PV Audio's Playtest Thread

levy1

Hall of Fame
Alrighty, update time!

Played for two days now with all of the setups. The most that I learned is this: I cannot play with a 3/8 grip. It's just not meant to be. I know that the pros use smaller grip sizes these days, but my hand is just meant to play with a 1/2. With that said, I did play test all of the string combinations and here's what I've got:

Hexablade/WhisperTouch: Very lively. In fact, too lively for the relative lack of feel. I had heard that Hexablade was very soft, but I did not find that at all. I also noticed that it wasn't destroying the gut as much as I was expecting. I think this is a function of the string's edges biting into the soft gut and making it notch, thus not allowing the string to create spin the natural way: snap back. Overall: 8.5/10

Hexablade/MCS: Honestly, this played exactly the same as the gut except with far less power. MCS seems to be (I don't want to speak fully without having played a full bed) a low powered natural gut clone because the feel was exactly the same when coming off of the stringbed. Something in between the power of the gut and MCS might make the Hexablade a good main, so perhaps I'll try Hexablade/Power Synthetic. Overall: 8.5/10

WC Scorpion / MCS: Along the same line as the review above, this setup feels nearly identical to the natural gut version, albeit with less power. Unfortunately for it, it just doesn't give enough pop when compared to the gut. So I really can't rate it as highly as the natural gut variant hybrid. Overall: 9/10

WC Scorpion / WhisperTouch: This is interesting because I played this same setup on a 3/8 grip and a 1/2 grip. On the 3/8 grip, the racquet tended to spin around in my hand which honestly was to be expected since I'm not used to playing with the smaller grip. Even then, it was head and shoulders above the hexablade setup. I think it's going to take me some time to find a setup that I like better than this even though the gut isn't going to last much longer. I ended up playing most of today with the 1/2 grip after having used the 3/8 grip all of yesterday, and it's glorious. Serves, groundstrokes, and volleys most of all are just fantastic. Overall, I'll increase its rating for its consistency: 9.5/10

I want to try your prefered setup. If I am stringing performaxx now, full bed 17L at 56lbs what do you recommend I string the WT-WC scorpion at? I do not generate a lot of power if it matters.
 

pvaudio

Legend
I want to try your prefered setup. If I am stringing performaxx now, full bed 17L at 56lbs what do you recommend I string the WT-WC scorpion at? I do not generate a lot of power if it matters.
Drop down to 49/46, gut/Scorpion. I find that in the lower tensions, WT gets too lively.
 

pvaudio

Legend
Played again with the gut/thunderstrings. Still not entirely sure as I can tell that the setup is breaking in. It is definitely a very unique feeling stringbed. I would definitely agree that it would be ideal for a pusher. There is just nothing there though. It's kind of like catching the ball with your racquet and then tossing it back over the net. It's almost as though you can feel the ball sinking into the strings deeper or shallower depending on the pace of the incoming ball, but then coming off your stick at the same medium pace regardless. Unique feeling, but not for someone who likes to make shots. Definitely not for someone who uses their serve to set up points. Absolutely not for the offensive oriented player.
 

pvaudio

Legend
What happened to the "poly like spin" you were expecting?
It's not there. The strings are here to return the ball to the opposing court, not put action on it. Swinging ferociously doesn't make the ball drop in due to spin like with the CoFocus or Scorpion crosses. It drops in simply because it wasn't traveling fast enough.
 

mixedmedia

Professional
Thanks for the review. It was very helpful. I'll still probably test it out too, though I'm a little wary... Will you be trying Classic Touch/Scorpion next? :-D
 

Up&comer

Hall of Fame
I got a 4.5 pusher on the docket tonight. Time to warm up the overhead and volleys...

Overheads are the only shot I can think of that are almost entirely dependent confidence. You can hit forehands and backhands and get back into a rhythm. Not overheads. You just have one or you don't.
 

mikeler

Moderator
Overheads are the only shot I can think of that are almost entirely dependent confidence. You can hit forehands and backhands and get back into a rhythm. Not overheads. You just have one or you don't.


For sure. You butcher your first 2 or 3 and it usually goes downhill from there.
 

Up&comer

Hall of Fame
For sure. You butcher your first 2 or 3 and it usually goes downhill from there.

