Questions and Issues about 911

[JohnnySpot]

I recently came across a poll you guys had in your tennis website that stated: "Do you believe the conspiracy theory?” meaning the 911 events. Now the majority of you chose NO, which is perfectly fine because everyone is entitled to their opinion, yes? But I say it is not worth arriving at a conclusion based on an opinion, and treating this issue as a sideshow.

I assume that many of you will stop reading after my first paragraph and say "oh stop, this is nonsense. How can you believe this?" Being an avid tennis player for 17 years now (how does this relate? Please, read on…), I have always applied my value of striving to learn about something I have little to no knowledge about except seeing it casually on TV.

When a person comes in to these forums and assumes they "know" everything there is to know about tennis, and give an incredulous claim that you as an experienced player understands is not true, then you find out that they have only casually watched tennis and have just started playing you would feel their claim is kind of silly, would you not? Claiming to know something about tennis with little to no knowledge is not acceptable in your eyes, so should claiming to know what transpired at 911 with little to no knowledge shouldn’t be acceptable too. It’s a required learning process.

So I ask you this: If you have already formed a belief, which is based on your opinion that was derived from little to no knowledge and no personal research of your own into the 911 events: can you honestly say that what you believe is fact?

I know this is a tennis forum, but right outside your own courts you have to deal with the consequences of the 911 events in your daily lives. I urge you to read what I have researched carefully, and encourage each of you to think for yourselves and do the same research and experiments yourself.

I will place questions that faced serious questioning at the 911 commission in my next reply to this thread. Thank you for your consideration.

 

[JohnnySpot]

First of all I would like to pose a general question: what is the scientific method? As you all may have learned in your high schools, and even middle school: The scientific method is a process that is the basis for scientific inquiry. The scientific method follows a series of steps: (1) identify a problem you would like to solve, (2) formulate a hypothesis, (3) test the hypothesis, (4) collect and analyze the data, (5) make conclusions.

Now this is common procedure in the science community. One would assume that meticulous gathering of all the data and evidence for stringent analysis is the best thing to do especially in a crisis event. Say, for example, a plane crashes or a crime is committed. I am sure each of you has seen CSI every so often, yes? What would you feel about evidence that was excluded or not considered in a crime scene? Not acceptable in your minds, I hope.

Now, I wasn’t exactly interested in the 911 events and took it what it was at the very beginning. I listened to the new casts, I read the items in the paper – but then I came across a video of four very brave and courageous ladies, who’s husbands died in the fateful 911 event (their husbands were in the two towers when they collapsed), that asked the govt. to answer their questions about how something could have happened and who was responsible.

At the top of their questions was: Why had the military failed to stop any of the hijacked planes? What they found, due to research, was shocking – which I will outline in the next reply.

These ladies were not answered sufficiently, even at the official 911 commission. They had to piece together the evidence on their own to pressure continued talks on 911 – but everything that the govt. did was inadequate and incomplete. These were grieving wives, mothers, and particularly US citizen women who especially deserved answers. The methodology that the govt. used to analyze the evidence was atrocious compared to the basic scientific method.

For the Bill Clinton ‘Monica Lewinsky ‘scandal, the govt. spent 100 million USD. For the initial research of 911, the govt. spent just 3 million. Over 3000 people died, and only 3 million was spent? That was a first clue that something was…amiss.

I highly encourage every one of you to watch the following video with unbiased eyes, but for those of you that do not have time I will lay out the basic plot of the video in my next reply.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250&q=press+for+truth&hl=en

 

[JohnnySpot]

Questions that need answering: 911, press for truth.

When a catastrophe happens, one questions: what happened and where, how did it happen, why did it happen, who was involved, and how can we prevent this in the future?

When something is amiss – there are clues and evidence, no matter how deeply buried that rise up. But there is so much evidence, where can one start? You can start with a question a then try to answer that question.

The question that was on the top of the women’s minds was: “Why had the military failed to stop any of the hijacked planes?”

To answer this question, one must follow a timeline of events that occurred on the day of 911.

TIMELINE
09/11/01 - 8:38 a.m. “Alert order to air defense” FAA alerted defense units of a possible hijacking at 8:38 Tuesday morning.

