Pushing as a viable strategy?

bamafan07

bamafan07

New User
I've been really focusing on my game lately, and I'm wondering if pushing is actually a viable strategy. I don't mean just tapping and lobbing it in but actually pushing. I hear a lot of hate around it but at my level (~3 UTR) it seems like it would be a good strategy. Most of the players I play (including myself) usually play pretty aggressive and try to end the point as fast as possible, but I wonder if I could be winning a lot more of my matches if I just hit the ball back. Not really the type of pusher people think of, but more of a very defensive style of play. What are y'all's thoughts on it? Should I continue playing aggressive? Or maybe try the pusher/defense play-style?
 
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“Pusher” is what people who lose to consistent players call them. Work on your strokes but absolutely go for consistency over power if you are fast and don’t get tired easily. Counterpunchers and defensive players win at all levels of the game. Novak could be called a counterpuncher.
 
bamafan07 said:
I've been really focusing on my game lately, and I'm wondering if pushing is actually a viable strategy. I don't mean just tapping and lobbing it in but actually pushing. I hear a lot of hate around it but at my level (~3 UTR) it seems like it would be a good strategy. Most of the players I play (including myself) usually play pretty aggressive and try to end the point as fast as possible, but I wonder if I could be winning a lot more of my matches if I just hit the ball back. Not really the type of pusher people think of, but more of a very defensive style of play. What are y'all's thoughts on it? Should I continue playing aggressive like I should? Or maybe try the pusher/defense play-style?
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You don't want to become an exclusively defensive player - besides, that's not much fun! But trying to hit winners from the backcourt is a losing method for most of us. Instead of looking for raw power, learn to hit volleys, crosscourt winners off short balls, and dropshots. When you first try this you'll probably lose, but don't get discouraged. You'll improve, and then have the satisfaction of being able to do more than just punch the ball back.
 
So it sounds like pushing is kind of like a cheap strategy but counter-punching is a more acceptable defensive style?
 
At all levels, the winning players know what they can reliably execute and base their game plan around that. If you take lessons and have proper technique, the game plan can include offensive shots, hard serves, aggressive shots, net play etc. that you might be able to execute consistently.

But if you don’t take lessons, it is highly unlikely that you can execute an offensive plan effectively and reliably. So, the winning self-taught players typically are all counterpunchers at lower levels.

I don’t think match play is where shots are improved - that should be done through purposeful practice sessions and drills. If you have self-taught unconventional technique and you don’t practice, your ceiling is low and you will never improve enough to be a winning offensive player. So, you might as well push and win.

The alternative is to improve properly by taking weekly or at least biweekly lessons, learning proper footwork/technique and scheduling many practices between matches for at least 2-3 years. If you do that, your chance of improving further through match play is greater. Otherwise you’ll spend your whole life complaining about pushers or being one yourself - that is just the bitter truth for the vast majority of rec players.

I am not a believer that hitting a lot of bad technique shots in matches or playing with a heavy racquet or the right racquet or poly strings will magically improve anybody’s tennis much after the first year or two. Improving only through match play without proper fundamentals is really, really hard.
 
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socallefty said:
At all levels, the winning players know what they can reliably execute and base their game plan around that. If you take lessons and have proper technique, the game plan can include offensive shots, hard serves, aggressive shots, net play etc. that you might be able to execute consistently.

But if you don’t take lessons, it is highly unlikely that you can execute an offensive plan effectively and reliably. So, the winning self-taught players typically are all counterpunchers at lower levels.

I don’t think match play is where shots are improved - that should be done through purposeful practice sessions and drills. If you have self-taught unconventional technique and you don’t practice, your ceiling is low and you will never improve enough to be a winning offensive player. So, you might as well push and win.

The alternative is to improve properly by taking weekly or at least biweekly lessons, learning proper footwork/technique and scheduling many practices between matches for at least 2-3 years. If you do that, your chance of improving further through match play is greater. Otherwise you’ll spend your whole life complaining about pushers or being one yourself - that is just the bitter truth for the vast majority of rec players.