Yep. It's like a golf swing. You know exactly what you have to do- keep your head still, watch to contact, and keep your body turned so your shoulder is facing the net. But it's so darn hard to do unless you drill for endless hours (Which I have :)).
 

mixedmedia

Professional
4lbs = the difference between love and hate :)

So you think he should have gone up/down 4 pounds on the setup? Right now I'm stringing WT/Scorp at 54/50 (probably will try 53/49). What would that mean for me if I decide to try Strom Metal too

Or were you referring to a different previously mentioned setup?
 
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MambaT

Rookie
I just think that with what he described, 42/38 might have been too low. Full poly in the low 40s is ideal. With gut in the mains, I would bump that up a little.

You have a full set. Try it where you normally string your other setup and if that seems tight, try it down 3-4 lbs.

I string full O-Power at 44, but when I play it in crosses with gut mains I string it at 54/50. 52/48 is too soft. 54/50 is just right. But full bed O-Power that high I hate.
 

levy1

Hall of Fame
Before I delve into the categories, a little background on this natty since many of you may not be familiar with it. This is the bumf from the e.Bay seller's page, so I didn't write this:



This is the description for the Whisper Touch string. I also have their string in 1.25 gauge, but have not used it.

The natural guts that I carry for stringing are the following:
Babolat Tonic 15L
Babolat VS Team 17g
Global Gut 17g
Klip Legend 17g
Pacific Prime 17g

I have used VS, Klip and Global in the mains, and those three plus tonic in the crosses (all as hybrids). In the mains, VS is the best by a long shot. In the crosses, VS is the best simply because it does not fray as badly, but the feel is better than Global and Tonic which are tied.

Since I cannot link to the Bay page, I'll describe the string's appearance. They say that they use a polyurethane coating like on furniture which gives it a glossy appearance and helps with stringing. Now, as is evident from my username, I have a strong basis in audio and thus in loudspeaker building and have used polyurethane to finish speaker cabinets many a time. Therefore, I know its properties: dries hard, dries clear and yet is flammable. The string that you receive is so clear, and I mean so transparent, that I did not believe for one second that it was natural gut. It looked like a natural colored version of Pro Supex syn gut original: it was that transparent. So, I figured that if they're telling the truth, that I could literally light the string on fire, which should make the polyurethane coating go up in flames quickly and reveal the gut below which should expand immediately. So.....that's what I did! I cut a 1" section off of the string, took a Bic to it, and immediately the entire thing burst into flames and quadrupled in size. There was a definite smell of polyurethane/lacquer and of burning flesh: this stuff truly is natural gut despite the crystal clear appearance.

Onto the actual playtest:

Stringing: Scorpion, like all WC strings, is a breeze to string. No coil memory, easy to tie off, easy on the fingers. Since it was just in the mains, no problems whatsoever. Now comes the interesting part: the crosses. The gut, when woven, is about as hard to weave as a low coil memory poly. Therefore, I'd put its ease of stringing in between a stiff multi and a soft poly, but definitely easier to weave than any of the other Babolat or Klip guts let alone the rope, I mean, Global gut. What's interesting is that the string looks crystal clear while weaving, but the moment you pull tension on it, it literally transforms before your eyes into a cloudy string where you can see the individual sinews and takes on an appearance identical to VS. You really need to see this to understand it: it looks crystal clear, to the point that I stepped on it multiple times because i saw right through it while it was on the carpet while I was doing the mains, but when tensioned, the fibrous nature is immediately apparent. Tension: 56.5 / 58.5

Playability: This is, without question, the best playing string setup that I have ever used in my entire life. Nothing else even compares. Honestly, not even VS crosses compare. I am not putting it to either string, but rather the combination of a crispy yet soft poly main and a natural gut cross. It just so happens that both strings happen to be the best of their respective breeds. The power is EFFORTLESS. Wrist flick shots are dime a dozen. You can modulate the amount of power simply by how much force you put behind each shot, OR, you can accelerate your racquet more quickly for more spin. Oh, the spin. This setup generates spin levels on par with some of the top textured strings. Why that is, I don't know, but the harder you hit (assuming you have a topspin generating stroke), the more the ball dives into the court at the last second. It only goes long when you flatten it out for no reason. Feel at the net is incredible, but then again, just about all natty setups are great at the net. I took off the rubber band and felt no increase in feel, but that'd be pretty difficult since the touch possible with this setup is pretty much untouchable, no pun intended.