09/11/01 – 10:06 a.m. “Plane crash in Pennsylvania” the last plane associated with 911 was reported to crash in Pennsylvania, two hours with our civilian planes were flying around in the sky with no military defense.

This lead to the question of how and what do the military (in this case NORAD) do in the case of aircraft that didn’t file or diverted from flight plans or used the wrong frequency.

One such similar case was when a leer jet on 10/25/99, which was aired on ABC World News Tonight, was intercepted within 25 minutes of losing radio contact with the pilot. Six Military jets were sent to examine the situation and follow the aircraft, and the plane was tracked by the FAA on radar. It was mentioned that at high levels, the military and even the White House discuss what to do

On 911 there was a lack of immediate response by the president and his secret service detail. So how did they respond?

President Bush sat in an elementary school where he sat for more than 7 minutes after being informed of the 2nd attack on the WTC. Normal protocol in case of a heightened security event would have had the president to leave immediately. This protocol response of immediately evacuating was confirmed by a white house head of office in an interview just days after 911!

No military aircraft was available even remotely near New York, no response, and no activity even after two hours of the Pennsylvania case!

The lack of followed protocol when the FAA can see planes that deviate from their course (which the planes at WTC did) left the ladies to seriously question what was going on. But this was just the beginning. The more questions the ladies had, the more questions they came across. Very little answers were given by mainstream media and even the govt.

 

[Swissv2]

Great post. I have already seen the video that you have given and it was very clearly and thoughtfully laid out, while being sensitive to those fallen in 911 and family members directly affect by the event.

I feel that the video raised some legitimate concerns and outlined important issues that should be seriously considered by other members of this board.

Thank you.

 

[Trainer]

Why do you idiots always stop short of finishing your theory. You simply try to cast doubt and then quit. Why not go ahead and tell us what it is your saying.

That our government organized a plot to kill 3000+ Americans and bring down 3 buildings and a large part of the pentagon. And that this conspiracy was conducted by a an administration that was in office for 10 months. And in that 10 months they planned and implemented what had to be one of the most elaborate, sophisticated, well timed, fake attacks in the history of mankind.

And a few anomalies in how this event was recorded is your reasoning for this.

Please, leave. You're a fool.

 

[Swissv2]

Why do you idiots always stop short of finishing your theory. You simply try to cast doubt and then quit. Why not go ahead and tell us what it is your saying.

Please, leave. You're a fool.

First of all, your tone and the way you addressed this gentleman was inappropriate. Calling someone a fool and telling them to leave when they haven't even attacked you or your issues is quite rude.

If johnnyspot were to tell you everything he is saying, you would be reading at least over a 100 pages of information to get this started. Let him present his information, ok?

Calling people names and insulting their evidence without considering it just shows your immaturity and inability to take a step back and listen to what people have to say.

You are rude and insulting.

 

[raiden031]

Here's why I don't believe in the 9/11 conspiracy theories (aside from United 93 possibly being shot down).

1) Read the rest of the content on these 9/11 conspiracy websites like prisonplanet.com. The first word that comes to mind is PARANOIA, these people are nuts. They take every piece of news and put a government conspiracy twist to it. I doubt everything that happens in this world is somehow a conspiracy.
2) It seems that there are more cons than pros to executing such an act.
3) If its true and that the "presented" story couldn't have happened scientifically, then why would they present it in that way, knowing that there will be people who claim its impossible? They should know that this is America and people will always question everything.
4) How come the official investigations have not agreed with the conspiracists on the evidence? How can so many people be in on a conspiracy of this magnitude?
5) The only way this would work is if the conspiracy is far larger than just the 9/11 attacks themselves. People on this board have also noted conspiracies involving the CIA and Al Queda, and Iraq. How can all these conspiracies exist without a major leak? The government is just not capable of hiding something like this from the media.
6) Too many questions left unanswered like what happened to the planes and passengers.

 

[JohnnySpot]

I am shocked and surprised that as a new member of this board I have already been attacked for providing information that actually happened.

This is not speculation, this is not theory. These events are real events that have been documented in the press and media which are easily tracable. These events deal with real people and what they went through. These ladies are not fake, and they are certainly not 'nuts'!

