Discussion in 'Strings' started by pvaudio, Nov 22, 2010.
Couldn't agree more
Fine I'll cave PV can do you SpinX with comfort synthetic?
Boy, MCS is really taking off on the boards now!
Five sticks today:
1x Genesis SpinX / Mantis Comfort Synthetic
2x WeissCANNON B5E / WhisperTouch
2x WeissCANNON Scorpion / Whispertouch
I'll string the 6StarString later.
Who makes Whisper Touch?
jackb1 - its PERFORMAXX
Really nice pvaudio..Looking forward to B5E review
How did you get so many sets of Whisper Touch? Thought it was one per person?
Can't wait to hear these reviews.
Where can one purchase whispertouch. I know it's Perfomaxx, but do they sell it from there own site or is there some other retailer that sells it?
wow...you got those strings fast. if only i lived closer to you for hitting and string testing.
Klip Legend 17 mains & Weisscannon Explosive crosses
Pacific Prime mains & Black Code crosses or X One Bi Phase crosses
WeissCANNON, WeissCANNON, WeissCANNON. How, and I mean HOW in the Hell do you do this? How can you make strings this good?
WeissCANNON Black5Edge / WhisperTouch
Stringing: easy to string. It's WeissCANNON. I can sleep under anesthesia with more difficulty than I can string anything from WC. Gut has already been covered. Strung at 55/57.
Playability: What, the ****. What....the ****. WC. Seriously? How are no pros using this string? Silverstring? Not even close. This is the string to choose from between Scorpion and B5E. If you want something softer, use Scorpion. If you want crisper, use B5E. This string is so unbelievably responsive, it defies logic. Seriously. The feel is astounding. More importantly, this setup is incredibly soft. For once, the description from a manufacturer is accurate.
This is the first "soft" poly that I have ever used. It feels like a multifilament, but plays like a poly. IF you can generate spin, the string gives you all that you want. Coupled with the gut, you can create sounds that shake your spine if you put up a 100+ flat serve. I'm not going to go on like some do and say "you just can't miss!!". What I'm saying is that this string does what you want it to do. You want to hit a short angle shot, it hits a short angle shot. You want a touch volley, you get a touch volley.
It has the characteristics of a high end multifilament and a high end polyester all in one. Astounding. Again, if you want something a bit softer, go with the Scorpion. If you want something a bit crisper, go with the B5E. WC, upon release of this string, is now the best string manufacturer out there and I stand by that statement 100%. If you sit there and think about it, they do not make a single bad string.
Durability: Frayed the gut about as much as the Scorpion. There's not much to talk about here yet. I played for an hour and a half against a good junior player and purposely gave him spin to drive him mad, and the WhisperTouch continues to show that it's no slouch when it comes to not only feel, but also longevity.
Overall: Tied with the Scorpion setup: 9.5/10
I didn't even bother playing with anything but going between the B5E and the Scorpion frames. They're just that good, so you'll have to wait for further tests once I get over how good both of these setups feel.
Thanks for the comments on the B5E. I have some coming in the mail. So Scorpion is still softer than B5E? Is it noticeably softer or just by a fraction?
Does the B5E give you more spin than Scorpion? How about power difference between the two?
So is this accurate?
If you want a softer feel, with less spin, go with Scorpion.
If you want a crisper feel, with more spin, go with B5E?
It sounds like B5E is a superior string in almost every way, so why would anyone pick Scorpion over it?
I have never strung guy before and do you do anything "different" when stringing Whisper Touch, as opposed to a multi?
I have a lot of NRG2 and Maxim Touch left. Do you think I will get similar results with Scorpion or B5E in the mains and
Maxim Touch or NRG2 in the crosses? (as opposed to gut)? thanks for a great thread!