I am not a believer that hitting a lot of bad technique shots in matches or playing with a heavy racquet or the ‘right’ racquet or poly strings will magically improve anybody’s tennis much after the first year or two.
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I think I just misunderstood the meaning of pusher. I didn't realize it was pretty much just dinking it, I though it was just a more defensive style. I currently take lessons and am on a high school team, so I get a lot of help. When I said pusher I thought that meant just sacrificing power for consistency, not going into a match without a plan or anything. It seems like counter-punching is defensive but still is able to use aggressive and attacking shots, correct? I'm asking these questions because I feel that I am at the point that I should stick to one play-style and focus on how I can improve in the areas that complement that play-style.
 
socallefty said:
At all levels, the winning players know that what they can reliably execute and base their game plan around that. If you take lessons and have proper technique, the game plan can include offensive shots, hard serves, aggressive shots, net play etc. that you might be able to execute consistently.

But if you don’t take lessons, it is highly unlikely that you can execute an offensive plan effectively and reliably. So, the winning self-taught players typically are all counterpunchers at lower levels.

I don’t think match play is where shots are improved - that should be done through purposeful practice sessions and drills. If you have self-taught unconventional technique and you don’t practice, your ceiling is low and you will never improve enough to be a winning offensive player. So, you might as well push and win.

The alternative is to improve properly by taking weekly or at least biweekly lessons, learning proper footwork/technique and scheduling many practices between matches for at least 2-3 years. If you do that, your chance of improving further through match play is greater. Otherwise you’ll spend your whole life complaining about pushers or being one yourself - that is just the bitter truth for the vast majority of rec players.

I am not a believer that hitting a lot of bad technique shots in matches or playing with a heavy racquet or the right racquet or poly strings will magically improve anybody’s tennis much after the first year or two. Improving only through match play without proper fundamentals is really, really hard.
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Really good post Coach. I think you're right for modern players. I played College tennis in the 80s, Coastal Carolina Univ., and to this day have never had a lesson. I'm a serve and volley player so, I don't really have a lot of decisions to make when playing.
A good counterpuncher can give anybody trouble. I think most good players at 4.0 and below are pushers/counterpunchers.+ Above 4.0 they have a few weapons.
 
bamafan07 said:
I think I just misunderstood the meaning of pusher. I didn't realize it was pretty much just dinking it, I though it was just a more defensive style. I currently take lessons and am on a high school team, so I get a lot of help. When I said pusher I thought that meant just sacrificing power for consistency, not going into a match without a plan or anything. It seems like counter-punching is defensive but still is able to use aggressive and attacking shots, correct? I'm asking these questions because I feel that I am at the point that I should stick to one play-style and focus on how I can improve in the areas that complement that play-style.
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A good counterpuncher or pusher makes fewer errors than their opponent. They rarely hit harder than a medium pace.
 
I’m a self-taught player who started with a mostly all-out attack net-rushing style, and gradually integrated pushing/counterpunching/moonballing/defensive strategies into my repertoire. I firmly believe there are shortcuts and my story is proof.

I started playing at age 15 on the jv high school team and didn’t take lessons, but started playing tournaments at age 16 and hated losing, so I just did what worked best with my skills. I built my game around my explosive jump serve and ability to anticipate at net Yannick Noah style. I won my first 4.5 adult tourney by age 17, my first 5.0 tourney by age 21, my first singles open prize money by 24, and my first doubles open prize check by age 30. By then I was still all-in on attacking the net on my serve games, but pushing/moonballing to steal return games.

Then when I got older, I had to get better at playing defensive/counterpunching tennis, with more selective forays into the net.

Never really learned how to hit a proper forehand. But I knew how to win a point.

I’m a believer that trying to learn attacking baseline tennis is the least efficient way to get good fast. That’s what everyone else does, and there are shortcuts to get ahead of the pack. I certainly wouldn’t have had as successful a rec career as I had if I had taken a more conventional tennis development path. Shortcuts exist. Just got to focus on getting really good at one thing that nobody else can do as well.
 
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travlerajm said:
I’m a self-taught player who started with a mostly all-out attack net-rushing style, and gradually integrated pushing/counterpunching/moonballing/defensive strategies into my repertoire. I firmly believe there are shortcuts and my story is proof.