I hope that fellow forum members are not in the same mindset as trainer.

 

[raiden031]

I am shocked and surprised that as a new member of this board I have already been attacked for providing information that actually happened.

This is not speculation, this is not theory. These events are real events that have been documented in the press and media which are easily tracable. These events deal with real people and what they went through. These ladies are not fake, and they are certainly not 'nuts'!

I hope that fellow forum members are not in the same mindset as trainer.

I'm surprised you believe information coming from a website like whatreallyhappened.com or prisonplanet.com rather than information coming from a legitimate source.

Once you explain how so many people can be in on such a conspiracy without a leak or whistleblower, then you'll turn me into a believer.

 

[Trainer]

I am shocked and surprised that as a new member of this board I have already been attacked for providing information that actually happened.

This is not speculation, this is not theory. These events are real events that have been documented in the press and media which are easily tracable. These events deal with real people and what they went through. These ladies are not fake, and they are certainly not 'nuts'!

I hope that fellow forum members are not in the same mindset as trainer.

What are you implying. Are you saying our government killed all of those people deliberately?

My apology is contingent on your answer to this.

 

[alan-n]

I'm surprised you believe information coming from a website like whatreallyhappened.com or prisonplanet.com rather than information coming from a legitimate source.

So what do you consider a legitimate source?

 

[raiden031]

So what do you consider a legitimate source?

how about a reputable research university.

 

[Trainer]

First of all, your tone and the way you addressed this gentleman was inappropriate. Calling someone a fool and telling them to leave when they haven't even attacked you or your issues is quite rude.

If he's buying into this 911 conspiracy BS, and all of the implications that come along with it, then I couldn't care less about him.

If johnnyspot were to tell you everything he is saying, you would be reading at least over a 100 pages of information to get this started. Let him present his information, ok?

No. Let him tell me what he's trying to say. It doesn't take 100 pages. Eithor there is some big Government coverup and conspiracy to kill these people or there isn't. Sounds to me that this is exactly what he's implying. And if so, screw him. If not, I'll gladly apologize.

Calling people names and insulting their evidence without considering it just shows your immaturity and inability to take a step back and listen to what people have to say.

I couldn't care less.

You are rude and insulting.

And this is precisely what I find these allegations about our country to be.

 

[alan-n]

how about a reputable research university.

Than read the BYU 911 research publishings, these were done by highly reputable people including former chief economist of Bush Sr.
Or read of the publishings from highly reputable people on the "911 Truth Movement". Some of them are former space program DOD directors etc and have published Univerisity papers on 911.

 

[JohnnySpot]

I'm surprised you believe information coming from a website like whatreallyhappened.com or prisonplanet.com rather than information coming from a legitimate source.

Once you explain how so many people can be in on such a conspiracy without a leak or whistleblower, then you'll turn me into a believer.

Raiden031, the premise for my investigation came from the video presentation of 4 wives of whom lost husbands in the towers of WTC on 911.

To start off, I would like to let you know that I have indeed looked at whatreallyhappened.com and prisonplanet.com and I can say that these sites have bias in their presentation of the material.

I believed that one of the best ways to analyze the circumstances of this event is to start with questions legitimately raised by these wives at the 911 commission hearings.

I realize that there are many varied theories that are floating around out there, but perhaps it is best to focus on what we know as fact and go from there. What I am talking about is the research, questions, answers given by the 911 commission, and personal experience by these 4 women since literally day one.

I know you may be busy but the video which I have provided answers your question and perhaps other questions you may have not with theory - but with actual news media provided information from CNN, ABC, MSNBC, and FOX available for you to research and read at any time.

You may view the video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250&q=press+for+truth&hl=en

 

[raiden031]

Than read the BYU 911 research publishings, these were done by highly reputable people including former chief economist of Bush Sr.

This BYU?

"BYU has repeatedly said that it does not endorse assertions made by individual faculty," the statement said. "We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."
Last fall, BYU faculty posted statements on the university Web site that questioned whether Jones subjected the paper to rigorous academic peer review before he posted it at physics.byu.edu. Jones removed the paper from BYU's Web site Thursday at the university's request.