Scorpion is still a softer string yes. The thing about B5E is that it doesn't feel like a poly. For example, Kirschbaum PLII feels like lemon meringue while Pro Supex Blue Gear feels like The Rack. They both still feel like polyester strings when hitting with them though. Scorpion feels like a polyester string, so if you want a poly which is very soft and lively, then that's the string to choose. B5E does NOT feel like a poly. It feels like a multifilament. Not a soft multifilament, but a thick gauge high-end multi...that sort of stiffness; it's rather hard to describe. But yes you're right: scorpion is still the softer of the two.
However, on your next point. B5E does give you more spin, but it's not super shaped like some strings are these days. That's why my "if" was in capitals (not a typo ). You need to be able to generate your own spin; this isn't the spin monster that WC says it is. It generates spin on the level of SpinX or Big Ace Micro. Scorpion generates slightly less spin, but still a very large amount. The power difference again is minute. Scorpion is the more powerful of the pair, clearly. However, Scorp lets you control that power better than B5E does. You rely more on the spin with the B5E than you do with the white stuff. If you were to hit the same shot, let's say an inside-in, DTL forehand winner, you'd make both shots and they would land in the same spot. The B5E shot would have more arc to it. That's because as I said in my Scorp review, coupled with the WhisperTouch, you can modulate exactly how much power you want going into every ball. That's harder with the B5E, but since it has more spin, it's a moot point.
So no, your conclusion is not correct. They are two different offerings for two different players. Scorpion is definitely for the player who must have absolute touch and power. B5E is for the player who must have spin and control. That's why I rated them both 9.5/10. You can play just as well with either, it just depends on what you're doing:
First Serves: Scorpion
Second Serves: B5E
While you could try it, I would bet that to get the results I'm talking about, you need something as responsive as natural gut. Maxim Touch is definitely not going to do the trick as it has as much power as Lesotho. NRG2 has the power, but it doesn't have the amount of feel that you get. Honestly, WhisperTouch, Klip, VS, Tonic, any natural gut would work. I choose the PerforMAXX because it's only ~20 bucks a set and plays better than all of them aside from VS which is in a class of its own.
What would you think of a hybrid with WeissCannon Black5Edge mains and LaserFibre SuperNatural Gut Pro Stock 17g crosses?
PV thanks for that great explanation. There is only one thing that I don't quite understand. You say Scorpion is softer and yet B5E feels like a multi?
I don't think even the harshest, stiffest multi comes anywhere near the softest poly. So if B5E feels like a multi...it couldn't possibly not be softer than Scorpion. Either way, lets just say that they are both soft!
I don't really know, nor do I really want to use any SNGPS if I don't have to. I only have a few REAL sets (I got a packet of cheapo string in SNGPS packaging ) of it left, so I'm planning on saving that for my customers instead. However, I am open to other ideas.
Honestly, it is too difficult to explain and you'd just have to try it. It's the most unique feeling string I"ve ever used, and if you've seen my string list which I posted a few pages ago, I've tried quite a few . Since I'm not affiliated with any company and just love tennis and stringing, I have no qualms about posting this from Guts and Glory Tennis. It's their description:
That pretty much sums it up perfectly. Hope that helps
I have been using TT. I'll have to order some Scorpion and B5E. By the way where can you buy the Whisper Touch. Sounds like a good alternative to VS gut especially when it comes to price.
Tks for the reviews; great stuff.
"WeissCANNON, WeissCANNON, WeissCANNON. How, and I mean HOW in the Hell do you do this? How can you make strings this good?"
tried the Hexonic 1.18/Gosen OGSM 17 hybrid...very acceptable string at a very reasonable price. control, spin, pop and decent comfort...tho this is very early in testing. can't comment on durability, playability life, etc yet.
pvaudio - apologies for hijacking your thread but u might want to pick up a set and give it a try. being a thinner gauge bumped up the tension 3 lbs from the Scorpion 1.22 hybrid.
thanks to PP and PED for recommending this one to me.
Sorry. It just sounded like WC B5E was a great spin, soft poly mains and, based on previous reviews, that LF SNGPS was an excellent cross.