Durability: All good things must come to an end: PerforMAXX does not lie or hide anything back in their descriptions. The WhisperTouch is definitely meant for those with a moderate swing speed with a flatter trajectory on most balls. Scorpion is not textured, and yet, after an hour and fifteen minutes of serving drills, the crosses are frayed more than all of the previously mentioned setups combined. I expect that in a match, the crosses are going after about a set if you're lucky. I think that the 1.30 or 1.25 is more appropriate for a modern topspin stroke...and they say as such in their advertising. I wanted the ultimate in playability so I chose the thinnest gauge and paid the price. So, expect to see me using the 1.25 as my next playtest cross string.

Overall: 9.25/10

scorp1f.jpg


scorp2.jpg


Well, the gut finally broke on me. Sorry, no pics as I dont' have a camera here. Either way, here's how it stacks up:

In the end:

WeissCANNON Scorpion 1.22 / PerforMAXX WhisperTouch 17L Natural Gut

Power: 8.5/10

Control: 9/10

Feel: 9.5/10

Spin: 8.75/10

Durability: 8/10

Tension Maintenance: 9.75/10

Total: 53.5/60

Final Total: 89/100

This one will certainly be hard to beat. The poly had long gone dead, but yet the gut just did its job and kept the feel to the point that it played like a low-feel poly setup. I honestly cannot see myself finding a better setup.
What is the tension setup for this?
 

pvaudio

Legend
Performaxx Light Touch / ThunderStrings Storm 1.25

Performaxx Light Touch / ThunderStrings Storm 1.25

thunbig.jpg


thuni.jpg


Stringing: This was about as middle of the road as it gets as far as stringing. Natural gut mains, and a medium stiff poly. Not buttery smooth like CoFocus or a Weisscannon offering, but not like Alien. In other words, just what you'd expect. No notching, knots were easy and it just looks nice. Strung 42/38.


Groundstrokes:
As I've said before, this setup is unique. Not groundbreaking or earth shattering, but simply unique. With that said, it's speciality does not line up with my goals. The strings feel as though they simply absorb incoming pace and redirect it with the same amount regardless. This would work if you play defensively or a pushing oriented counter-punching game. Seeing as I do neither, it doesn't work for me. Not the spin I was expecting, and the lack of flat shot ability makes it hard to close off points.
Overall: 7.5/10

Serves:
Unimpressed for the same reasons as above. There is simply just not enough solid power transfer. It makes every serve want to be super consistent. That's fine if you want to play that sort of game. Considering I serve to the corners and the body, that's not really useful for me. There isn't enough spin again to make it hard to return. It sits up on anything but the fastest of hard courts (extrapolation since 99% of recreational hard courts are slow).
Overall: 8/10

Volleys:
Interesting here. You would expect to have a lot of feel and be able to place volleys as you please, but it doesn't really work that way. You end up making more errors at the net than you expect because again the stringbed sucks the ball into it, and you need to toss it into the court. That's not good for an offensive volley. Overheads are much the same.
Overall: 7/10

Durability:
Nothing broken here and no notching. String movement and snap-back is excellent, and due to the low tension, I would say the gut will last a long time. However, the poly likely will run out of steam quickly. I can't say that without having it happen, but it's a common trend with low tension setups.
Overall: 8/10

What we have here is a very specific player's setup. If you play defense, you owe it to yourself to try this. If you are a pusher, you must put this in your racquet. If you counter-punch, fool around with the tension. If you play all-court, serve-volley or baselining, look elsewhere. This is not for the offensive player. Your shots will not penetrate with any troubling pace or action. Will they go in? Yes. Will that be relevant since your opponent can dictate the point until he makes an error? Not at all. So it's really up to your game, and because of that, I can't rate it poorly since it just didn't work for me. I'll give it a slightly higher rating as I can see players with other styles loving its characteristics.

Overall: 8.25/10
 
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Bahama Scott

New User
LT/Scorp and Scor/LT

PV, would you kindly provide a complete review for these two setups, like you did for the one above on LT and Thunderstrings all at 41? I have searched and searched and can only find snippets of info about each but they seems to continue to be your favorites but I cant find thorough reviews and comparisons.
Thanks in advance.
 

levy1

Hall of Fame
Drop down to 49/46, gut/Scorpion. I find that in the lower tensions, WT gets too lively.

