip' to him after the lesson- would that also be a 'travesty' in your opinion?

I also don't love the idea of tennis pros giving lessons on private courts. Mainly because I'm trying to play singles and they're feeding a basket to a newbie who keeps spraying them on my court. But also, people suck. Say tennis pro is giving a lesson and his student tears a hamstring doing a drill the pro recommended. Student hires Morgan and Morgan to go after the tennis pro who has zero insurance, so the city gets dragged into it and we as tax payers end up footing the bill.

It's the same reason I tell my wife not to give out free medical advice to neighbors and friends even though she's a doctor. Make an appointment and go through normal channels, there's typically a reason they exist.

 

[tennis tom]

...but isnt the pro providing a useful service to the citizens that may not be able to afford to join a country club to take private lessons?

Most clubs allow non-members to take lessons.

 

[austintennis2005]

Most clubs allow non-members to take lessons.

at my club the lessons are $80/hr + $15 guest fee so not very affordable for the avg person

 

[Downtheline1]

Where I used to live, the town through the police station would issue a tennis permit for the specific hour (eg 3-4), so it was your court if you had a tennis permit.

 

[zipplock]

but isnt the pro providing a useful service to the citizens that may not be able to afford to join a country club to take private lessons? what if the pro was offering free lessons on public courts and people could choose just to give a 'tip' to him after the lesson- would that also be a 'travesty' in your opinion?

If the lessons were actually free, and the pro was only on a single court for one hour, then I have no problem. If the "tip" was required, then I would have a problem. Would the pro keep giving me a free lesson on the public courts if I didn't give a tip?

 

[zaskar1]

So the other day we arrived at the tennis court at 5 PM. All 6 courts were full and the sign says that if there is a wait for courts then one hour playing is courtesy for the people waiting for a court to play.

So 6 clock rolls around and there are 4 other groups waiting to play, and no one seems to be leaving…

So we go and ask the other groups how long it will be.

One group says 2-3 more hours, another group says they are in a sanctioned match, another group says “I dunno”, another group says they were the most recent on the court, another group says an hour, and another 25 more minutes.

When it was brought up that there are other people waiting and 1 hour courtesy rule was brought up, they just shrugged and said basically whatever. We ended up leaving without playing.

I’m guessing that it is what it is but is this normal among players?

the experience that jst encountered is the reason i try to stay away from public courts, and just play at my club.
however i do occasionally play at public courts, and usually do that early in the am.
you should not subject yourself to possible altercations
z

 

[stapletonj]

"Say tennis pro is giving a lesson and his student tears a hamstring doing a drill the pro recommended. Student hires Morgan and Morgan to go after the tennis pro who has zero insurance, so the city gets dragged into it and we as tax payers end up footing the bill."

As someone in the legal profession for over 42 years, I have never seen, been a part of, heard of, or even read of this actually happening, anywhere in the entire USA. Sounds like corporate astroturfing to me. Even assuming this is a real thing, the city could very easily require teaching pro, as a condition of contracting with the city to use facilities, to provide proof of insurance. Which is done across many professions and businesses that contract with governmental agencies.

 

[bobleenov1963]

I am a taxpayer and am entitled to play for an hour. If I want to hire someone to help me with my backhand, what’s the problem?

Public tennis courts in Fairfax Virginia & Montgomery Maryland do NOT allow any private coaching without written permission from the county park authority, and the instructor has to pay a fee to the park authority. That is explicitly stated on the sign post to the fence of the tennis courts. You're a tax payer is irrelevant.

"Say tennis pro is giving a lesson and his student tears a hamstring doing a drill the pro recommended. Student hires Morgan and Morgan to go after the tennis pro who has zero insurance, so the city gets dragged into it and we as tax payers end up footing the bill."

As someone in the legal profession for over 42 years, I have never seen, been a part of, heard of, or even read of this actually happening, anywhere in the entire USA. Sounds like corporate astroturfing to me. Even assuming this is a real thing, the city could very easily require teaching pro, as a condition of contracting with the city to use facilities, to provide proof of insurance. Which is done across many professions and businesses that contract with governmental agencies.

Just because you have never seen or heard about it, it doesn't mean that it does not happen. Fairfax county Virginia & Montgomery County Maryland do require teaching pro to carry proof of insurance before they can rent the county public tennis courts. No insurance, no tennis courts.

 

[tennis tom]

A benefit of getting USPTA certification is to obtain liability insurance.

 

[mikelikesgatorad]

at my club the lessons are $80/hr + $15 guest fee so not very affordable for the avg person

Terrible value. Essentially 30x the cost of balls. You'd improve much more playing 30 times with fresh balls every time paid for by you.

