The video posted in this thread by JohnnySpot is not 'Loose Change'. Check it out.
Questions and Issues about 911
- Thread starter JohnnySpot
- Start date
Trainer
Rookie
Sure you can. Since reviewing "all the evidence" isn't possible, a person has to judge what evidence is significant.
From what I can tell, you are the one making the assertion here. Yet, for some strange reason you won't define it. Is it because it's when you make this assertion plain that it becomes falsifiable?
Since you have reviewed the material, please, state what your conclusion is.
I don't have any reason to review the material. Why don't you tell me what theory it supposedly supports and then it may become interesting to me? Please, dedicate one short post to this. Let me see your assertion in plain light and I'll consider the material you have submitted as supporting evidence of it. This is how science is carried out. This is peer review.
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
Ok, let me get this straight. Johnny should review all the material, and you shouldn't? So...if you were on a jury you would only listen to one side, and then tune out while the other side gives their presentation?
......riiighht.
Man, that is a gem of a statement. So I look through this post and it seems like Johnny is the only one doing work here, then you come in, post a couple of random links and go your merry way, only to come back every now and then and insult him!
And now you are asking him to do MORE work while you are sitting there? You've gotta be kidding me!
Look, if you are going to bring up some evidence which you SUPPOSDLY read - you should be responsible for getting off your butt and actually writing out some responses! Sorry, I am more convinced of Johnny's side than yours because, quite frankly, you haven't done jack squat!
Stop replying to this thread with insults, Trainer, and for once type out some responses.
Trainer
Rookie
First of all, why are you talking to me?
If I were on a jury I'd know what the charge was, I'd know what the defense was, and I'd know what the crime was.
Sarcasm from an someone that doesn't even realize they are being foolish always makes me laugh.
Johnny hasn't stated anything. Are you so dense that you can't see it. I've spelled it out as clearly as possible. Can you please show me an insult in my last post? No, because you're simply being foolish and have no idea what you're talking about. Please shut up and leave this to the adults. I'm sure Johnny can take care of himself.
The only work I'm asking is to complete his statements. He's the one referring to sceince, then he should be aware of how the scientific method works.
Einstein didn't submit all of his calculations about relativity and just make everyone guess at what it was saying. He submitted a complete theory, with evidence and the conclusion he drew from it. Then his peers could review it and attempt to falsify it. If he didn't tell them that these calculations meant that matter and energy were the same thing, then why would they care about looking at all of his work?
I couldn't care less what you're convinced of. And whatsmore, I have no idea what "Johnny's side" is. Do you?
Stop talking to me.
If I were on a jury I'd know what the charge was, I'd know what the defense was, and I'd know what the crime was.
Sarcasm from an someone that doesn't even realize they are being foolish always makes me laugh.
Johnny hasn't stated anything. Are you so dense that you can't see it. I've spelled it out as clearly as possible. Can you please show me an insult in my last post? No, because you're simply being foolish and have no idea what you're talking about. Please shut up and leave this to the adults. I'm sure Johnny can take care of himself.
The only work I'm asking is to complete his statements. He's the one referring to sceince, then he should be aware of how the scientific method works.
Einstein didn't submit all of his calculations about relativity and just make everyone guess at what it was saying. He submitted a complete theory, with evidence and the conclusion he drew from it. Then his peers could review it and attempt to falsify it. If he didn't tell them that these calculations meant that matter and energy were the same thing, then why would they care about looking at all of his work?
I couldn't care less what you're convinced of. And whatsmore, I have no idea what "Johnny's side" is. Do you?
Stop talking to me.
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JohnnySpot
New User
Thank you Swissv2, but I think Trainer is being fair here. First, I will not give a conclusion, and give facts to support that conclusion. Rather, I will give my hypothesis in one sentence:
My hypothesis is that the WTC and Building 7 fell due to explosives, not fires.
I wait patiently for your response.
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drakulie
Talk Tennis Guru
If the WTC fell due to explosives, it would take setting up explosives not only on the very bottom of the foundation, but also in key areas on several different floors above to weaken the structure. These explosives would have to be synchronized to go off at the same time. In this case, one would see explosives detonating on several different floors in the video.
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
Correct, drak. I found this video on google. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=9210704017463126290
where the guy goes over how its very possible. Vids pretty good, its not some "loose change" type of production, but a scientific presentation at UC Berkeley.
DashaandSafin
Hall of Fame
I know. I have.
