Put prime Djokovic in Federer's shoes in 2004-08

[Mustard]

Roddick? Really?

Roddick has a winning head-to-head record against Djokovic, 5-4. Their most high profile matches are split, i.e. the bad tempered 2008 US Open quarter final match (Djokovic won 6-2, 6-3, 3-6, 7-6), and Djokovic melting in the heat in their 2009 Australian Open quarter final (Roddick won 6-7, 6-4, 6-2, 2-1 ret.).

Djokovic in his earlier years had a bit of a matchup problem against Tsonga for a time. Djokovic won their first and biggest match, i.e. the 2008 Australian Open final, but Tsonga went on to have head-to-head leads of 4-1 and 5-2 over Djokovic. Djokovic won 15 of their last 16 matches, to end it at 17-6 to Djokovic. I suppose this was Djokovic's equivalent of Nadal's rivalry with Berdych.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Feck h2h

H2H can't hide the fact that rod won most times while nole was not even at his best.

 

[Incognito]

2019 is not prime Djoker

How come, when Fed was prime in 2019 according to you guys.

 

[Mustard]

Feck h2h

H2H can't hide the fact that rod won most times while nole was not even at his best.

Djokovic was the reigning Australian Open champion at the time of their 2009 Australian quarter final, and had recently beaten Roddick at the 2008 US Open. Roddick's 2008 Dubai tournament win was one of his most impressive, in beating Nadal and Djokovic, and then Lopez in the final.

Roddick also beat Djokovic at 2009 Indian Wells and 2009 Montreal, which was still a decent Djokovic though Djokovic had lost his earlier momentum. Djokovic wasn't playing well at the time of 2010 Cincinnati, when Roddick beat him.

Djokovic won his last 2 matches against Roddick, which took place at the 2010 YEC and the 2012 London Olympics.

 

[Incognito]

Feck h2h

H2H can't hide the fact that rod won most times while nole was not even at his best.

He was prime though, right. Doesn’t djokovic have 17 years of prime tennis?

 

[Mustard]

He was prime though, right. Doesn’t djokovic have 17 years of prime tennis?

I'm surprised at how easily so many Djokovic fans dismiss his 2007-2008 period, and 2009 clay season. It would be like Nadal fans ignoring his 2005-2007.

 

[Neptune]

Feck h2h

H2H can't hide the fact that rod won most times while nole was not even at his best.

Relax, just keep reminding them that peak Rafa was a helpless pigeon against the bald man Davydenko on hard courts.

 

[Mustard]

Relax, just keep reminding them that peak Rafa was a helpless pigeon against the bald man Davydenko on hard courts.

Blake was a worse matchup for Nadal on hardcourt than Davydenko was.

Davydenko turned the head-to-head against Nadal from 2-4 to 5-4 in late 2009-early 2010, when Nadal was losing to every top 8 player that he faced, and Nadal had championship points in their 2010 Doha final.

 

[nolefam_2024]

Relax, just keep reminding them that peak Rafa was a helpless pigeon against the bald man Davydenko on hard courts.

Lol yes

Tit for tat

Make life so unbearable for trolls

 

[Incognito]

There is a chance he squeeks in a CYGS but overall he is #1 for all those years.

When exactly is he gonna do that?

 

[helterskelter]

I’m curious who posters think would equal or better peak Safin who came from players at the top of the game from 2011 until now.

Safin has the highest Peak Level of any player, ever. Federer was more consistent and has the highest Average Prime Level and the second-highest Peak Level, but when push came to shove, Safin narrowly beat him in the BMOAT and Goat decider.

 

[Unseeded Player]

How come, when Fed was prime in 2019 according to you guys.

Who said that? I didn't.

 

[Unseeded Player]

Competition back then made a prime Novak sighting rarer than Bigfoot.

It's not the competition but his health issues.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

It's not the competition but his health issues.

Don't blame it on the sunshine,
Don't blame it on the moonlight,
Don't blame it on the good times,
Blame it on the bread.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Feck h2h

H2H can't hide the fact that rod won most times while nole was not even at his best.

LOLCONTEXT

 

[JoJoHackshow]

I'm glad most people are realizing how weak the CIE really is

 

[RS]

Don't blame it on the sunshine,
Don't blame it on the moonlight,
Don't blame it on the good times,
Blame it on the bread.

