Question on vibration

S

sureshs

Bionic Poster
I tested several wood rackets and almost of all them had severe vibration.

I was told that the reason for the reverberation is that many of the wood rackets have natural gut string from the 70s and such strings end up reverberating. I was asked to string fresh with synthetic gut.

Is this true? I don't want to put fresh strings only to find that the racket, not the string, was the issue.
 
Hmmm, not sure, but you can get some strange vibes when the strings lock in the 'wrong' position near the frame. So, a fresh stringing should alleviate that. But before doing that, you could try looking around the frame, and where the strings are pushing tight against the wood, push them in or out so that they are more free, and that might stop it.
 
Try waxing the string bed and using a little triflow where the strings may be dried to the wooden frame. :alien:8-B
 
String vibration and frame vibration are two different things.

String vibration can be managed thru dampeners, but the latter won't do anything to defeat frame vibrations. In general, the more flexible the frame, the lower the frequency (longer wave length) and greater the amplitude of its vibration, which would take longer to subside, thus making it more acutely felt. This was the whole point behind Kuebler's super stiff, super high frequency "Resonanz" frame design, which became the Wilson "Profile".

Wooden frames typically have RAs in the mid- to high-40s, so they will all vibrate like tuning forks unless the ball is struck right at the vibration node. Luckily, the typical vibration node on a conventional tennis racquet is very close to its center of percussion (the "sweet spot"). Therefore, as long as you are hitting the sweet spot on your strokes, "severe" vibration really shouldn't be much of an issue. If you are not, there is nothing you can do to avoid the dull and distracting "boiiiiiing" you are experiencing on impact.

If you are talking about string vibration instead, then a good vibration dampener should work just as well on a wooden racquet as it would on a graphite frame.
 
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sureshs said:
I tested several wood rackets and almost of all them had severe vibration.

I was told that the reason for the reverberation is that many of the wood rackets have natural gut string from the 70s and such strings end up reverberating. I was asked to string fresh with synthetic gut.

Is this true? I don't want to put fresh strings only to find that the racket, not the string, was the issue.
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By the same guy who told you servers didn't pronate on serve if using a woodie?
 
Bud said:
By the same guy who told you servers didn't pronate on serve if using a woodie?
Click to expand...
BTW, he is referring to this thread:

S

Thread 'Wood racket question for old folks'

I got to play for about 15 minutes yesterday with wood rackets at a Tennis Fest.

One of the teaching pros there told me that players did not pronate on the serve with wood rackets, since it was very difficult to do.

What do the old folks on this forum think about this?
 
Sanglier said:
String vibration and frame vibration are two different things.

String vibration can be managed thru dampeners, but the latter won't do anything to defeat frame vibrations. In general, the more flexible the frame, the lower the frequency (longer wave length) and greater the amplitude of its vibration, which would take longer to subside, thus making it more acutely felt. This was the whole point behind Kuebler's super stiff, super high frequency "Resonanz" frame design, which became the Wilson "Profile".

Wooden frames typically have RAs in the mid- to high-40s, so they will all vibrate like tuning forks unless the ball is struck right at the vibration node. Luckily, the typical vibration node on a conventional tennis racquet is very close to its center of percussion (the "sweet spot"). Therefore, as long as you are hitting the sweet spot on your strokes, "severe" vibration really shouldn't be much of an issue. If you are not, there is nothing you can do to avoid the dull and distracting "boiiiiiing" you are experiencing on impact.

If you are talking about string vibration instead, then a good vibration dampener should work just as well on a wooden racquet as it would on a graphite frame.
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This right here is your answer.

Further, just like modern racquets, some woods will be more flexible than others and will vibrate differently and more or less noticeably, and in different ways depending upon how the flex is distributed throughout the racquet. The concept of "layup" still applies, whether discussing modern materials here in 2026 or various woods and fiberglass/graphite combos in 1979.
 