And thank you Trainer, that was what I was trying to say (the whole part about reviewing the material and then presenting it), but I am not so good with words.
Condoleezza
Banned
When someone denies the holocaust in an "absolutely civil and nice" kind I still would call him a fuc.ker and despicable liar.
The same with someone who suggests that George W. Bush deliberately killed 3,000 Americans.
What is so difficult to understand there?
Condi
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
So? Bush has already deliberately killed 2872 individuals due to making our people go to war. And Bush now confirms there was no weapons of mass destruction, so we went there without cause.
http://www.icasualties.org/oif/
Whats your point, Condoleezza?
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tennisfreak
Semi-Pro
Thanks for the vid. Will definitely check it out.
What makes you think a response is warranted? Merely stating a hypothesis provides no content for discussion.
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
If you follow the running discussion of this thread, Johnny gave a bunch of evidence already. His hypothesis is a basis for that evidence.
Condoleezza
Banned
1) Where did Bush deliberately kill 2872 individuals, dumb woman?
2) And who said that those WMDs were the ONLY cause for going to war against Iraq? I still remember these heated discussions back then. Bush and Blair had numerous reasonable causes to end Saddam's reign of terror.
3) And is it Bush's fault when the U.S., the British, the French and the German intelligence services say in 2002 that most probably Saddam still has operational WMDs or is at least capable to make them operational within weeks or months?
Condi
Condoleezza
Banned
I haven't read a shred of evidence from him that hasn't been debunked again and again by experts.
Condi
stormholloway
Legend
Correction: You haven't read a shred of evidence from him.
Find me an expert who can explain molten steel being found.
tennisfreak
Semi-Pro
Are these the same "experts" who stated that the cause for the collapse of WTC7 is unknown and that their theory of fire and damage bringing down the building only had a low probablity of happening?
Whereas, they refuse to even consider the very high probability that the building was brought down by controlled demolition.
A very wise man once said... if it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck... well you know the rest. WTC7 is the biggest duck in history.
I've been following it on and off. He hasn't finished his thought yet. There's a bunch of information being posted, but nothing that I consider an analysis.
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
He posted something here.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?p=1084138#post1084138
which was a reponse to my video here
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Condoleezza
Banned
1) There is no proof whatsover that there was molten STEEL.
2) Huge fires can even melt steel, especially when they burn for 2 months.
3) The fire wasn't fed only by jet fuel. This fuel only ignited the fires.
4) Bomb explosions usually don't melt steel.
Condi
Condoleezza
Banned
You are lying again.
The NIST concluded that the fires plus the debris from WTC 1 and 2 most certainly caused WTC7 to collapse. They didn't conclude that this theory has "a low probability of happening".
There is no evidence of a controlled demolition. And no motive for it.
Condi
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
ok so reference your claims.
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
stormholloway
Legend
Don't waste your time here. Condi calls others liars, but says fire can melt steel. This is absolutely false. There are plenty of eyewitnesses who have testified to molten steel.
Thermite does absolutely melt steel, and thermate does it even more rapidly.
Thermite does absolutely melt steel, and thermate does it even more rapidly.
CanadianChic
Hall of Fame
Storm, do you happen to have any links on your molten steel theory??
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
CanadianChic, watch this (molton theory)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4026073566596731782&q=improbable+collapse
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4026073566596731782&q=improbable+collapse
CanadianChic
Hall of Fame
Thanks Swiss - 
Condoleezza
Banned
A typical technique of conspiracy idiots..
The FEMA report was a preliminary one, conducted in the months right after 9/11.
The NIST in the meantime made more thorough analyses and computer simulations and found out that the damage from WTC1/2 debris was far, far greater than experts at first had realized. And they took into consideration the unique structural design of WTC7.
But you pick the first report of course. How convenient!
Condi
CanadianChic
Hall of Fame
Condi - I have no idea what your stance here is, since I don't even read any of your posts. The reason being that everything that comes from you is an insult - try posting without (just give it a whirl) and perhaps people may be a little more receptive to what you are attempting to convey.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/daily/oct99/crash26.htm
The time line:
9:44 AM ATC’s lose radio contact with the craft
10:08 AM two in flight F-16’s are requested to fly an intercept on the Leer jet 23 minutes after the target loses radio contact and deviates from flight plan. They fail to reach visual range on the target.
11:09 AM a third military craft already in flight, attains VR on the target. 1:25 hours after the first signs of a problem with the flight and 1:01 hours after the military is requested to intercept.