Boogie

 

[tennis_pro]

Did you finish high school?

If a player plays 100 matches and 10 of those are against the top 5, the T5 weight% is 10%, indicating that 10% of his matches are against the top 5.
If 30 of those are against the top 5, the T5 weight% is 30%, meaning 30% of his matches are against top 5 opponents.

Does that make sense now?

And? Where's your reply smartass? Or it takes you a week to realize you can interpret the same numbers differently? Guess they didn't teach you that at your school.

 

[hoodjem]

If Roddick and Djokovic are born in the same year (1982) with Federer 5 years younger (born in 1987) then Djokovic wins less wimbledons that Roddick.

2003 Roddick beats 2008 Djokovic to win his 1st Wimbledon
2004 Roddick beats 2009 Djokovic to win his 2nd Wimbledon
2005 Roddick beats 2010 Djokovic and probably beats 2005 Hewitt too for his 3rd Wimbledon, tossup but lets give Roddick his 3rd wimbeldon because he would have the confidence of being a 2 time defending champ

* at this point Djokovic is a proper pigeon of Roddick on Grass *

2011 Djokovic finally breaks free and wins his 1st wimbledon beating 2006 Nadal in 2006
2012 Djokovic beats 2007 Nadal again in 2007, I am giving Djokovic the benefit of doubt here.
2013 Djokovic will however lose to 2008 Nadal who will be at his peak, he will win here...
2014 Djokovic vs 2009 Roddick vs 2003 Federer .... what a fight... I think 2003 Federer wins and thus the Federer era begins in 2009
2015 Djokovic vs 2004 Federer again results in Federer winning in 2010

2005 onwards Federer cannot be touched, he wins almost everything for the next 10 years, maybe till next year (2025) Federer keeps on winning.

So the result would be

Federer - 11 wimbledons
Roddick - 3 Wimbledons
Djokovic - 2 Wimbledons
Nadal - 1 Wimbledon
Hewitt - 1 Wimbledon
Murray - 0

In the multiverse, with time travel also.

 

[SonnyT]

I know my opinion is not popular here! But if Federer won most of his slams sans souci in this period, then prime Djokovic would've even less difficulty!

 

[inflation_era]

It's not the competition but his health issues.

So in the last 5 years, broken ribs and knees surgeries can't stop him. But pre-2010, a stuffed nose derails. LOL.

 

[Neptune]

And? Where's your reply smartass? Or it takes you a week to realize you can interpret the same numbers differently? Guess they didn't teach you that at your school.

Feel free to cope with the numbers however you like, okay?

 

[TMF]

Who said that? I didn't.

Djoker fans

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Boogie

B R E A D

 

[RS]

B R E A D

Thriller and Smooth Criminal still better

 

[GabeT]

So in the last 5 years, broken ribs and knees surgeries can't stop him. But pre-2010, a stuffed nose derails. LOL.

You just can’t stay away

 

[RS]

ROFLMAO.

Does anyone have any faith that 2012 Djokovic beats 2012 Murray in a Wimbledon final? 07 Ned > 12 Fed > 12 Murray, two levels above. Even if we handwave a level due to "matchup" 07 Ned is still at least a level above 12 Djokovic. You need a lot more than benefit of doubt to give Djokovic that one, as it's not a 50/50 match.

I thought Murray just kept the ball in play?

 

[metsman]

I thought Murray just kept the ball in play?

Well whatever it was, it was sufficient against 12-14 Djokovic.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

I thought Murray just kept the ball in play?

I guess Djo does have a weakness after all.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

Thriller and Smooth Criminal still better

Great songs, but not quite PYT.

 

[zvelf]

Djokovic had too many ups and downs during 2012 - 14 period. Otoh Federer only lost to a zoning player or Nadal during 2004-07. So I can see Djokovic dropping many slams no matter of opposition (like W/USO 13 - 14, Uso 12). He takes 6-8 slams vs Fed's 11 in four years.

This analogy is improper because you cherry pick Djokovic's relatively 3 poorest years out of 5 being considered but you don't do the same for Federer and then act as if it's a fair comparison. The OP is looking at 2004-2008. If you cherry pick Djokovic's 3 poorest straight prime years, 2012-2014, you have to do the same with Federer, 2006-2008. So let's look at that:

Federer's overall win percentage in 2006-2008 is 88.4%.
Djokovic's overall win percentage in 2012-2014 is 88.1%.