I started playing at age 15 on the jv high school team and didn’t take lessons, but started playing tournaments at age 16 and hated losing, so I just did what worked best with my skills. I built my game around my explosive jump serve and ability to anticipate at net Yannick Noah style. I won my first 4.5 adult tourney by age 17, my first 5.0 tourney by age 21, my first singles open prize money by 24, and my first doubles open prize check by age 30. By then I was still all-in on attacking the net on my serve games, but pushing/moonballing to steal return games.

Then when I got older, I had to get better at playing defensive/counterpunching tennis, with more selective forays into the net.

Never really learned how to hit a proper forehand. But I knew how to win a point.

I’m a believer that trying to learn attacking baseline tennis is the least efficient way to get good fast. That’s what everyone else does, and there are shortcuts to get ahead of the pack. I certainly wouldn’t have had as successful a rec career as I had if I had taken a more conventional tennis development path. Shortcuts exist. Just got to focus on getting really good at one thing that nobody else can do as well.
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You made some great progress through the years. I've never had very good groundstrokes, eastern grip and OHBH, so I've had to rely on S&V over the years. I'm too old (60) to change now.
 
Bill Lobsalot said:
You made some great progress through the years. I've never had very good groundstrokes, eastern grip and OHBH, so I've had to rely on S&V over the years. I'm too old (60) to change now.
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My serve got worse in my 30s. I took a year off and came back, but my serve did not.

So suddenly S&V wasn’t working any more. I had to reinvent my style in my mid 30s, and didn’t get back to near my previous level until my mid 40s, steadier but less dangerous than before, and worse at doubles than before. I was never going to be good at bashing forehands, but using a lot of wall practice and racquet tweaking, I found ways to shovel the ball in the right direction well enough to stay alive.
 
bamafan07 said:
It seems like counter-punching is defensive but still is able to use aggressive and attacking shots, correct? I'm asking these questions because I feel that I am at the point that I should stick to one play-style and focus on how I can improve in the areas that complement that play-style.
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If you have a coach, consult with your coach on what style to adopt for specific matches. In general don’t try to hit too many shots beyond your capabilities where your chance of missing is high - the %s won’t be in your favor. If you develop some weapons for your level like serve, FH, net game etc. where you can force many errors or hit winners while staying within your comfort zone of shot tolerance, then you’ll have more options of play style and strategy.

Many kids who win a lot don’t have too many weapons till they are 11-12+ in age (when they start getting physically stronger) and until then they win with consistency and depth. Learn to generate a lot of topspin on serves and shots as this will give you control to hit to smaller targets closer to the lines and as you get stronger, you can hit harder without missing.
 
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travlerajm said:
I’m a believer that trying to learn attacking baseline tennis is the least efficient way to get good fast. That’s what everyone else does, and there are shortcuts to get ahead of the pack. I certainly wouldn’t have had as successful a rec career as I had if I had taken a more conventional tennis development path. Shortcuts exist. Just got to focus on getting really good at one thing that nobody else can do as well.
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One can attack either from the baseline or the net. Makes more sense to do it from the net. However, people start by playing from the baseline so prefer to just build on that.

Comparing it to basketball, playing aggressively from the baseline is like shooting 30 footers. Too hard to do consistently. Instead, be patient and wait for an easy lay-up. That's picking your spots to go to the net for an easy volley.

But...you won't succeed at the net if you cannot volley. So make an effort to get comfortable at the net, even though it might cost you some losses at first.
 
