Pushers Anonymous (Pushers Only!)

Mr.Lob

Mr.Lob

G.O.A.T.
Mr. Lob: Hello TT,
I just wanted to say that I'm a pusher, and I'm here tonight to stand up for the rights of other pushers. I mean uh, all our lives we've been laughed at and made to feel inferior. And tonight, those *******s, they trashed our style of play. Why? Cause we're consistent? Cause we don't hit as hard? Well we dont. Big deal. I'm a pusher, and uh, I'm pretty proud of it.

Visitor #1: Hello Mr. Lob. I'm a pusher too. I just found that out tonight. We have news for the mindless ball bashers, there's a lot more of us than there are of you. I know there's other pushers in this big beautiful forum of ours. When you first went to Talk Tennis you might've been called a spazz, or a dork, or a "gasp" pusher. Any of you that have ever felt stepped on, left out, picked on, put down, whether you think you're a pusher or not, why don't you just come in here and join us. Okay? Come on.

Mr Lob host: Just join us cos uh, no-one's gonna really be free until pusher persecution ends.

Please... pushers of this great forum. No more lurking. As Amelio wants... let's come out of the closet. It's time to let the ball bashers know we are tennis players too. We are pushers... and proud of it. We will post in great numbers. We will support each other in good times and bad. We will lob, we will run, we will dink, moonball... lob some more, and win 7-5 in the third.

This discussion is for support, pusher strategies, tips on how to beat a ball basher, pusher fashion, and pusher recipes.

Now... who would like to start?
 
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Against ball bashers, hit steady, solid, high shots to their weaker wing. If they have a big weapon like an inside out forehand, try to use slice or junk or loop it up high. Move well and get to everything.
 
Mr. Lob, thank you for starting this thread.

I'm a self-rated 6.5 pusher. I have recently pushed through qualifying rounds and pushed so hard against Federer's backhand that I won a service game.

I hope that you can be a role model for pushers everywhere, that others may come out from the closet so we pusher-haters know whom to bash mwahahahaha
Best of luck in your endeavors! :)
 
Hi, Mr.Lob. I am a pusher. I play collegiate tennis at 5.5 level.
 
(Seriously tho, I don't mind playing against any style. Pushers are fun to play against. They usually don't have a big serve, you get a good work-out, and they hate to lose when their style doesn't work.)
 
GuyClinch said:
Pusher's shouldn't be proud. My forehand sometimes is a push and it makes me angry.. Must fix forehand..
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You become angry because you are denying your inner pusher self. Stay true to the pusher inside of you, it speaks louder than Sharapova s grunts.
 
Welcome memyselfandi, Namibia,slowfox, Mongol.

I like the honesty and self awareness going on with some of you.
This can only help you be a better player on the court.
 
The pusher debate is really ridiculous. Every player should know how to push and look at it as a tactic, just like serve and volley, chip and charge or any other tactic. If you're playing style or game plan isn't working and you're getting spanked, pushing changes the pace, keeps you in points, and extends the set/match. It's smart.

Now, if you're not good enough to do anything else than push, well, that's better than sitting on the couch eating Doritos IMO, so good for you!
 
Everybody hates pushers, but its a right of passage as you progress from 3.0 to 4.5. I lost to them for a while before I finally learned how to beat them (which mainly consisted of knowing how to put away drop shots, hitting high to the backhand and coming in and being patient.)

It's frustrating to lose to a pusher, but you have to go through it and eventually you'll leave them behind. Nowadays, I never want to play one again, but if I do, they will stand in awe of my power and quickly succumb with a diet of breadsticks and bagels.
 
I'm trying to get a special guest star pusher to come in to speak with our group. I'm putting out the word to world renowned, former pro and giant killer... the king of push...Bad Brad Gilbert!
 
Hello fellow pushers. A fellow member wrote me.

"Mr. Lob I must admit, and hope I'm not thrown out of the club for saying this, but I have been trying to go against my natural instinct to push. I've been trying to be more of a ball basher."
"I find this pushing "habit" difficult to change, especially when the pressure is on in a tight match. So what do you think? Accept the pusher inside myself, devout more time to being a ball basher... or end it all?"

Hmmm, a desperate call for help. Any suggestions for this misguided TT member?
 
I like pushing because I hate the obvious. Some young guy, cap on backwards, probably, taking a huge cut at every ball, and it's obvious that he hits hard. For most people, that's enough for them to think, "What a great player". I saw a guy like that in a 4.5 tournament, but then I noticed his error ratio was about 1:1. He'll just beat himself. Sure enough, he got killed in his match. What a dork! He's like a basketball player who takes outside shots all the time. That's never going to be percentage scoring, even though he thinks he's a stud when one goes in.