That's not a significant difference, but Djokovic faced much tougher competition in those years. 2006-2008 Federer played someone in the top ten 61 times. 2012-2014 Djokovic played someone in the top ten 88 times. That's 27 more top ten matches.

Federer's win percentage vs. top ten in 2006-2008 is 70.5%.
Djokovic's win percentage vs. top ten in 2012-2014 is a notably better 76.1%.

Now let's see who they lost to outside of the top 10.

2006-2008 Federer lost to:

11 Andy Murray
21 David Nalbandian
21 Andy Murray
22 Ivo Karlovic
22 Gilles Simon
25 David Nalbandian
27 Radek Stepanek
53 Filippo Volandri
55 Guillermo Canas
60 Guillermo Canas
98 Mardy Fish

2011-2012 Djokovic lost to:

11 Kei Nishikori
11 John Isner
15 Jo Wilfried Tsonga
18 Tommy Haas
20 Tommy Robredo
22 John Isner
23 Sam Querrey
28 Grigor Dimitrov

So 2006-2008 Federer lost to more players outside the top 10 than 2012-2014 Djokovic and lost to a lower caliber of player. 2012-2014 Djokovic never lost to any player outside of the top 30 in all 3 years. Federer lost to Volandri, Canas twice, and Mardy Fish, all outside the top 50 at the time.

So in a proper analysis, 2012-2014 Djokovic is actually more consistent than 2006-2008 Federer.

Now let's do the analysis for all 5 years. 2004-2008 Federer had an overall win percentage of 90.6%. 2011-2015 Djokovic had an overall win percentage of 89.8%, less than a 1% difference. But against the top ten, Federer went 76-20 or 79.2%. Against the top ten, Djokovic went 119-30 or 79.9%. But ridiculously, Djokovic played the top ten 149 times to Federer's 96, so 53 more times! This is when Djokovic had much tougher competition than Federer too as Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro, Berdych, Tsonga, and Ferrer were all prime or peaking. Add on Nadal and Federer himself, and 2011-2015's level of difficulty is much greater than 2004-2008's.

 

[SonnyT]

Roddick has a winning head-to-head record against Djokovic, 5-4. Their most high profile matches are split, i.e. the bad tempered 2008 US Open quarter final match (Djokovic won 6-2, 6-3, 3-6, 7-6), and Djokovic melting in the heat in their 2009 Australian Open quarter final (Roddick won 6-7, 6-4, 6-2, 2-1 ret.).

Djokovic in his earlier years had a bit of a matchup problem against Tsonga for a time. Djokovic won their first and biggest match, i.e. the 2008 Australian Open final, but Tsonga went on to have head-to-head leads of 4-1 and 5-2 over Djokovic. Djokovic won 15 of their last 16 matches, to end it at 17-6 to Djokovic. I suppose this was Djokovic's equivalent of Nadal's rivalry with Berdych.

It's crazy to compare their 2H2: Roddick's prime while Djokovic was a teenager, while Djokovic's prime when Roddick was already retired. Roddick even made a joke about it, saying he knew when to pack it up! Roddick in no shape or form was comparable to Djokovic!

I thought every knowledgeable tennis fan knew this! Every Fedfan still hanged on to it!

 

[metsman]

This analogy is improper because you cherry pick Djokovic's relatively 3 poorest years out of 5 being considered but you don't do the same for Federer and then act as if it's a fair comparison. The OP is looking at 2004-2008. If you cherry pick Djokovic's 3 poorest straight prime years, 2012-2014, you have to do the same with Federer, 2006-2008. So let's look at that:

Federer's overall win percentage in 2006-2008 is 88.4%.
Djokovic's overall win percentage in 2012-2014 is 88.1%.

That's not a significant difference, but Djokovic faced much tougher competition in those years. 2006-2008 Federer played someone in the top ten 61 times. 2012-2014 Djokovic played someone in the top ten 88 times. That's 27 more top ten matches.

Federer's win percentage vs. top ten in 2006-2008 is 70.5%.
Djokovic's win percentage vs. top ten in 2012-2014 is a notably better 76.1%.

Now let's see who they lost to outside of the top 10.