REALITY:
a) 9:44 AM the Leer jet deviates from flight plan and ATC's verify loss of radio communications with the craft,
b) the Leer is flying a fixed heading varying only in altitude
c) identifying with its transponder on,
d) at all times above radar
e) three military aircraft which were already up attempted to fly the intercept
f) 10:08 AM the military is requested and the first two (F-16's) assigned but never reached VR on the target and discontinued pursuit due to fuel concerns
the request to the military to intercept the Leer jet took 24 minutes from first anomoly with the Leer jet was identified (09:44 to 10:08 AM)
From first request for assistance until any military aircraft reached VR on the Leer jet the intercept actually took 61 minutes, NOT 25, to complete (10:08 to 11:09 AM).
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
This is in response to thread
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=106988
I would truly like to put this issue to a rest. We are not experts. At the very best, we can copy+paste media links and speculate all day. We can argue back and forth in a civil manner, and perhaps use our very limited experience to help us out. We all have our theories and opinions, that’s fine: that is why our posts have been allowed for open discussion provided it stayed in the appropriate sections.
But the bottom line is we will never resolve this argument unless the scientists and experts involved in this matter have resolved the issue.
If you are SO concerned about trying to force your opinions (even me) on other people - then you have reached a point where you cannot function as a proper member of a forum, MUCH LESS a tennis forum.
But if you are so passionate about your views, take this material to your EXPERTS (professors and professionals) and discuss this somewhere else. It has gone too far.
Condoleeza, you want to continue to discuss this? Come to my forums at http://www.tennis-scheduler.com and we can continue our debate. I offer you this proposal, if ANY of your posts get deleted you are free to leave my forum.
I am out.
http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=106988
I would truly like to put this issue to a rest. We are not experts. At the very best, we can copy+paste media links and speculate all day. We can argue back and forth in a civil manner, and perhaps use our very limited experience to help us out. We all have our theories and opinions, that’s fine: that is why our posts have been allowed for open discussion provided it stayed in the appropriate sections.
But the bottom line is we will never resolve this argument unless the scientists and experts involved in this matter have resolved the issue.
If you are SO concerned about trying to force your opinions (even me) on other people - then you have reached a point where you cannot function as a proper member of a forum, MUCH LESS a tennis forum.
But if you are so passionate about your views, take this material to your EXPERTS (professors and professionals) and discuss this somewhere else. It has gone too far.
Condoleeza, you want to continue to discuss this? Come to my forums at http://www.tennis-scheduler.com and we can continue our debate. I offer you this proposal, if ANY of your posts get deleted you are free to leave my forum.
I am out.
9/11 TIMELINE: from multiple sources you can verify:
7:59: American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 767, departs late from Logan International Airport bound for Los Angeles, California. Five hijackers are aboard.
8:13: The last radio communication is made from Flight 11. What is believed to be Atta's voice says, "Nobody move. Everything will be OK. If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet." The flight path begins to stray away from the scheduled one and moves southwards.
8:14: United Airlines Flight 175, another fully-fueled Boeing 767, carrying 56 passengers and nine crew members, departs from Boston Logan airport, also bound for Los Angeles. Five hijackers are aboard.
8:19: Betty Ong, a flight attendant on Flight 11 [1] alerts American Airlines of a hijacking in progress via an airphone.
8:20: The Federal Aviation Administration's Boston Center flight controllers decide that Flight 11 has probably been hijacked. American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 with 58 passengers and six crew, departs from Washington Dulles International Airport
8:21 Flight 11's transponder signal is turned off but the plane remains on radar screens. (Prior to the 9/11 Commission's report, news organizations reported this time as 8:13 or immediately thereafter.)
8:24 Flight 11 makes a 100-degree turn to the south heading toward New York City. A radio transmission comes from Flight 11: "We have some planes. Just stay quiet, and you'll be okay. We are returning to the airport."
8:25: Boston Center flight controllers alert other flight control centers regarding Flight 11; however, NORAD is not yet alerted.
8:34: Boston Center contacts Otis Air National Guard Base at Cape Cod, through the FAA's Cape Cod facility, on the hijacking of Flight 11.
8:37: Flight 175 confirms sighting of hijacked Flight 11 to flight controllers, 10 miles (16 km) to its south.
8:37:52: Boston Center control notifies NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector), the northeast sector of NORAD, of the hijacking of Flight 11, the first notification received by the military, at any level, that American 11 had been hijacked. The controller requests military help to intercept the aircraft.