bamafan07 said:
I've been really focusing on my game lately, and I'm wondering if pushing is actually a viable strategy. I don't mean just tapping and lobbing it in but actually pushing. I hear a lot of hate around it but at my level (~3 UTR) it seems like it would be a good strategy. Most of the players I play (including myself) usually play pretty aggressive and try to end the point as fast as possible, but I wonder if I could be winning a lot more of my matches if I just hit the ball back. Not really the type of pusher people think of, but more of a very defensive style of play. What are y'all's thoughts on it? Should I continue playing aggressive? Or maybe try the pusher/defense play-style?
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i think mastering the neutral ball will take you further in the long run...
you could consider the idea of "neutralizing aggressive shots" as defensive... but the difference in mindset is that the goal of hitting a high quality neutral ball is to solicit a ball (short/slower/etc..) that you can be more offensive on
i think where the "pusher" mindset falls apart is when they play defensively on weak balls (eg. short ball in the center, they just push back deep, and run back to the baseline)... where they will stunt their growth/development preventing them getting to the utr8+ level (where they absolutely need to be able to take advantage of (attack) small margins (short/slow/etc... balls), consistently)

pushing will absolutely win you many matches at the utr1-6 level, then you'll be stuck wondering, how do i break into the utr7+ levels... that's why pushers are the gatekeepers of the ntrp4.0 level :p

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i defined "pusher" as someone with short bunty strokes... specifically a technique that will be difficult to build on later, to be able to hit harder and/or heavier...
someone who has proper technique (top or slice), but chooses to redirect incoming pace with depth and/or accuracy... is just "GOOD" (and better known as a counter puncher)
 
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I think the best strategy for getting good fast is to become an aggressive pusher.

Get really good at volleys and overheads, then extend your volley skills backward to the baseline.

Tennis is usually taught in reverse.
 
Change the word to consistency and it's the best strategy for any level. Or if there was one word to describe ...make the fewest errors. Essential Tennis had a podcast where they mentioned even up to the pro level the difference is like 5%-10% on evenly matched players , even if the score is more lopsided than 6-4 6-4, the difference in errors tells the tale. Then it gets more complicated with offense defense and forced unforced.

But, if you can hit the bleep out of the ball more consistently than your opponent you win. 3.5 and below that's usually always "pushing" the ball back in and over more than the opponent.
 
travlerajm said:
counter-puncher is a politically correct word that you can call the pusher who beat you without sounding like a sore loser.
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Counterpuncher is a different style altogether. A counterpuncher looks to absorb pace and use it against a hard hitter to generate their own winners. Counterpunchers really struggle against pushers because they struggle to generate their own pace and the pusher isn't giving them any to work with. A counterpuncher will dominate a power baseliner because they are looking for pace on the ball to use themselves to open up winners.

"Retriever" is the politically correct term for a pusher. A retriever is someone who is just getting the ball back, avoiding any risk of errors, and waiting for UFEs from the opponent no matter how many strokes it takes as a primary strategy. Retrievers not only exist but thrive at every rec level of tennis. A retriever at the 3.0-3.5 level is what people usually consider "pushers" because they have to hit soft no-pace balls in order to make sure they aren't missing, but the top level 4.5 and 5.0 level singles players are typically retrievers as well, but it's just that they're not hitting softballs because at that level, they can hit forcing topspin groundstrokes deep in the court with a high margin for error and be confident that they can hit 50 of them without missing if necessary no matter what the opponent is throwing at them.

In the pros, there are "pusherish" players like Andy Murray, but at that level, everyone can hit a hundred rally balls and never miss, so it becomes impossible to just wait out errors and not go for winners at all (every player has the skill to generate winners as well, so if you don't do that, you're wasting opportunities to win points).
 
J_R_B said:
Counterpuncher is a different style altogether. A counterpuncher looks to absorb pace and use it against a hard hitter to generate their own winners. Counterpunchers really struggle against pushers because they struggle to generate their own pace and the pusher isn't giving them any to work with. A counterpuncher will dominate a power baseliner because they are looking for pace on the ball to use themselves to open up winners.

"Retriever" is the politically correct term for a pusher. A retriever is someone who is just getting the ball back, avoiding any risk of errors, and waiting for UFEs from the opponent no matter how many strokes it takes as a primary strategy. Retrievers not only exist but thrive at every rec level of tennis. A retriever at the 3.0-3.5 level is what people usually consider "pushers" because they have to hit soft no-pace balls in order to make sure they aren't missing, but the top level 4.5 and 5.0 level singles players are typically retrievers as well, but it's just that they're not hitting softballs because at that level, they can hit forcing topspin groundstrokes deep in the court with a high margin for error and be confident that they can hit 50 of them without missing if necessary no matter what the opponent is throwing at them.