A good pusher is hard to spot. Someone who returns 95% of the shots is a decent pusher, but one who returns 99% is a great one. The second one will win points in a 5:1 ratio against the first. But most people would see them as equals.

What's great about pushers is that they show deluded people how weak their game really is.
 
Steady Eddy said:
I like pushing because I hate the obvious. Some young guy, cap on backwards, probably, taking a huge cut at every ball, and it's obvious that he hits hard. For most people, that's enough for them to think, "What a great player". I saw a guy like that in a 4.5 tournament, but then I noticed his error ratio was about 1:1. .
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Oh so true. We have guy at my club, like the guy you describe, hits the ball hard, but very erratic. Big ego. Dresses and wears hair like Delpo. He asks to hit with me, says he'll take it easy on me... and he was serious. I outrallied him most of the time. He'd usually end up hitting into the net or the back curtain. Looked pretty good when he could string a few big shots together... which was not that often.
 
I wish I had the stamina, the intelligence, the speed and the patience to be a pusher. My game would be 4.5 if I did.

*sob* I'm not even good enough to be a member of the pushers club. *sob*
 
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As someone said, being a pusher should be just like any other strategy and everyone should have that strategy mastered. At club level there are a crapload of dorks that just because they discovered they are able to hit a powerful winner once in many tries they think they are better than they really are. Some really think they are great players and had just "a bad day". (almost every day).


So you should always be a pusher against players like those in tournaments. Just let them self-destruct. Just 2 years ago I was playing a regional tournament and my opponent was a fence-basher so I did what I should do and was beating him 4-1 when he told me: Hah, I took a bit longer to realize you're a limited player. I'll mirror you now! Lets see.

I laughed after every point in the following 4 games, then he took his stuff and left the court without saying anything.

He managed to ban me from the club, tho. When my state federation does tournaments there I can't participate.
 
Hitting balls cross court might be a tactic - but pushing isn't. Pushing is ****** technique and gravity reliant strokes.

Not only shouldn't players push - but players would be better off learning proper technique and missing - rather then learning quickly how to get the ball back in with compromised technique..

Of course the pusher agenda is to claim every player who hits tatically sound shots (say a neutral rally ball) as one of their own. The real truth is that the only time a pro pushes is when the are forced to do one of those squash shots on the run.. Truth is you could play an entire match and never try to hit a single 'winner' and not be pushing. Percentage tennis is just that - its percentage tennis. Pushing is the stuff that makes your eyes bleed..
 
Maximagq- I use to hate running. Now that I'm in decent shape... bring it on. I'll play all day long.

Winstonlime8- Don't cry. One day you will become a great pusher. Have faith.

JanowictzJ- Great example of how a pushing strategy can defeat the false bravado of a ball basher. Getting banned for laughing? Sounds like the guy probably had friends in high places.

Pushers, in general, seem to know their game better. We don't like to give away free points. If you're playing to win... you adapt, improvise and overcome. Just like the Marines. :-)
 
GuyClinch said:
Hitting balls cross court might be a tactic - but pushing isn't. Pushing is ****** technique and gravity reliant strokes.

Not only shouldn't players push - but players would be better off learning proper technique and missing - rather then learning quickly how to get the ball back in with compromised technique..

Of course the pusher agenda is to claim every player who hits tatically sound shots (say a neutral rally ball) as one of their own. The real truth is that the only time a pro pushes is when the are forced to do one of those squash shots on the run.. Truth is you could play an entire match and never try to hit a single 'winner' and not be pushing. Percentage tennis is just that - its percentage tennis. Pushing is the stuff that makes your eyes bleed..
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Back in February you wrote that sometimes your forehand is a push, that it makes you angry, and you need to fix it. Perhaps you'd like to share a little more on the conflicting emotions you have with that forehand, and the influence it has on your technique and performance?
 
Mr.Lob said:
Winstonlime8- Don't cry. One day you will become a great pusher. Have faith.
Click to expand...

I am afraid I'm too fat to run down balls, I'm too impatient to wait for my opponent to make a mistake and I'm too vain to knuckle down and grind.

*sob*sob*sob* I don't have any hope of being even a rookie pusher, let alone a great one no matter how long I play.