 

[raiden031]

Raiden031, the premise for my investigation came from the video presentation of 4 wives of whom lost husbands in the towers of WTC on 911.

To start off, I would like to let you know that I have indeed looked at whatreallyhappened.com and prisonplanet.com and I can say that these sites have bias in their presentation of the material.

I believed that one of the best ways to analyze the circumstances of this event is to start with questions legitimately raised by these wives at the 911 commission hearings.

I realize that there are many varied theories that are floating around out there, but perhaps it is best to focus on what we know as fact and go from there. What I am talking about is the research, questions, answers given by the 911 commission, and personal experience by these 4 women since literally day one.

I know you may be busy but the video which I have provided answers your question and perhaps other questions you may have not with theory - but with actual news media provided information from CNN, ABC, MSNBC, and FOX available for you to research and read at any time.

You may view the video here: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5589099104255077250&q=press+for+truth&hl=en

Just because 4 wives believe there is a conspiracy doesn't mean there is. I don't give them any credibility than the average joe.

 

[JohnnySpot]

how about a reputable research university.

alan-n is correct.

There have been (and there should be) university professors, with extensive knowledge, that research this information. Their findings were presented in different media forms such as research papers, conferences, books, and websites.

While I cannot list all the professors that have contributed to the research of 911, I can give names of a few of them.

Paul Zarembka, Ph.D. State University of New York at Buffalo

David Ray Griffen, Ph.D. professor emeritus at the Claremont School

Steven E. Jones, Ph.D. professor of Physics at Brigham Young University

Kevin Ryan, former lab manager and scientist at Underwriters Labs, the company that tested the steel used in the World Trade Center buildings

and hundreds more.

Please note that as I outline the information presented I will be providing you with more professors and scientists that have researched and have released findings.

 

[alan-n]

This BYU?

"BYU has repeatedly said that it does not endorse assertions made by individual faculty," the statement said. "We are, however, concerned about the increasingly speculative and accusatory nature of these statements by Dr. Jones."
Last fall, BYU faculty posted statements on the university Web site that questioned whether Jones subjected the paper to rigorous academic peer review before he posted it at physics.byu.edu. Jones removed the paper from BYU's Web site Thursday at the university's request.

Not that one, the one of former Bush Sr's economist, and BTW of course the university is not going to endorse the physicist, it would be political suicide to. Do you really think that any American university is ever going to publish a physics explaination contradicting the NIST's report? That would be political suicide. And if any university outside of America does, well they must be anti-American then.

I take those political accusations and questions of character with a grain of salt.

 

[Trainer]

Johnny,

Go ahead, tell us what you are implying with these "facts" you're giving us. Tell us what they mean.

 

[raiden031]

Not that one, the one of former Bush Sr's economist, and BTW of course the university is not going to endorse the physicist, it would be political suicide to. Do you really think that any American university is ever going to publish a physics explaination contradicting the NIST's report? That would be political suicide.

Why? If its true and the facts back them up they have nothing to lose. Not even the anti-Bush media is presenting that it was a conspiracy because even they don't believe it. None of the democrats who are so critical of Bush are saying this, they are only complaining about Iraq.

 

[JohnnySpot]

Just because 4 wives believe there is a conspiracy doesn't mean there is. I don't give them any credibility than the average joe.

When you have lost someone, you should want answers. When your questions are not answered, you should seek answers. These women were not out to find a conspiracy theory. They were out to get their questions answered.

The video I am offering you to view is not about a conspiracy theory. Far from it. It is about their personal experience in trying to get answers to what happened on that day from the 911 commission!

I am not suggesting you to immediately believe all the information presented to you, I am only recommending that you watch it and come to your own conclusion. That is all I ask.

Finding what happened at 911 should require considering all the evidence from both sides and I can assure you I have read through almost the entire 911myths.org website! That website questions the validity of the 911, and They had very logical explanations for many anomalies that happened, so their information is worth looking at.

 

[Trainer]

I am not suggesting you to immediately believe all the information presented to you, I am only recommending that you watch it and come to your own conclusion. That is all I ask.

What conclusion did you come to, and are you trying to bestow it on us?

