PusherFest in club league - Help me understand

[FedGR]

**This is not a "I hate pushers" topic**

I recently started playing at this league at a local club. 2nd highest level out of 5 and probably a 4.0 league meaning a variety of players of different skills and athleticism with a good command of the game.

It is the first league I play since I moved to the US and I am honestly surprised by the number of pushers/grinders/moonballers. Growing up, I never experienced anything like that. Most people I played HAD A GAME meaning independently of their overall skills, people were trying to do something on the court, build the point, transition from defense to offense with a plan, etc. In this league, there are probably 5 out of the 12 that try to play the game.

My question is, do pushers love the game? I don't hate on them, I actually appreciate them as they help me build consistency, be patient, etc. But when you love the game, don't you want to learn more? Don't you want to practice something new? Don't you want to control the ball and the game better?

Do pushers understand that no matter how well they train and how good they are at a specific point in time, someone that trains equally hard and wants to learn more will eventually become better than them?

Disclaimer: By pushers I don't mean players that play defensively and try to build something but players that you will give them an easy ball and they will slice it to your backhand 20 times instead of trying an approach shot/winner.

Please help me understand, so many questions!!

 

[Zlatni]

Wait...what!!!
I thought US style was big serve and spray and pray forehand.
I am confused...[emoji848]


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[FedGR]

Wait...what!!!
I thought US style was big serve and spray and pray forehand.
I am confused...[emoji848]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well... You can be a pusher with a big serve.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

- Maybe they're happy with their current level
- Maybe they're fearful of moving out of their comfort zone
- Maybe they like playing a low-risk style
- Maybe they've been conditioned to push because it wins [up to a certain point]

You've got the right attitude: welcome it as an opportunity to work on being patient and constructing points.

 

[kevrol]

Sounds like someone got beat by players with what the OP considers inferior strokes.

 

[FedGR]

Sounds like someone got beat by players with what the OP considers inferior strokes.

Seems like someone commented without reading the 1st post. Oh well...

 

[FedGR]

- Maybe they're happy with their current level
- Maybe they're fearful of moving out of their comfort zone
- Maybe they like playing a low-risk style
- Maybe they've been conditioned to push because it wins [up to a certain point]

You've got the right attitude: welcome it as an opportunity to work on being patient and constructing points.

But even if you are happy with your current level, don't you always want to improve? I am talking about guys ages 25-40, not seniors that I would understand it in that case.

 

[Traffic]

But even if you are happy with your current level, don't you always want to improve? I am talking about guys ages 25-40, not seniors that I would understand it in that case.

Ran into a 40y/o 4.0 player at a mixed doubles tournament. He was a "pusher" style. His BH slice was well placed and never missed. Yawner serves. But again, very low UE. It was very frustrating to lose to him as I'm fine getting blown off the court by a dominant player, but to counter everything that was thrown at him with solid shots that are well placed is an exercise in patience and what seems to constitute a 4.0.

On the contrary, 3.0 and 3.5 can have amazing shots. They just can't hit them all the time....

 

[Dartagnan64]

I've said this before but I strongly believe that pushers are outcomes oriented players. Their satisfaction comes from winning so they take the shortest route to provide that satisfaction. Process oriented players are trying to improve and view things over the long haul. Wins and losses are less important than getting better over time. Satisfaction is achieved by a steady improvement in tennis quality and the victories will follow from that.

Two different mindsets which produce different types of players.

 

[OrangePower]

But even if you are happy with your current level, don't you always want to improve? I am talking about guys ages 25-40, not seniors that I would understand it in that case.

Hey, old guys can improve also
At 40 I was a 4.0 (had just started playing again after not playing since high school)
By 45 I was a 4.5.
Hoping to keep up the progression and make 5.0 by the time I hit 50 in a year or so!
(Not very likely but one can try.)
I feel like I'm still improving and can still continue to do so for at least a few more years...
I don't have the speed around the court that I used to have, but otherwise my strokes are better, court positioning is better, and point construction is better.

 

[OnTheLine]

I've said this before but I strongly believe that pushers are outcomes oriented players. Their satisfaction comes from winning so they take the shortest route to provide that satisfaction. Process oriented players are trying to improve and view things over the long haul. Wins and losses are less important than getting better over time. Satisfaction is achieved by a steady improvement in tennis quality and the victories will follow from that.