2006-2008 Federer lost to:

11 Andy Murray
21 David Nalbandian
21 Andy Murray
22 Ivo Karlovic
22 Gilles Simon
25 David Nalbandian
27 Radek Stepanek
53 Filippo Volandri
55 Guillermo Canas
60 Guillermo Canas
98 Mardy Fish

2011-2012 Djokovic lost to:

11 Kei Nishikori
11 John Isner
15 Jo Wilfried Tsonga
18 Tommy Haas
20 Tommy Robredo
22 John Isner
23 Sam Querrey
28 Grigor Dimitrov

So 2006-2008 Federer lost to more players outside the top 10 than 2012-2014 Djokovic and lost to a lower caliber of player. 2012-2014 Djokovic never lost to any player outside of the top 30 in all 3 years. Federer lost to Volandri, Canas twice, and Mardy Fish, all outside the top 50 at the time.

So in a proper analysis, 2012-2014 Djokovic is actually more consistent than 2006-2008 Federer.

Now let's do the analysis for all 5 years. 2004-2008 Federer had an overall win percentage of 90.6%. 2011-2015 Djokovic had an overall win percentage of 89.8%, less than a 1% difference. But against the top ten, Federer went 76-20 or 79.2%. Against the top ten, Djokovic went 119-30 or 79.9%. But ridiculously, Djokovic played the top ten 149 times to Federer's 96, so 53 more times! This is when Djokovic had much tougher competition than Federer too as Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro, Berdych, Tsonga, and Ferrer were all prime or peaking. Add on Nadal and Federer himself, and 2011-2015's level of difficulty is much greater than 2004-2008's.

8 slams vs 3 and you managed to type the rest of this trash with a straight face? Cmon son.

 

[Neptune]

8 slams vs 3 and you managed to type the rest of this trash with a straight face? Cmon son.

zvelf only needed to type 24>20, and 428>310.

 

[zvelf]

8 slams vs 3 and you managed to type the rest of this trash with a straight face? Cmon son.

The truth and the irrefutable numbers hurt, don't they?

 

[metsman]

zvelf only needed to type 24>20, and 428>310.

Yeah and still didn't do that because even he knows the argument is about prime level.

 

[metsman]

The truth and the irrefutable numbers hurt, don't they?

Truth and irrefutable numbers (i.e. 8 and 3) is Federer being the best and most consistent winner in the history of the sport in his prime whereas Djokovic was losing to all kinds of Tom Dick and Harrys, giving out handouts that would make even the Salvation Army blush. Oh and he wasn't losing to this "strong competition" you had to crunch a bunch of useless numbers put up in mostly useless matches to get at. Provide an argument for why Federer won nearly 3 times as much in the 3 year periods in question, is it just down to competition, and prime/peaking Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga as you so astutely pointed out.

 

[SonnyT]

8 slams vs 3 and you managed to type the rest of this trash with a straight face? Cmon son.

Why not? One guy went on to win 24, and the other 20!

 

[NatF]

Truth and irrefutable numbers (i.e. 8 and 3) is Federer being the best and most consistent winner in the history of the sport in his prime whereas Djokovic was losing to all kinds of Tom Dick and Harrys, giving out handouts that would make even the Salvation Army blush. Oh and he wasn't losing to this "strong competition" you had to crunch a bunch of useless numbers put up in mostly useless matches to get at. Provide an argument for why Federer won nearly 3 times as much in the 3 year periods in question, is it just down to competition, and prime/peaking Ferrer, Berdych, Tsonga as you so astutely pointed out.

Bit of a double standard to argue that Djokovic in 2012-2014 was better than 2006-2008 Fed, when the same posters will probably completely reject the idea that Federer could be greater than Djokovic because 24 > 20. The problem with that analysis as well is that it's mostly greater efficacy/attendence in masters that pads those numbers.