If you're talking about reducing the effect of the natural frequency that all rackets have, rather than an unusual vibration, then a heavier wooden model will have a larger sweet-zone and a more dampened solid feeling normally. If the strings are in bad condition, a fresh set of syngut can help if you know a decent stringer and the frame is still solid. Power-pads on the bottom angled strings looks good and may help too.
 
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Hmm... interesting that in the wood era, natural gut was preferred by far by most tournament and amateur players. In all my readings, natural gut is the accepted norm with the pros. Same with instructional books of that era. It was stated -get gut if you can. Problem is that the fine, soft dynamic natural gut of that era is long gone now. Funny how even post WW II pros envied earlier pros for that finer produced natural gut.
Today's natural gut is far stiffer and coated heavily - 'tis for the large frames and poly style. I have been stringing for a long, long time and I have strung all guts - with a drop weight stringer you get a feel for any string as you progress. Today's gut is a far distant cousin to earlier guts for smaller, low powered wood frames.
So, for me, any talk now of playing the true quality of wood tennis is now not fair or accurate - the power and feel of good gut is not there. In the day, I played wood with synthetics as gut was not affordable for me. But I remember how different was the play of top players who enjoyed tight natural in wood - often heavy frames. Both my doubles partners played a Heavy marked Maxply with board tight, thin gut. When on, it was unbelievable what could be done with a tennis ball in top level play. No surprise there...
All I am saying is that grabbing a vintage light wood frame and stringing with poly or synthetics or today's gut ain't like riding the real race horse... Not at all. We need to understand that.
(My disclaimer - I greatly miss the utter variety, strategies and feel of the wood game - it was a different game...)
 
Moldyoak said:
This right here is your answer.

Further, just like modern racquets, some woods will be more flexible than others and will vibrate differently and more or less noticeably, and in different ways depending upon how the flex is distributed throughout the racquet. The concept of "layup" still applies, whether discussing modern materials here in 2026 or various woods and fiberglass/graphite combos in 1979.
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Every single wood racket I tried on the court (there were a dozen of them) vibrated
 
sureshs said:
Every single wood racket I tried on the court (there were a dozen of them) vibrated
Click to expand...
Yes, they will do that, especially the typical monoshaft, but it will be to differing degrees and as noted above, not only is there a difference between, say, a Jack Kramer PS and a Stan Smith auto, but there are differences between a 'light' version of one and a 'heavy' version of the same racquet.

If you want to get away from some of that, you might want to try some of the open throat woods like the Head Vilas, Rossignol C12 (very similar but not quite as stiff and slightly different string pattern) or the various other open throat woods of the mid to late 70s and early 80s. They were designed to be more stable, stiffer, often with ha;f to 3/4 glass or graphite facings and with glass or graphite added into various layers of the hoop. But I suspect if you're coming from the perspective of modern racquets, all woods are going to seem like they're vibrating. They're an utterly different animal than a modern racquet.
 
Moldyoak said:
Yes, they will do that, especially the typical monoshaft, but it will be to differing degrees and as noted above, not only is there a difference between, say, a Jack Kramer PS and a Stan Smith auto, but there are differences between a 'light' version of one and a 'heavy' version of the same racquet.

If you want to get away from some of that, you might want to try some of the open throat woods like the Head Vilas, Rossignol C12 (very similar but not quite as stiff and slightly different string pattern) or the various other open throat woods of the mid to late 70s and early 80s. They were designed to be more stable, stiffer, often with ha;f to 3/4 glass or graphite facings and with glass or graphite added into various layers of the hoop. But I suspect if you're coming from the perspective of modern racquets, all woods are going to seem like they're vibrating. They're an utterly different animal than a modern racquet.
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I want to stick to wood only, no other materials added.
 
If you've got some silly $$$ to spend you can always try the racquets from Epok tennis or Faelcon; they sure seem to take wood extremely seriously. Not sure if they are adding glass, fiber or graphite. For true 'old school' monoshaft style you might try Grays, again not sure if there is fiberglass or graphite involved but those guys definitely know wood racquets and you get the benefit of essentially a "new" classic wood racquet, no concerns with material deterioration.