I do like playing against pushers though because it provides a reality check. Every time I think I am on the way to being a 4-pointer, my pusher friends are happy to keep me grounded in reality.

Playing against them forces me to focus on hitting everything correctly, developing each point properly and placing every shot accurately. If I ever make it to 4.0, it's my pusher friends I have to thank.
 
Pushers… Easy to beat if it truly is a pusher (at most mediocre balls into the middle of the court).

I just start trashballing, sidespin, extreme slice/topspin, random drop shots and loopy balls, net attacks, etc.

Give them no rhythm and watch them get frustrated.

Some people though are called pushers although they are counter-punchers. These are significantly harder to beat.
 
winstonlim8 said:
I do like playing against pushers though because it provides a reality check. Every time I think I am on the way to being a 4-pointer, my pusher friends are happy to keep me grounded in reality.

Playing against them forces me to focus on hitting everything correctly, developing each point properly and placing every shot accurately. If I ever make it to 4.0, it's my pusher friends I have to thank.
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The best players have pace and consistency. They don't sacrifice consistency for pace. If you have to do that, you're just not there yet. They need to play a pusher to see that their hard shots don't do enough damage to compensate for the UEs.

Their selective memory confuses their assessment of their game. But the pusher collects all their errors as points and they see the bitter truth, i.e. that a guy waddling around the court can beat them badly. Instead of realizing that they've got a ways to go, they instead blame the pusher of playing unfairly. Like you say, it's really doing them a favor.
 
^^When I was as new to tennis as you are, I was delighted anytime I put a ball in play. It usually won the point for me also, as my opponent usually could not return anything. (He was as bad as me). Some people start hitting the ball too hard, too soon. They make many errors, but believe that they have become good players. When they lose to a player who hits slow but is consistent they are surprised and angry that they lost to someone who doesn't hit as hard as they do.

Some blame the "pusher" and not themselves for the loss. But that doesn't really make sense.
 
I confess I do push. It is a very powerful weapon against certain players. Take today, I played singles against a typical big hitting player, low flat serve, very flat forehand, and goes for the lines.

All I did was hit loads of spin serves, send everything back, slice any short balls, and watch my poor opponent blow up and lose. I even managed to outpush a pusher who use to torment me in my my ball bashing days.

The problem is it doesn't work against better players. I tried it against an all court player, and he destroyed me. He would rally, get everything back and then hit a winner.

For that match I had to play different style, lots of deep ground strokes, I lost 7-5, but if I pushed I would have lost 6-0.

Still I will use it if my opponent is rubbish, because it is the easiest way to win.
 
TheM@trix said:
I just started playing tennis, 2 weeks ago.
This Pusher thing, is this something serious, or just a joke?
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Oh it is serious, players when they first start out develope big strokes practicing, maybe even a big serve. They win a few matches against players like themselves.

Then they see a joke of a player, who just pokes the ball back, no power, weird serve you would never see in a textbook. This player suggests the play a match, the new player thinks why not, lets humour the guy, and thinks best not beat this useless joke 6-0.

Then they start playing, and suddenly the joke player is thrashing them. The joke players shot are still slow and weird, but the new players shots don't worker. The pusher pulls them close to the net, gives them no pace never misses.

The player who looks like a joke wins 6-0, the lesson being that tennis matches are won on mistakes, not winners for the most part. Pushers have a very safe risk free game, and force their opponents to take all the risks.
 
Steady Eddy said:
The best players have pace and consistency. They don't sacrifice consistency for pace. If you have to do that, you're just not there yet. They need to play a pusher to see that their hard shots don't do enough damage to compensate for the UEs.

Their selective memory confuses their assessment of their game. But the pusher collects all their errors as points and they see the bitter truth, i.e. that a guy waddling around the court can beat them badly. Instead of realizing that they've got a ways to go, they instead blame the pusher of playing unfairly. Like you say, it's really doing them a favor.
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I don't have real power so I can't even dream of blowing my pusher friends off court. So the only way I can play well enough to avoid a bagel or cheese stick is to focus on hitting correctly, moving them in all directions until I've got one side of the court opened up or I force a short, weak return that I can volley/smash easily.

I seldom beat my pusher friends because it is very difficult for me to stay focused that long, I hate long rallies and after 5 minutes of chasing down and returning endless paceless balls, I'm gasping for air - not the best way of figuring out and implementing on the spot strategy, I assure you.

But playing my pusher friends is wonderful training for doing as many things right and doing them over and over again, as I can. And it beats jogging mindlessly for hours, too.
 