8:42: United Airlines Flight 93, a Boeing 757, takes off with 37 passengers and seven crew members from Newark International Airport, bound for San Francisco International Airport
8:42: The FAA's New York Center requests information about Flight 11 over the radio. Flight 175 responds: "Ah, we heard a suspicious transmission on our departure out of Boston, ah, with someone, ah, it sounded like someone keyed the mikes and said ah everyone stay in your seats."
8:44: Flight attendant Amy Sweeney, aboard Flight 11, reports by telephone to American Airlines Flight Services Office in Boston, "Something is wrong. We are in a rapid descent . . . we are all over the place." When asked to look out the window, she says, "We are flying low. We are flying very, very low. We are flying way too low." Seconds later she says, "Oh my God we are way too low," before the call ends.
8:46: Two F-15 fighter jets are scrambled from Otis Air Force Base in Massachusetts, intended to intercept flight 11. Because Flight 11's transponder is off, United States Air Force pilots do not know which direction to travel to meet the plane. NEADS spends the next several minutes watching their radar screens in anticipation of Flight 11 returning a radar contact.
8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes at roughly 490 mph (790 km/h or 425 knots) into the north side of the North Tower of the World Trade Center, between floors 94 and 98
8:50: NEADS is notified that a plane has struck the World Trade Center as they continue to locate the flight on radar.
8:51: A flight controller at the FAA's New York Center notices that Flight 175 had changed its transponder code twice four minutes earlier; he tries to contact the flight.
8:51 to 8:54 (approx.): Hijacking begins on Flight 77.
8:53: The F-15s at Otis Air Force Base are airborne. Still lacking an intercept vector to Flight 11 (and not aware that it has already been crashed)
8:54: Flight 77 deviates from its assigned course to Los Angeles, turning south over Ohio. Two minutes later, its transponder is turned off, dissappears from Indianapolis Center radar until 9:05AM and is initially believed to have crashed.
9:03:11: Flight 175 crashes at about 590 mph (950 km/h) into the south side of the South Tower, banked between floors 78 and 84
9:03: FAA's New York Center notifies NORAD (NEADS) of the hijacking of Flight 175.
9:04 (approximately): The FAA's Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center stops all departures from airports in its jurisdiction (New England and eastern New York State).
9:06: The FAA bans takeoffs of all flights bound to or through the airspace of New York Center from airports in that Center and the three adjacent Centers — Boston, Cleveland, and Washington. This is referred to as a First Tier groundstop and covers the Northeast from North Carolina north and as far west as eastern Michigan.
9:08: The FAA bans all takeoffs nationwide for flights going to or through New York Center airspace. ABC reports later that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the agency that runs the New York-area airports, asked the FAA for permission to close down the New York Center airspace.
9:13: The F-15 fighters from Otis Air Force base leave military airspace near Long Island, bound for Manhattan.
9:23: Flight 93 receives warning message text from United Airlines flight dispatcher: "Beware any cockpit intrusion- Two a/c [aircraft] hit World Trade Center."
9:24: The FAA notifies NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector about the suspected hijacking of Flight 77. The FAA and NORAD establish an open line to discuss Flight 77, and shortly thereafter Flight 93.
9:25: The Otis-based F-15s establish an air patrol over Manhattan.
9:26: The FAA bans takeoffs of all civilian aircraft regardless of destination — a national groundstop (the first such grounding in American history). All military bases in the United States are ordered to increase its threat conditions to Delta status.
9:28: Hijackers storm the cockpit on Flight 93 and take over the flight. The entry of the hijackers is overheard by flight controllers at Cleveland.
09:30: Fighters are scrambled from Langley AFB to fly CAP over DC.
9:33 to 9:34: Tower supervisor at Reagan National Airport tells Secret Service operations center at the White House that "an aircraft [is] coming at you and not talking with us," referring to Flight 77. The White House is about to be evacuated when the tower reports that Flight 77 has turned and is approaching Reagan International Airport.
9:34: The FAA's Command Center relays information concerning Flight 93 to FAA headquarters.
9:35: Flight 93 reverses direction over Ohio and starts flying eastwards.
9:37:46: Flight 77 crashes into the western side of the Pentagon
9:40: Video teleconference in White House Situation Room begins with the physical security of the President, the White House, and federal agencies. They are not yet aware of the Pentagon crash.
9:45: United States airspace is shut down. No civilian aircraft are allowed to take off, and all aircraft in flight are ordered to land at the nearest airport as soon as possible.