 

[OnTheLine]

"Say tennis pro is giving a lesson and his student tears a hamstring doing a drill the pro recommended. Student hires Morgan and Morgan to go after the tennis pro who has zero insurance, so the city gets dragged into it and we as tax payers end up footing the bill."

As someone in the legal profession for over 42 years, I have never seen, been a part of, heard of, or even read of this actually happening, anywhere in the entire USA. Sounds like corporate astroturfing to me. Even assuming this is a real thing, the city could very easily require teaching pro, as a condition of contracting with the city to use facilities, to provide proof of insurance. Which is done across many professions and businesses that contract with governmental agencies.

We had it happen here kinda. HOA courts (but public) in a giant master planned community. They re-surfaced them (roughly 18 courts throughout the community) and went with the lowest bidder to put in plexipave. They were a disaster. The layers delaminated. When it rained they would be soaked for days. They bubbled but didn't crack.

The HOA tried to go after the contractor who did them, but contractor was out of business.

Player got injured while taking a lesson with a pro. Player went after HOA and the privately run tennis club/teaching pro. Settled for a decent sum.

The legal problem for the HOA was ignoring the complaints from players for 2 years about the condition. They didn't shut down the courts, didn't fix them while trying to get the original (now defunct) company to pay. So they had knowledge of the court damage ... that opened up their liability.
The legal problem for the teaching pro was that he had made statements and sent letters to the HOA regarding the danger of the courts and yet continued to teach on them.

 

[tennis tom]

Terrible value. Essentially 30x the cost of balls. You'd improve much more playing 30 times with fresh balls every time paid for by you.

Practicing doing the wrong thing will only get you better at doing the wrong thing.

$80-100 is the going rate for taking a lesson through a private club.

 

[nyta2]

dumb remark

pretty sure there is a hidden ;P character
i have a ui setting called [ ]showSarcasm that helps make that visible.

[edit]...oops forgot

 

[nyta2]

I am a taxpayer and am entitled to play for an hour. If I want to hire someone to help me with my backhand, what’s the problem?

IMO that's not the problem...
the issue is when the instructor hogs a court(s) for multiple hours at a time... forcing folks to wait "longer than usual" (whatever that means to you)
in general probably not an issue if the instructor is waiting on line (if there is one) at the end of each hour
i think arguments like "can't profit of public facilities", are just legalese to stop folks from hogging courts... but if no one is waiting more than a reasonable amount of time, no one cares.

there are courts by me that are hogged by 2 instructors (i use them to teach too), but these 2 instructors are there from like 7a-5p, and folks were taking issue with that (specifically during "prime time weekend hours: 8a-11a" or "prime time weekday hours: 5p-8p"). in my case, i was there for 60m (90m) max, but more importantly when no one was waiting (eg. 12p middle of day when it's hot in summer, and no one typically wants to play)

 

[nyta2]

As per the other thread, the 1 hour limit is completely unenforceable and both police and park code enforcement won’t get involved to get you a court.

I would not recommend bullying your way onto the court. If you cause an altercation, cops will find you at fault, not the squatters.

small town cops have & will get involved IME
in bigger cities they won't care/have time for that.

 

[nyta2]

at my club the lessons are $80/hr + $15 guest fee so not very affordable for the avg person

guess it depends on definition of "avg"... by my the base lesson at one club is $100... but the goes up to $250+ depending on the pro (eg. usually with atp/wta points, coached high level forlks, or at another club a former "teaching" pro was a grandslam champ)

Terrible value. Essentially 30x the cost of balls. You'd improve much more playing 30 times with fresh balls every time paid for by you.

value really depends on the product they are giving/you are receiving.
playing 30x reinforcing the same bad habit IMO can be more expensive than paying that up front cost of the lesson (eg. the cost of breaking that bad habit later).
on the flip side i've received some pretty bad lessons before... and would be terrible value even if i even spent $1.

that said, i am a tiny bit biased

 

[bobleenov1963]

IMO that's not the problem...
the issue is when the instructor hogs a court(s) for multiple hours at a time... forcing folks to wait "longer than usual" (whatever that means to you)
in general probably not an issue if the instructor is waiting on line (if there is one) at the end of each hour
i think arguments like "can't profit of public facilities", are just legalese to stop folks from hogging courts... but if no one is waiting more than a reasonable amount of time, no one cares.

there are courts by me that are hogged by 2 instructors (i use them to teach too), but these 2 instructors are there from like 7a-5p, and folks were taking issue with that (specifically during "prime time weekend hours: 8a-11a" or "prime time weekday hours: 5p-8p"). in my case, i was there for 60m (90m) max, but more importantly when no one was waiting (eg. 12p middle of day when it's hot in summer, and no one typically wants to play)

The park and recreational people CARE. They want to get a cut too.