Finding what happened at 911 should require considering all the evidence from both sides

What sides are these. Please, tell us who they are. And most importantly, which side you are on.

and I can assure you I have read through almost the entire 911myths.org website! That website questions the validity of the 911, and They had very logical explanations for many anomalies that happened, so their information is worth looking at.

Exactly what are you saying?

Why is it that paranoid people feel the need to evanglize their paranoia?

 

[Swissv2]

Trainer, am I wrong in assuming that you would rather take an hour and a half going back and forth responding to jonnyspot to summarize the video for you in his own words, rather than taking and hour and a half to watch the video yourself?

 

[alan-n]

Why? If its true and the facts back them up they have nothing to lose. Not even the anti-Bush media is presenting that it was a conspiracy because even they don't believe it. None of the democrats who are so critical of Bush are saying this, they are only complaining about Iraq.

It doesn't matter if the facts back them up or not, people aren't known to believe facts. So what if the anti-Bush media or Democrats aren't saying anything, their audience is main stream America not intellectuals they are careful with what they say because their votes/political career depend on it.

 

[tennisfreak]

Trainer, am I wrong in assuming that you would rather take an hour and a half going back and forth responding to jonnyspot to summarize the video for you in his own words, rather than taking and hour and a half to watch the video yourself?

Dude,

That would be like asking George Bush to watch a video on Evolution.

 

[raiden031]

Why is it that paranoid people feel the need to evanglize their paranoia?

Yes there is little difference between the 9/11 conspiracy theorist and a televangelist.

 

[Swissv2]

What a conspiracy theorist does is state "I have this information and this is the truth". What the mothers in this video are saying "We have questions, and we want answers"

So are you saying that these women are conspiracy theorist? Give me a fricken break.

 

[Fooby]

Swissv2, it seems that raiden031 and Trainer seem to be very close minded and not willing to listen to what Johnny has to say. They are being very sarcastic, and thats a shame.

 

[Trainer]

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just trying to get to the heart of what they are saying.

Like I said, I'll offer up the biggest apology I can muster if he's not implying that the government killed all of these people deliberately. But he hasn't. He is giving us all of this supposed evidence... but what is it evidence of. Why won't he be up front about it?

 

[JohnnySpot]

What conclusion did you come to, and are you trying to bestow it on us?

What sides are these. Please, tell us who they are. And most importantly, which side you are on.

Exactly what are you saying?

Why is it that paranoid people feel the need to evanglize their paranoia?

I'm not being sarcastic, I'm just trying to get to the heart of what they are saying.

Like I said, I'll offer up the biggest apology I can muster if he's not implying that the government killed all of these people deliberately. But he hasn't. He is giving us all of this supposed evidence... but what is it evidence of. Why won't he be up front about it?

I am a bit upset that you have attacked my willingness to consider ALL the information (in my review of 911myths.org), not just one side reports.

I feel that any claim, whether it is made by one party or another, must be at the least substantiated by evidence - not conformity to the views expressed by one party only.

If you suggest I summarize what I have watched for you, instead of you watching the video I provided it will, as Swissv2 mentioned, take a bit of resource gathering from news media to provide empirical evidence for you to click directly on so you can see these news feeds from CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX, MSNBC and other news media for yourself.

It is one thing to say something; it is another thing to back it up. I have also looked at the evidence you have given others in other threads, Trainer and will review them also. I know plenty of civil engineers that would gladly help me determine and validate the findings of these scientists who have debunked 911 theories.

If what the scientists that you have presented are telling the truth, their scientific study will hold.

 

[raiden031]

Swissv2, it seems that raiden031 and Trainer seem to be very close minded and not willing to listen to what Johnny has to say. They are being very sarcastic, and thats a shame.

I'm not being sarcastic. So JohnnySpot wants to tell us that the US government allowed the attacks to occur on purpose. I happen to believe that the US military was not prepared for such an attack. They may have known that it could happen from intelligence reports, but they didn't act on it and make a response plan within a reasonable amount of time. This doesn't surprise me one bit considering all the beaucracy involved in the government. I guess Fema purposely messed up Katrina because they hate blacks right?

