Queens ATP 500 FINAL - [1] Marin Cilic vs [WC] Novak Djokovic

Who will lift the Queen?

  • Total voters
    57
  • Poll closed .
He's won nothing in two years except two 250's, is mentally completely off and hasn't the fitness required to win a major. If you dissent, produce viable evidence to refute this. ;)
 
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BeatlesFan said:
Check back in three weeks. He is not winning Wimbledon unless the entire field has an atom bomb dropped on them and have expired. And you didn't answer my original question: he's won nothing in two years except two 250's, is mentally completely off and hasn't the fitness required to win a major. If you dissent, produce viable evidence to refute this. ;)
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Odds are he probably won't. Do you not understand how probability works?

Also why would he need the entire field to be killed? Is he the 128th most likely to win Wimbledon?

I said he's 3rd actually and could be 2nd (or 4th was implied) because I said he, Cilic, and Nadal are all close.

Turns out the oddsmakers are MORE sanguine on Novak's chance than I am.

But even that is not good enough for you. The tone of your post here shows you are coming from a biased position rather than looking for genuine opinions on Novak's grass level. I've already stated my own many times on this forum that he's one of the few that can play on the surface (despite not being a natural) and he could easily crash out in the 2nd round but he also has a small, but plausible chance of winning the whole thing. His improvement in form on the surface, despite "subpar" opponents including a tight 3 setter with Cilic today re-inforce my belief.

Have a nice night.
 
tenisdecente said:
Let me get this straight - you are the biggest Djokovic hater here, and now you are praising him? It is weird to read objectivity from you about the Serb

/sarcasm mode off

I would kill to read similar posts about Federer from the usual haters. Oh my, dreaming is free :D
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Ha ha! I must have suffered a concussion or something! :D I really do think Djokovic looked good today until his mental collapse vs Cilic(funny to see that instead of the reverse for a change!) Everything looked pretty solid, for sure more solid than it has been for a couple of years(which isn't saying much! :p)
I don't think he'll be likely to win Wimbledon but you never know what kind of draw he'll get or if his draw will open up and other players who are bigger favorites will be knocked out.
 
cc0509 said:
Ha ha! I must have suffered a concussion or something! :D I really do think Djokovic looked good today until his mental collapse vs Cilic(funny to see that instead of the reverse for a change!) Everything looked pretty solid, for sure more solid than it has been for a couple of years(which isn't saying much! :p)
I don't think he'll be likely to win Wimbledon but you never know what kind of draw he'll get or if his draw will open up and other players who are bigger favorites will be knocked out.
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According to the odds makers Djokovic is second favourite at $7 narrowly in front of 3rd favourite Cilic. It's not an unreasonable assessment: Cilic was runner up last year and Djokovic is perceived as having more scope for improvement coming off the narrow loss at Queens.
 
It depends on when he come out of his slump, he is getting better, will he come out of slump at Wimbledon, who knows, odds makers are not going to make him a long shot, if he managed to win they'd lose a fortune..

Cheers
3Fees :)
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Absolutely gutted. Novak had the match in the palm of his hand but he choked at the very worst time. :(
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Shows he's not quite there mentally yet. Still lacks his old killer instinct. I was wondering when was the last time he lost a final after holding match point (do we need to go as far back as 2009 Madrid)?
 
tenisdecente said:
Let me get this straight - you are the biggest Djokovic hater here, and now you are praising him? It is weird to read objectivity from you about the Serb

/sarcasm mode off

I would kill to read similar posts about Federer from the usual haters. Oh my, dreaming is free :D
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I also cant stand Djokovic but it cant be denied that he did very well at Queens.And it is not like Djokovic was blown out by Cilic in the final - he had MP on Cilic serve and was 3 points away in the TB from winning the title.He is regaining form for sure
 
My impression is his groundie timing are still off.
OK with lower rankers but can't handle top players yet. He can defend but can't attack (at high level).
Serves well but struggles to hold serve.