I LOVE hitting with wood and try to do so as much as possible. What specific woods are you using, and string (gut is really a perfect match for wood), and tension? And since we're talking woods, what weight rating - L, M, H?

So you want wood with no glass, graphite etc added? Do I understand correctly? Those are likely going to be considerably older, certainly pre 1970s and likely even pre 1960s. You may run into many issues with both finish breakdown as well as glue breakdown, given the great age.
 
Moldyoak said:
If you've got some silly $$$ to spend you can always try the racquets from Epok tennis or Faelcon; they sure seem to take wood extremely seriously. Not sure if they are adding glass, fiber or graphite. For true 'old school' monoshaft style you might try Grays, again not sure if there is fiberglass or graphite involved but those guys definitely know wood racquets and you get the benefit of essentially a "new" classic wood racquet, no concerns with material deterioration.

I LOVE hitting with wood and try to do so as much as possible. What specific woods are you using, and string (gut is really a perfect match for wood), and tension? And since we're talking woods, what weight rating - L, M, H?

So you want wood with no glass, graphite etc added? Do I understand correctly? Those are likely going to be considerably older, certainly pre 1970s and likely even pre 1960s. You may run into many issues with both finish breakdown as well as glue breakdown, given the great age.
Click to expand...

Checked out the Faelcon site:

WOOD you play with me?​


LOL
 
sureshs said:
Every single wood racket I tried on the court (there were a dozen of them) vibrated
Click to expand...

It looks like you are indeed referring to frame vibration.

If that bothers you, then your options are very limited.

1) Try to find the stiffest racquet that fits your selection criteria. If graphite/boron facing is not allowed, then something in the Dunlop Maxply family of frames (51-53 RA) will be your best bet, unless you have access to more exotic selections with higher than normal shaft profiles, such as some Australian-made Alexander racquets with beefy rounded shafts, whose mid-upper 50s RA made them as stiff as some early composites.

2) If you are a tinkerer, you can try what René Lacoste did and install dampeners directly to the frame. He had experimented with weights suspended by a wire, elastomer wedged inside the frame, and elastomer danglers outside the frame, all of which are described in his 1976 patent. For the frame vibration dampener to work efficiently, it needs to be positioned at an antinode, meaning it must be either at the top of the hoop (not ideal, as it would increase the swing weight and collide with the ground), somewhere in the neck, or at the bottom of the handle. The third option was what Lacoste ended up choosing when he commercialized some of his designs, probably due to balance constraints. For the whole project to be worth your while, the dampener must also be frequency-matched to the frame (think of how "noise canceling" works); which is probably the hardest part of this experiment for an average DIYer.

3) Stick to long and fluid flat strokes to reduce the number of impacts outside the sweet spot, and just enjoy what tennis felt like during its first 100 years.
 
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How to Reduce Vibration in Wooden Tennis Rackets​

If you play with a wooden racket and notice excessive vibration, you can reduce it through equipment changes, accessory use, and playing technique.

1. Choose a Racket with Better Vibration Dampening​

Wooden rackets naturally transmit more vibration than graphite or carbon fiber, but you can still improve comfort:

  • Look for rackets with built-in dampening materials such as gels or composite layers
  • Larger head sizes increase the sweet spot, reducing vibration when you miss the ball
  • Heavier rackets (around 300–330g) absorb more vibration than lighter ones
  • Head-heavy balance can help dampen vibrations
 
sureshs said:

How to Reduce Vibration in Wooden Tennis Rackets​

If you play with a wooden racket and notice excessive vibration, you can reduce it through equipment changes, accessory use, and playing technique.