Getting ready to string up your best setup. So to make sure I string the Scorpion in the mains at 46 and the gut in the crosses at 49? Do I have this right?
 

blkkirk

New User
PV thank you again for all your play tests. I have tried many of them which has saved me time and money. Just starting to try performax LT. Started with LT in the mains(40) and MSV in the crosses at 37. Nice setup but am getting a lot of cross movement with the msv. I think I will up my tension on the cross next time. I strung it to 40/40.

I wanted to bring to your attention that the Cyclone 18g is much better than the 17g. I have heard this from others also. It is my favorite setup to date in a full bed or any hybrid that I have tried. I know you tried the 17g string at a much higher tension but notice you have been dropping your tension down. Might be worth a retry at the 18g and lower tension.
 

pvaudio

Legend
Wouldn't recommend that tension.

As of now, the Scorpion is the king. Perhaps I was just destined to use this stuff, who knows. I just turned someone else on to my original setup, Scorp/WT Pro and he loves it too. This is why I love stringing and being able to test strings: giving someone else something that makes them a better player based on your recommendation is a good feeling :)
 

levy1

Hall of Fame
Strung racket with Proformaxx WT 1.20 mains and Weiss Cannon Scorpion Crosses. 50/47. Hated it!!! (for the first 15 minutes) Loved it from then on. Thanks PV. A great combo!
 

levy1

Hall of Fame
So you think he should have gone up/down 4 pounds on the setup? Right now I'm stringing WT/Scorp at 54/50 (probably will try 53/49). What would that mean for me if I decide to try Strom Metal too

Or were you referring to a different previously mentioned setup?

Are you stringing WT in the mains?
 

Bahama Scott

New User
Wouldn't recommend that tension.

As of now, the Scorpion is the king. Perhaps I was just destined to use this stuff, who knows. I just turned someone else on to my original setup, Scorp/WT Pro and he loves it too. This is why I love stringing and being able to test strings: giving someone else something that makes them a better player based on your recommendation is a good feeling :)

PV forgive me for being a squeeky wheel here but can you provide some more thorough information about the two setups and compare or direct me to where you may have provided that information someplace else. The set ups I am referring to are the Scorp/Whispertouch or Light Touch at 41 pounds each and/or Whispertouch or Light Touch/Scorpion.

I just had my APD strung LT/Scorp 41/41 and it felt completely comfortable immediately. Only used it during half of one lesson and my pro commented on how active the ball was compared to another racquet.

Thanks for the information in advance.
 

levy1

Hall of Fame
Yup, and I'm about to compare the Scorp crosses to Storm crosses, one in each racquet, at the same tensions. Then I'll try out P'maxx Classic Touch.

I am getting ready to try WT mains at the same tension 50 with hex crosses and see if I can tell a difference. What about this poster at 41lbs?
 

pvaudio

Legend
PV forgive me for being a squeeky wheel here but can you provide some more thorough information about the two setups and compare or direct me to where you may have provided that information someplace else. The set ups I am referring to are the Scorp/Whispertouch or Light Touch at 41 pounds each and/or Whispertouch or Light Touch/Scorpion.

I just had my APD strung LT/Scorp 41/41 and it felt completely comfortable immediately. Only used it during half of one lesson and my pro commented on how active the ball was compared to another racquet.

Thanks for the information in advance.
The reason I advocated the LT is because the poly feels outstanding at lower tensions. If you string WhisperTouch at such a low tension, you're going to get a panzerfaust instead of a stringbed. I tried LT at a cross at a tension far higher than recommended, and it predictably played about as good as a mediocre multifilament. Once I read the packaging instructions (I'm an engineer, cut me a break :D ), I realized it is meant to be used at lower tensions. Do not mistake however: LT gut / poly at low tension will not be similar to WT gut / poly at higher tension (even in the proper tension range for poly). The LT setup will still be lower powered, but will have more feel. It's a personal choice. I cannot vouch for using LT in the crosses in the low 40s as I did not do it.
 

levy1

Hall of Fame
The reason I advocated the LT is because the poly feels outstanding at lower tensions. If you string WhisperTouch at such a low tension, you're going to get a panzerfaust instead of a stringbed. I tried LT at a cross at a tension far higher than recommended, and it predictably played about as good as a mediocre multifilament. Once I read the packaging instructions (I'm an engineer, cut me a break :D ), I realized it is meant to be used at lower tensions. Do not mistake however: LT gut / poly at low tension will not be similar to WT gut / poly at higher tension (even in the proper tension range for poly). The LT setup will still be lower powered, but will have more feel. It's a personal choice. I cannot vouch for using LT in the crosses in the low 40s as I did not do it.