In slams Federer went:

2006: 7-1
2007: 9-1
2008: 2-3

Total: 18-5 (78%)

Djokovic was:

2012: 7-3
2013: 6-3
2014: 3-2

Total: 16-8 (67%)

So he had 1 more meeting with the top 10 in slams, but a clearly worse percentage. I don't see 2006-2008 Fed losing to the string of players who beat Djokovic in those years outside of Nadal on clay, much less doing so without making it to a fifth set in all but 1 of 5 losses at Wimbledon and the USO. This where the overreliance on stats without further introspection or critical thinking rears it's ugly head again and again. It should go without saying that 2006 and 2007 Federer were better than 2012 and 2013 Djokovic, but someone will look at those stats and try to argue that it was just competition that is to blame for that 6-2 gap in slams. Nevermind that Djokovic lost to a much weaker Fed at Wimbledon in 2012, got bounced by Murray in straights a year later and couldn't win the USO in either year against worse players at that slam than Federer...

The only years of those 6 where Djokovic was arguably better is 2014 vs 2008, because Federer kinda sucked in the masters and the YEC. But 2008 Fed still almost certainly wins 2 slams to Djokovic's one if you swapped him into 2014 lol. If we're being fair, you could say 2006 Fed doesn't win the AO in 2012 and on the whole that Djokovic's competition at that slam was definitely better - but I think that's probably the only slam Fed loses that Djokovic won.

 

[Neptune]

pads those numbers

Only someone pumped by the establishment can pad numbers.

 

[mike danny]

Agreed, I like Roddick but the mental edge or H2H or whatever argument is used is blown out of proportion by detractors. Not even in the same league

To be fair, Murray, Stan and Nishikori weren’t in the same league either and how did those turn out?

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Slightly fewer slams but the same amount of weeks at #1.

 

[Hood_Man]

I thought Murray just kept the ball in play?

The problem with Murray is he tries to walk it in.

 

[Fed_Nole]

Is it a serious discussion? Nole is better known for his consistency than his peak. I don't see any one can challenge him in ranking during 2014-2018. Safin, are you crazy? Roddick, a non-factor in clay. OTOH, I don't see Nole would have the same dominance over the field. Specifically on major, I lean to Roddick on 09 Wimbledon and 07 Wimbledon would be a toss up, even though he doesn't have the same matchup issue against Rafa. For any majors lost by Fed, I don't see any chance that Nole could have flipped the coin.

 

[fedfan24]

This analogy is improper because you cherry pick Djokovic's relatively 3 poorest years out of 5 being considered but you don't do the same for Federer and then act as if it's a fair comparison. The OP is looking at 2004-2008. If you cherry pick Djokovic's 3 poorest straight prime years, 2012-2014, you have to do the same with Federer, 2006-2008. So let's look at that:

Federer's overall win percentage in 2006-2008 is 88.4%.
Djokovic's overall win percentage in 2012-2014 is 88.1%.

That's not a significant difference, but Djokovic faced much tougher competition in those years. 2006-2008 Federer played someone in the top ten 61 times. 2012-2014 Djokovic played someone in the top ten 88 times. That's 27 more top ten matches.

Federer's win percentage vs. top ten in 2006-2008 is 70.5%.
Djokovic's win percentage vs. top ten in 2012-2014 is a notably better 76.1%.

Now let's see who they lost to outside of the top 10.

2006-2008 Federer lost to:

11 Andy Murray
21 David Nalbandian
21 Andy Murray
22 Ivo Karlovic
22 Gilles Simon
25 David Nalbandian
27 Radek Stepanek
53 Filippo Volandri
55 Guillermo Canas
60 Guillermo Canas
98 Mardy Fish

2011-2012 Djokovic lost to:

11 Kei Nishikori
11 John Isner
15 Jo Wilfried Tsonga
18 Tommy Haas
20 Tommy Robredo
22 John Isner
23 Sam Querrey
28 Grigor Dimitrov

So 2006-2008 Federer lost to more players outside the top 10 than 2012-2014 Djokovic and lost to a lower caliber of player. 2012-2014 Djokovic never lost to any player outside of the top 30 in all 3 years. Federer lost to Volandri, Canas twice, and Mardy Fish, all outside the top 50 at the time.

So in a proper analysis, 2012-2014 Djokovic is actually more consistent than 2006-2008 Federer.

Now let's do the analysis for all 5 years. 2004-2008 Federer had an overall win percentage of 90.6%. 2011-2015 Djokovic had an overall win percentage of 89.8%, less than a 1% difference. But against the top ten, Federer went 76-20 or 79.2%. Against the top ten, Djokovic went 119-30 or 79.9%. But ridiculously, Djokovic played the top ten 149 times to Federer's 96, so 53 more times! This is when Djokovic had much tougher competition than Federer too as Murray, Wawrinka, Del Potro, Berdych, Tsonga, and Ferrer were all prime or peaking. Add on Nadal and Federer himself, and 2011-2015's level of difficulty is much greater than 2004-2008's.