9:49: The FAA Command Center at Herndon suggests that someone at FAA headquarters should decide whether to request military assistance with Flight 93. Ultimately, the FAA makes no request before it crashes.
9:57: Passenger revolt begins on Flight 93.
9:59:04: The South Tower of the World Trade Center collapses, 55 minutes 51 seconds after the impact of Flight 175
10:02: Communicators with the Vice President in the security bunker begin receiving reports from the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft — presumably hijacked — heading toward Washington. This is Flight 93.
10:03: United Airlines Flight 93 is crashed by its hijackers southeast of Pittsburgh in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. The exact time is subject to some dispute — a report on seismographic data readings by Won-Young Kim and Gerald R. Baum puts the time of impact at 10:06:05
10:03 (approximately): The National Military Command Center learns from the White House of Flight 93's hijacking.
7:59: American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 767, departs late from Logan International Airport bound for Los Angeles, California. Five hijackers are aboard.
8:13: The last radio communication is made from Flight 11. What is believed to be Atta's voice says, "Nobody move. Everything will be OK. If you try to make any moves, you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet." The flight path begins to stray away from the scheduled one and moves southwards.
8:14: United Airlines Flight 175, another fully-fueled Boeing 767, carrying 56 passengers and nine crew members, departs from Boston Logan airport, also bound for Los Angeles. Five hijackers are aboard.
8:19: Betty Ong, a flight attendant on Flight 11 [1] alerts American Airlines of a hijacking in progress via an airphone.
8:20: The Federal Aviation Administration's Boston Center flight controllers decide that Flight 11 has probably been hijacked. American Airlines Flight 77, a Boeing 757 with 58 passengers and six crew, departs from Washington Dulles International Airport
8:21 Flight 11's transponder signal is turned off but the plane remains on radar screens. (Prior to the 9/11 Commission's report, news organizations reported this time as 8:13 or immediately thereafter.)
8:24 Flight 11 makes a 100-degree turn to the south heading toward New York City. A radio transmission comes from Flight 11: "We have some planes. Just stay quiet, and you'll be okay. We are returning to the airport."
8:25: Boston Center flight controllers alert other flight control centers regarding Flight 11; however, NORAD is not yet alerted.
8:34: Boston Center contacts Otis Air National Guard Base at Cape Cod, through the FAA's Cape Cod facility, on the hijacking of Flight 11.
8:37: Flight 175 confirms sighting of hijacked Flight 11 to flight controllers, 10 miles (16 km) to its south.
8:37:52: Boston Center control notifies NEADS (Northeast Air Defense Sector), the northeast sector of NORAD, of the hijacking of Flight 11, the first notification received by the military, at any level, that American 11 had been hijacked. The controller requests military help to intercept the aircraft.
8:42: United Airlines Flight 93, a Boeing 757, takes off with 37 passengers and seven crew members from Newark International Airport, bound for San Francisco International Airport
8:42: The FAA's New York Center requests information about Flight 11 over the radio. Flight 175 responds: "Ah, we heard a suspicious transmission on our departure out of Boston, ah, with someone, ah, it sounded like someone keyed the mikes and said ah everyone stay in your seats."
8:44: Flight attendant Amy Sweeney, aboard Flight 11, reports by telephone to American Airlines Flight Services Office in Boston, "Something is wrong. We are in a rapid descent . . . we are all over the place." When asked to look out the window, she says, "We are flying low. We are flying very, very low. We are flying way too low." Seconds later she says, "Oh my God we are way too low," before the call ends.
8:46: Two F-15 fighter jets are scrambled from Otis Air Force Base in Massachusetts, intended to intercept flight 11. Because Flight 11's transponder is off, United States Air Force pilots do not know which direction to travel to meet the plane. NEADS spends the next several minutes watching their radar screens in anticipation of Flight 11 returning a radar contact.
8:46:40: Flight 11 crashes at roughly 490 mph (790 km/h or 425 knots) into the north side of the North Tower of the World Trade Center, between floors 94 and 98
8:50: NEADS is notified that a plane has struck the World Trade Center as they continue to locate the flight on radar.
8:51: A flight controller at the FAA's New York Center notices that Flight 175 had changed its transponder code twice four minutes earlier; he tries to contact the flight.
8:51 to 8:54 (approx.): Hijacking begins on Flight 77.