Ah indeed, indeed. The reason why SNGPS is such a great cross is because it feels like natural gut which is obviously the best cross string that you can get. Since it's essentially cheaper to use the natty that I have (considering I might buy 5 sets of SNGPS, not get any, or get 2 and 3 fakes), I figure I'll just use WhisperTouch. When I run out of WhisperTouch, I have the Touch 17 (1.25 vs. 1.20) to fall back on. I'm working with the seller/manufacturer to get the uncoated version of both strings to see how it changes the playability and durability. I'm in love with this gut; it really is incredible value for playing second only to VS.
PS: I hope you get that AG100 sold, a great frame for sure!
Ok, now what if I want absolute touch and control? I use gut or a gut hybrid ( gut mains normally with the hybrid). Would that be the Scorpion or the B5E? Or would be another combination? So far that is.
Can you please let me know (w/o violating TW TT policies) more about WhisperTouch and Touch 17, and where to get them?
I am always on the look out for some good crosses.
I got mine on the Bay. The guy who's posted in this thread, stringingpro, is the seller on there.
Finally broke the last set of gut from the Scorp/WT setup from this pic:
It seems that with a big topspin stroke, you can get about 2 weeks of regular hitting out of it (3-4x a week). If you're a stringer, that's not bad at all since that correlates to about 10-12 hours for your poly which is around when you'd cut it out anyway. If you're using a textured poly, then you might want to up the gauge. We'll have to see how long the B5E setup lasts, then I'll have a better idea for you.
I still haven't tried my 6StarString Supercharged yet. These WeissCANNON strings are so good that I dunno if I want to start playtesting something else until they all break
PV...do u do anything special with the PM Gut strings? Do you add any wax? Prestretch? Wipe them down after playing? I have always wanted to try gut, but chickened out due to all the extra hassle that gut presents.
Also, most people think that gut in the crosses is a waste of gut, since 80% of the stringbed's feel supposidly comes from the mains. How do you respond to that? Wouldn't a hybrid of Scorpion or B5E mains w/ a syngut or multi cross feel almost the same?
Bad_Call liked that 6StarString. I'll be curious to hear your thoughts on it.
I hate seeing those rackets. A buddy of mine had to break down and buy them to replace his old models and I have not been able to beat him since he made the switch.
Have a good weekend.
For your first paragraph, no, not really. The coating on the strings is so good that they have next to no coil memory whatsoever. I apply a 15% prestretch via the machine, however. As far as prestretching to remove coil memory, then no. It's as easy to string as a syn gut, and that, is not an exaggeration. I've trying to get my hands on some of the uncoated version of the string to compare. I'm expecting harder stringing, but even better performance.
VS, on the other hand, is a handful. That does tangle very easily and kinks even more easily. That takes a lot more caution and is far more difficult to get through blocked grommet holes. The PerforMAXX strings are a breeeze to string in comparison. However, VS is still a better playing string, and I think that everyone in the world knows that they can't beat its performance (especially in the mains). It is, however, overpriced, as the performance difference isn't that large. Thing is, when you own the market, you control the price. Don't be intimidated by natural gut: it's just another type of string. You're as likely to break it while stringing as you are NRG2 18 or any sub 1.20 multifilament. You just have to pull slowly, make sure to minimize friction when pulling the strings through and watch for kinks. Easy peasy.
I am one of those people: using natural gut in the crosses is in most cases a complete waste since gut's main advantage is exceptional feel and comfort. However: no other string is as good a cross string as natural gut is. Nothing has the softness, nothing has the power, nothing has the touch. You cannot polish a turd, so using natural gut with Black Code mains would be a complete waste. Using natty with a very complementary main string makes perfect sense. ALU/VS works exactly the same way: they complement each other perfectly, and no multi let alone a basic nylon syn gut can even come close. Using either a multi or a syn gut, you're just trying to soften up the stringbed. Using natural gut does that, but also significantly increases feel and power compared to those two. Natty complements these strings perfectly, just like SNGPS complements Mosquito Bite perfectly while NRG2 does not. It depends on the specific combination as to whether or not it's worth it.