Competition evened out by 2015. 2011-2013 was strong but so was 2007-2009. You can argue Federer had 2004 but he didn’t peak on clay until 2005, by which time Nadal was there.

 

[SonnyT]

Bit of a double standard to argue that Djokovic in 2012-2014 was better than 2006-2008 Fed, when the same posters will probably completely reject the idea that Federer could be greater than Djokovic because 24 > 20. The problem with that analysis as well is that it's mostly greater efficacy/attendence in masters that pads those numbers.

In slams Federer went:

2006: 7-1
2007: 9-1
2008: 2-3

Total: 18-5 (78%)

Djokovic was:

2012: 7-3
2013: 6-3
2014: 3-2

Total: 16-8 (67%)

So he had 1 more meeting with the top 10 in slams, but a clearly worse percentage. I don't see 2006-2008 Fed losing to the string of players who beat Djokovic in those years outside of Nadal on clay, much less doing so without making it to a fifth set in all but 1 of 5 losses at Wimbledon and the USO. This where the overreliance on stats without further introspection or critical thinking rears it's ugly head again and again. It should go without saying that 2006 and 2007 Federer were better than 2012 and 2013 Djokovic, but someone will look at those stats and try to argue that it was just competition that is to blame for that 6-2 gap in slams. Nevermind that Djokovic lost to a much weaker Fed at Wimbledon in 2012, got bounced by Murray in straights a year later and couldn't win the USO in either year against worse players at that slam than Federer...

The only years of those 6 where Djokovic was arguably better is 2014 vs 2008, because Federer kinda sucked in the masters and the YEC. But 2008 Fed still almost certainly wins 2 slams to Djokovic's one if you swapped him into 2014 lol. If we're being fair, you could say 2006 Fed doesn't win the AO in 2012 and on the whole that Djokovic's competition at that slam was definitely better - but I think that's probably the only slam Fed loses that Djokovic won.

First of all, there were no great players in '06-08 besides Federer and Nadal on clay. Second of all, '12-14 were not great years for Djokovic; '11 and '15 were!

 

[TheFifthSet]

First of all, there were no great players in '06-08 besides Federer and Nadal on clay. Second of all, '12-14 were not great years for Djokovic; '11 and '15 were!

2007 and 2008 Nadal was equal to or better than anyone from 2012-2014.

 

[TearTheRoofOff]

First of all, there were no great players in '06-08 besides Federer and Nadal on clay. Second of all, '12-14 were not great years for Djokovic; '11 and '15 were!

So the reason they weren't great years for Djokovic is because they weren't great years for Djokovic.

I'm going to have to lie down from this information overload.

 

[zakopinjo]

Prime Djokovic in Federer shoes 2004-2008

2004
AO Djokovic
RG Djokovic
WB Djokovic
USO Djokovic

2005
AO Djokovic
RG Djokovic
WB Djokovic
USO Djokovic

2006
AO Djokovic
RG Nadal
WB Djokovic
USO Djokovic

2007
AO Djokovic
RG Djokovic
WB Djokovic
USO Djokovic

2008
AO Djokovic
RG Nadal
WB Djokovic
USO Djokovic

 

[hoodjem]

Roddick has a winning head-to-head record against Djokovic, 5-4. Their most high profile matches are split, i.e. the bad tempered 2008 US Open quarter final match (Djokovic won 6-2, 6-3, 3-6, 7-6), and Djokovic melting in the heat in their 2009 Australian Open quarter final (Roddick won 6-7, 6-4, 6-2, 2-1 ret.).

Djokovic in his earlier years had a bit of a matchup problem against Tsonga for a time. Djokovic won their first and biggest match, i.e. the 2008 Australian Open final, but Tsonga went on to have head-to-head leads of 4-1 and 5-2 over Djokovic. Djokovic won 15 of their last 16 matches, to end it at 17-6 to Djokovic. I suppose this was Djokovic's equivalent of Nadal's rivalry with Berdych.

All true.
If only Tsonga had won that AO final in 2008. The world would be very different.