8:53: The F-15s at Otis Air Force Base are airborne. Still lacking an intercept vector to Flight 11 (and not aware that it has already been crashed)
8:54: Flight 77 deviates from its assigned course to Los Angeles, turning south over Ohio. Two minutes later, its transponder is turned off, dissappears from Indianapolis Center radar until 9:05AM and is initially believed to have crashed.
9:03:11: Flight 175 crashes at about 590 mph (950 km/h) into the south side of the South Tower, banked between floors 78 and 84
9:03: FAA's New York Center notifies NORAD (NEADS) of the hijacking of Flight 175.
9:04 (approximately): The FAA's Boston Air Route Traffic Control Center stops all departures from airports in its jurisdiction (New England and eastern New York State).
9:06: The FAA bans takeoffs of all flights bound to or through the airspace of New York Center from airports in that Center and the three adjacent Centers — Boston, Cleveland, and Washington. This is referred to as a First Tier groundstop and covers the Northeast from North Carolina north and as far west as eastern Michigan.
9:08: The FAA bans all takeoffs nationwide for flights going to or through New York Center airspace. ABC reports later that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the agency that runs the New York-area airports, asked the FAA for permission to close down the New York Center airspace.
9:13: The F-15 fighters from Otis Air Force base leave military airspace near Long Island, bound for Manhattan.
9:23: Flight 93 receives warning message text from United Airlines flight dispatcher: "Beware any cockpit intrusion- Two a/c [aircraft] hit World Trade Center."
9:24: The FAA notifies NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector about the suspected hijacking of Flight 77. The FAA and NORAD establish an open line to discuss Flight 77, and shortly thereafter Flight 93.
9:25: The Otis-based F-15s establish an air patrol over Manhattan.
9:26: The FAA bans takeoffs of all civilian aircraft regardless of destination — a national groundstop (the first such grounding in American history). All military bases in the United States are ordered to increase its threat conditions to Delta status.
9:28: Hijackers storm the cockpit on Flight 93 and take over the flight. The entry of the hijackers is overheard by flight controllers at Cleveland.
09:30: Fighters are scrambled from Langley AFB to fly CAP over DC.
9:33 to 9:34: Tower supervisor at Reagan National Airport tells Secret Service operations center at the White House that "an aircraft [is] coming at you and not talking with us," referring to Flight 77. The White House is about to be evacuated when the tower reports that Flight 77 has turned and is approaching Reagan International Airport.
9:34: The FAA's Command Center relays information concerning Flight 93 to FAA headquarters.
9:35: Flight 93 reverses direction over Ohio and starts flying eastwards.
9:37:46: Flight 77 crashes into the western side of the Pentagon
9:40: Video teleconference in White House Situation Room begins with the physical security of the President, the White House, and federal agencies. They are not yet aware of the Pentagon crash.
9:45: United States airspace is shut down. No civilian aircraft are allowed to take off, and all aircraft in flight are ordered to land at the nearest airport as soon as possible.
9:49: The FAA Command Center at Herndon suggests that someone at FAA headquarters should decide whether to request military assistance with Flight 93. Ultimately, the FAA makes no request before it crashes.
9:57: Passenger revolt begins on Flight 93.
9:59:04: The South Tower of the World Trade Center collapses, 55 minutes 51 seconds after the impact of Flight 175
10:02: Communicators with the Vice President in the security bunker begin receiving reports from the Secret Service of an inbound aircraft — presumably hijacked — heading toward Washington. This is Flight 93.
10:03: United Airlines Flight 93 is crashed by its hijackers southeast of Pittsburgh in Somerset County, Pennsylvania. The exact time is subject to some dispute — a report on seismographic data readings by Won-Young Kim and Gerald R. Baum puts the time of impact at 10:06:05
10:03 (approximately): The National Military Command Center learns from the White House of Flight 93's hijacking.
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Swissv2
Hall of Fame
FiveO, thank you for posting this.
I will respond to your post in another forum.
http://www.tennis-scheduler.com/forum/
I will respond to your post in another forum.
http://www.tennis-scheduler.com/forum/
stormholloway
Legend
Notice how much time goes by after the first plane crashes and the Pentagon "plane" crashes. Still, no jets in the air to protect D.C.?
Condoleezza
Banned
Read the 9/11 report.
There was no contigency planning for a case like this.
Only 14 jets available on the whole east coast.
Confusing and unprecedented situation. Several planes missing. Transponders turned off. Faulty information. Bad communication between civil and military authorities. No shoot-down order. A very believable scenario.
