PUMA/ESTUSA- please bring back the Becker Super

I know all the legends of Becker owning the mold etc etc...I played with this frame for 15 years till they disintegrated. Bring it back in old form and a new model using new materials/techcologies...heck Boris all those new rackets you are creating now could use the boost of a new -retro modded well know model revered by so many. I hate the idea of scrapping one up from that auction site.
 

Virginia

Hall of Fame
Do you destroy Pumas and Estusas too? Sorry, couldn't resist - and welcome to the Classics "madhouse". :)
 

galain

Hall of Fame
Ditto

It really doesn't feel like I've been here THAT long, but I remember when TW was selling them new for $60 and they were one of the highest rated sticks that had been playtested.
 
Do you destroy Pumas and Estusas too? Sorry, couldn't resist - and welcome to the Classics "madhouse". :)
Well my green Toms Machines are only two seasons old, not sure if these will be in my hands for the next 10years or so...I am thinking of trying the Volkl Organix 10. Used the Volkl 10 V-Engine mids after the pumas as they were close in feel and shape for about 5 yrs.
Ugh I need my Puma.
 
I remember

Ditto

It really doesn't feel like I've been here THAT long, but I remember when TW was selling them new for $60 and they were one of the highest rated sticks that had been playtested.
Estusa had a website up at one point selling their power beams and braided versions for a lot of money, but I think that died.
 
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I know all the legends of Becker owning the mold etc etc...I played with this frame for 15 years till they disintegrated. Bring it back in old form and a new model using new materials/techcologies...heck Boris all those new rackets you are creating now could use the boost of a new -retro modded well know model revered by so many. I hate the idea of scrapping one up from that auction site.
+1! Sign me up for at least 10 frames!
 

6-2/6-4/6-0

Semi-Pro
No idea why Boris wouldn't do it with Volkl/BB - if he owns the molds, then why not make them? Just keep the old feel/playability, don't do it with Organix, and freshen up the graphics...
 

vsbabolat

G.O.A.T.
No idea why Boris wouldn't do it with Volkl/BB - if he owns the molds, then why not make them? Just keep the old feel/playability, don't do it with Organix, and freshen up the graphics...
Boris has nothing to do with Volkl/BB anymore.
In December 2008 Völkl Tennis GmbH closes its doors ; co-owner Boris Becker and H.D. Cleven discontinue the tennis business for the brands Völkl Tennis and Boris Becker Tennis. As a result the licensee of Völkl Tennis returned to the Marker Völkl Int. Group.
In January 2009 Klip America Inc., located in San Diego, CA - USA, takes over the Völkl Tennis licensee and restarts the business! The RE-BIRTH of Völkl Tennis!
http://vb-tennis.com/cms/front_content.php?idcat=36
 
So how do they release new frames with his name on them?

Boris has nothing to do with Volkl/BB anymore.
In December 2008 Völkl Tennis GmbH closes its doors ; co-owner Boris Becker and H.D. Cleven discontinue the tennis business for the brands Völkl Tennis and Boris Becker Tennis. As a result the licensee of Völkl Tennis returned to the Marker Völkl Int. Group.
In January 2009 Klip America Inc., located in San Diego, CA - USA, takes over the Völkl Tennis licensee and restarts the business! The RE-BIRTH of Völkl Tennis!
http://vb-tennis.com/cms/front_content.php?idcat=36
A contractual thing? and he did have the ability to recreate the BB Super for quite sometime but did not...bad BB!
 

Mike Bulgakov

G.O.A.T.
I remember hitting with the Estusa Becker in Sweden in the 1990s. It was a very nice racquet. I was told that the Puma predecessor had different versions with differing graphite/fiberglass ratios, and those with the most fiberglass tended to break easily.

I am not sure what Becker used, but there were different versions of this racquet sold.

A more recent racquet that Becker has used, the Boris Becker Delta Core Legend, plays very well with modifications. I see that TW is out of the larger grip sizes.
 
Estusa

Yes Estusa made a pro, a super and a braided version...not sure of all the specs but they went ffrom flex-to mid-flex to stiff with the braided and they had head guards on them plus not ability to move the grip via the butt cap screw. I played witht he provantech black and white version< I killed 4 of them and now they are very rare here is a very well know link to rackets...http://80s-tennis.com/pages/estusa.html
 

zapvor

G.O.A.T.
so question about the becker super-how do you use the tuning thing in the buttcap? which way do you turn to lengthen/shorten?
 