Two different mindsets which produce different types of players.

The problem is when you are both outcomes oriented AND want to play a solid aggressive game. I set myself up for disappointment all the time!

 

[Dartagnan64]

The problem is when you are both outcomes oriented AND want to play a solid aggressive game. I set myself up for disappointment all the time!

That's true, there are those that believe in the process but really really want to win as well. These are the perfectionists in the crowd. They always struggle with disappointment, because, wait for it: Nobody's perfect.

 

[5sets]

I believe most pushers are self taught. The ones I have come across in tourneys and league are in spectacular shape and adapt to this game style because they can get to every ball and push it back. They don't have the proper strokes because they took up tennis as adults and have no reason to change their game because they win a lot just by making their opponents beat themselves.

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[NTRPolice]

Pushers just bet on the expectation that you cant make more winners than errors.

So, to beat them, you need to learn how to construct points were you arnt making wild swings at low percentage balls. You have to realize they dont have too many weapons. On the serve? Dont double. On the return? Dont blow it into the net or long. Initiate the point. Wait for a sitter that you can easily attack with high percentage. Pound it at their backhand and follow it in. Force them to lob or pass you, or float it at the net where you can put it away +90% of the time. Dont let them make you try to bang winners DTL or sharp angle X-court off balls deep in the baseline.

I beat a lot of pushers using that simple method. I make them have to make winners to beat me, because im putting them in a position where "getting the ball back" means I can attack an easy ball at the net. They're forced to try and lob or pass off a ball that's deep in the court to their backhand.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

But even if you are happy with your current level, don't you always want to improve? I am talking about guys ages 25-40, not seniors that I would understand it in that case.

I always want to improve. You always want to improve. But that wasn't your question. You're asking about another group so I'm just coming up with possibilities.

If someone is happy with their current level and making a significant improvement means going backwards for a while and getting worse, maybe that doesn't sound appealing to them. Age is not the issue; attitude is more important.

 

[eelhc]

Guess I'm very fortunate that my league has players with a variety of playing styles...

To be honest though... between a pusher and a ball basher... I rather play a pusher.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

Guess I'm very fortunate that my league has players with a variety of playing styles...

To be honest though... between a pusher and a ball basher... I rather play a pusher.

Agree: at least with a pusher I'm involved in the match. Indeed, the point will likely be determined by what I do. But against a ball basher, I'm largely irrelevant: he's either going to hit a winner or an error. My involvement will be limited to getting my serve or return in and Mr. BB will take care of the rest. Boring.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

You are seeing pushers because pushing is by far the most successful strategy for anything under 4.5
The simple reality is that adult players do not play frequently enough to successfully employ big strokes.
ANY kind of pushing is a weapon at anything under 4.5

I lobbed a few huge baeline moonballs in a recent 4.0 dubs match.
Not one of them came back.

Also, what pushers lack in pace, they make up for in placement.
Pushers are very smart players.
Placement trumps pace at all levels of tennis

What do pushers like? They like to win.

It takes an iron constitution to lose matches for about 6-12 months
until your big RHS massive spin strokes reach a point of consistency to be more match worthy.

I know several such players, myself included, who have lost to bunters via UE,
but now wipe them off the court. It's a shocking transformation.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Oh, and one more thing, How badly were you beat? LOL

 

[Dartagnan64]

Pushers are very smart players.

I don't think intelligence comes into it the pusher equation at all. They play with the tools they have and develop a game designed for those tools. It's expedience that is their major trait.

But I will say most ball bashers are dumb players. They seem blind to their inconsistency and only live to see that perfectly struck FH DTL winner or ace that happens once in a blue moon

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

Your statement of
If inconsistent basher, then dumb.
is logically equivalent to
If not dumb, then not inconsistent basher.

 

[Dartagnan64]

Your statement of
If inconsistent basher, then dumb.
is logically equivalent to
If not dumb, then not inconsistent basher.

It's the acceptance of inconsistency and making no effort to become either more consistent or less bashy that's dumb. A consistent basher is a force to be reckoned with. An inconsistent pusher is equally dumb. Might as well bash and at least try to get better.

Bottom line: The first two opponents in tennis are the net and the lines. If you can't defeat them then you are definitely not the sharpest tennis player.