In the pros, there are "pusherish" players like Andy Murray, but at that level, everyone can hit a hundred rally balls and never miss, so it becomes impossible to just wait out errors and not go for winners at all (every player has the skill to generate winners as well, so if you don't do that, you're wasting opportunities to win points).
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Some people find “retriever” offensive. I called my mixed doubles partner a retriever, and she ghosted me.
 
bamafan07 said:
I've been really focusing on my game lately, and I'm wondering if pushing is actually a viable strategy. I don't mean just tapping and lobbing it in but actually pushing. I hear a lot of hate around it but at my level (~3 UTR) it seems like it would be a good strategy. Most of the players I play (including myself) usually play pretty aggressive and try to end the point as fast as possible, but I wonder if I could be winning a lot more of my matches if I just hit the ball back. Not really the type of pusher people think of, but more of a very defensive style of play. What are y'all's thoughts on it? Should I continue playing aggressive? Or maybe try the pusher/defense play-style?
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You can, if you are fit and also willing to wear out your knees and hips.
 
J_R_B said:
Counterpuncher is a different style altogether. A counterpuncher looks to absorb pace and use it against a hard hitter to generate their own winners. Counterpunchers really struggle against pushers because they struggle to generate their own pace and the pusher isn't giving them any to work with. A counterpuncher will dominate a power baseliner because they are looking for pace on the ball to use themselves to open up winners.

"Retriever" is the politically correct term for a pusher. A retriever is someone who is just getting the ball back, avoiding any risk of errors, and waiting for UFEs from the opponent no matter how many strokes it takes as a primary strategy. Retrievers not only exist but thrive at every rec level of tennis. A retriever at the 3.0-3.5 level is what people usually consider "pushers" because they have to hit soft no-pace balls in order to make sure they aren't missing, but the top level 4.5 and 5.0 level singles players are typically retrievers as well, but it's just that they're not hitting softballs because at that level, they can hit forcing topspin groundstrokes deep in the court with a high margin for error and be confident that they can hit 50 of them without missing if necessary no matter what the opponent is throwing at them.

In the pros, there are "pusherish" players like Andy Murray, but at that level, everyone can hit a hundred rally balls and never miss, so it becomes impossible to just wait out errors and not go for winners at all (every player has the skill to generate winners as well, so if you don't do that, you're wasting opportunities to win points).
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Good post.

Retrieving is a great strategy at lower levels where opponents are not able to consistently hit aggressive shots without making too many errors.

As you go up in level, opponents will start being able to successfully punish passive play. At which point retrieving by itself is not enough.
 
Bamafan, the fact that you’re still in high school changes the advice completely. Your game is just developing and you don’t know where it’s going to land unless you’re already a prodigy.

Most high schoolers are either big topspin baseline players or pushers. Pushing won’t work against really good high schoolers unless you have world class quickness and amazing endurance. You’re going to need to develop offensive weapons f you want to be a top level high school player. Also, when you get older, if you want to play above 4.0 level, you will need weapons.

If you develop aggressive strokes now, they will be far more consistent when you get older. You are at the age where it’s easier for your body to learn and adapt. IOW, this is the time to groove your strokes and develop your game instead of settling for a “what works now” strategy.
 
Chalkdust said:
Good post.

Retrieving is a great strategy at lower levels where opponents are not able to consistently hit aggressive shots without making too many errors.

As you go up in level, opponents will start being able to successfully punish passive play. At which point retrieving by itself is not enough.
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You can get to a very high level with retrieving. At 4.5 or 5.0, it doesn't look like what people consider "pushing" because 1) you can't hit fluffballs to guys at this level because they are too good at generating pace and hitting winners off easy ones and 2) the guys at this level have the ability to keep much more forcing shots in play forever, so there is no need to just hit fluffballs to avoid errors. You are right, though, that the higher level you get to, the more players you will find with an aggressive offensive game that generates more winners than errors. Up to 3.5 or so (on the men's side), pushing/retrieving will beat every other style if you're good at it. After that, more and more effective aggressive players seep into the ranks.
 