Back in February you wrote that sometimes your forehand is a push, that it makes you angry, and you need to fix it. Perhaps you'd like to share a little more on the conflicting emotions you have with that forehand, and the influence it has on your technique and performance?
Click to expand...

I have been getting professional help with my forehand - trying to transform it into a real pro-style shot. So I can avoid pushing..

Pushing comes from wanting to win points and being willing to sacrifice proper form for the immediate gratification of victory.

It's not a badge of honor - and pros don't push (cept on the very occasional squash shot or the between your legs shot).

Pros hit the percentage safe shot but with at least 50-60% effort and the ball has good spin, pace and its hit with a full complete stroke. That's not a push..

Pushing is a tennis dead end that way too many people go down. My advice - seek help and get out while you can. No one likes pushers likes playing them - and pushers don't often like the game itself.
 
I find the saying winning ugly is better than losing beautifully only applies for pros, who make their living that way.

For us who play tennis for the fun pushing is… A dead end of disappointment. The mere fact that you feel the need to commit a thread to pushers shows your insecurity and inner dislike for your own game style.
 
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SpinToWin said:
I find the saying winning ugly is better than losing beautifully only applies for pros, who make their living that way.

For us who play tennis for the fun pushing is… A dead end of disappointment. The mere fact that you feel the need to commit a thread to pushers shows your insecurity and inner dislike for your own game style.
Click to expand...

You sound like a egomaniac who equates his/her masculinity to a certain style of tennis? We here at Pushers Anonymous frown upon such generalizations and stereotypes, of the different playing styles. One plays tennis for one's own enjoyment, not their opponents. If playing a pusher aggravates you so much... take up golf. As noted in our pushers charter, there are a lot more of us than there are of you.
 
JanowiczJ said:
At club level there are a crapload of dorks that just because they discovered they are able to hit a powerful winner once in many tries they think they are better than they really are. Some really think they are great players and had just "a bad day". (almost every day).
Click to expand...

I'll never understand these guys. Major unforced errors. Whenever I play them, more time is spent picking up balls than actually hitting around. Starting to think I should just stop playing with them. No fun at all. If someone wants to be a ball basher, fine. But at least get the darn ball in...!
 
You sound like a egomaniac who equates his/her masculinity to a certain style of tennis? We here at Pushers Anonymous frown upon such generalizations and stereotypes, of the different playing styles. One plays tennis for one's own enjoyment, not their opponents. If playing a pusher aggravates you so much... take up golf. As noted in our pushers charter, there are a lot more of us than there are of you.
Click to expand...

Eh..you must be from a cold weather state.. Pushers aren't that common - if you get decent training. I saw plenty of pushing in NYC parks - where lessons are expensive and court time is hard to get..

But here in norcal even the 3.0s are trying to hit good shots with good pace - and play the game the right way.

The reason why pushing is in fact a dead end is that you are just practicing a style that's ultimately limited.

With every ball that's hit to you - you can - quickly move into very good postion using proper footwork and then execute a full complete stroke..

Or alternative you can just stand in 'racquet range' and dink the ball back - only moving if the ball is out of your reach..

What some coaches don't tell you is that option 2 is often better at winning points. There is a lot of moving parts in a textbook style stroke - and pushers are adept at just stickin their racquet out there and getting the ball to go back over.

Here is the problem - that big swinging idiot you hate - if he is truly committed to improving his tennis will fix the problem. He will learn to get into proper position and he will learn to hit the ball with good pace but not just launch it..randomnly. He is working on playing the game the right way.

The pusher OTOH - you come back in five years and a lot of them will still be pushers - especially the guys that think its some kind of badge of honor.

Pusher's anon should be discussing ways to get over the addiction of pushing and learning to put good technique ahead of short term glory.

If you want to play good tennis - you have to practice playing good tennis. That sounds stupid - but I believe its the truth. If you kinda go out there and hope that magically your pushing will evolve into real tennis you are going to be disappointed.
 
Mr.Lob said:
You sound like a egomaniac who equates his/her masculinity to a certain style of tennis? We here at Pushers Anonymous frown upon such generalizations and stereotypes, of the different playing styles. One plays tennis for one's own enjoyment, not their opponents. If playing a pusher aggravates you so much... take up golf. As noted in our pushers charter, there are a lot more of us than there are of you.
Click to expand...

I never spoke about my enjoyment when playing pushers mind you. I quite enjoy playing pushers. It's like an extra training session for me. Try some new strategies and playing styles and win comfortably. Not much I can complain about.