 

[FedGR]

Hey, old guys can improve also
At 40 I was a 4.0 (had just started playing again after not playing since high school)
By 45 I was a 4.5.
Hoping to keep up the progression and make 5.0 by the time I hit 50 in a year or so!
(Not very likely but one can try.)
I feel like I'm still improving and can still continue to do so for at least a few more years...
I don't have the speed around the court that I used to have, but otherwise my strokes are better, court positioning is better, and point construction is better.

Well by senior I meant someone older than you!! But 5.0 at 50 is amazing, I hope you can achieve your goal. 5.0 is great tennis.

Pushers just bet on the expectation that you cant make more winners than errors.

So, to beat them, you need to learn how to construct points were you arnt making wild swings at low percentage balls. You have to realize they dont have too many weapons. On the serve? Dont double. On the return? Dont blow it into the net or long. Initiate the point. Wait for a sitter that you can easily attack with high percentage. Pound it at their backhand and follow it in. Force them to lob or pass you, or float it at the net where you can put it away +90% of the time. Dont let them make you try to bang winners DTL or sharp angle X-court off balls deep in the baseline.

I beat a lot of pushers using that simple method. I make them have to make winners to beat me, because im putting them in a position where "getting the ball back" means I can attack an easy ball at the net. They're forced to try and lob or pass off a ball that's deep in the court to their backhand.

Yeap. This is the process that I am going through at the moment, trying to be patient, build the point, finish clean. Surprisingly btw my DTL FH works well and I win a lot of points using it. Obviously I don't go 100% for it but at 80% it works well and does the job.

Guess I'm very fortunate that my league has players with a variety of playing styles...

To be honest though... between a pusher and a ball basher... I rather play a pusher.

Always a pusher. They will show you the gaps in your game. I am just surprised by how many there are.

Oh, and one more thing, How badly were you beat? LOL

Thanks for all the advice at your previous message. I just struggle to understand their mentality.

I was beaten but not badly honestly. 6-4, 0-4. We weren't able to finish the 2nd set (1,5 hour long match) so he won the match. If we could continue though, things could have been different.

To put things into perspective, the guy is first at the league with 16 wins-1 losses this year and the first time we played he bageled me. Also before the match, I didn't touch the racquet for 25 days due to travelling so definitely a bit rusty. So I am happy with my improvement and keep looking forward to be dealing with this kind of players.

 

[S&V-not_dead_yet]

I just struggle to understand their mentality.

My advice then is to stop expending energy trying to understand their mentality. You already know what their mentality is and what their game is about. That's all you need to know what to do to counter it. Trying to understand their mentality is taking focus away from what's important.

 

[jmnk]

Your statement of
If inconsistent basher, then dumb.
is logically equivalent to
If not dumb, then not inconsistent basher.

hmm, you missed some logic classes at school, no?

Edit; no, @TimeToPlaySets did not miss any classes. But I did, either logic or reading ones....

 

[jmnk]

[..]

I was beaten but not badly honestly. 6-4, 0-4. We weren't able to finish the 2nd set (1,5 hour long match) so he won the match. If we could continue though, things could have been different.

To put things into perspective, the guy is first at the league with 16 wins-1 losses this year and the first time we played he bageled me. Also before the match, I didn't touch the racquet for 25 days due to travelling so [but I'm better I was just ] definitely a bit rusty. So I am happy with my improvement and keep looking forward to be dealing with this kind of players.

ok, that explains your first post. Carry on.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

hmm, you missed some logic classes at school, no?

No, that would be you. Feel free to back up anything you say. Then look up the meaning of contrapositive.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

I just struggle to understand their mentality.
.

What part of "I like to win" do you not understand?
It's not that complicated.
What part of 16-1 do you not understand?

The real issue at hand is The Pusher doesn't understand YOUR mentality.

Pushers laugh at people who don't ignore first rule of tennis is to get the ball over the net and inside the line.

Pushers dismiss maniacs with no control as clueless fools who don't know how to play tennis!
.. Maybe that's the part you should be struggling with understanding.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

You are seeing pushers because pushing is by far the most successful strategy for anything under 4.5

pushing equals consistent
all pros are pushers, they just hit a bit harder.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

pushing equals consistent
all pros are pushers, they just hit a bit harder.