Mike Bulgakov

G.O.A.T.
After posting in this thread, I talked with a friend about this racquet. He said that he thinks:

a) Puma had a 50/50 graphite/fiberglass version of this racquet that broke easily.
b) Puma also had an 80/20 graphite/fiberglass version that was sold in Europe, which was the version that Becker used.
c) Estusa's Becker frame had an 80/20 graphite/fiberglass ratio.

He also told me that these are nothing more than hazy recollections, so take these thoughts for what they are worth.
 
After posting in this thread, I talked with a friend about this racquet. He said that he thinks:

a) Puma had a 50/50 graphite/fiberglass version of this racquet that broke easily.
b) Puma also had an 80/20 graphite/fiberglass version that was sold in Europe, which was the version that Becker used.
c) Estusa's Becker frame had an 80/20 graphite/fiberglass ratio.

He also told me that these are nothing more than hazy recollections, so take these thoughts for what they are worth.
BB racquet specs 26/3/1997

Mould # 3

layup = 50 UD CF, 50 fiberglass both Toray

RA = 52

Weight = 332 US

Balance= 32.5

Grip = solid PU (no extension screw) with two center rings

Factory, Sanhosun
 

Mike Bulgakov

G.O.A.T.
BB racquet specs 26/3/1997

Mould # 3

layup = 50 UD CF, 50 fiberglass both Toray

RA = 52

Weight = 332 US

Balance= 32.5

Grip = solid PU (no extension screw) with two center rings

Factory, Sanhosun
This is interesting. The Estusa Power Beam Pro had very different specifications; Becker's racquet sounds much nicer to me with the 52 RA. I looked up the Estusa and came across the version that TW sold.

From TW:

Estusa Power Beam Pro Racquet Review

There is only a handful of classic racquets that have survived the last 10-15 years of technology "advancements". Their appeal lies in a purity of design, simplicity and quality of components. Like a well made wine, these racquets are a good blend of design, raw materials and production. They're balanced, and, like a fine wine, just seem to get better with age! The Estusa Power Beam Pro is such a racquet. Originally made famous by Boris Becker back in the late'80s, it faded into obscurity over the last several years. We were fortunate to find and bring back this classic player's racquet. We had lots of fun playtesting the Power Beam Pro over a two week period on hardcourts.


Length
27 inches
69 centimeters

Head Size
92 square inches
593 square centimeters

Weight
12.4 ounces
352 grams

Balance Point
12.375 inches
31 centimeters
9pts Head Light

Construction
18-19 mm Beam

Composition
80% Graphite
20% Fiberglass

String Pattern
16 Mains / 19 Crosses

Babolat RDC Ratings

Score

Grade

Flex Rating
66
Range: 0-100

Swing Weight
326
Range: 200-400

Manueverability
69
http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/REVIEWS/EPBP/EPBPReview.html
 
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zapvor

G.O.A.T.
Puma had two systems - one was the screw where you would turn it to make the racquet shorter or longer. The second was where the end cap came off and you inserted plates that would also lengthen the frame. The idea was on a clay court or slow conditions where you needed some extra power you would make the frame longer. On a fast court or where you needed more control you would shorten it.
thanks for the info! mine has the screw cap system. i guess you can use a coin. but which way do you turn?
 

Hannah19

Professional
Turn clockwise and the shaft is pulled into the handle.
Anti-clockwise pushes the shaft outwards again.
Head heavy > turn anti clockwise
Head light > turn clockwise
 

coachrick

Hall of Fame
I don't know if there are any other forum users who grew up in Europe during the Boris era, but every time I think about Puma BB racquets, the Bruce and Bongo song, "Geil," clicks on in my brain! :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIK-kS3y7EM
I don't have all the details, but I ran into a t-a-l-l fellow last night who said he played #1 for his American(High) School in Germany, early '80s(not sure what city). He's 6'5" or so and possessed a huge serve at the time. An area coach asked if he would serve to one of his young(16 years) players and do his best to ace him. The fellow said NO-one had ever returned his serve the way this young guy did...hitting winners off his very best serves. Eventually, they went their separate ways and the young fellow's name didn't even stick until 'tall guy' sees him on TV the following spring...the name then became very familiar...Boris Becker !
 

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
Yeah, in 1986, I trained with a guy who had been Becker's Junior Davis Cup doubles partner. He was quite good, too.

That song was EVERYWHERE when it came out. For the non-German speakers among us, "Geil" translates most literally as "horny" or English "randy," but was ubiquitous German 80's slang for "cool."
 

Hannah19

Professional
Yeah, in 1986, I trained with a guy who had been Becker's Junior Davis Cup doubles partner. He was quite good, too.

That song was EVERYWHERE when it came out. For the non-German speakers among us, "Geil" translates most literally as "horny" or English "randy," but was ubiquitous German 80's slang for "cool."
"Affen titten geil" to be more specific.....