1. Choose a Racket with Better Vibration Dampening​

Wooden rackets naturally transmit more vibration than graphite or carbon fiber, but you can still improve comfort:

  • Look for rackets with built-in dampening materials such as gels or composite layers
  • Larger head sizes increase the sweet spot, reducing vibration when you miss the ball
  • Heavier rackets (around 300–330g) absorb more vibration than lighter ones
  • Head-heavy balance can help dampen vibrations
Click to expand...
300-330g is not a heavy wood racquet. Frankly, many if not most 'light' rated woodies are heavier than that. I have a 4 3/4 H maxply that is over 410g, and a 4 5/8 JKA 'professional select' that is over 400. Most of mine are all in the 370-390 range. That weight will help a lot.

Also what Sanglier posted in #3 above: absolutely, yes.

Hammers of the gods! :cool:
 
Moldyoak said:
300-330g is not a heavy wood racquet. Frankly, many if not most 'light' rated woodies are heavier than that. I have a 4 3/4 H maxply that is over 410g, and a 4 5/8 JKA 'professional select' that is over 400. Most of mine are all in the 370-390 range. That weight will help a lot.

Also what Sanglier posted in #3 above: absolutely, yes.

Hammers of the gods! :cool:
Click to expand...

Indeed that whole list appears to be contradictory to OP's original preference for a purely wooden racket. Having hit with >100 different woods, I'd say striking the middle is the key issue. I've never contemplated a dampener in a wood as the feel is usually still pleasant slightly off-centre.

Another point to mention is manufacturers used different types of wood in the same 'layup' to reduce vibrations as well as increase stiffness. So a multi-wood model would probably feel better than a single species version. Models I'd note for good off-centre feel include the Wilson Chris Evert Autograph, and the original Challenge No1, both of which have large walnut pieces in their shafts. My recently acquired Vilas Club is also very stable hitting.

P.S. the two Grays rackets I demoed last year were also very nice feeling despite being very lightweight for woods (360g strung). Only on really bad shots would you notice nasty vibrations. This may be because the wood was freshly cut, they were freshly strung, or because the epoxies used in construction were more modern.
 
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sureshs said:
Every single wood racket I tried on the court (there were a dozen of them) vibrated
Click to expand...

I still hit with a wood racquet at least monthly, and in my experience they only vibrate when I miss the sweet spot. With such a flexible hoop, the sweet spot is low on the racquet and if you hit it in the center of the hoop, that's probably above the sweetspot, especially on a more tired wood racquet. I usually try to make my modern racquets feel like a wood racquet does on impact.
 
Injured Again said:
I still hit with a wood racquet at least monthly, and in my experience they only vibrate when I miss the sweet spot. With such a flexible hoop, the sweet spot is low on the racquet and if you hit it in the center of the hoop, that's probably above the sweetspot, especially on a more tired wood racquet. I usually try to make my modern racquets feel like a wood racquet does on impact.
Click to expand...

I'd say you still need to hit in the centre, if that is defined as the widest point in the hoop. It's just on woods that point sits lower in the hoop because they are egg-shaped, and relatively higher in the hoop in tear-drop shaped graphites. So you have to get used to the feeling of hitting below the vertical centre, although that is actually the widest point so most easy to hit at.
 
Injured Again said:
I still hit with a wood racquet at least monthly, and in my experience they only vibrate when I miss the sweet spot. With such a flexible hoop, the sweet spot is low on the racquet and if you hit it in the center of the hoop, that's probably above the sweetspot, especially on a more tired wood racquet. I usually try to make my modern racquets feel like a wood racquet does on impact.
Click to expand...
That is why I first tried bouncing the ball on the strings to the ground. They were vibrating even then.
 
sureshs said:
That is why I first tried bouncing the ball on the strings to the ground. They were vibrating even then.
Click to expand...