Right I'm starting to see that. Rodger Federer is the ultimate pusher. Go watch anything that is not a highlight reel and you will see the majority of shots are hit softer than a 3.5 maniac. Lol

 

[ChaelAZ]

I've said this before but I strongly believe that pushers are outcomes oriented players. Their satisfaction comes from winning so they take the shortest route to provide that satisfaction. Process oriented players are trying to improve and view things over the long haul. Wins and losses are less important than getting better over time. Satisfaction is achieved by a steady improvement in tennis quality and the victories will follow from that.

Two different mindsets which produce different types of players.

Well phrased and framed.


Probably posting from the court between sets.

 

[spun_out]

Disclaimer: By pushers I don't mean players that play defensively and try to build something but players that you will give them an easy ball and they will slice it to your backhand 20 times instead of trying an approach shot/winner.

Please help me understand, so many questions!!

Wait, how can they hit 20 slices in a row if you are always looking to attack and hit winners off an easy ball? Or are you speaking hypothetically? If hypothetically, are you sure that you can hit 20 easy balls in a row for them that should be attacked?

 

[jmnk]

No, that would be you. Feel free to back up anything you say. Then look up the meaning of contrapositive.

@TimeToPlaySets - you are 100% correct (bowing my head in shame). I misread your post. Sorry. My Bad.

 

[jm1980]

Your statement of
If inconsistent basher, then dumb.
is logically equivalent to
If not dumb, then not inconsistent basher.

Except that wasn't his statement. He said "most" inconsistent bashers are dumb, not all of them. This implies at least some inconsistent bashers are not dumb.

 

[jm1980]

What part of "I like to win" do you not understand? It's not that complicated. Do you not understand math? What part of 16-1 do you not understand?

The real issue at hand is The Pusher doesn't understand YOUR mentality. Pushers laugh at people who don't ignore first rule of tennis is to get the ball over the net and inside the line. Pushes dismiss these people as people who don't know how to play tennis even.. Maybe that's the part you should be struggling with understanding.

Different strokes for different folks. Some people like winning at all costs. Others may want to feel like they are actually hitting the ball.

At the end of the day, what are you really proving when you win at 3.5 or 4.0? You could be the best 4.0 on the planet, which still doesn't amount to much.

 

[TennisDawg]

But even if you are happy with your current level, don't you always want to improve? I am talking about guys ages 25-40, not seniors that I would understand it in that case.

A couple of things to think about. A committed pusher wants to improve on being a better pusher. They love the game like anybody else but they know they can win with that style. I’m sure you know how hard it is to change/improve a stroke. Now can you imagine changing your entire game. Not gonna happen. Seniors that push have always played that way. Senior pushers have lost their movement and are easy to beat. Doesn’t make sense to try and become a senior pusher. That’s why they stick to doubles. Something else to ponder is their is a skill to pushing,

 

[GrassCourtFan]

Different strokes for different folks. Some people like winning at all costs. Others may want to feel like they are actually hitting the ball.

See, this is the disconnect... What do you mean by that last sentence? Pushers typically hit MORE balls per match.

You're making a value judgement that hitting harder is better for some intrinsic reason, and not just because it helps you win more.

 

[jm1980]

See, this is the disconnect... What do you mean by that last sentence? Pushers typically hit MORE balls per match.

You're making a value judgement that hitting harder is better for some intrinsic reason, and not just because it helps you win more.

I would not call what 3.5 pushers do "hitting" the ball.

I'm not saying hitting harder is better. Just that some folks find hitting harder more enjoyable.

 

[FedGR]

ok, that explains your first post. Carry on.

Thank you for the valuable insight.

What part of "I like to win" do you not understand?
It's not that complicated.
What part of 16-1 do you not understand?

The real issue at hand is The Pusher doesn't understand YOUR mentality.

Pushers laugh at people who don't ignore first rule of tennis is to get the ball over the net and inside the line.

Pushers dismiss maniacs with no control as clueless fools who don't know how to play tennis!
.. Maybe that's the part you should be struggling with understanding.

You either misread my post or maybe I didn't phrase it properly. English is not my first language so sorry about that.

I do get the part where they like to win. Nothing complicated about it. I don't get the part where they see that people around them are improving in tennis and pushers keep doing the same thing. Of course they will improve and become more competitive pushers but tennis is all about attacking. 2 players of the same level that one takes control of the point and the other just plays defense, well the one that takes control sooner or later will win.