Why can't we just admit that the government is bumbling, inefficient and is just not prepared? Why is everything such an elaborate conspiracy and the government always knows what they're doing? You people have been watching too many movies. Do you know that DoD still uses equipment from world war II for some of their systems?

 

[JohnnySpot]

...I happen to believe that the US military was not prepared for such an attack. They may have known that it could happen from intelligence reports, but they didn't act on it and make a response plan within a reasonable amount of time....

Why can't we just admit that the government is bumbling, inefficient and is just not prepared? Why is everything such an elaborate conspiracy and the government always knows what they're doing? You people have been watching too many movies...

Your comments that "the US military was not prepared for such an attack" and "they may have known it could happen from intelligence reports, but they didn't act on it and make a response plan within a reasonable amount of time", I find very disturbing.

If the government is "bumbling, inefficient and is just not prepared" and the consequence was over 3000 lives lost, let alone the financial damage, this may well border on criminal negligence of the protection and following of common safety protocols mandated as their duty and responsibility for the American citizens.

What we must answer is why they failed on 911 and what caused them to fail.

 

[kevhen]

I just watched the video. There are a lot of things that don't make sense and have never been fully explained. It appears that officials were aware of an impending attack back in July of 2001 during the G8 conference and also when anti-air missiles were stationed near the home Bush was staying at in August of that year. Then when 9/11 happened, those same officials say that they were unaware of any terrorist threats. Good stuff, I hope the full truth comes out some day.

 

[FitzRoy]

Trainer: Allow me a question, if you will. Actually, several of them.

You're telling the OP to cut to the chase and jump to the conclusion. But if he did this, then would you not immediately begin saying that he has presented no evidence? That seems to be what you've said in response to stormholloway. You've said previously that the evidence is lacking. Now a poster begins putting forth what he (at least I assume it's a he) believes to be relevant information and questions, and you immediately attack a conclusion that has not yet been stated. Which way would you prefer the topic to be handled - or would you prefer it not to be handled at all?

If you have a problem with the statements that have been made in this thread so far, then it would seem logical that you should respond to those statements in kind. If, on the other hand, your problem is with their perceived conclusion - then perhaps you should wait until it has been made before you address it?

I for one find this thread to be interesting, at least so far, and do not think that an overall conclusion should be established first as a necessity. Rather, it appears to me that the poster has chosen to put forth a question, and then supply information relating to the question. I vaguely recall a few knowledge-lovers in past eras who were strong exponents of that very method.

 

[10sfreak]

To Trainer and Raiden: Give it up! You'll NEVER convince some of these nutjobs that GWB, in the White House for all of 10 months, was not able to pull off such a huge conspiracy as murdering 3000+ civilians, using civilian airliners, and making it so that our military couldn't respond to the attack in time. In fact, GWB and Carl Rove had been planning this attack ever since GHWB (Bush 41) faked the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in August '90, prompting an American response. Why do you think Bush Sr. left Saddam in power? Because, 1. He KNEW Iraq had not really invaded Kuwait, that it was really American forces that were plundering that country, 2. He and his son, GWB, were ALREADY plotting to steal the 2000 election, then use our own military to attack a couple of our own cities, which would then allow GWB to invade Afghanistan and later, Iraq. Soon, the Emporer (GHWB) and Darth Vader (GWB), will invade Iran, Syria, Russia, China, North Korea, Japan, France, Germany, and Great Britain. Then their diabolical plan to rule the world will be complete! Of course, the democrats, led by hillary, pelosi, kerry, gore, etc., along with the help of muslims worldwide, will save the world from such a fate!! How could you not see all of this?! It's SO obvious what GWB & Co. are planning!

 

[Trainer]

I am a bit upset that you have attacked my willingness to consider ALL the information (in my review of 911myths.org), not just one side reports.

I feel that any claim, whether it is made by one party or another, must be at the least substantiated by evidence - not conformity to the views expressed by one party only.

If you suggest I summarize what I have watched for you, instead of you watching the video I provided it will, as Swissv2 mentioned, take a bit of resource gathering from news media to provide empirical evidence for you to click directly on so you can see these news feeds from CNN, ABC, CBS, FOX, MSNBC and other news media for yourself.