Translate that into any other language and you really start to wonder if this is the same people that give us the down to earth sauerkraut and sausage....:)
 
Umm soooo what happened to this thread!?!

"Affen titten geil" to be more specific.....

Translate that into any other language and you really start to wonder if this is the same people that give us the down to earth sauerkraut and sausage....:)
German catchy tunes, tall fellows, sausage? I mean c'mon I just want a new version of the BB Puma built again! lol
 

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
Sorry! The original Puma Winner and Super were really good frames. Alot of people forget that for a few years, numerous (mostly European) pros used it, not only Becker. And it was hugely popular among amateur players. I played them on and off when they were available. They were not terribly stable on off-center hits, but conversely, with a little wrist, one could flick extra topspin on forehands and backhands better than any other racquet I've tried since. I didn't much like the extendable handle system, though; they tended to begin to make odd noises and not work properly after a few years. I was sorry to see Puma leave the racquet market.

Also, they were ahead of their other European-headquartered competitors in being one of the first (if not the first) Euro brand to manufacture entirely in Asia (Taiwan, IIRC). I believe the first year they made racquets was 1984.
 

Hannah19

Professional
OK, let's stick to the subject.
Although I have a couple of BB Puma's in my tennis shack, I never actually felt like playing with them.
Maybe I should take one out for a spin....? :)
 

coachrick

Hall of Fame
German catchy tunes, tall fellows, sausage? I mean c'mon I just want a new version of the BB Puma built again! lol
Guess I shouldn't bring up my tentative plans to visit Goteborg late summer '13 to pick up a new Volvo and drive around for a week or two. ;) Who knows, I might even bump into one of you famous collector types! :) The Netherlands only looks to be about two inches away on the map!

Back on topic...did Estusa make a clone of the Becker Super under the Estusa marque?
 

roundiesee

Hall of Fame
KneisslDestroyer, and other users of the BB frame; what specifically was so good about the Puma/Estusa frames? I remember when I was very young, I had a brief hit with my friend's Puma, but could not recall the "feel" of the racket. My usual racket at the time was the PS 85.
 
OK, let's stick to the subject.
Although I have a couple of BB Puma's in my tennis shack, I never actually felt like playing with them.
Maybe I should take one out for a spin....? :)
Um how much for one of those lil sticks from your shack? Love to get one as all of mine disintegrated, last one I had was in decent shape but I misplaced it in a move.
 
Puma/Estusa

KneisslDestroyer, and other users of the BB frame; what specifically was so good about the Puma/Estusa frames? I remember when I was very young, I had a brief hit with my friend's Puma, but could not recall the "feel" of the racket. My usual racket at the time was the PS 85.
Well I sued the PUMA/ESTUSA for a lil over 12 years excelusively, I did try to change as my frames were getting rickety hence the reference to the movable grip that was on the PUMA frames only, that frame was able to attain that "pocket" of the ball feel..I sued Prince Synthetic Gut always and strung it tight...it was just one those rackets that when you hit it JUST RIGHT the shot feel and placement plus power was so rewarding, it had a very nice smoothness in the air also. I am using the latest incarnation of the Kneissl Toms Machine now, it also has the same reward when hit just right but the swing through the air is a bit bulkier than the PUMA. I tried the PUMA Top Flex, it was green with white and is quite rare, I sued that for 2 seasons but I found it too flexxy, I then went to the black and whote checked Estusa PB Provantech(?) I had tow of them I got for about 50 bux each on a sale table at the Sports store in the mall...very nice frames but the attached bumber guard made em feel too stiff in the head, but I liked that there was no movsble grip thing...oh well so thats that.
 

roundiesee

Hall of Fame
Well I sued the PUMA/ESTUSA for a lil over 12 years excelusively, I did try to change as my frames were getting rickety hence the reference to the movable grip that was on the PUMA frames only, that frame was able to attain that "pocket" of the ball feel..I sued Prince Synthetic Gut always and strung it tight...it was just one those rackets that when you hit it JUST RIGHT the shot feel and placement plus power was so rewarding, it had a very nice smoothness in the air also. I am using the latest incarnation of the Kneissl Toms Machine now, it also has the same reward when hit just right but the swing through the air is a bit bulkier than the PUMA. I tried the PUMA Top Flex, it was green with white and is quite rare, I sued that for 2 seasons but I found it too flexxy, I then went to the black and whote checked Estusa PB Provantech(?) I had tow of them I got for about 50 bux each on a sale table at the Sports store in the mall...very nice frames but the attached bumber guard made em feel too stiff in the head, but I liked that there was no movsble grip thing...oh well so thats that.
Excellent review, thanks! Just wish they still make these frames...... :(
 

playtheroots

New User
I recently bought 3 Puma Boris Becker Super. Two of them are made in Taiwan (written on one side) and are about 30g lighter than the other one which weights 360g unstrung.