I was discussing how it feels playing like a pusher. Everyone had that stage at one point, as did I as a junior. There was nothing more frustrating for me than not being able to play winners. It felt like I was playing bad tennis and I was ashamed of my level, especially when people complimented me for my win. So I started working on my tennis and now I am somewhat content (though as a perfectionist, I will never be completely satisfied). There is no greater satisfaction than playing a beautiful winner.
 
GuyClinch said:
Eh..you must be from a cold weather state.. Pushers aren't that common - if you get decent training. I saw plenty of pushing in NYC parks - where lessons are expensive and court time is hard to get..

But here in norcal even the 3.0s are trying to hit good shots with good pace - and play the game the right way.

The reason why pushing is in fact a dead end is that you are just practicing a style that's ultimately limited.

With every ball that's hit to you - you can - quickly move into very good postion using proper footwork and then execute a full complete stroke..

Or alternative you can just stand in 'racquet range' and dink the ball back - only moving if the ball is out of your reach..

What some coaches don't tell you is that option 2 is often better at winning points. There is a lot of moving parts in a textbook style stroke - and pushers are adept at just stickin their racquet out there and getting the ball to go back over.

Here is the problem - that big swinging idiot you hate - if he is truly committed to improving his tennis will fix the problem. He will learn to get into proper position and he will learn to hit the ball with good pace but not just launch it..randomnly. He is working on playing the game the right way.

The pusher OTOH - you come back in five years and a lot of them will still be pushers - especially the guys that think its some kind of badge of honor.

Pusher's anon should be discussing ways to get over the addiction of pushing and learning to put good technique ahead of short term glory.

If you want to play good tennis - you have to practice playing good tennis. That sounds stupid - but I believe its the truth. If you kinda go out there and hope that magically your pushing will evolve into real tennis you are going to be disappointed.
Click to expand...

Spoken truly. Amen
 
There is a difference between push strokes and a "pushing" style of play. The former will hinder a player's long-term development, but the latter is perfectly acceptable, no matter how frustrating it is to opponents.
 
Topspin Shot said:
There is a difference between push strokes and a "pushing" style of play. The former will hinder a player's long-term development, but the latter is perfectly acceptable, no matter how frustrating it is to opponents.
Click to expand...

I believe you may be confusing a counter-puncher and a pusher.
 
GuyClinch said:
Eh..you must be from a cold weather state.. Pushers aren't that common - if you get decent training. I saw plenty of pushing in NYC parks - where lessons are expensive and court time is hard to get..

But here in norcal even the 3.0s are trying to hit good shots with good pace - and play the game the right way.

The reason why pushing is in fact a dead end is that you are just practicing a style that's ultimately limited.

With every ball that's hit to you - you can - quickly move into very good postion using proper footwork and then execute a full complete stroke..

Or alternative you can just stand in 'racquet range' and dink the ball back - only moving if the ball is out of your reach..

What some coaches don't tell you is that option 2 is often better at winning points. There is a lot of moving parts in a textbook style stroke - and pushers are adept at just stickin their racquet out there and getting the ball to go back over.

Here is the problem - that big swinging idiot you hate - if he is truly committed to improving his tennis will fix the problem. He will learn to get into proper position and he will learn to hit the ball with good pace but not just launch it..randomnly. He is working on playing the game the right way.

The pusher OTOH - you come back in five years and a lot of them will still be pushers - especially the guys that think its some kind of badge of honor.

Pusher's anon should be discussing ways to get over the addiction of pushing and learning to put good technique ahead of short term glory.

If you want to play good tennis - you have to practice playing good tennis. That sounds stupid - but I believe its the truth. If you kinda go out there and hope that magically your pushing will evolve into real tennis you are going to be disappointed.
Click to expand...

Everyone's definition of "pusher" seems to be different. I don't dink the ball over. I take full swings at the ball and hit moderately paced deep balls. I can hit hard fairly well, but often choose not to. Good forehand I can hit flat or with topspin, also hit an inside out forehand. Have a flat two handed backhand. Working on one handed slice. Short balls I'll come in and take the net. Love smashing overheads. Good first serve, a pushers second serve. Come in on me and I can hit a passing shot or lob. Good movement. So while I can play all styles fairly decently, I'm probably a pusher at heart, because I don't go for winners that often and will let my opponent take most of the risks.
 
Grinding is the best style in today's game with the two best players in the world Djokovic and Nadal being the preeminent powers of modern tennis.
 
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