Whereas you scenario - Bush government and 5,374 co-conspirators blowing up WTC 1, 2 and 7, shooting a cruise missile into the Pentagon, shooting down Flight 93 and making almost all experts support the government version of events - is hilarious.
You must be completely demented to believe crap like this.
Tell us, what do you do for a living. I'm really curious .....
Condi
Condoleezza
Banned
In initial news agency reports there was confusion about different time zones. Conspiridiots still use those faulty reports although they know they are wrong.
They are systematically lying. They are the same types who deny the Holcaust and think the moon landing was faked. Nutters of the highest order. They should be held in orange jump-suits on a caribbean island ...
Condi
Condoleezza
Banned
Heavens no.
I don't discuss with people who say Bush and 4,973 co-conspirators deliberately killed 3,000 Americans and covered everything up in the aftermath.
I only insult them.
Condi
stormholloway
Legend
NORAD had drills of jets as weapons
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm
So you're wrong. They had planned for such an attack.
Flight 11:
08:13-08:20: First anomoly of the flight to FAA determination that flight was hijacked.
08:37:52: FAA notification to NORAD of hijacking. Worst case scenario it took 24+ minutes to request military assistance, very similar to the Payne Stewart Leer Jet intercept.
08:46 two F-15's, 153 miles from NYC in MA are scrambled at about the same time 11 collides with the N. Tower of the WTC.
08:53 the F-15's are airborne with no vector to target because 11's transponder was off and had been flying below radar for some time prior to crashing. They have the ability to chase down a target heading for NYC but nothing to chase.
Flight 175:
8:37 to 8:42 AM: is fine, and actually assisting ground controllers with getting a visual on Flight 11.
8:47 to 8:51 AM: first anomolies with flight.
8:53 AM While the two F-15's are in flight they are still awaiting a vector to Flight 11. Which has already crashed.
9:03 AM 175 strikes the S. Tower before as the military still looking for 11, is first being notified of 175's probable hijacking. This notification to the military from the FAA regarding 175's hijack took just 16 minutes from the first anomolous event in its flight and just 12 minutes from the FAA's concluding it was a probable hijack. Tragically despite the quicker analysis and notification to the military came as 175 impacted the S. Tower.
09:13 AM the F-15's are assigned to fly CAP over Manhattan to defend against further attacks which never came.
09:25 AM the F-15's are on station
Flight 77:
08:54 AM first anomolies with flight as it deviates from flight plan
08:56 to 09:05 77 disappears from Indianapolis Center's radar and is presumed crashed. When it reappears on anyone's scope it is not identifying, Indianapolis is not looking for it there, and points east are unaware of it.
09:24 the information is sorted by the FAA and the military is notified 19 minutes after the craft is found not to have crashed and poses a possible threat.
09:25 the MA based F-15's are defending NYC
09:30 fighters scrambled to fly CAP over DC six minutes after threat to that region is ID'd are airborne, but again without a vector because one was not available yet.
09:32 after 77 left Indianapolis air space and entered Washington's it is picked up by Dulles AFB radar. The Langley fighters are turned and burned to defend the White House but it is too late.
09:37 77 hits the Pentagon.
Flight 93:
09:28 First signs of its hijack are observed.
09:30 defensive fighter CAPS are already being flown over NYC and DC.
09:49 FAA considers request to military regarding 93. It is not done prior to 93 crashing in PA, however CAPS had been established at the two identifiable intended targets of the attacks.
10:03 93 never reaches its hijackers intended target nor either defensive CAP, crashing in PA.
08:13-08:20: First anomoly of the flight to FAA determination that flight was hijacked.
08:37:52: FAA notification to NORAD of hijacking. Worst case scenario it took 24+ minutes to request military assistance, very similar to the Payne Stewart Leer Jet intercept.
08:46 two F-15's, 153 miles from NYC in MA are scrambled at about the same time 11 collides with the N. Tower of the WTC.
08:53 the F-15's are airborne with no vector to target because 11's transponder was off and had been flying below radar for some time prior to crashing. They have the ability to chase down a target heading for NYC but nothing to chase.
Flight 175:
8:37 to 8:42 AM: is fine, and actually assisting ground controllers with getting a visual on Flight 11.
8:47 to 8:51 AM: first anomolies with flight.
8:53 AM While the two F-15's are in flight they are still awaiting a vector to Flight 11. Which has already crashed.
9:03 AM 175 strikes the S. Tower before as the military still looking for 11, is first being notified of 175's probable hijacking. This notification to the military from the FAA regarding 175's hijack took just 16 minutes from the first anomolous event in its flight and just 12 minutes from the FAA's concluding it was a probable hijack. Tragically despite the quicker analysis and notification to the military came as 175 impacted the S. Tower.