Wait, how can they hit 20 slices in a row if you are always looking to attack and hit winners off an easy ball? Or are you speaking hypothetically? If hypothetically, are you sure that you can hit 20 easy balls in a row for them that should be attacked?

I am confused by your question. If they are good pushers 4.0+ (2 of them are) they won't have trouble hitting 20 deep slices in a row if they need to. I am always looking to attack but that doesn't mean that I will attack every single ball.

I was also talking hypothetically, I will not exchange 20 slices with a pusher, I won't play their game.

A couple of things to think about. A committed pusher wants to improve on being a better pusher. They love the game like anybody else but they know they can win with that style. I’m sure you know how hard it is to change/improve a stroke. Now can you imagine changing your entire game. Not gonna happen. Seniors that push have always played that way. Senior pushers have lost their movement and are easy to beat. Doesn’t make sense to try and become a senior pusher. That’s why they stick to doubles. Something else to ponder is their is a skill to pushing,

There is definitely great skill to pushing. I think a lot of people hate them but in the end of the day you just need to give them credit for being that good at what they are doing.

 

[TimeToPlaySets]

It takes a lot of work to develop an offensive game that is not a liability.
Many months of hitting 5x a week.

Pushers either do not think they can learn that game.
Or, they know when they try being aggressive they lose.

The pusher dominates 3.5 tennis because spazzz try to use aggressive strokes that are not ready for reliable match play.

As @nytennisaddict has said about pushers being the gatekeepers of 4.0,
you need to lose before you win. Most people are lured by the way.

To stop being a pusher, they would need to invest 3-6 months of drills to develop the proper strokes.
No one does that, so they keep doing what works and wins.

Most people never put in the work is takes to beat a pusher with offensive tennis.
Instead, they complain about the pusher, and stop playing him.
The true irony is that the person who does that is also not developing his game.

 

[Dartagnan64]

pushing equals consistent
all pros are pushers, they just hit a bit harder.

Disagree. Pushers will have (Winners + Unforced Errors) numbers in single digits for a set. Most pros will have much higher counts because they will make forcing shots that lead to errors or winners. A pusher will never make a forcing shot. A pro is consistent enough that he knows he can make more winners and forcing shots than unforced errors so he will push to that edge. A pusher stays far back of that edge knowing that he can win if he just never makes a mistake.

Look at Ostapenko in last years French Open final. In your wildest imagination you couldn't call her play "pushing". 54 Winners + 54 UE's in a 3 set match.

 

[Deleted member 23235]

Disagree. Pushers will have (Winners + Unforced Errors) numbers in single digits for a set. Most pros will have much higher counts because they will make forcing shots that lead to errors or winners. A pusher will never make a forcing shot. A pro is consistent enough that he knows he can make more winners and forcing shots than unforced errors so he will push to that edge. A pusher stays far back of that edge knowing that he can win if he just never makes a mistake.

Look at Ostapenko in last years French Open final. In your wildest imagination you couldn't call her play "pushing". 54 Winners + 54 UE's in a 3 set match.

If Ostapenko wanted to beat any one of us by just waiting for us to make a mistake... she could. would you still call her a pusher?
Pros who can hit winners is like having a higher gear... but they all have a "pusher" gear.... just later developed a "forced shot" gear.

 

[blakesq]

The only people who complain about pushers, are people who cannot beat pushers. And if you claim to be a 4.0 and you still can’t beat the pusher, then I doubt you really are a 4.0. So my advice to you is: get better so you can beat the pushers at your club.

 

[FedGR]

1.The only people who complain about pushers, are people who cannot beat pushers. 2. And if you claim to be a 4.0 and you still can’t be the pusher, then I doubt you really are a 4.0. 3. So my advice to you is: get better so you can beat the pushers at your club.

1. I didn't complain, I wrote multiple times that I appreciate them as they show me the gaps in my game.

2. I don't think I claimed to be a 4.0 even though I probably am at this point. When I am focused and my game is dialed in (and I am not in pain), I am probably a 4.5. Two different tennis coaches have said that. In a different public club in Chicago they bumped me from the 2nd highest to the 1st highest level of classes which is mostly ex-college kids and USTA 4.5+ players. They did it by themselves, I didn't ask for it.