If you are playing an aggressive style and losing, it's probably because too many of your aggressive shots are missing. To me it's crazy to continue a losing strategy in competition because of the idea that it will eventually make you better. That's what practice is for, not matches that actually count for something. If you think hitting more conservative shots will get you more points in a match that you want to win, by all means go for it. That said, you probably don't need to completely flip the switch to becoming an ultra-conservative pusher right away. Adjust your aggression down until you find the right level that works.

It could be that your aggressive shots are going in and you're still losing because your opponent is comfortable handling them. In that case, it's also worth a shot to dial some shots back and see if you get better results. Your opponent might be using your pace and start struggling if they have to generate their own. You'll never learn what your opponent doesn't like if you don't mix it up.
 
J_R_B said:
You can get to a very high level with retrieving. At 4.5 or 5.0, it doesn't look like what people consider "pushing" because 1) you can't hit fluffballs to guys at this level because they are too good at generating pace and hitting winners off easy ones and 2) the guys at this level have the ability to keep much more forcing shots in play forever, so there is no need to just hit fluffballs to avoid errors. You are right, though, that the higher level you get to, the more players you will find with an aggressive offensive game that generates more winners than errors. Up to 3.5 or so (on the men's side), pushing/retrieving will beat every other style if you're good at it. After that, more and more effective aggressive players seep into the ranks.
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Yup, I agree that retrieving looks different at different levels.

To try to frame it in a way that is independent of level: Looking at match stats, a retriever will have a low count of errors and a very low count of winners. The retriever is looking to win points due to errors by the opponent while not going for aggressive shots him/her self.

That works until you start facing opponents that are not going to donate errors unless they are put under pressure, and then the retriever has no way to win points. To progress further, the retriever needs to find supplemental ways to win points, maybe by adding some counterpunching ability, or a net game, or something... at which point the retriever is no longer a pure retriever.
 
TennisOTM said:
If you think hitting more conservative shots will get you more points in a match that you want to win, by all means go for it. That said, you probably don't need to completely flip the switch to becoming an ultra-conservative pusher right away. Adjust your aggression down until you find the right level that works.
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Yea I think this is the key. Mentally I get stuck in a place where I see short balls and I want to just crush clean winners. This leads to way too many unforced errors because I'm trying to play extreme angles, or I'm trying to drastically increase the pace (missing long).

The reality is that if I play reasonable angles, and increase the pace a bit (without totally destroying the ball), usually that's enough to pressure the opponent into an error of their own. I almost always get too aggressive and then have to remind myself to back off.
 
Pushing is essentially a purely defensive attitude where you rely on opponent errors to win. How that works changes by level. At 3.0 you can basically just moonball softies and win. At 3.5 you need more directional control and medium pace to keep the opponent moving and further back. At 4.0 you need consistent depth and a variety of shots (slices, lobs) to make the opponent uncomfortable.
 
I think it’s fair to say that counter punching comes in 2 form - offensive and defensive.

Most “pushers” are defensive. They rely on their opponents to make mistakes to score points. These are the pushers we love to hate. Moonballers fall into this category.

Offensive counter puncher can turn defense into offense ie they can place the ball to open count im hopes to end the point. The ball struck might not be an aggressive shot, but doesn’t mean the intent isn’t aggressive in nature.

We all hate pushers because they defend well. Our ego gets in the way of playing more patiently for the right moment to strike. In essence you need to learn to be an offensive counter puncher to understand how to beat a pusher. Along the way you will realize you need more than a ground game to win points. If you’re willing to work overtime you will acquire the skills and evolve into an all court player.
 
Pushers who sit back and use pace and patience to win seem to sit in a better seat for winning now - far more than ever.
At most rec tennis levels here, the "new" game of hitting topspin harder and harder to break down an opponent only works at regional elite levels and up. At lesser levels, those hard topspin strokes give the "pusher" the pace and UEs that he/she thrives on... they simply just cover the baseline and wait for the UE...
Earlier, the more control frames promoted far fewer UEs, far more precision, far more variety and those precise short angles, flattened forehands, and precise drop shots and soft lobs would break up the easy plays of the retriever , make 'em put in the miles, and make them "do something" with the ball or else...
(the total lack of building points and effective variety at the rec level is just too bad - learning to play different shots can keep the game very interesting...)
 
