Pushers...again

[beltsman]

Okay so this is more about terminology. It seems to me a person is more of a pusher if they have the ability to play otherwise, but choose to push. At least, that's a greater sin, versus someone who is just too outclassed to do anything else and it's all they can do. I mean, if you got the best 5.0 player in the world, he would still appear to be pushing against Novak Djokovic.

So pusher is not an absolute term - it is relative to skill level. Pushing is the biggest sin when one has the ability but chooses to push regardless.

That's why when people say "there are no pro pushers," they are wrong. There are pro pushers, it's just at a higher skill level.

 

[user92626]

Oh man another stupid thread on pusher.

I never play my best and hardest just for any opponents, especially weak ones. There's an innate human instinct on energy management. It's also not fun to overdo anything.

 

[GuyClinch]

If you redefine pusher that way - I guess.

But in the real world a pusher is a guy who does not have proper strokes - and just 'pushes' the ball back - hence the name. It's usually a flat shot - with a bit of underspin and gravity does all the work. Pros almost never hit shots like that.. And they never lose to guys who hit like this. On the rec level - especially at 3.0 and 3.5 - people lose to gravity reliant players all the time. And it makes them crazy.

 

[user92626]

There's NO such thing as a "proper stroke".
You guys gonna keep confusing yourself and others if you keep up that belief.

There's only different degrees of effectiveness of strokes. And effectiveness is relative.

We rec players don't hit like the pros and the pros don't hit like us.

I and others have played money matches in which we employed completely unorthodox strokes, example both hands on the racket on every hit (except the serve), to level the playing field. The ball was still being played the same and great fun.

 

[Gazelle]

The term pusher is indeed relative to the skill level, that is to the opponents skill level. When a guy is not good enough to hit through a defensive player, he might think of him as a pusher. But when a far better player plays that 'pusher', he hits him off the court and the pusher is just a noob.

 

[GuyClinch]

There's NO such thing as a "proper stroke".
You guys gonna keep confusing yourself and others if you keep up that belief.

I think you are the one that's confused about this.. There are many ways to hit a tennis ball - and most of them are bad.. You can learn correct technique or be a hack. I think I know where you stand..

 

[SoBad]

If you lose to pushers, quit playing them and develop partnerships with hard hitters, so you can win a fair share.

 

[10isMaestro]

1. I would agree qith Guyclinch here to some extent. The term "pusher" refers to the gesture employed in striking the ball because it seems like they're not striking as much as they're pushing the ball.
2. Tennis comes with limitations and there are ways to achieve certain more probing results with consistency and others that might do it less consistently. Hitting properly in this context means doing the first sort of thing: adopting habits that make it easier to get results consistently while possibly improving. As someone pointed out, pushing the ball works well until players become consistent. Then, they don't miss easily enough to give up matches to pushers and they hit hard enough to beat them -- try as you might, you can't outrun the ball.
3. If sending sloppy strokes down the middle of the court is enough to win a match, you're an idiot if you take useless risks by doing more. Your opponent is the one who should force you to do more than send soft sitters, not you.
4. If you have trouble with pushers, face facts: something IS wrong about your game. Keeping ubforced errors so high that you give up an entire match means your game blows. Your footwork could be poor, your strokes and preparation could be wrong or you could be playing silly by trying to do too much. Anyhow, you need to figure out the problem.

 

[GuyClinch]

The term pusher is indeed relative to the skill level, that is to the opponents skill level. When a guy is not good enough to hit through a defensive player, he might think of him as a pusher. But when a far better player plays that 'pusher', he hits him off the court and the pusher is just a noob.

I have heard this before - and personally I think this is something that people preach to make bad tennis players feel better. You can be a very strong defensive player (like a Hewitt in his youth) and you still are not a pusher. If you have full complete strokes and use your body properly - you are not pushing. Pushing refers to a particular stroking pattern - that's used by beginners and players who have not developed proper technique yet. Believing that guys like Murray and the like are pushers and thus like the 3.0 hacks at your club is a ruse designed to sell books at the like..

Yes sure they both focus on 'defense' but your club hack has poor footwork (mostly just stand open stance - no split step etc) no forehand, no backhand, no serve, no overhead - basically no strokes at all. Whereas the pro hits all those shots - and hits them well. Just because their STRONGEST ability is defense - suddenly they are just like the hack? Yeah not buying it.

 

[user92626]

I think you are the one that's confused about this.. There are many ways to hit a tennis ball - and most of them are bad.. You can learn correct technique or be a hack. I think I know where you stand..

I'm a hack to a pro but Federer-like to old men, women and newbies. They literally can't deal with my FH.

I think you're the confused one. You simply replied with a cryptic post, nothing new developed. Go ahead and tell me what correct technique is and what "a hack" is.

 

[user92626]

The term pusher is indeed relative to the skill level, that is to the opponents skill level. When a guy is not good enough to hit through a defensive player, he might think of him as a pusher. But when a far better player plays that 'pusher', he hits him off the court and the pusher is just a noob.

That's right. Pusher over time has become a negative term usually used by the loser to describe his winning opponent. When a sore loser runs out of excuses for his lose, he tends to turn the focus to "style", "technique" or whatever and the argument goes in an illogical circle.

 

[GuyClinch]

That's right. Pusher over time has become a negative term usually used by the loser to describe his winning opponent. When a sore loser runs out of excuses for his lose, he tends to turn the focus to "style", "technique" or whatever and the argument goes in an illogical circle.

True. But we should not let the word be redefined.

loser definition:
Pusher: anyone who beats you on the tennis court without hitting nothing but winners..

This is bad - and I blame Brad Gilbert. Pusher the word has real meaning. It comes from a player who pushes the ball - and guides the racquet - rather then someone who swings out and whips the racquet at the ball - in a sort of throw. This is how good players hit the ball. The pushing style is common among beginners and players who want to show you how bad you are at tennis..

 

[sez]

To say there is no such thing as a proper stroke, is you taking a misguided idea about pushing and trying to fit it into your idea of tennis. Tennis is built on proper strokes, and while unorthodox strokes can win eventually they hit a cap that can only be surpassed by correct technique. No one past 4.0 can push the ball and expect good results unless they are exceptional athletes. Defensive tennis does not have a cap, players who cannot generate pace with good technique or choose to play percentage can go very far but they are not pushers.