It is one thing to say something; it is another thing to back it up. I have also looked at the evidence you have given others in other threads, Trainer and will review them also. I know plenty of civil engineers that would gladly help me determine and validate the findings of these scientists who have debunked 911 theories.

If what the scientists that you have presented are telling the truth, their scientific study will hold.

I'd just like you to answer my questions. You mentioned two sides. I'd like you to define these sides.

Do you believe our government killed these people intentionally? Enough with the inuendo. We eithor have a government that has set out to kill thousands of us or not. The implications of this are tremendous. You're trying to lead us down this road but seem unwilling to directly say where this road leads.

 

[Phil]

I am shocked and surprised that as a new member of this board I have already been attacked for providing information that actually happened.

This is not speculation, this is not theory. These events are real events that have been documented in the press and media which are easily tracable. These events deal with real people and what they went through. These ladies are not fake, and they are certainly not 'nuts'!

I hope that fellow forum members are not in the same mindset as trainer.

Johnny, Elvis is calling you on line 1. Pick-up please.

 

[JohnnySpot]

Johnny, Elvis is calling you on line 1. Pick-up please.

March 31, 2003
Mindy Klienburg, September 11 Advocates
testified before the 911 commission. Mindy is the widow of Alan Kleinberg, 39, who worked for Cantor Fitzgerald on the 104th floor of WTC Tower One. She served as a member of the Family Steering Committee for the 9/11 Commission

resource: http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing1.htm

Mindy was one of a steering committee at the 911 commission hearings, and a subject of the video that I have presented earlier. These people still have almost 70% of their questions unanswered by the committee and the Bush administration. Why did the official US Commission ignore more than half of the hundreds of questions raised by the “Jersey girls” and other family members?

Phil, if you believe these Mindy and the steering committee to be fake, and this 911 commission to have never happened, then I would suggest you prove to us it never happened.

But if you wish to continue to make jokes about this situation, which you already clearly have - then you have disrespected those people who's lives have been taken on 911, and you disrespect those families who are seeking for answers.

 

[Phil]

March 31, 2003
Mindy Klienburg, September 11 Advocates
testified before the 911 commission. Mindy is the widow of Alan Kleinberg, 39, who worked for Cantor Fitzgerald on the 104th floor of WTC Tower One. She served as a member of the Family Steering Committee for the 9/11 Commission

resource: http://www.9-11commission.gov/hearings/hearing1.htm

Mindy was one of a steering committee at the 911 commission hearings, and a subject of the video that I have presented earlier. These people still have almost 70% of their questions unanswered by the committee and the Bush administration. Why did the official US Commission ignore more than half of the hundreds of questions raised by the “Jersey girls” and other family members?

Phil, if you believe these Mindy and the steering committee to be fake, and this 911 commission to have never happened, then I would suggest you prove to us it never happened.

But if you wish to continue to make jokes about this situation, which you already clearly have - then you have disrespected those people who's lives have been taken on 911, and you disrespect those families who are seeking for answers.

Ohhh, ahhh, the "emotional factor" (and red herring) are introduced by our latest tin hatter and non-tennis AGENDA-based member...ooh, aaah.

If you want to cry disrespect to the familes of those who died in 9/11, I suggest you look into the mirror. Asking the government for clarification and further investigations is one thing...coming up with hockey, absurd conspiracy theories as a SUBSTITUTE for any "missing" information is completely bogus and CERTAINLY does dishonor to those who died. But, then again, sitting in your basement, you aren't thinking about these things...

 

[Trainer]

Come on Johnny,

HUmor me, what's the name of this road you're leading us down?

 

[CanadianChic]

Johnny, I think you need to read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People". The only people you can point the finger at in blame here are the TERRORISTS who flew the planes- they are the ones responsible for the taking of lives. Disrespect..gimme a break!!

 

[JohnnySpot]

Ohhh, ahhh, the "emotional factor" (and red herring) are introduced by our latest tin hatter and non-tennis AGENDA-based member...ooh, aaah.