So basically it's like this: if you're using gut to soften a harsh stringbed, you're wasting money. If you want to create a great duo, then gut is a good option IF the main is appropriate.
The AG100 is IMO, the best frame Dunlop has ever made. The market just wasn't big enough for it which is a huge shame as it's more powerful than the 18x20 AG200, spinnier, lighter, more flexy and far more maneuverable. I now own 13 of them since I can't find anything that plays even remotely similar, so I won't bother switching
How does the black5edge compare to mosquito bite? Deciding between which one to get
Hey PV not sure if your planning on doing this but can you try Black5edge with Comfort Synthetic? Seems like it would be a good cost effective set up.
I second this, it sounds like MAYBE a good set up. Hope you try this one out and give us the results. Nice idea Icedorb.
Ditto. For my next purchase I'm trying to decide between Turbo Twist (which I've been using for some time now and is currently my favorite poly) and Mosquito Bite and Black5Edge (I don't have any experience with these two strings yet). I'm looking for a mix of spin friendlyness and arm friendlyness.
Can't compare the two. The B5E is more of a baseliner's string while the Mosquito Bite is truly an all court string. Doesn't have as much spin, but is better at the net and is more powerful.
That's actually a very nice idea. Once I break my first set of WhisperTouch, I'll put in the MCS. I just wish they made it in a 1.20 instead of a 1.30. However, when tensioned, MCS thins out by a huge amount. The problem is that MCS has just about zero power, but amazing feel. Therefore, it'll be interesting to see how the B5E provides pop.
I will try this once I'm done with WhisperTouch and before I try the 1.25 Touch 17. I'm just hoping stringingpro gets some uncoated versions of his strings in so I can test those out. I'm really excited for those
^ That's a good one Question is, how long will it last? Won't the b5e saw thru the Mantis faster than the Scorpion did?
I have two blx 90's one strung with full performaxx gut 16g at 55 one with full MCS at 60, the mantis is more powerful, at least for the time being.
I'd have to see it to believe it. You must be using the X-HT version of the gut as well. MCS is one of the lowest powered multis out there as it is.
Would you consider MCS to have more power than syn gut? ie. Gosen OG Sheep Micro?
No, actually. Ask mikeler, he's the resident expert on MCS. He's the one who turned me on to it
It's touch 16 in there, hrmm how odd, I'll have to hit with them more since i've been using the gut and the MCS not so much (mainly due to it being easier to get spin from the gut).
The only multi I've tried with less power than MCS is the December Blind Playtest multi that TW sent out. I've never seen a string stretch that much on the stringer either. My racket needs 20' for the mains but I bet I could get away with 18' because it expands so much.
Can anybody comment on the durability of the MCS in a hybrid? I would think a textured poly would kill it very quickly. I'm guessing it might work OK with a smooth poly.
^^^ That play-test multi didn't have power. It was simply there so that the ball wouldn't go through the racquet face.
Initially, I thought the blind test did have a nice pop but after an hour or two of hitting, I noticed it totally lack power.
I'd rather hit with air than that string again!
Hey mikeler would you say its extremely low powered? Im using Gosen OG Sheep as my cross for my hybriding but since I've started using shaped poly mains the lack of feel was too great so I though MCS would fit. Or can you recommend another multi that has good feel and is not over about 10 bucks.
Depends what you are looking for out of that cross string. If it is comfort, then MCS for sure. It is low powered but I don't have problems generating pace when needed. For spin, you might try Head RIP Control or Dunlop Hexy Fiber. If you hit flat (which I don't), you may like Quasi Gut as a cross. MultiFeel has been my favorite multi to date at just under $10 a pack.
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