I was playing Klip legend gut 18ga mains with Head control crosses at 58lbs. The setup was OK. I replaced the crosses with WC Turbo twist at 53 lbs and still did not like it.
I wanted to try the Pmaxx LT 17L (1.20) so I ordered a set and strung it up ( always 2 piece) at 56lbs. I really liked it even though the range on the package was 25-50lbs.

Then I bought the WT 17L (1.20) strung that in the mains at 50 and WC Scorpion in the crosses at 47lbs. I like this setup best. I see the WT range is 50-60.
I am older and need some power. My next setup was going to be WT cross at 50 and msv focus hex at 47 just to see if I can tell the difference.

Next I want to use Pmaxx gut at a little lower tension in mains with scorpion crosses.
Which Pmaxx should I use and what tension do you recommend.

Thanks for all your help.
 

Bahama Scott

New User
Thanks PV for the explanation. I have just have one of my APD Cortex with the LT/Scorpion 41/41 and really enjoying it. It is very soft and gentle on my arm, spin is just terrific, power is a little bit less than my normal setup which is really good and allows me to swing away at the ball a little harder so I find the power just perfect. Others who are new to this might guess that this setup would be impossibly different but this particular setup is not. I just love this setup and will convert my other racqets soon.
 

levy1

Hall of Fame
Thanks PV for the explanation. I have just have one of my APD Cortex with the LT/Scorpion 41/41 and really enjoying it. It is very soft and gentle on my arm, spin is just terrific, power is a little bit less than my normal setup which is really good and allows me to swing away at the ball a little harder so I find the power just perfect. Others who are new to this might guess that this setup would be impossibly different but this particular setup is not. I just love this setup and will convert my other racqets soon.

What tension were you using before the 41/41?
 

levy1

Hall of Fame
PV forgive me for being a squeeky wheel here but can you provide some more thorough information about the two setups and compare or direct me to where you may have provided that information someplace else. The set ups I am referring to are the Scorp/Whispertouch or Light Touch at 41 pounds each and/or Whispertouch or Light Touch/Scorpion.

I just had my APD strung LT/Scorp 41/41 and it felt completely comfortable immediately. Only used it during half of one lesson and my pro commented on how active the ball was compared to another racquet.

Thanks for the information in advance.

Is it still working for you?
 

pvaudio

Legend
Keep switching between Co Focus and Scorpion. Damn these German polys, damn them. It's now become like my picking between Scorpion and B5E mains. Each has its own delicious feel. I don't think I tried LT/CoFocus at proper tension, but even now, after settling them in, I think the WT/CoFocus bed is better. The Scorpion gives more control, yes, but I don't know. It just lacks that responsiveness.
 

Bahama Scott

New User
Is it still working for you?
Yes! It is amazing! I've got all sorts of control and my topspin forhands and backhands are crazy...diving down then accelerating and jumping off the court. My new pro keeps saying wow look at the spin you are putting on the ball and this is with a new grip that I am working on.

I just bought a new/used racket that had about one hour on it strung with a poly (forget which one) and I took it out this morning. Played 5 minutes and put it up. I am having it re-strung today with the same configuration.

Interestingly the strings don't pop back into place like my older setups did at a more normal strength and with the whisper touch in the crosses with Scorpion in the mains...that string was ready to fall apart and yet the strings continued to go back into proper position.
 

Posture Guy

Professional
pv......love the reviews.

I just demoed Pacific Classic Gut with B5E crosses, and loved it.

Then I tried the same mains with Co-Focus crosses and wow, REALLY loved that. In the midst of drilling went back to try the B5E and now in comparison it felt dead.

the gut mains/co-focus crosses is so far the best combo I've yet found. Great spin, very good control, controllable power, excellent touch, and I LOVE the way it feels, and especially how it sounds. Just terrific in my Volkl V1 Classic MP.

Haven't tried Scorpion, but I love the feel of the co-focus. Wow, what a great combo.

Note: as a reference, I strung it at 60/56 on a Neos 1000, double pulling each main and cross per Irvin's video/suggestion for more replicating the results from a constant pull machine.
 
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