09:13 AM the F-15's are assigned to fly CAP over Manhattan to defend against further attacks which never came.
09:25 AM the F-15's are on station
Flight 77:
08:54 AM first anomolies with flight as it deviates from flight plan
08:56 to 09:05 77 disappears from Indianapolis Center's radar and is presumed crashed. When it reappears on anyone's scope it is not identifying, Indianapolis is not looking for it there, and points east are unaware of it.
09:24 the information is sorted by the FAA and the military is notified 19 minutes after the craft is found not to have crashed and poses a possible threat.
09:25 the MA based F-15's are defending NYC
09:30 fighters scrambled to fly CAP over DC six minutes after threat to that region is ID'd are airborne, but again without a vector because one was not available yet.
09:32 after 77 left Indianapolis air space and entered Washington's it is picked up by Dulles AFB radar. The Langley fighters are turned and burned to defend the White House but it is too late.
09:37 77 hits the Pentagon.
Flight 93:
09:28 First signs of its hijack are observed.
09:30 defensive fighter CAPS are already being flown over NYC and DC.
09:49 FAA considers request to military regarding 93. It is not done prior to 93 crashing in PA, however CAPS had been established at the two identifiable intended targets of the attacks.
10:03 93 never reaches its hijackers intended target nor either defensive CAP, crashing in PA.
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JohnnySpot
New User
Swissv2, I respect your proposal for moving this topic to another forum. I will continue my 911 research inquiries in your forum, while staying with tennis related items for this forum. See you at your forum.
regards,
Jon
regards,
Jon
Condoleezza
Banned
TENNIS_IS_FUN
Professional
I think johnnyspot and Trainer are actually the same person....attention w-h-o-r-e.
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
Reference please. I won't answer here, but in my own forum. thanks
http://www.tennis-scheduler.com/forum/
http://www.tennis-scheduler.com/forum/
http://www.tennis-scheduler.com/forum/
http://www.tennis-scheduler.com/forum/
Swissv2
Hall of Fame
ok, that is about the wierdest statement I have ever heard. Johnny doesn't bounce all over the place posting his stuff. He kept it to this thread and only one other thread. Nor does he go around insulting people.
If you wanted to check the thread out, it was your choice.
Then you have some posters here that creates a million threads all over the place and insults people.
I'll tell you what you do a search like I did of "9/11/2001 hijack time lines" and you'll find the Fed's report, Wikipedia and every "search for the real truth" organization some seem so enamored with here. Then come back here and dispute something in particular.
My post #140 was my own synopsis of many of those sites which seem very much in agreement with the time line.
If you want to have a civil debate regarding this issue, or, if you wish to dispute any point on the on the time line, please do it here. If these thread(s) haven't offended the mods yet, I doubt anything you or I wish to discuss will.
Right now your's and the OP's failure to respond here, give the appearance of a sidestep.
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Swissv2
Hall of Fame
Tell you what, lets have majority vote because we are sharing this forum with thousands of other people. If I am trying to "sidestep" the issue, I would refuse to talk about it, which is far from the truth.
Here is the post that I made http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=107037
TENNIS_IS_FUN
Professional
Trainer
Rookie
OK, I see you have refrained from laying blame on any particular group. Nor have you provided any source of these explosives. So, your hypothesis is really weak at best. Along with this, I would be interested to hear who you think is capable of this huge conspiracy.
Please look at the image below.
Do you agree that in this image, the building has buckled at a single point that has failed and thus cannot support the above structure? And that the structure below appears to be fully intact. That the only point of failure is in fact at the very location of where the plane impacted the building.
The implications of this are many. And for your hypothesis to hold, then these things are true.
1. Explosives were all positioned around the floors in which the plane impacted.
2. The location of the impact and the plane had to be pre-arranged by the pilot and the people who positioned the explosives.
3. The pilot had to hit this location quite accurately in order for the ruse to look real.
4. Whatever triggering method was used to detonate these explosives would have to have been able to withstand the impact of the airliner.
Do you agree with this?
Condoleezza
Banned
That as.shole insults George W. Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld, Powell and about 4,972 government employees when he calls them cold-blooded murderers and traitors. And he insults millions of Americans who voted for Bush in 2004. And he mocks the victims of 9/11.
If that's not an assh.ole I don't know what ...
Condi
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