You didn't say what the tension the gut strings were today? If they are quite loose, so you can push them in >3mm, they will be very boingy. Just as they would in a graphite racket too. In that situation, the string vibes drown out the frame resonance. If you get one freshly strung around 50lbs, the string vibes become more high pitched, and the frame vibes will become more woody sounding. If you have a good stick, it's like playing a marimba:

 
I suspect our original poster is characterizing the lower-frequency, higher-amplitude initial impact deflection characteristic of a wood frame with his term, “vibration.” All racquets vibrate; it’s how the impact energy dissipates. And some have correctly noted the inverse relationship between frequency and amplitude, and the corresponding general correlations to stiffness and weight.

On the TWU chart, I notice that the listed racquets I personally feel most comfortable with resonate at 130-135 Hz. Seasons I tried consistently using other models of >135 Hz (with static weight and balance being constant, all were tuned close to 350g/7 points HL) I experienced joint or muscle injuries or pain. I definitely think there’s something to this.
 
teachingprotx said:
Ughh I need to try and understand all this but I am not receiving the info . So if I like really flexible frames what vibration #,s are my wheelhouse ? Am I even asking this correctly .. it’s hard to understand. I’m not smart .
Click to expand...

With regards to this thread about wooden rackets, they all flex between about 60-90hz corresponding with their RAs of 30-40. You won't find it difficult to locate a flexy wooden racket.

The OP's chagrin with wooden racket's vibration can be overcome to some extent with heavy models, high quality models, fresh stringing or using a dampener, and most importantly, hitting the sweet-spot.

With regards to your quest to find a super-flexy graphite racket, and the chart I put in your Ultras thread, most modern sticks vibrate between 120-180hz corresponding to 55-75 RA. The vintage graphite rackets that you already have with lower RA flexes in the 42-55 RA range can be expected to vibrate around 100-120hz (MAX 200G vibrates at 100hz with 42 RA). However, no one metric will tell you how a racket feels to play, as the flexes and vibrations vary in different positions around the frame, so demoing remains essential.
 
I ordered this:

Wilson Stan Smith American Vintage Wood Tennis Racket – 4 3/8"

s-l500.jpg
 
The racquet above is a low-end model that was sold in big box and department stores, strung with cheap nylon and had a vinyl grip, and made with lower quality wood. This racquet is very far from the Stan Smith Autograph that he actually used.
 
JW10S said:
The racquet above is a low-end model that was sold in big box and department stores, strung with cheap nylon and had a vinyl grip, and made with lower quality wood. This racquet is very far from the Stan Smith Autograph that he actually used.
Click to expand...

I wasn't going to say anything, but yeah, if you want to experience vibrations, that should do nicely.
 
The actual Stan Smith autos are great racquets, I prefer them to the typical Kramer autos which are clearly more flexible through the throat.

No proof via period literature, but some the Kramers were "speed flex" with the lower, more typical flake and some were "firm flex" with a longer flake and stiffer shaft. I suspect for the Stan Smith models, they simply took the Kramer "firm flake" racquets and redecorated w/ the long dark triangle and dark diamonds on the lower hoop. They also stuck with rawhide hoop reinforcement for the SS models while the Kramers and Kramer PS appear to have moved on to fiberglass.

To the op, I'd try to grab a real Stan Smith autograph, or if you really want more solidity, just go directly to Head Vilas.
 
Moldyoak said:
The actual Stan Smith autos are great racquets, I prefer them to the typical Kramer autos which are clearly more flexible through the throat.

No proof via period literature, but some the Kramers were "speed flex" with the lower, more typical flake and some were "firm flex" with a longer flake and stiffer shaft. I suspect for the Stan Smith models, they simply took the Kramer "firm flake" racquets and redecorated w/ the long dark triangle and dark diamonds on the lower hoop. They also stuck with rawhide hoop reinforcement for the SS models while the Kramers and Kramer PS appear to have moved on to fiberglass.

To the op, I'd try to grab a real Stan Smith autograph, or if you really want more solidity, just go directly to Head Vilas.
Click to expand...
You have me excited. I two Vilas racquets and a Davis Classic in my alternate bag.
 