If I still didn't convince you, if you are a 4.0-4.5 and life ever brings you to Chicago, I would be very happy to play 3 sets against you.

3. Thanks for the advice. This is what I've been doing the last year that I started playing tennis again.

 

[jmnk]

1. I didn't complain, I wrote multiple times that I appreciate them as they show me the gaps in my game.

2. I don't think I claimed to be a 4.0 even though I probably am at this point. When I am focused and my game is dialed in (and I am not in pain), I am probably a 4.5. Two different tennis coaches have said that. In a different public club in Chicago they bumped me from the 2nd highest to the 1st highest level of classes which is mostly ex-college kids and USTA 4.5+ players. They did it by themselves, I didn't ask for it.

If I still didn't convince you, if you are a 4.0-4.5 and life ever brings you to Chicago, I would be very happy to play 3 sets against you.

3. Thanks for the advice. This is what I've been doing the last year that I started playing tennis again.

hey, so now you are saying you are in Chicago? When are you available? Where do you play at?

 

[letstakeourshirtsoff]

pushers are a direct cause of today's girly racquets

 

[FedGR]

1st Challenger!! Yes sir. I live close to downtown, close to the lake. And I can always find time for tennis. DM me if you want to meet and play.

 

[jmnk]

1st Challenger!! Yes sir. I live close to downtown, close to the lake. And I can always find time for tennis. DM me if you want to meet and play.

ok, as soon as I'm done with the North California tour this weekend and checking those west coast dudes we'll set up something for sure.

 

[user92626]

OP,

I think you are probably frustrated and your thinking is clouded from all the losses. Listen, the discussion about "pushers" or how a particular, insinuated inferior player beating a better play is always convoluted and presents a big hole in logics.

If you think you have a game, by logic, those who beat you also have a game and even a better one.

"Do pushers understand that no matter how well they train and how good they are at a specific point in time, someone that trains equally hard and wants to learn more will eventually become better than them?"

You absolutely don't know that. You're guessing at best.

Go ahead and train and beat them, then you can claim that you're better due to such and such, but then it will only be valid for this particular case. There's really no universal formula.

However, going by your faulty logic, don't you already answer your own questions? If They have become better than you, know more, do more, control more than you can, do they not love the game? Do they not already want to control the ball and the game better?

(I got a slight dizziness whenever this topic is discussed since it's quite convoluted)

 

[FedGR]

OP,

I think you are probably frustrated and your thinking is clouded from all the losses. Listen, the discussion about "pushers" or how a particular, insinuated inferior player beating a better play is always convoluted and presents a big hole in logics.

Quite honestly, why would I be frustrated because of losing to a guy that has 16-1 record in the league? He is first in the league for a reason.

If you think you have a game, by logic, those who beat you also have a game and even a better one.

"Do pushers understand that no matter how well they train and how good they are at a specific point in time, someone that trains equally hard and wants to learn more will eventually become better than them?"

You absolutely don't know that. You're guessing at best.

I am not guessing, every coach out there, in person or youtube, will tell you "focus on the process, not the results" if you wanna improve. This is a fundamental of tennis. A pusher (that focuses mostly on winning and not improving) will eventually lose to a player that focuses mostly in the process of improving.

Go ahead and train and beat them, then you can claim that you're better due to such and such, but then it will only be valid for this particular case. There's really no universal formula.

I have no interest in claiming that I am better than anybody.

However, going by your faulty logic, don't you already answer your own questions? If They have become better than you, know more, do more, control more than you can, do they not love the game? Do they not already want to control the ball and the game better?

(I got a slight dizziness whenever this topic is discussed since it's quite convoluted)

You are calling my logic faulty however you don't understand 2 of the tennis fundamentals. The first is "focus on the process, not the results". The second " Between 2 players of the same level, the aggressor (usually wins)".

I don't have answers to my questions, just opinions, that's why I came to post here. To hear your opinions and feedback. And I believe the questions were answered by a couple of you that nailed it in the head.

Btw, I see you are a veteran in here. Do you mind describing your experience with tennis that makes you think that my logic is faulty? What is your level, current and peak? In comparison, I am a guy that claims to have played 5.5 tennis and will soon be a solid 4.5 (not the occasional that I am now).

The topic is indeed a hard topic, thanks for your feedback, it is definitely appreciated.

(btw I have responses in bold in your quoted message)