He needs more slam matches to gain back the top form.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Check back in three weeks. He is not winning Wimbledon unless the entire field has an atom bomb dropped on them and have expired. And you didn't answer my original question: he's won nothing in two years except two 250's, is mentally completely off and hasn't the fitness required to win a major. If you dissent, produce viable evidence to refute this. ;)
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But field is very weak now.
It's basically Federer and Cilic are top grass court players and others are weak field.

Yes, I agree he doesn't appears to have match fitness/toughness ready yet.
 
cc0509 said:
Didn't you post less than 24 hours ago that it doesn't even take you five minutes to get over a Djokovic loss these days? :confused: I knew you were FOS! ;)
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I saw that and I thought to myself "just wait until cc0 sees that." You never disappoint.:p

How about you give these guys a break, huh?:D
 
ewiewp said:
My impression is his groundie timing are still off.
OK with lower rankers but can't handle top players yet. He can defend but can't attack (at high level).
Serves well but struggles to hold serve.

He needs more slam matches to gain back the top form.
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And his forehand looks so awkward nowadays. I get that it’s probably because of his elbow but it used to be such a strong shot
 
abmk said:
Like I said, your statements are again and again like that of a certain Donald ..............;)

you were BSing ...started with Cilic was up a break in the 4th set and then serving for the match --- your judgement of the match in that case was clearly mistaken.

my judgement is clouded when you try to make 2nd serve forced return errors as unforced ones to try to desperately justify your BS in initial statement ? LOL !
my judgement is clouded when you try to make it look a well enough returned BH return was not aggressive enough ? double LOL !

your BS was caught and exposed clearly.

Again, I said from the starting that Cilic did choke , I didn't say it only at the end, I said it at the beginning itself...I quoted it once, told you once more...but you are being delusionally crazy enough to say again that I said that at the end. Its more and more Donald T. style now.... Its just getting pathetic from your end . I'm starting to feel sorry for you.

against just in case you need another reminder ...this was part of my earlier post...

https://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/ind...c-novak-djokovic.619806/page-21#post-12421222

"you've got it completely wrong re: Wim 16 QF ...imagined that loss from Cilic to be a massive choke, when it wasn't a massive one at all. It had a lot to do with federer being ridiculously clutch in that QF."

I said it wasn't a massive choke. I didn't say Cilic didn't choke at all.
I said it had a lot to do with Federer being clutch, not everything ...
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You know I think you are cool but dude choose a different hill to die on here
 
Djokovic haters all coming out in full force as expected.

I still and always will believe in you Novak. Idemoooooo!
 
cc0509 said:
Ha ha! I must have suffered a concussion or something! :D I really do think Djokovic looked good today until his mental collapse vs Cilic(funny to see that instead of the reverse for a change!) Everything looked pretty solid, for sure more solid than it has been for a couple of years(which isn't saying much! :p)
I don't think he'll be likely to win Wimbledon but you never know what kind of draw he'll get or if his draw will open up and other players who are bigger favorites will be knocked out.
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Yeah, I agree. Djokovic looked good yesterday, nowhere near his peak, but pretty decent for at least being a contender at the sacred weed of London.
If I were you, I would go to check your head, maybe you fell to the floor and cant remember it ;)
 
paranoidandroid said:
Cilic will choke in a final against Fed. Needs Fed to lose early.
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Not really, he did a lot better at the AO pushing Fed to 5. Huge improvement compared to his Wimbledon 2017 performance.

No reason why he couldn't beat Federer at Wimbledon. Perhaps, it would be better for Cilic to meet Federer before the final (though I don't know if that's possible given their rankings).
 
Eren said:
Not really, he did a lot better at the AO pushing Fed to 5. Huge improvement compared to his Wimbledon 2017 performance.

No reason why he couldn't beat Federer at Wimbledon. Perhaps, it would be better for Cilic to meet Federer before the final (though I don't know if that's possible given their rankings).
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50% chance of them meeting in the SF and the other 50% in the final.
 