I think the Head Vilas racquets are the finest wood racquets ever made. I realize it's a debatable point, and some real purists have issues with the open throat and fiberglass facings, but hot damn, I feel like superman with one of those things. I rest content in knowing that it's still a woody and still a standard woody head size, and it's not like open throats hadn't previously existed.

Rossignol C12s are similar, but softer with palpably more flex overall. Do not feel as stiff as the Heads.

When it comes to monoshafts, I regularly prefer the Stan Smiths over pretty much everything else unless I happen to pick up a real hog of a Kramer or Maxply (do have a couple, real beasts).
 
Frankc said:
@Moldyak,
Do you enjoy the Dunlop Maxpli McEnroe wood?
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Yes, I have a super clean one that was pretty much never used, and it's stiffer than the standard forts but it's on the lighter side. I don't ever recall seeing a McEnroe that wasn't L or LM at most. I wonder if they ever made any in M or H? I've suspected, since his name was on it and I think it was the first with his name, he probably preferred the lighter variants and Dunlop just stuck with that for his 'namesake' racquets. By that point the trends were just beginning to move toward lighter racquets and graphite anyway, weren't they?
 
JW10S said:
The racquet above is a low-end model that was sold in big box and department stores, strung with cheap nylon and had a vinyl grip, and made with lower quality wood. This racquet is very far from the Stan Smith Autograph that he actually used.
Click to expand...
Good to know that. It should be here in a couple of days.
 
Just a thought - the weightier woods of that era are often better balanced with a larger grip size. That is why so many males played 4 7/8 and 5 grips in the day... 4 5/8ths was pretty normal for good juniors through prime time. Lighter metal frames and composites did change the grip size choice to perhaps smaller in that era...
 
Back in the day I played with Slazenger comp 1 and Dunlop Maxply two of the most stiffest racquets out there. Strung with Victor VS Gut (when I could afford it). I also strung them with Victor Staytite a nylon type of string which for me was affordable and lasted a long time. I never encountered vibration using these racquets in combination of gut and staytite strings.

Now the only racquet that was heavy and vibrated alot (which I hated) was the Wilson T-2000, 3000, etc. I think vibration came from all that interweaving of wire or guides they used at the time where strings were woven in between the wire guides... Alot of movement of wire guides to hold the pattern of tennis strings.

A good set-up with a stiff wood racquet with some modern Syn Gut strung say at 42 to 45 lbs would be an excellent choice for me. I quess you have to experiment if you haven't already?? Good Luck
 
sureshs said:
I tested several wood rackets and almost of all them had severe vibration.

I was told that the reason for the reverberation is that many of the wood rackets have natural gut string from the 70s and such strings end up reverberating. I was asked to string fresh with synthetic gut.

Is this true? I don't want to put fresh strings only to find that the racket, not the string, was the issue.
Click to expand...
Hey Sureshs, people are forgetting that racquets were wood laminated together with some moisture, glue compound and some heat for it to bond. They were slapped together in the factory in every part of the world. When you bought your racquet like I did in the SW, the dry environment seemed to change it drastically when playing it. Wood shrinkage was a common (for us) occurrence for racquets vs. living in a high humid part of the country, you had warped, tweeked problems. You may have vibration from minute cracking which you can't see and seperation of laminated wood. Not the strings. That would be the logical answer... Just saying!
 
Rustol said:
Hey Sureshs, people are forgetting that racquets were wood laminated together with some moisture, glue compound and some heat for it to bond. They were slapped together in the factory in every part of the world. When you bought your racquet like I did in the SW, the dry environment seemed to change it drastically when playing it. Wood shrinkage was a common (for us) occurrence for racquets vs. living in a high humid part of the country, you had warped, tweeked problems. You may have vibration from minute cracking which you can't see and seperation of laminated wood. Not the strings. That would be the logical answer... Just saying!
Click to expand...
The one I got now is good. Mint condition.
 
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