If you want to cry disrespect to the familes of those who died in 9/11, I suggest you look into the mirror. Asking the government for clarification and further investigations is one thing...coming up with hockey, absurd conspiracy theories as a SUBSTITUTE for any "missing" information is completely bogus and CERTAINLY does dishonor to those who died. But, then again, sitting in your basement, you aren't thinking about these things...

You now have demonstrated your immaturity several times. If you question this, just look at how you respond to me with insults and sarcasm.

I have taken time to review the information from both sides of the story. I haven't even delved into theory and hypothesis - but you already assume that I am a conspiracy theorist. All I have done is laid the foundation by posing a simple question, and as I said before, I am willing to consider all the information.

I have read the information of 911myths.org and have gone through the information provided by Trainer. If you feel that this information is "hockey" then please provide information supporting your claims rather than attacking me personally.

 

[JohnnySpot]

Johnny, I think you need to read the book "How to Win Friends and Influence People". The only people you can point the finger at in blame here are the TERRORISTS who flew the planes- they are the ones responsible for the taking of lives. Disrespect..gimme a break!!

If I were to insult you the very first time I meet you, have I made a good impression of myself? Yes, CanadianChic, I have read How to Win Friend & Influence People by Dale Carnegie.

The very first thing Phil has done was to voilate principle number #2 in how to win people to your way of thinking: Show respect for other people's opinions. (Page 123).

I have applied principle number #8 in honestly trying to see things from another person's point of view (page 170) by being willing to listen to your side of the story in what you feel is the truth.

I invite you to give me resources as well as your personal take (please don't just give me a link with multiple things to look at) on the events that happened.

 

[Swissv2]

Ohhh, ahhh, the "emotional factor" (and red herring) are introduced by our latest tin hatter and non-tennis AGENDA-based member...ooh, aaah.

If you want to cry disrespect to the familes of those who died in 9/11, I suggest you look into the mirror. Asking the government for clarification and further investigations is one thing...coming up with hockey, absurd conspiracy theories as a SUBSTITUTE for any "missing" information is completely bogus and CERTAINLY does dishonor to those who died. But, then again, sitting in your basement, you aren't thinking about these things...

Man Phil, why are you insulting this guy when he is actually willing to listen to your side of the story? That's kinda rude, IMO.

 

[Trainer]

Come on Johnny. Tell me about these "sides".

I know that I think that the towers fell because of a terrorist act by radical muslims

Is that my side...???

What is the other side?

 

[Phil]

Man Phil, why are you insulting this guy when he is actually willing to listen to your side of the story? That's kinda rude, IMO.

I didn't "insult" him, and why are you so concerned. Maybe you need to "butt out" of here, SwissMiss.

 

[Fooby]

Phil, I would appreciate it if you didn't attack people this way. I have seen some of your comments and as a mother of a 15 year old son and a 9 year old daughter I am appalled that your level of maturity is so low and so similar to the rude kids at my children's schools.

 

[Phil]

Phil, I would appreciate it if you didn't attack people this way. I have seen some of your comments and as a mother of a 15 year old son and a 9 year old daughter I am appalled that your level of maturity is so low and so similar to the rude kids at my children's schools.

Sorry, Mom. I'll try to do better.

 

[stormholloway]

On 9/11, CIA Was Running Simulation of a Plane Crashing into a Building
http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/cia-simulation.htm

http://www.prisonplanet.com/agency_...t_around_a_plane_crashing_into_a_building.htm

What an unbelievable coincidence. These are sourced from mainstream news, Yahoo, AP. What are the odds? Find out how many days the CIA has existed. Then take the number of days America has existed as a nation since the invention of the plane. Both happened on the same day. A drill of a plane crashing into a government building is being held on 9/11, as planes are crashing into buildings. Seems like an odd drill for the CIA to run in the first place.

NORAD had drills of jets as weapons
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

So to the guy who said they weren't prepared for such an attack: you're wrong.

***

Agency planned drill for plane crash last Sept. 11
Associated Press
August 22, 2002

WASHINGTON -- In what the government describes as a bizarre coincidence, one U.S. intelligence agency was planning an exercise last Sept. 11 in which an errant aircraft crashed into one of its buildings.

***

How many coincidences does it take for a person to feel the need to ask questions?