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tenisdecente said:
Yeah, I agree. Djokovic looked good yesterday, nowhere near his peak, but pretty decent for at least being a contender at the sacred weed of London.
If I were you, I would go to check your head, maybe you fell to the floor and cant remember it ;)
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:D I have no problem admitting when Djokovic's play looks decent or if he wins a challenging match I say, "too good." I always said if he starts to play well again, I'll be the first to acknowledge it and applaud him for it. What I have a problem with is the Djoko fanatics who exaggerate everything when it comes to Djokovic, i.e. if he beats players like Millman, Chardy we have to see a hundred posts about how Djokovic is back and how he'll win Wimbledon and be like he was in 2015. Then we saw him lose to the first top player he played(Cilic), i.e. who used to be Djokovic's biggest pet rat.

He's not "back" until he can beat quality players and win big tournaments again. Some of these fans never learn a lesson. But I do think he has improved and looks a lot better.

Pagoo said:
I saw that and I thought to myself "just wait until cc0 sees that." You never disappoint.:p

How about you give these guys a break, huh?:D
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I would have given D2011 a break but HE was the one who initiated things and posted a taunting post to me after Federer lost to Coric. He said something to the effect, "I'm sure you're happy for Coric beating Federer as you always go on about how the younger players need to step up!" I told him I was fine with Coric beating Federer. Then Djokovic loses to his pet rat, Cilic. What's good for the goose isn't always good for the gander apparently! :p

Djokovic2011 said:
Only because of how close he came to winning. If he'd been losing convincingly it wouldn't have bothered me in the slightest. Oh well, you can't win 'em all.
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If you say so! ;)
 
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cc0509 said:
If you say so! ;)
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Tbh I had a feeling you'd latch onto that post as soon as I sent it. :D Seriously though, does it not bother you slightly more when Federer loses a really close final(like this year's IW for instance) compared to when he loses fairly convincingly?
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Tbh I had a feeling you'd latch onto that post as soon as I sent it. :D Seriously though, does it not bother you slightly more when Federer loses a really close final(like this year's IW for instance) compared to when he loses fairly convincingly?
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Not at a tune-up to an eager young gun. If we're talking when Federer lost the close Wimbledon 2008 marathon to Nadal, then yes.
 
cc0509 said:
Not at a tune-up to an eager young gun. If we're talking when Federer lost the close Wimbledon 2008 marathon to Nadal, then yes.
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Yeah but Federer's won plenty of tournaments since his comeback, including three majors. Djokovic hasn't won a single title for a year now!
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Yeah but Federer's won plenty of tournaments since his comeback, including three majors. Djokovic hasn't won a single title for a year now!
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Djokovic's game is looking a lot better all of a sudden. Great defense, good depth and accuracy with his shots, good serving. He's getting to a better place. The thing I'm curious about is how he will handle some of the better younger guns as he ages i.e. Kyrgios, Zverev, Thiem, etc.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
Yeah but Federer's won plenty of tournaments since his comeback, including three majors. Djokovic hasn't won a single title for a year now!
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He should have won Queen's and he knows it. Let that one slip through his fingers (no disrespect to Cilic who played a fine match and deserved the win). Seems still a little mentally rusty given that this is the first time he has failed to win a final after holding match point.
 
Djokovic served like a maniac yesterday. He served better than I have ever seen him serve, with the exception of the very last service game. This could the key to him aging gracefully. I believe that Djokovic got about 75% of his 1st serves in, while putting up 12 aces. That is spectacular.

The downside is that Cilic got the better of Djokovic on the longer rallies. Once a rally got to be 5 strokes or longer, Cilic had the upper hand.
 
cc0509 said:
Djokovic's game is looking a lot better all of a sudden. Great defense, good depth and accuracy with his shots, good serving. He's getting to a better place. The thing I'm curious about is how he will handle some of the better younger guns as he ages i.e. Kyrgios, Zverev, Thiem, etc.
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He's looking better but IMO the depth and pace on his groundstrokes isn't quite there(especially on the forehand), nor is his mental strength as was clearly demonstrated in yesterday's final. His serve and defense did look very impressive though and it was nice to see him playing with fire and passion again. As you would say, let's just wait and see what happens. ;)
 
Djokovic2011 said:
He's looking better but IMO the depth and pace on his groundstrokes isn't quite there(especially on the forehand), nor is his mental strength as was clearly demonstrated in yesterday's final. His serve and defense did look very impressive though and it was nice to see him playing with fire and passion again. As you would say, let's just wait and see what happens. ;)
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I think his forehand is looking pretty good, better than his notoriously great backhand at times. He's not back to his best mentally yet but that should sharpen with more wins.
 