Frankc said:
Pushers who sit back and use pace and patience to win seem to sit in a better seat for winning now - far more than ever.
At most rec tennis levels here, the "new" game of hitting topspin harder and harder to break down an opponent only works at regional elite levels and up. At lesser levels, those hard topspin strokes give the "pusher" the pace and UEs that he/she thrives on... they simply just cover the baseline and wait for the UE...
Earlier, the more control frames promoted far fewer UEs, far more precision, far more variety and those precise short angles, flattened forehands, and precise drop shots and soft lobs would break up the easy plays of the retriever , make 'em put in the miles, and make them "do something" with the ball or else...
(the total lack of building points and effective variety at the rec level is just too bad - learning to play different shots can keep the game very interesting...)
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Are you saying that the new game of using power has made pushing more effective at the lower levels? I'd agree with that.
 
I got paired with a pushing partner recently in a social, it was depressing to watch all the dinks and moonballs

On a few occasions I thought I was going to end up in A&E with his short balls and general lack of intent sitters which my opponents gleefully buried in my direction. It maybe a 'viable' strategy but condemns you to low level tennis.
 
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Honestly if you want to get better - pushing is terrible. You’ll never develop the quality of forehand or backhand. People push bc they want to win without making an error.

My thought process is : pushing will get you wins but not consistently. You’re banking on that player making errors all the time. Usually at the 4.5 level : it’s not going to happen all the time. Sometimes yes - I’ll admit losing to the pusher has happened. When does it happen? When I’m mentally and physically off my game and not in the mood to play a pusher that day if I don’t know I’m playing one. But I normally don’t lose to them bc the game plan is simple: stay patient , apply heavy top spin deep in the court or simply throw a few lobs back at them to throw them off. I started doing this and they were backing up to the fence and feeding me terrible lob return ar the service line lol
 
To be fair, pushing is sometimes the only legitimate strategy to achieve a win. If you play a basher who's a little better than you, winning is likely going to come down to holding him at bay until he gets impatient and makes a mistake. I've pushed/junkballed my way to winning ugly matches against better players. My mentality in those situations is to just try to stay away from their weapon and make them hit one more ball.

But I've also been the aggressor counter puncher against pushers to beat them. I think it's just generally important to have a tool kit of shots and a sense of your opponents tactics to be able to dial in the right strategy for the day.
 
I tried pushing for a match or two and failed miserably. But once I started playing more aggressive, I immediately felt a difference. I've already gotten a lot better since I posted the original thread, thanks to playing aggressively, so thanks for that! :D
 
nyta2 said:
i think mastering the neutral ball will take you further in the long run...
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Love this personally and agree. This is something I have taken to practice matches lately and have found more success than losses not pulling the trigger too early and definitely finding more comfort staying in points (which honestly wins more points that offensive shots). But it is a process of that, taking wins and losses while learning that focus/strategy, and for me just finding how to adjust differentiation between neutral and an attacking balls with different opponents. So being comfortable with short term losses for long term gains has to be the mindset.
 
Dartagnan64 said:
To be fair, pushing is sometimes the only legitimate strategy to achieve a win. If you play a basher who's a little better than you, winning is likely going to come down to holding him at bay until he gets impatient and makes a mistake. I've pushed/junkballed my way to winning ugly matches against better players. My mentality in those situations is to just try to stay away from their weapon and make them hit one more ball.

But I've also been the aggressor counter puncher against pushers to beat them. I think it's just generally important to have a tool kit of shots and a sense of your opponents tactics to be able to dial in the right strategy for the day.
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Depends how consistent the ball basher from the baseline is.
A pusher found out very easily I can rip those weak balls and lob those weak lobs to set myself up for a smash pretty easily.

Sometimes taking more time to play a pusher to improve off pace balls will benefit in the future.

Those who use the slice forehand and backhand pushing approach: just come to the net. Easy winners
 
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