I would like to know what could be the difference between this two "kinds" of frames. Both are mentionned 50% graphite and 50% fiberglass. The heavier one may be made in Germany ?

Someone here on the board may have an explanation.
Thanks for the help.
 

Ciaron

Semi-Pro
Boris ist Geil!!

I don't know if there are any other forum users who grew up in Europe during the Boris era, but every time I think about Puma BB racquets, the Bruce and Bongo song, "Geil," clicks on in my brain! :)
Kraftwerk also had a track out .... Boom Boom Boris Becker
 

joe sch

Legend
Puma/Estusa



Well I sued the PUMA/ESTUSA for a lil over 12 years excelusively, I did try to change as my frames were getting rickety hence the reference to the movable grip that was on the PUMA frames only, that frame was able to attain that "pocket" of the ball feel..I sued Prince Synthetic Gut always and strung it tight...it was just one those rackets that when you hit it JUST RIGHT the shot feel and placement plus power was so rewarding, it had a very nice smoothness in the air also. I am using the latest incarnation of the Kneissl Toms Machine now, it also has the same reward when hit just right but the swing through the air is a bit bulkier than the PUMA. I tried the PUMA Top Flex, it was green with white and is quite rare, I sued that for 2 seasons but I found it too flexxy, I then went to the black and whote checked Estusa PB Provantech(?) I had tow of them I got for about 50 bux each on a sale table at the Sports store in the mall...very nice frames but the attached bumber guard made em feel too stiff in the head, but I liked that there was no movsble grip thing...oh well so thats that.
I agree that the Kneissl machine rackets are great alternatives to playing the more classic Puma / Estusa Becker rackets. I have a few including the Toms Reach models. Nice solid plowthru sticks ! Take a look:

http://woodtennis.com/kneissl/KneisslTomsReach03.JPG
http://woodtennis.com/kneissl/KneisslTomsReach04.JPG
 

michael valek

Professional
I wish there was a modern equivalent. I play with mine from time to time but they are just too heavy. All around 370-380 grams. Cannot generate any speed on serves at all.
 

teachingprotx

Hall of Fame
15K plus tooling costs and you can get yourself set for life.
Bump
Ok ok . I know this is old news but I have a question . Can @ClassicTennisRackets tell us more about the process one would need to go thru to have his or her own rackets made?
For instance what does the $15,000 do exactly? Who do you contact to get this process started ? How do you get them the molds you would want?
Tooling ? What exactly does that mean and entail ? Apologies for the barrage of questions:)
 

retrowagen

Hall of Fame
Bump
Ok ok . I know this is old news but I have a question . Can @ClassicTennisRackets tell us more about the process one would need to go thru to have his or her own rackets made?
For instance what does the $15,000 do exactly? Who do you contact to get this process started ? How do you get them the molds you would want?
Tooling ? What exactly does that mean and entail ? Apologies for the barrage of questions:)
I think perhaps I should step in to answer on behalf of our colleage, “classic tennis” (not “classic tennis racquets”). He was a project manager for various manufacturers in the racquet industry, from the late 1980’s through the day he suddenly passed away five years ago, and he was a personal friend.

He and I had some great chats over pints, and then later and more serious, about bringing back some weightier, flexier frames from classic molds we liked. He secured permission and plans from a former manufacturer in Europe, I did a little engineering work, and things were moving forward.

Basically, it boils down to funding batches of frames. Most factories are open to doing tooling and production but must have a commitment of a certain number. Depending on relationships and circumstances, this number can range from US$15k to US$40k.

When “classic” died, so did our idea. However, it seems that some of the big manufacturers have changed their thinking in the last couple of years, and we’re seeing more “classic-esque” options on the market.
 
Count me in the blue-red “egg-head” camp. Would love me some more of them Puma/Estusa sticks. Their weights were all over the place though... Better QC would not hurt at all!
 

tennistiger

Semi-Pro
Head could make them like the pro stocks in Austria. The mold ist still in Kennelbach. But may bei there are still rights at U. Kuehnel who managed the production of Beckers personal and the World Champion rackets in 1996.
 

BorgCash

Legend
Be realistic, nobody make this racquet again, not so many people like that kind of racquets, due to modern standarts it is heavy small headed with funny shape. It is only for real connoisseurs only.
 
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