Djokovic2011 said:
I really hope you're right. :)
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I don't! ;)

Just kidding. It's good to have a field with more competitive players challenging each other IMO.

In all seriousness, out of the matches I've watched this year, some of the best have featured Djokovic, i.e. Djokovic vs Cecchinato at RG, Djokovic vs Cilic at Queens.
 
cc0509 said:
I don't! ;)

Just kidding. It's good to have a field with more competitive players challenging each other IMO.

In all seriousness, out of the matches I've watched this year, some of the best have featured Djokovic, i.e. Djokovic vs Cecchinato at RG, Djokovic vs Cilic at Queens.
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No Djokovic, no party. :p
 
BeatlesFan said:
Seriously, how can a guy who has lost to journeymen all year be the second favorite for Wimbledon? He's won two tournaments in two years, hasn't won anything beyond a 250 in 24 months, but he's the second favorite? Where does this come from? He's still easily 30% off his 2015 form and was clearly gassed at the end of today's match. 2015 Novak blisters Cilic 3 and 3 today instead of losing from a winning position.
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You better be careful with making these hyperbolic statements. From that Djokovic vs Cilic match yesterday, you can see that Djokovic is playing much better. Just because a player looks like toast one day doesn't mean it will continue that way indefinitely.

IMO Djokovic isn't back to his best yet and he will probably be vulnerable to many different sorts of players at Wimbledon depending on his draw. But what if he has a decent draw or his draw opens up? Outside of Federer and Cilic(who I think are the top two favorites to win Wimbledon depending on the draw), you'd have to place Nadal and Djokovic as third and fourth favorites. Otherwise, who else would you pick to win the title? You can't pick any of those young guns until they prove themselves at the slams.
 
Out of the 5-12 seeds, I reckon Djokovic is the one the top 4 would most like to avoid seeing in their quarter. Delpo is the other one, but his fitness is questionable after the withdrawal, and his record at Wimbledon is not that great.

Other than that, we have a few big servers - Querrey, Isner, Anderson, who can be dangerous on their day but can also be upset, and Thiem and Dimitrov who have not convinced on grass this season.

And Goffin.

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
 
mightyjeditribble said:
Out of the 5-12 seeds, I reckon Djokovic is the one the top 4 would most like to avoid seeing in their quarter. Delpo is the other one, but his fitness is questionable after the withdrawal, and his record at Wimbledon is not that great.
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He's played some extremely memorable matches at Wimbledon. Who can ever forget the marathon semi-finals he played against Federer at the 2012 Olympics and against Djokovic the following year at the 2013 Championships?
 
merwy said:
And his forehand looks so awkward nowadays. I get that it’s probably because of his elbow but it used to be such a strong shot
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I know. Not sure if I would describe it as "awkward" but it's clearly visable change.

But I think I like his new forehand overall.
He reduced big loops and simplified it.
I think his forehand used to have some downside from his loopy swing with extra long arm. :p
I think it will benefit him in the long run.
 
BeatlesFan said:
Seriously, how can a guy who has lost to journeymen all year be the second favorite for Wimbledon? He's won two tournaments in two years, hasn't won anything beyond a 250 in 24 months, but he's the second favorite? Where does this come from? He's still easily 30% off his 2015 form and was clearly gassed at the end of today's match. 2015 Novak blisters Cilic 3 and 3 today instead of losing from a winning position.
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOL
 
BeatlesFan said:
Check back in three weeks. He is not winning Wimbledon unless the entire field has an atom bomb dropped on them and have expired. And you didn't answer my original question: he's won nothing in two years except two 250's, is mentally completely off and hasn't the fitness required to win a major. If you dissent, produce viable evidence to refute this. ;)
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LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!
 
To be honest, Djokovic' rapid increase in level in the last few months or even last few weeks is indeed astonishing. Not many people would have foreseen him winning Wimbledon.
 
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