In a very nice neighborhood of Potomac Maryland, instructors use the tennis courts to give out private tennis lessons from 7am-7pm without permits on public tennis courts and no one care because the courts, there are five of them, are always emptied. 99% of the people in that neighborhood are members of Country Clubs, and they don't want to be seen at public tennis courts, LOL...

 

[nyta2]

The park and recreational people CARE. They want to get a cut too.

In a very nice neighborhood of Potomac Maryland, instructors use the tennis courts to give out private tennis lessons from 7am-7pm without permits on public tennis courts and no one care because the courts, there are five of them, are always emptied. 99% of the people in that neighborhood are members of Country Clubs, and they don't want to be seen at public tennis courts, LOL...

ah, so in a sense this becomes a bigger question of tax/revenue collection...
can solve that by requiring a permit, having some sort of enforcement (either permanent or intermittent), cameras, etc...
but the question will eventually become, is the cost to collect be greater than what is being collected? (ie after you set that all up, do the instructors go to the next town 1M away where they don't care?)

 

[bobleenov1963]

ah, so in a sense this becomes a bigger question of tax/revenue collection...
can solve that by requiring a permit, having some sort of enforcement (either permanent or intermittent), cameras, etc...
but the question will eventually become, is the cost to collect be greater than what is being collected? (ie after you set that all up, do the instructors go to the next town 1M away where they don't care?)

I used to be a technology consultant to one of the largest county public schools in the state of Virginia and the public wasted so much money on consultants, like paying me for not actually doing any work, for almost a year. The amount of of money it wasted was hard to comprehend.

To the county bean counters, it is not about tax/revenue collection, it is about the bureaucracy, and that everything has to be done a certain way. The county could setup a system at 500K/year in cost to collect 50K/year in fee and it will do it, because that's how local government work. Wasting tax money is one of the things that it is very good at.

 

[nyta2]

I used to be a technology consultant to one of the largest county public schools in the state of Virginia and the public wasted so much money on consultants, like paying me for not actually doing any work, for almost a year. The amount of of money it wasted was hard to comprehend.

To the county bean counters, it is not about tax/revenue collection, it is about the bureaucracy, and that everything has to be done a certain way. The county could setup a system at 500K/year in cost to collect 50K/year in fee and it will do it, because that's how local government work. Wasting tax money is one of the things that it is very good at.

ugh, hate that (waste of govt resources (tax money!)), one argument for smaller govt
regarding "everything has to be done a certain way"... reminds me of the monkey&policy story (https://www.changefactory.com.au/our-thinking/articles/company-policy-no-bananas/), drives me nuts when folks cite rules/policy/that's-they-way-it's-been-done as a reason for doing something... rather than spending two brain cycles to think about what the most effective action should be overall.
regarding spending 500k to collect 50k... yeah, and politicians will just advertise "rev's collected", jobs created, etc... vs. overall effectiveness to the community overall... but i guess it's our (the people) fault for not digging deeper into it, and calling it out.

 

[sureshs]

I am a taxpayer and am entitled to play for an hour. If I want to hire someone to help me with my backhand, what’s the problem?

It is a public court and the city becomes liable if non-registered or uncertified pros teach. Both for injuries and for more serious issues. Moreover, the city has jurisdiction whenever money is exchanged.

 

[sureshs]

I used to be a technology consultant to one of the largest county public schools in the state of Virginia and the public wasted so much money on consultants, like paying me for not actually doing any work, for almost a year. The amount of of money it wasted was hard to comprehend.

To the county bean counters, it is not about tax/revenue collection, it is about the bureaucracy, and that everything has to be done a certain way. The county could setup a system at 500K/year in cost to collect 50K/year in fee and it will do it, because that's how local government work. Wasting tax money is one of the things that it is very good at.

A certain part of it is because of their legal obligations. People will file a lawsuit whenever things don't go their way, so a bureaucracy is needed.

 

[sureshs]

ugh, hate that (waste of govt resources (tax money!)), one argument for smaller govt
regarding "everything has to be done a certain way"... reminds me of the monkey&policy story (https://www.changefactory.com.au/our-thinking/articles/company-policy-no-bananas/), drives me nuts when folks cite rules/policy/that's-they-way-it's-been-done as a reason for doing something... rather than spending two brain cycles to think about what the most effective action should be overall.
regarding spending 500k to collect 50k... yeah, and politicians will just advertise "rev's collected", jobs created, etc... vs. overall effectiveness to the community overall... but i guess it's our (the people) fault for not digging deeper into it, and calling it out.

The most effective action is often not the most effective for some communities, or for the environment, or for fairness. That is why every development project is contested by the neighbors, for example. That is why public notice, public reviews and public commissions are needed. What is great for you may not be great for someone else.